Never stumbled across the definition of a man?

[Ash]

Dear OSS,

Found this powerful poetry by Rudy Francisco called "Chameleon".

https://youtu.be/jdKxViuNC8U

I'd like you to watch it,but if you can't,here is the major excerpt from the poem that shows that gender equality doesn't affect just women,it affects men all the same.

I was mentored by black men with brown skin who turned yellow at the sight of swollen bellies filled with half of their DNA

I was taught that a woman’s vagina is just an underground railroad to masculinity,

That real men have tunnel vision and treat girls like subway cars, like nothing more than a space to parallel park our genitals,

a hole to bury seeds and leave orchards in our rearview mirrors

 They say, they say you gotta peel a woman like a tangerine

And your job as a man is to chameleon yourself into her trees,

Bite a piece of her fruit and then leave the rest hanging crooked

And confused

This is an apology to every woman that I changed colours to get inside of.

 
You see, I still haven’t stumbled across the definition of man

But I know that we are hotels that stand a million war stories tall

I know that we carry guitar cases full of phobias hoping we can turn fear into our strongest instrument,

I know, that our hands break things just as frequent as we fix them…

And we often forget that sexism is a family heirloom that we’ve been passing down for generations.

As men, it’s important that we start asking ourselves…

What will the boys learn from us?

Do any of the wise men of OSS relate to such a situation where you were struggling about the definition of a man at any point of your life?

I'd love to hear your experiences,growing up in such a world.

[Britt]

I love this, thank you for sharing!

Sexism is definitely something that is passed down from generation to generation - it would be great if this could "skip" a generation just to be forgotten and never come back.

[James]

Ashna wrote: "Do any of the wise men of OSS relate to such a situation?."

Nope, cant say that i have and i grew up in the 70's and 80's. Some of the things mentioned in the poem is the first time ive ever heard of some of the terms used about women.

[Ash]

Britt wrote: "I love this, thank you for sharing!

Sexism is definitely something that is passed down from generation to generation - it would be great if this could "skip" a generation just to be forgotten and ..."

Yes,I hope so too.I wish it just forgets Earth and gets caught up in space gravity. :)

[Ash]

James wrote: "Ashna wrote: "Do any of the wise men of OSS relate to such a situation?."

Nope, cant say that i have and i grew up in the 70's and 80's. Some of the things mentioned in the poem is the first time ..."

Yes,I too have never heard of such terms used about women.However,the question was that;

Did you struggle about the definition of a man, growing up?

[James]

Ashna wrote: "Did you struggle about the definition of a man, growing up? ."

To be honest i dont even know how to answer this. I dont know whether i should be offended or if its even a legitimate question. I know you are not trying to be insulting but for some reason when i look at this from my perspective i cant help but take it that way.

What im about to write may not totally answer your question but i hope it can kind of explain where my thought process is with the subject matter at hand and why the question seems a bit "off" to me. Please dont take this as me being angry with you only that this is the best way i know how to explain my stance and how i see humanity in general. So here goes nothing. lol

If the question is did i as a young boy, teenager, young adult, or grown man see blatant sexism and/or mistreatment of women the answer would be yes. Did i experience first hand my stepfather cheating on my mother over the course of 20 plus years while also being mentally abusive with her in the process? Absolutely. Did i witness a male friend here or there treat girls like a smorgasbord all you can eat buffet? Oh yea.

But witnessing all that never taught me or made me feel like that was how i was supposed to act as a man myself. In fact to this day i have a very heavy resentment towards my stepfather because of the stuff he did to my mother. But i also learned very early that "bad behavior" isnt just a male problem. I learned when i was about 18 that girls can mistreat boys in the same manner and can hurt boys emotionally and physically as well.

A girl i dated at that time cheated on me with 3 different guys in a 7 month span. While i have long forgotten the girl the scars from that time period still linger albeit they dont dominate my life anymore. Thankfully, i found a wonderful woman in my wife who is my best friend and who has a mutual respect for me as i do her. She often tells me how different i am to my stepfather and that she is glad im nothing like him.

The point of all this is that while the poem itself can apply to men it also can apply to women and individuals with different sexual orientation. The gay/lesbian people i know all face the same issues that hetero's do when it comes to sex and love. Do i think humans in general can pick up bad habits from their parents (or in this case fathers)? Of course.

But i dont think its mutually exclusive to just one particular sex so when the question is "did you struggle about the definition of a man" it just seems like its a loaded question. To me bad behavior isnt just applied to one particular sex. I doubt i gave you the answer you were looking for or even wanted but as i said its not an easy question to answer. Every human being is different on how they approach life and how they interact with the opposite sex. Yes, we know (especially with what is going on now in the entertainment industry) that there are some very shitty men in the world. But people need to remember those guys dont represent the entire population of men in the world. They also are not the only ones who can behave badly when it comes to treating the opposite sex like garbage.

Maybe the question that we should be asking is "Did or do people struggle with what the definition of being a good human being is?"

[Ash]

James,

First off,I never meant it to be an insult or offence.

And I was obviously aiming at the question you managed to put through at the very end.

As for the answer,I don't think anybody could have answered this any better.From what I have read I think you are a very good human being,because all the bad we encounter can be processed either by further implementation or complete omission.And I think that if everybody took the second road,I guess we would far leave behind most of our satanic behaviour.

Lastly,thank you for sharing what you have experienced with me and taking out time to answer my illegitimate question. :)

P.S.-I never keep any expectations on the answers to my questions.

[James]

Ashna wrote: "James,

First off,I never meant it to be an insult or offence.

And I was obviously aiming at the question you managed to put through at the very end.

As for the answer,I don't think anybody could..."

