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Treatise on Prayer and Meditation
Prayer and Meditation
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1. Along the Way
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John
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Dec 01, 2017 03:27AM

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I was struck by the recommendation that we pray two hours a day--even though in theory at this stage of my life that could happen.
Another striking thought: we become what we spend most time thinking about.
It's a spiritual commonplace that one is either gaining or losing ground in the spiritual life. I feel like I've been standing still for a long time, being faithful but without "breakthroughs" in my relationship with God.
Jill wrote: "It's a spiritual commonplace that one is either gaining or losing ground in the spiritual life. I feel like I've been standing still for a long time, being faithful but without "breakthroughs" in my relationship with God. "
It may be a commonplace, but it struck me fairly forcefully. If I am either moving forward or falling back, what things in my life, even if not bad in themselves, represent a falling back, or even something that doesn't help me move forward.
It may be a commonplace, but it struck me fairly forcefully. If I am either moving forward or falling back, what things in my life, even if not bad in themselves, represent a falling back, or even something that doesn't help me move forward.
Jill wrote: "I was struck by the recommendation that we pray two hours a day--even though in theory at this stage of my life that could happen."
I don't think Alcantara was giving this advise to people who "live in the world," as they would say in the sixteenth century. The same as St. Teresa, he was writing mainly for nuns and monks or priests, or for people who had time enough for prayer, such as rich widows. In that context, two hours a day does not seem too much. Notice that he mentions "matins or after having heard or said mass" (priests say mass, nuns hear it, but few lay people would do that every day, then as now).
That does not mean that his advice is not good for everybody, but we must not take everything literally.
On the other hand, two hours prayer a day is too little if we consider that work can also be prayer (:-)
I don't think Alcantara was giving this advise to people who "live in the world," as they would say in the sixteenth century. The same as St. Teresa, he was writing mainly for nuns and monks or priests, or for people who had time enough for prayer, such as rich widows. In that context, two hours a day does not seem too much. Notice that he mentions "matins or after having heard or said mass" (priests say mass, nuns hear it, but few lay people would do that every day, then as now).
That does not mean that his advice is not good for everybody, but we must not take everything literally.
On the other hand, two hours prayer a day is too little if we consider that work can also be prayer (:-)
I am not able to carve out an entire hour in my day for prayer and meditation. But I find that starting my days with these meditations brings them back to me at quiet moments during the day, at my desk, in the car or walking through town.
Jill wrote: "I'm having trouble with his "sinners in the hands of an angry God" approach, the "river of divine indignation" bursting out. I envision God as profoundly disappointed at how we hurt ourselves..."
Yes, in our time we prefer C.S.Lewis's interpretation of hell as something we condemn ourselves to, rather than God. However, Jesus himself said this: “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'" (Matthew 25:41)
I know this can be interpreted in the other way too, but 'the river of divine indignation' was the standard interpretation in the sixteenth century. Alcantara was just following the current interpretation of his time.
Yes, in our time we prefer C.S.Lewis's interpretation of hell as something we condemn ourselves to, rather than God. However, Jesus himself said this: “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'" (Matthew 25:41)
I know this can be interpreted in the other way too, but 'the river of divine indignation' was the standard interpretation in the sixteenth century. Alcantara was just following the current interpretation of his time.
I've finished the first week (chapters 2 and 3). Tomorrow I'll start with chapter 4. I'm following John's plan.
Manuel wrote: "I've finished the first week (chapters 2 and 3). Tomorrow I'll start with chapter 4. I'm following John's plan."
As I've decided not to read Pax Anime, I intend to stretch out the remaining Chapters after Chapter 4 through to the end of the month. To try to read them thoughtfully.
As I've decided not to read Pax Anime, I intend to stretch out the remaining Chapters after Chapter 4 through to the end of the month. To try to read them thoughtfully.
John wrote: "As I've decided not to read Pax Anime, I intend to stretch out the remaining Chapters after Chapter 4 through to the end of the month. To try to read them thoughtfully."
The problem is, chapter 5-12 give ideas and instructions to use while meditating on chapters 2 and 4, so it's not a bad idea to read them at the same time.
The problem is, chapter 5-12 give ideas and instructions to use while meditating on chapters 2 and 4, so it's not a bad idea to read them at the same time.
Manuel wrote: "John wrote: "As I've decided not to read Pax Anime, I intend to stretch out the remaining Chapters after Chapter 4 through to the end of the month. To try to read them thoughtfully."
The problem i..."
