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Rocio wrote: "Hello, everybody. I just need to let this out. About a month ago I was invited to be part of a webinar to talk about my book and give tips to aspiring writers. I accepted and sent the necessary inf..."I'm thinking that's par for the course these days, on so many counts. First, many people today don't have a clue regarding social manners! End of story. I think many are simply born in a cave and never make it beyond that point.
Second, Indies aren't treated with much respect in many, if not most, venues. Might as well learn that from the get-go. The number of people (other than ourselves) who treat us with respect are few and far between. My local bookstores won't give me the time of day, and, in fact, have been downright rude despite the fact one of my books is used in the local high school's curriculum and I guest lecture there on the subject of mystery writing. It's a fact of life, so my suggestion is simply to be mindful of this, chose your options carefully (especially if they involve an outlay of money), and enjoy your endeavors for the joy they bring YOU!
Thank you, Theodore. I will keep that in mind.
Theodore wrote: "Rocio wrote: "Hello, everybody. I just need to let this out. About a month ago I was invited to be part of a webinar to talk about my book and give tips to aspiring writers. I accepted and sent the..."By the way, and on the subject of Revenge is a Dish Best Served Cold, just the other day I received a newsletter from my high school's foundation. Now, I loved my old high school...past tense. I only spent 3.5 years there, preferring to get in and get out as soon as possible, but those were some of the best years of my life and those teachers--I can remember every single one of them by name--were, next to my family, the most important people in my life. They gave me the foundation I needed to go on to the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
That said, some years ago I wrote a YA novel (under a pen name; this is the book that's in the local HS's curriculum) in which, among other things, all of the teachers' names, for some odd reason, were the same as my teachers back in the 1950s. As well, the story contained a lot of information about my home town. Just the kind of story, I thought, that would be of interest to my high school's librarian and to the school's foundation. So, I wrote both, twice, offering a generous supply of autographed copies.
Not a word. Not a peep. Nothing. Zilch. Zip. Nada. No one even bothered to hit "Reply" and say "Screw you and the horse you rode in on," which, at least, would have been a response.
Now, mind you, in the late 1990s, I had contributed generously to this foundation, giving annual contributions in the four-figure range. So, the head of the foundation certainly was not unfamiliar with me. Still, she never gave me the courtesy of a response. Not once.
So, I want you to take minute (this might be difficult to answer) and tell me what I did with her most recent pleading for money (and I do mean pleading...the foundation was OUT OF MONEY...they had NOTHING for the coming year). You only get one answer.
Does this answer your question about respect?
End of quiz.
End of story.
QED (end of proof, as we scientists say)
I feel like that kinda happened to me. I helped this person do some promo that is why I was invited to the webinar. I don’t think we are friends or anything like that but I thought we had good communication to help each other. So I can relate to you story Theodore.
People can be very rude if they don’t need anything from you. Sad
Brilliant story Ted. Sock it to her. Ugh people annoy me.
Here's a question: what's the last time the phone rang and someone didn't want something? (;>)The world has its hand out these days!
Mr. Smiles (PS From my point of view, all problems are nails; my solution is a 20# sledge)
It's been interesting to read about how little respect indies get, even though something like four times as many books come out that way every year than through traditional publishing. When I've told some of my friends about the lack of respect, when they've suggested trying to get into bookstores, they shake their heads and tell me people need to get over that. Indeed. I'm sorry for your experience Rocio. I will learn from how you were treated and be cautious about what I accept or try to become part of.
I will definitely be more cautious. Thank you all for your comments.
Here's the problem re Indies and bookstores...they don't stock our books because in almost all cases, unless we're willing to lay out a ton of cash to the publisher (e.g., CreateSpace), our books are non-returnable. Even if we wrote something akin to the best sellers out there (and some indies can!), no bookstore is going to lay in a supply of these books knowing they will be unable to return any copies that cannot be sold. It simply doesn't make good business sense. Now, you may be able to convince a local bookseller to give you a little space on one of his or her tables, but at what price? Say, you put out a stack of 10 books (which you purchased on the "come"), only to come back two weeks later and find two have been sold (your take: $2 per book over your wholesale price because the book seller took the rest of the money), two were damaged by people thumbing through them, one was stolen, and five remain on the table.
Comments welcome.
Ah Ted, in that case I’m happy to never appear in a bookshop. Unless of course I get picked up by a trad and make a fortune that way then I want to be everywhere (oh how we laughed...)
Yes, I get you Denise :)but the instructions were easy to follow. Since this person knows me already, she only asked for the name of my book, and book cover. She actually send me two emails asking me if I really wanted to participate. I said yes both times and the third time. She asked for the information.
That is why I was surprised when I did not get a rejection email or something.
And yay! I am so happy about the character interview. Thank you Denise
Rocio wrote: "Hello, everybody. I just need to let this out. About a month ago I was invited to be part of a webinar to talk about my book and give tips to aspiring writers. I accepted and sent the necessary inf..."Rocio,
It's entirely possible that what everyone else is saying is correct. However, I want to interject a note of caution here. This could be a failure of technology, to wit: your emails could have been lost in spamland and never seen. In that case, your contact might be thinking you had no interest and didn't reply to them.
