Andersonville with reading schedule, summer/fall 2014 Chunky Read

[Irene]

I was interested to see the "good guys" beginning to organize. I wonder what allows some people to be able to assume leadership in such a chaotic situation. I understand the power of brute force and intimidation. I find that other quality of leadership more elusive.

[Stacie]

Those photos are quite something! Seems like an interesting site, I'd be very interested to visit if I'm ever in the area again. Agree Meg, about the Laurel situation - there are enough horrors in this book I could have done without that on top of everything else. Irene, I also find it fascinating how societies with hierarchies and clearly delineated alliances form out of chaos. I was surprised though that Wirz agreed to help arm the "good guys" so easily.

[Meg]

I think Wirz just saw another way for them to kill each other off.

I think personalities merge. Some just view things as hopeless and just go along. Some figure out ways to survive, just like in society now.

Interesting the psychology here.

[Meg]

The hangings were brutal and very hard to read this week. I think it is making it more brutal reading this and the news with the beheadings by ISIL.

[Irene]

I have started to read ahead simply because I want out of this horrible place. I am at the point that I am dreading the little reading time I am getting. I could do with a bit less gore. And, the amount of poetic descriptive passages is beginning to drag. I don't care if it is in the litany of memories bya prisoner or the decaying bodies or whatever, I am starting to want to skim through them. The writing is obviously excellent, but the setting is horrid and we never spend enough time with any character to become attached.

[Meg]

I am sorry to say that I agree with you. Perhaps the book would have been easier in a more condensed version.

[Irene]

This book would have been easier if it had been tempered with sections of less brutal, ugly sceens. I think I needed to know some of the kinder people a bit more, needed some sense of humanity and hope.

[Meg]

I don't understand how they compared this to Gone With the Wind

[Irene]

I have seen it described as the definitive civil war novel. Does that mean that we can understand the essence of this time in US history by viewing the brutality, the hatred, the chaos of Andrsonville?

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

Meg wrote: "I am sorry to say that I agree with you. Perhaps the book would have been easier in a more condensed version."

I'm having to agree also. The repeated horror is just becoming too much. I am wanting to start skimming too. It seems like the author keeps bringing in new characters, only to have them experience some new horror and then die.

I don't know that I would define this as a definitive Civil War novel. I think there was much more to the Civil War than just the horrors of this prison.

[Stacie]

I'm feeling the same way. For the awfulness that the book is describing, I would expect to feel it like a punch in the gut, but no, it's getting to the point where my brain is just glossing over everything. I was engaged at the beginning of the book, but now there's just SO much of it all, it's become meaningless. Very one-dimensional. I too don't understand the comparison to GWTW. (I know it has its flaws and critics, but I love GWTW and to me it shows so many more aspects of the war and society.) I think I would get more out of this if there was more character development, someone I could feel attached to.

[Irene]

There are very large sections which have felt more like a free verse poem rather than a novel. I was left with impressions, with the sense of a picture being painted in words, but with no narrative story line unfolding.

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I am really getting annoyed also with the author not using quotations to signify when someone is speaking. Sometimes I don't know if we are just hearing the story, or a new character is talking.

[Meg]

Well this goes back to my original question, is this book more of a "male" book and GWTW more of a "female" book?

What we like about GWTW is the story line, perhaps the love interests, and the domination of a strong, female character.

And, secondly, were books more factual and in fashion at the time it was written?

[Irene]

I have never been a fan of GWTW. I always thought it was overly romantic in its portrayal of the period. So, I don't know about the idea that there are "male" and "female" books.

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I wasn't a big fan of GWTW either, mainly because I was irritated with Scarlet and her reactions and behavior. But I enjoyed the writing, and the writing style, of GWTW much better than this book. GWTW flowed, it had a story, set characters, etc. GWTW also didn't seem like a "realistic" portrayal of the Civil War. It was too romanticized for me.

This book seems to be all over the place. New characters come in and then disappear in one chapter. We are only seeing bits and pieces of the lives of the characters that are reoccurring. This book seems to be trying to beat us over the head repeatedly with the brutality and horror of this prison.