Yeah, I thought about that, but then decided that perhaps St. Peter of A had a method in the way he wrote. The normal logical approach would be to put all the instructional material first, then the meditations, so perhaps he had a reason for reversing the order?
I also debated reading them side by side, but ended up deciding I could always re-do the meditations. after reading the rest of the book.
The problem i..."
Yeah, I thought about that, but then decided that perhaps St. Peter of A had a method in the way he wrote. The normal logical approach would be to put all the instructional material first, then the meditations, so perhaps he had a reason for reversing the order?
I also debated reading them side by side, but ended up deciding I could always re-do the meditations. after reading the rest of the book.
How many times have I read, or listened to the story in the gospel of the washing of the feet and, perhaps distracted by Peter's antics, never considered the incredible humility of our Lord in his washing the feet of Judas, all the while knowing that he would shortly betray him.
In the Saturday meditation for the second week (chapter 4), Alcantara says this (my translation from Spanish):
Consider, then, how having the Savior expired on the Cross, and fulfilled the desire of those cruel enemies, who so wished to see him dead, even after this the flame of his wrath was not extinguished, because even so they wanted to avenge and be cruel on those Holy Relics that remained, dividing up and casting lots on his garments and tearing his sacred breast with a cruel spear. Oh cruel ministers! O iron hearts, and so little you think the living body has suffered, that you don't want to forgive it even after death!
I think this comment is not correct. Those who wanted Christ's death were not the Roman soldiers, but the Sanhedrin, and the Jews influenced by the Sanhedrin. The Roman soldiers at the crucifixion were fulfilling a duty (probably, for them, a disagreeable duty) and what they did was not specially cruel. They divided the garments because that was the custom, dividing them among the military detachment on duty. And the spear in Christ's chest was just a way to make sure that he was already dead, rather than breaking his legs, but not a cruelty.
Incidentally, the spear in Christ's chest became a blessing for Christians, for it is a proof that Christ really died; a proof that his executors considered sufficient. This is forgotten by those who say that Christ was not really dead, so the Resurrection was just his recovery from a fainting fit. In the film "The inquiry" (2006) this scene has an important role. When Pilate and the Sanhedrin tell Tiberius's inquirer that Christ was not really dead, and he is convinced, he says: "Longinos, you have been tricked, Jesus was not dead!" And Longinos answers: "But I pushed a spear through his heart!" And the inquirer is automatically convinced that he himself has been tricked, not Longinos. By the way, there is no inkling in the film that Longinos speared Jesus because he was cruel.
Consider, then, how having the Savior expired on the Cross, and fulfilled the desire of those cruel enemies, who so wished to see him dead, even after this the flame of his wrath was not extinguished, because even so they wanted to avenge and be cruel on those Holy Relics that remained, dividing up and casting lots on his garments and tearing his sacred breast with a cruel spear. Oh cruel ministers! O iron hearts, and so little you think the living body has suffered, that you don't want to forgive it even after death!
I think this comment is not correct. Those who wanted Christ's death were not the Roman soldiers, but the Sanhedrin, and the Jews influenced by the Sanhedrin. The Roman soldiers at the crucifixion were fulfilling a duty (probably, for them, a disagreeable duty) and what they did was not specially cruel. They divided the garments because that was the custom, dividing them among the military detachment on duty. And the spear in Christ's chest was just a way to make sure that he was already dead, rather than breaking his legs, but not a cruelty.
Incidentally, the spear in Christ's chest became a blessing for Christians, for it is a proof that Christ really died; a proof that his executors considered sufficient. This is forgotten by those who say that Christ was not really dead, so the Resurrection was just his recovery from a fainting fit. In the film "The inquiry" (2006) this scene has an important role. When Pilate and the Sanhedrin tell Tiberius's inquirer that Christ was not really dead, and he is convinced, he says: "Longinos, you have been tricked, Jesus was not dead!" And Longinos answers: "But I pushed a spear through his heart!" And the inquirer is automatically convinced that he himself has been tricked, not Longinos. By the way, there is no inkling in the film that Longinos speared Jesus because he was cruel.
I have run into some reading doldrums and have not been able to get back into this, or any of the other heavier reading I've been doing. I put Bleak House back on the shelf to try another day - right now I just can't stand the characters. All I can get myself to pick up is a relatively light mystery. A part of my problem may be with the huge workload - everyone wants to get their deals done by year-end this year.
I will try to get back to this in the next day or so.
I will try to get back to this in the next day or so.


Mariangel wrote: "I took a photo of the statue of St Pedro de Alcántara at the entrance of the co-cathedral of Cáceres."
Very nice!
Very nice!