I'm speaking from harrowing experience here. I have a domain name and email addresses for my little publishing company. When people email us at the company address, we reply to them from there. Also, our website sends emails to customers using that domain name. I found out earlier this year that a lot of emails were never getting to their intended recipients, including authors who queried us and customers who were having trouble buying from us. I had to use my personal gmail address to reach these people, and I don't know how many sales I lost on account of the problem.
In the same time period, I tried contacting the president of my local Maryland Writer's Association chapter to request a slot to read some of my work at an upcoming meeting. He sent three emails offering slots, I sent him two or three replies, and I neither heard from him nor was given time to read. At the meeting I asked if he had received my emails and he said that he hadn't.
This happens because email services such as GMail, Yahoo, etc., are in a constantly war with spammers. On behalf of their customers, they try to filter out spam, but just like in an arms race the "weapons" used on both sides are constantly evolving, so it's an ever-changing game, and unfortunately there is no perfect way to identify spam. A lot of legitimate emails get caught in spam filters, shunted to spam folders, and never seen because people just don't examine their spam folders very often. Even I don't sometimes, and I know about all this stuff.
I'm currently on a campaign to get people to whitelist my domain names, which should help keep our emails out of spam folders. But there is just no way to prevent it entirely.
Again, this may not have happened in your case, but I wouldn't be too hasty to slap the "rude" sign on anyone simply because they failed to respond to a couple of emails. It could well be they never saw the emails in the first place. If you have more than one email account, you might try contacting them from a different email address and asking if they had received your previous emails. If they say they didn't--bingo. Ask them to whitelist your preferred email address and tell them you're sending them an email from there so they can look for it and check spam if they don't see it come in.
Theodore wrote: "Here's the problem re Indies and bookstores...they don't stock our books because in almost all cases, unless we're willing to lay out a ton of cash to the publisher (e.g., CreateSpace), our books a..."Ted,
You know this, of course, but the current system of returns came about in the WWII era as a way to make it possible for bookstores to stock books without taking on too much risk. It's a system that a lot of people in the industry think doesn't make much sense anymore, but the stores don't want to relent. Better would be for stores to only buy a small number of copies at a time--unless they know they have a bestseller on their hands--so they don't take on too much risk to begin with and don't have to worry about returning anything. But that's not going to happen anytime soon. So we just have to get over that.
Here's a story for you. Because I run a small traditional publishing company, we order print runs in quantity (small quantity, but not print-on-demand). We offer the usual 40% discount to retailers and accept returns. So I arranged for a book signing at the B&N in Howard County to promote my Howard County Mysteries. Seemed like a good idea. B&N checks to make sure they can order the books through the publisher and can return them, then they say great, come on down.
BUT . . . I can't bring the books myself. I'm the publisher as well as the author, yes, but the store is required to order through their system. So the do that, and I get an order for 50 copies, which is everything I happen to have on hand at that time. I ship them to to the store (which I could drive to, but no, I have to ship them). They pay for shipping, at least. Then on the appointed day, I do the event, sell something like 5 books, and then have to wait for them to return the books to their distribution facility in New Jersey and from there for them to be sent back to me in Maryland, half an hour's drive from the store. Of course something got crossed up, so I had to spend time on the phone tracking down the books. We did get them back eventually.
Now here's the thing. I talked to the store manager after the event and she said that selling 5 books is pretty good. She said that even some reasonably well-known authors come in there and don't sell more than 5 or 10 copies. They did take 10 autographed copies to keep on the shelf for a short time, but I don't think those sold, either, and were returned. So here's the logical question: Why in the name of heaven did they order 50 copies from me?? Because they can. Because that way they'll be sure to have enough, just in case I happen to blow away all expectations. Because they are returnable and there is no risk to them in ordering five or ten times as many as they likely need.
That is the book store business. We can complain about it or work with it. I work with it in a few select cases, but I have no delusions about ever getting significant shelf space for my books. I don't sell enough books to warrant that. And those authors who use print-on-demand and can't offer that 40% discount and can't accept returns and can't wait 90 days or so for payment . . . forget it. You're not playing by their rules, therefore you don't get to play.
That's why I don't sell print books through Amazon. I'm a trad publisher. I don't use their tools to create and sell books. I upload completed ebooks and sell them, but as a publisher here's what I have to do to sell print books through them. I have to give them a non-negotiable 55% discount (not 40%, which B&N and most other stores will accept). I have to pay for shipping. (B&N lets me say who pays for shipping, and since I'm small and they're big, I say it's them.) If they return books for any reason whatsoever, I have to pay that shipping, too. Oh yes, and there is an annual fee for the "privilege" of entering into this relationship with Amazon.
Forget it. I can't afford to play by their rules, and since they're an 800 pound gorilla, they figure they don't have to negotiate with the likes of me. It took Hachette to stand up to them. I wouldn't have a chance. Maybe someday if I'm selling print books in sufficient quantity, I'll figure it's worth it. But not today.
