Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion
Theological Questions
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What do these Scriptures mean?
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People have wisely written books on the meaning of all those verses. Some interpretations were wrong of course. But God's Word lives on.It's all about Jesus.
Amen! It is ALL about Jesus... and the POWER of His Gospel message can bring the DEAD to LIFE!
It CAN, but there's conditions of course.That is what we need the other 30,000 verses to properly explain.
Holding up a handful of verses is often a misleading thing for any doctrinal truth. I've had Muslims throw a hundred Bible verses at me that prove Jesus and Abraham was a Muslim. Same situation with Mormons and J.w.'s.
I've even had witches and New Age Gurus use endless bible verses to prove their agenda. IT WORKS- if you only use those select verses (and properly push the rest under a rug)
The trick: is to take any one verse and see if it holds throughout ALL of scripture. Many are too lazy and stubborn to do this.
Robert why aren't you at the ZOO preaching the Gospel to every creature?And do tell us the context of 2 Peter? Who specifically is that book written to?
You can't just grab verses. Our God is very specific and meaningful.
Rod wrote: "It CAN, but there's conditions of course..."So you are saying that the Gospel alone is NOT God's power unto salvation?
You are saying that the sacrifice of Jesus is INADEQUATE to bring the DEAD to LIFE?
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Romans 1:16 - "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the POWER of God unto SALVATION to EVERY ONE that BELIEVETH; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Here is the "condition"...
Romans 10:13 - "For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Rod wrote: "Holding up a handful of verses is often a misleading thing for any doctrinal truth..."Maybe the problem is that you DON'T KNOW the Gospel?
It is clearly declared in just TWO VERSES... and Paul narrows it down to ONE verse elsewhere.
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Why do you feel the need to FORCE the Bible to say OTHER than that which it clearly states?
But doesn't it clearly state to go to the zoo and preach to all the creatures???Why are you offended by this Robert? Are you afraid to explain the deep meaning of scripture to people?
Rod wrote: "But doesn't it clearly state to go to the zoo and preach to all the creatures???Why are you offended by this Robert? Are you afraid to explain the deep meaning of scripture to people?"
Why do you believe the Gospel is IMPOTENT to bring the DEAD to LIFE?
Preach the Gospel to every creature...Romans 1:16 - "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the POWER of God unto SALVATION to EVERY ONE that BELIEVETH ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Here is the difference between those who will be saved and those who will not...
Romans 10:13 - "For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Rod wrote: " Are you afraid to explain the deep meaning of scripture to people? "My response: Of course one can get pretty deep with the Scriptures. Sadly, many claim to be "digging deep" when what they really are doing is CHANGING what God has CLEARLY stated.
Mormons, JWs, witches, even some Satanists claim to be "deep" in the Bible, all the while, they are re-writing and twisting it to say what they want it to say... rather than what it clearly says.
What it clearly says often is not clear. One verse at a time can be very misleading. Like The ALL CREATURES verse. Or any verse that uses the word ALL. Must have proper context from the verses before and after it.
You can't tie a deadman to a chair and beat him with the Gospel. God wishes us to preach and teach it properly.
Rod wrote: "What it clearly says often is not clear. One verse at a time can be very misleading..."My response: Just like the JWs, Mormons, witches (sometimes even Satanists), etc.
God CLEARLY says something... and the various cultists simply say...
God didn't mean that...
Rod wrote: "What it clearly says often is not clear. One verse at a time can be very misleading..."And NO VERSES ever is just your OPINION!
Romans 10:13 has a context:7 To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Is the Whosoever Romans? What is the context?
7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
Rod wrote: "Romans 10:13 has a context: 7 To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Is the Whosoever Romans? W..."My response: At least you quoted some Scripture. However, you neglected the FACT that this was a reference to an OT passage, which is FAR BIGGER than the Romans!
Joel 2:32 - "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."
So, Paul is applying to the Gentiles in Rome, that which Joel applied to Zion / Jerusalem.
This fits with the neither Jew nor Greek that is for God's people...
Galatians 3:28 - "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
Colossians 3:11 - "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."
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It should be interesting to see how you further make this verse say CONTRARY to what it CLEARLY says.
Exactly. If it's Bigger than Romans - we need to explain THAT.
Rod wrote: "Exactly. If it's Bigger than Romans - we need to explain THAT."No explanation needed. In Joel it applies to Israel... in Romans it applies to the Gentiles...
WHOSOEVER means WHOSOEVER...
Efforts to FORCE whosoever to NOT mean whosoever is eisegesis.
So it APPLIES to the gentiles...How interesting. That was my point.
Rod wrote: "So it APPLIES to the gentiles...How interesting. That was my point."
And it applies to Jews...
It applies to everyone! Whosoever!
Romans 1:16 - "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the POWER of God unto SALVATION to EVERY ONE that BELIEVETH; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
John 12:32 - "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO ME."
Titus 2:11 - "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,"
Romans 10:13 - "For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Rom 12:3- "...but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to EVERY MAN the measure of FAITH."
Colossians 1:20 - "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to RECONCILE ALL THINGS unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things IN EARTH, or things IN HEAVEN."
1 John 2:2 - "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and NOT FOR OURS ONLY, but ALSO for the SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD."
Romans 11:32 - "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have MERCY UPON ALL."
2 Corinthians 5:19 - "To wit, that God was in Christ, RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."
John 1:29 - "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKETH AWAY the SIN OF THE WORLD."
MarK 16:15 - "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and PREACH THE GOSPEL TO EVERY CREATURE."
1 Timothy 2:4 - "Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."