I would prefer a happy medium. My favorite Civil War books were the North and South series by John Jakes. They were made into mini-series staring Patrick Swayze back in the late 1980's or early 1990's. North and South, Love and War, Heaven and Hell.

[Meg]

Well my favorite civil war book was Cold Mountain.

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I've never read Cold Mountain, but I should! I LOVE the movie! :-)

[Irene]

Have not read Cold Mountain nor seen the movie.

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

Is the book similar to the movie, Meg? Oftentimes books are better than the movies. Does anyone else have any favorite Civil War novel?

I'm still plugging along with this one, but it is SO depressing. I'm almost done with this week's section, and it still seems to be just more kinds of degradation, horror, and death.

[Meg]

Well I think the reason we don't get to know the prisoners well and for a period of time is because that puts more emphasis on what life was like there. The survival rate was minimal, and the "lucky" ones died quickly

[Meg]

I was also saddened by the part where the townspeople brought clothing and food for the prisoners and were turned away.

Do you think that you are a sympathizer if you try to help the prisoners stay warm and fed?

What would you do if there was a prison camp for the ISIS near your home and found out they were starving? Would you want to help or be glad that they were dying?

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I thought that part was also very sad, Meg. And no, I don't think showing basic human compassion to the "enemy" makes you a sympathizer. Everyone deserves to have food, water, shelter, and basic care, even enemies, even prisoner, and yes, even ISIS terrorists who might have been captured by the USA.

[Irene]

Meg, that is an excellent question. I immediately thought of Gitmo prisoners kept in open air cage-like cells with no hope of a trial, no prospect of release. When bleeding-heart librals like me have voiced objections in various social settings, I have been accused of being either unpatriotic or naive. Yet, I can understand the anger. The soldiers knew that their comrads were being housed in horrific conditions in Northern camps. They saw their friends and squad mates slaughtered. And, the awful rumers of the brutality of Northern soldiers pperpetrated on civilians. Of course, those were not true, well not totally. As we see Ira in Atlanta, we do know of unnecessary cruelty of the North on Southern civilians.

[Meg]

Well as hard as this book is to read it is very forward thinking, and you question how much things have changed or not.

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I'm really liking this last reading section of the book. I read the chapter last night with Coral and the Union soldier. Has anyone else got that far?

[Irene]

I finished the book. Yes, I was glad to see the book end with a bit less gore and despair. But, I am glad to be finished with it.

[Meg]

I did like the last reading but I am also glad the book is over.

I think it is great that we stuck it out, it was a very difficult read.

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I finished last night, and I agree, this was a difficult read.

So what is the purpose of this book? To show us the brutality of war? The brutality of people? But that in the end even those on opposite sides can put down their weapons and realize the other is just a hurting human too?

[Irene]

I think this book invited us into the 7th circle of hell in American history. The brutality was not North against South, but person against person. Everyone suffered tramendously. The North may have claimed the title of victor in the history books, but it was mutually assured destruction. And, it was not the destruction perpetrated by opposing sides, but the destruction of person against person in a terrible game of survival. No one seemed to know why they were fighting. They signed up for so many diverse reasons. In the end, all were broken, starving, cowering in a metaphoric shit house. Yet, when the very bottom was reached, the country discovered that, no matter what color the uniform, the person cowering beside you was a broken brother. Unfortunately, we could learn to look beyond uniform color, but not beyond skin color. Rather than simply die, to continue to stomp each other into oblivion, we learned to work together to rise from our own ashes. I think that was the point of the book.

[Meg]

These were tough questions and made me think!

I think the book was to show many aspects of human psyche. First showing how the Civil War was different from American fought wars in that this war was called the war between brother vs. brother. That being said, prisoners developed their own war in prisoner vs. prisoner to fight for survival and what people do to try to survive.

It showed the casualty of war in a different aspect, and maybe trying to teach society how to study the affects of war not just what we study in school in learning about dates and acquisition of those who were victorious.

Maybe it was a warning to ezamine ways to settle differences without declaring war. Is it possible? Is it worth the aftermath?

It also examined the way prisoners are treated and the need to establish treaties in doing so (?Geneva Convention)