Thank you, everybody for your comments, they’re very helpful.
Dale wrote: "Theodore wrote: "Here's the problem re Indies and bookstores...they don't stock our books because in almost all cases, unless we're willing to lay out a ton of cash to the publisher (e.g., CreateSp..."Very interesting, Dale. I admire your grit and perseverance. B&N wouldn't even return my phone calls and e-mails. In a word (or two): screw 'em.
Rocio wrote: "Hello, everybody. I just need to let this out. About a month ago I was invited to be part of a webinar to talk about my book and give tips to aspiring writers. I accepted and sent the necessary inf..."maybe it was an oversight on their part. You could write them..
Rocio wrote: "I feel like that kinda happened to me. I helped this person do some promo that is why I was invited to the webinar. I don’t think we are friends or anything like that but I thought we had good comm..."Rocio, I think that you need to give people the benefit of the doubt. I would write to them and remind them that you sent the info
Judy, I thought about that, I just didn’t know if it was a good idea.
Theodore wrote: "Very interesting, Dale. I admire your grit and perseverance. B&N wouldn't even return my phone calls and e-mails."I haven't had 100% success, either. I initially made phone calls and asked the name of the store's events coordinator, then asked to be put in touch with them. I could usually get through to the right person that way, although it sometimes took two or three calls. Emails were a bit different. Some stores responded, some didn't. Ultimately I only got into the one store, although the manager there told me they all talked to each other, so an author who had a good event at one store might get asked to do events at other stores. I can't say I'm surprised that the other stores didn't follow up with me, but I didn't follow up with them, either, after I realized that all of my books were going to be in transit for a month or more!
It can be frustrating, but look at it this way: the author generally needs the store far more than the store needs the author. An author event can be mutually beneficial, but unless you can bring a lot of people into the store, you aren't helping them all that much. And as for getting your book on the shelves, unless you can get a lot of customers to come in to buy it (and maybe buy other things, too), why would they devote limited and valuable shelf space to your books? It's simple economics. They aren't stocking books out of the goodness of their hearts. They have to sell products, and unless you can give them good reasons to think you'll make money for them, weeeeellllll . . .
I think you are right, though, that if a store just doesn't show any interest to you, it's best to forget them and move on to something else. Getting tied in emotional knots over it doesn't do anyone any good. It's just business. But I wouldn't write them off for good. It may be worth coming back every so often just to see what's changed. Staff changes, policies change, and just maybe your fame spreads enough that you can present a better case to them. I'm going to try another B&N blitz when "Ice on the Bay" is released. I think I can probably get into the Howard County store again, and if I can attract enough friends, family, and total strangers to the store, they just might be interested in having me in one or two other area stores. Can't hurt to try, right?
I got invited to a webinar which aimed to show indie authors how to 'trick' (wrong word - in a friendly way) reviewers of whatever their genre is into reading their book and reviewing it. The hiccup was that they sent the invitation out to indie reviewers.
Dale wrote: "Theodore wrote: "Very interesting, Dale. I admire your grit and perseverance. B&N wouldn't even return my phone calls and e-mails."I haven't had 100% success, either. I initially made phone calls..."
I have generally found that, in cases like this, it feels so good when you stop banding your head into the wall. (;>)
Faith wrote: "I got invited to a webinar which aimed to show indie authors how to 'trick' (wrong word - in a friendly way) reviewers of whatever their genre is into reading their book and reviewing it. The hiccu..."Wow that's awful!
That's crazy I'm so sorry that happened to you. They should've told you instead of you waiting, wondering and finding out how you did. Hopefully you'll get another opportunity in the future.
Theodore wrote: "I have generally found that, in cases like this, it feels so good when you stop banding your head into the wall. (;>)"No argument there, and certainly each of us has to decide how to pursue their writing business, what's worth it and what is not. I'm only saying that it is business. I suspect the vast majority of successful businessfolk will tell you they spent a lot of time banging their heads into walls before they got one to crumble. ;-)
Rocio wrote: "Judy, I thought about that, I just didn’t know if it was a good idea."you have absolutely nothing to lose
Judy, I did follow you advice and I got a respond, this is what she said: "I decided to go with traditionally published people for our first webinar.":(
thank you though. Now I know why.
It would have been nice to know that though. Shame. Better luck next time.
Yes, I know right. An email would have been nice.
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Erica wrote: ""they spent a lot of time banging their heads into walls before they got one to crumble". I like that Dale!"Thank you!
Rocio wrote: "Judy, I did follow you advice and I got a respond, this is what she said: "I decided to go with traditionally published people for our first webinar.":(
thank you though. Now I know why."
Ah, okay. And you also know your emails did get through okay, too.
Rocio wrote: "Judy, I did follow you advice and I got a respond, this is what she said: "I decided to go with traditionally published people for our first webinar.":(
thank you though. Now I know why."
oh, darn, foiled again, well at least as you say, you know why, and it has nothing to do with you or your book
I wasn’t even told thanks but no thanks or maybe next time. Nothing.
What do you think?