No problem Ashna, as i said i wasnt mad at you about it. Just wasnt sure how to approach it or really answer it. Im kind of hoping some of the other guys comment so that i dont feel like a jackass here. lol

Hope you have a lovely day. :)

[Stella]

This poem reminds me of a TED talk I watched awhile ago (warning, he describes a rape)... https://www.ted.com/talks/tony_porter...

As a mother of two boys, I can verify that there are people who intentionally or unintentionally influence boys to conform to a very limiting definition of what it is to be a man. I look forward to hearing more voices like James on how they overcome/ignore these influences.

[Travis]

I believe the definition of a man is to be the head meaning to make sure all responsbilies are takin care of no matter what they my be.
No matter if he must make the money, or if he must stay at home to rasie the family or strip on a pole to get by, where ever the man is needed; to insure the neededs and wants are managed and meet with his best foot foward.
No matter are role we are the strong hold and sometimes we may take care of all the responsiblities in uniqe circumstances. Not saying we could do thing without women; no. Two heads are better than one. Im saying that if there is any faulter or problem that needed a helping hand or a solution for it that cant be figured out or inovated, thats when a man comes into play. No matter the role. Are women do what you dream of doing. We got this. A real man say were in this together.

But this is just my opinon; a theory

[Ash]

Stella wrote: "This poem reminds me of a TED talk I watched awhile ago (warning, he describes a rape)... https://www.ted.com/talks/tony_porter...

As a mother of two boys, I can verify that there are ..."

Yes,I think you are very right Stella and thanks for sharing the Ted Talk.Will look at it right away.:)

[Ash]

Travis wrote: "I believe the definition of a man is to be the head meaning to make sure all responsbilies are takin care of no matter what they my be.
No matter if he must make the money, or if he must stay at ho..."

A real man would say we are in this together.

Well,said Travis.I think you have a very right opinion as the entire point of equality is to create integration and working together, not the creation of hierarchy.

[Gerd]

Ashna wrote: "Did you struggle about the definition of a man, growing up?
..."

Hmm, from where I stand I don't think it ever stops.


I grew up with Randolph Scott, Jimmy Stewart and John Wayne telling me how a man behaves, and last but not least with Bogey forming my idea of how to treat a Lady.

"This is not the way to treat a lady."
"It's the only way to treat you." (Maltese Falcon)* :)

I grew up with movies like "Porkies" telling me how boys apparently behave, but thankfully grew up with John Hughes' movies in my formative years which featured heroes I could more easily identify with and truths that where closer to my own view of the world:
"It's better to be alone for the right reasons, than to be with someone for the wrong ones."

I grew up with parents that painted the rape of a hitchhiker as her own fault, and I guess it was at that time that I first realized that there's something seriously off with people when we blame the victims of crimes for the crime.

When my brother got his first girlfriend pregnant my father told her to have an abortion (she didn't) not bothering to ask her first what she wanted.

For most of my life the ideas I gleaned from old Hollywood (and from post Hughes young Hollywood) stood in direct contrast to what people IRL told me about how a "man" is supposed to think, feel, act - especially when it comes to women.

I still marvel about "men", I still don't understand them half of them time, which, unfortunately, probably means I still understand more about them than I do about women...

Question:
"They say, they say you gotta peel a woman like a tangerine"
What's that supposed to mean?
Do them in one long stripe? Peel them careful because they are soft underneath?


-----------------------------------------------------------
*Quotes used are given from memory and may not be entirely correct.

[Essie]

This poem, Chameleon, showed up in my Facebook feed recently. I loved it, but, of course, the comments were mostly polarized, and none of which felt like a conversation. Glancing over them felt like walking through a mine field. But that’s normal on FB.

I’ve rarely used GoodReads, and I mostly ignore the notifications. When I saw this, however, I was curious.

Every comment in here is understanding and expresses a level of empathy. Every comment adds thought to the conversation without trying to take away from another.

So, while completely unrelated to the topic at hand, I wanted to express my gratitude to each of you. The level of emotional awareness and thoughtful consideration expressed is refreshing. This conversation was a great way to start the day.

[Ash]

Gerd wrote: "Ashna wrote: "Did you struggle about the definition of a man, growing up?
..."

Hmm, from where I stand I don't think it ever stops.


I grew up with Randolph Scott, Jimmy Stewart and John Wayne te..."


Hi Gerd ,

I think you are very right in how you have described your experiences,being influenced my multimedia and people in power.This is exactly how many children grow up ,including me.However,we must know how to separate the chaff from the wheat.

Also,to line out my own experience,I too wonder about how one could actually become a 'woman'.I too like you am trying to learn from the teachings of great people such as Gloria Steinem and from movies with real bold actresses such as Angelina Jolie and Julia Roberts among others.

As for your question,that is the only line in the poem I could not understand.

Glad you shared your experience. :)

[Ash]

Emma wrote: "This poem is really powerful! Wow."

I know,this was my first reaction too.:)

[Ash]

Sarah wrote: "This poem, Chameleon, showed up in my Facebook feed recently. I loved it, but, of course, the comments were mostly polarized, and none of which felt like a conversation. Glancing over them felt lik..."

Hi Sarah,

I am glad that you found the topic interactive enough to comment on.What you say about FB being a mine field is very true.

Also,most of the topics on OSS have comments which are thoughtfully considered,because I feel most of the people who comment have something valuable to say ,which always adds to the knowledge.

And I think you'll always find it a heartwarming way to start the day if you interact with all us nice people. :)

[Ross]

The timelessness of the poem strikes me it's as relevant now as it was when it was written. But now in this time there is a glimmer that we may at last be changing men's acceptance of this view of women as something different, there to serve a purpose.

Now is the time to work to make sure we get to the point where no man see himself in this work.