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Ep. 104: Discussing Books
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Thomas
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Jul 15, 2014 08:51AM
It took us a while to get to it, but Simon and I did eventually chat about what it takes to discuss a book properly. What are your experiences trying to have meaningful discussions about books? Do words escape you? Do you have trouble finding people who care? Does your book group frustrate you?
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Hi, guys. I wanted to weigh in on your "Room 101" aversion to sticky labels on book covers. I strongly recommend spreading a small amount of cigarette-lighter fluid around the edges of a pesky label and letting it sit for half an hour until the glue softens. It won't damage the paper and any smell dissipates once it dries completely. You may need to add a bit more as you very slowly remove the sticker.I wouldn't try this for the first time on something of great value, but test it on a car boot sale Agatha Raisin paperback and you'll find that it truly works.
Simon - I listened to the podcast today and based on your description went out and bought Through the Woods - thanks so much for the recommendation! I can't wait to get into it - I've read the introduction and I was hooked!
I loved how you guys said you weren't good at talking about books, then proceeded to talk fabulously about books. Of particular note was Thomas pulling a very detailed scene, including an exact phrase - out of his, er, memory, when Simon was talking about A Month in the Country. Thomas - (another episode, but mentioned in this one) I want to send you the high school paper I wrote on Heart of Darkness. It was on irony and I got an A and it's one of the few books / papers I remember from that time. I don't think it was the book, but the teacher, who was amazing and made all the difference.
Anyway, I loved this episode and was talking / shouting at you guys in my car while listening. Did you hear me?
I, too, feel inadequate in my ability to talk about books and feel I often don't pick up on subtleties of symbolism, metaphor, etc. I don't feel I have the 'MFA' vocabulary to correctly describe prose, motif, themes, language, various structural devices, etc. But, the worst part for me? I always forget the endings! Crazy, right? As you both noted, the ending of a book can really be the crux, but so often, I'll remember really enjoying a book - the tone, the language, the world or atmosphere, the general plot, but I can't remember how it ended, even if the ending was pretty important.
Just recently I thought I'd start a book journal that only dealt with the endings of the books I've read so I could go back and refresh my memory.
Taking notes is indeed incredibly helpful for creating a more meaningful and lasting understanding or impression of a book, but I agree with Thomas, it can be a lot of work.
Great show!
Sue, I must admit, I remembered the line from A Month in the Country but I quickly looked up the exact phrase in a review I wrote of it on my blog around 2011.
Sue, I wish we could have heard you yelling in your car. The whole reason I started blogging about books was so that I could remember what I read. I don't worry about forgetting endings, which I often do, because then some future reread will still offer surprises.
Kathy, if there is any sort of sheen on the cover at all I can usually get the stickers off. The kind of dust jackets I have problem with are the ones that are as porous as a piece of paper. How would your trick work on paper?
Re: Pennsylvania books... I'm from Pittsburgh and have a shelf on Goodreads devoted to books about/set in the city, so I looked at my highly rated ones to try to recommend something from the western part of the state. It's possible my devotion to the city clouds my judgment, but these are my 5-star rated books:Out of This Furnace is the quintessential Pittsburgh multi-generational working class immigrant experience novel. I haven't read it since high school, so I can't speak for the prose, but it's stuck with me.
The Valley Of Decision is a sprawling family novel focusing more on the upper-class side of things. I read this one recently, and it was a little over the top but I still loved it.
Fences (or almost anything by August Wilson) is a lovely play set in an African-American community in Pittsburgh, and is fantastic. Better seen than read, but worth reading.
I can't think of anything set in Philadelphia or the space between the two cities, but that's my two cents.
Other Pennsylvania books, the Homewood Trilogy by John Edgar Wideman. I read one of these in a course in college and then proceeded to read the other two. The narrative can be challenging, but the prose is so powerful.Sent for You Yesterday
I am not part of a F2F book group, only here on goodreads. My experience has not been positive in F2F book groups. The only time I had good healthy discussion and debate is when I was part of a book group at the school where I taught for twelve years. It was made up of fellow teachers and we always had interesting discussion of the books chosen. But I feel many times people cop out with just a simple, "It was ok." Or, like with Simon, the person can't pinpoint why they don't like a certain book. I need to know the details that lead to the opinion. Another great episode!
Thomas wrote: "The kind of dust jackets I have problem with are the ones that are as porous as a piece of paper. How would your trick work on paper?"As far as I know it works well no matter how porous or non-porous the surface. It might do some harm if the cover were made from pure plastic, like some computer manuals, but it should be safe with ordinary paper. Just smooth some of the fluid onto the label, especially around the edges, let it sit until the liquid evaporates, then slowly lift or peel away the label. (Obviously, do this outside or with a ventilator fan running and away from open flames.)
I found a guide to the process, with step-by-step photos, at Instructables.com.
Some more ideas for Pennsylvania novels: Michael Chabon's Wonder Boys, Christopher Morley's Kitty Foyle, Agnes Sligh Turnbull's The Day Must Dawn, Judith Redline Coopey's Waterproof: A Novel of the Johnstown Flood, and most of the works of John Updike and John O'Hara. You'll find a clickable state map with author and book recommendations at Penn State University's Pennsylvania Center for the Book website.
I looked up the sticker problem. One suggestion is to blow dry the sticker to loosen a corner and then it peels right off.
Kathy wrote: "Some more ideas for Pennsylvania novels: Michael Chabon's Wonder Boys, Christopher Morley's Kitty Foyle, Agnes Sligh Turnbull's The Day Must Dawn, Judith Redline Coopey's Waterproof: A Novel of the..."I love that link! And how could I forget Chabon - he's got more than one set in PA :)
So I was thinking of Simon the other day. . . was reading Claire Tomalin's biography of Dickens, the part where he goes to America with all these visions of how wonderful we all are and how great the country is. By the end he thinks Americans are dirty, stupid, have bad table manners, etc. It made me think. . . oh no! What if Simon has the same experience! And after visiting he thinks we are all awful. . . ;)
He is staying with me for five days, so if that is his impression of us in the US, then we have a problem.
ha! that could be a problem. . . well, the other thing Dickens hated apparently was being pursued by throngs of admirers constantly asking to shake his hand and get his autograph. . . so I also imagined a great throng of Readers' podcast fans chasing Simon down various streets and clamoring for him, and he slowly becomes exhausted and overwhelmed by all the attention ;)
Suggestion for next episode: maybe discuss the Man Booker longlist since it's being announced on Wednesday - whether you've read one of them, thoughts on the authors and diversity, any early predictions, what you think of writing prizes in general perhaps.
I haven't listened to this podcast yet, so the answer might be there, but what is an F2F book??
Clara, I think it means face to face book club, as opposed to online.
F2F book groups - don't get me started. Oh, too late. I left mine years ago, and have since discovered, through friends and with amusement, that the same group of characters are found in them all (maybe not all, but you get my drift). The person who hasn't finished the book and either runs dramatically out of the room every time someone dares to mention a spoiler, or else claps her hands over her ears and 'la-la-la's' loudly. The loveable rogue who hasn't read the book. The book snob who won't read anything but classics and sneers when a light-hearted novel is suggested. The non-fiction reader. The time hogger, who hurries everyone else along so she can read her favourite passages from her copy, which one notices with a sinking feeling is bristling with post-it notes. Oh, and the tetchy one who hates having to waste reading time on someone else's choice and drops out of the club after noting everyone else's annoying habits. Yeah, that'll be me.I love, love, love your bantering podcast, guys. Better than any F2F nonsense IMHO.
Serenknitity wrote: "F2F book groups - don't get me started. Oh, too late. I left mine years ago, and have since discovered, through friends and with amusement, that the same group of characters are found in them all..."Sounds like the script for a great sitcom!
I'm trying to figure out which one of Serenikitty's characters is Simon. The non fiction reader made me chuckle the most. I'm the attention hog and the one who doesn't want to read anyone else's choice.
Forgot to mention the pretentious one who suggested we read Madame Bovary in French and looked astounded when informed that she'd been wasting the last Thursday of the month for a year with losers who only spoke English.
I have some book club pet peeves...I'm in three god help me.-The person who NEVER finishes the book in time.
-The person who picks the book that month and then doesn't show up for the meeting.
-The person who pretends to have read the book but just watched the movie adaption.
-The person who wont let anyone else talk the whole meeting.
End of rant, thank you.
And, what about the person who can't read anything sad (sniff-sniff), or depressing or violent. "Oh, how can you all (yes, Southern) read that awful stuff?"
I think my book group is the best, it doesn't matter whether you've read the book or not because the group is a really good cover for meeting in the pub on a Sunday!We do tend to end up discussing the book though, but we've found that it helps to stick to shorter books or, with the longer books, to only discuss/read up to a certain point. Sometimes life happens and you run out of time for book group books!
I knew there were some good bookgroups out there, Kat!
And Sandra and Clara - yes I think I've come across those types, too (I didn't want to read anything too tragic or to do with a child dying, or violent. *hangs head in shame*
I enjoyed a wry smile when I heard Simon talk about people at book clubs who just say 'I enjoyed it' or I didn't like it but never explain WHY. My frustration is with people who select the book for the month but then never lead the discussion - they don't come prepared with any questions to get us going or to keep the conversation flowing. Maybe that would be a good topic for another show - should you prepare for discussions; if so how?
Just found out about the podcast/GoodReads group, so thought I'd jump in here. As a member of a F2F group for 20+ years, I think it's turned more into a social occasion than book discussion group. Kids and pets often get more airtime than the book we're reading. A minor pet peeve - people who pick books that just happen to be on their shelves, without regard to whether it's even in print anymore.
The Readers
Books mentioned in this topic
Sent for You Yesterday (other topics)Out of This Furnace (other topics)
The Valley Of Decision (other topics)
Fences (other topics)
