Science Fiction Microstory Contest discussion
OCTOBER 2017 MICROSTORY CONTEST - COMMENTS ONLY
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Chris
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Sep 26, 2017 09:19AM
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Ok, so I have this MG sci-fi novel I'm thinking about self-publishing. I'm looking for any tips, tricks, referrals, information...etc. I've never done anything like this before, so ANY help or guidance would be appreciated. In all honestly, I was never an English or creative writing major, and ten years ago would never have even considered even writing a book. Now, I have 4 completed manuscripts that are pretty much ready to go. If you have any experience with this, I'd love to get your input. It seems to be a little overwhelming. Is there a secret (outside of the material) to developing, publishing, and marketing a successful book?
As an aside, is it worth it in the end?
Maybe message me if you'd be willing to share what you've learned.
Thanks! :)
Chris, have you been to any writers conferences? Workshops?
Paula wrote: "Chris, have you been to any writers conferences? Workshops?"No, but I probably should. The problem for me, I guess, is finding the time when I already seem to be stretched thin as it is. I think that's also part of why publishing seems so daunting. I also suppose that, until recently, I never thought of myself as much of a serious writer, though now I can't seem to stop. I think about it all the time. My request for advice probably also sadly reveals my level of naivete at being a novice writer.
***Sigh***
Well, I'm hardly a novice, Chris, and I too would love good advice re self-publishing, especially the technical aspects. And yes, having too much work and too many projects daunts many of us re self-publishing. If you can afford to, hire an editor, a copyeditor, and a proofreader (best if 3--or at least 2--persons); then when they're done withthe book and you've gone over it, you get a book designer and publisher (may be one person/firm or more), buy some ISBN numbers from RR Bowker Company, contact the US Copyrights office for info on registering copyright, and you're nearly done. --Up to the marketing, which is the hard part, lol.
Paula wrote: "Well, I'm hardly a novice, Chris, and I too would love good advice re self-publishing, especially the technical aspects. And yes, having too much work and too many projects daunts many of us re sel..."Yikes!
Mod
As for self-publishing, I think the hardest thing was getting the formatting and book cover right, but once you are able to do that, it is easier for your later books. I could certainly lend a hand.
The most expensive and perhaps most important part is having someone like Paula edit your book. For the first book, you really won't know the types of errors you might be making until you have an editor review your work.
Good luck and best wishes,
Jot
Hi Chris,I self-published my two novellas through Amazon, which was a very easy and painless process. Really, go online and read about it. It can be as simple as opening an account and uploading a proofed manuscript.
Now, I had a professional editor friend edit both of them and I paid her $60 per hour for editing. That is the biggest cost, but completely worth it. My books may not be the most compelling sci-fi in the world, but they are very well edited and many comments and critiques of them have noted that.
Since they are only in e-book format I did not get or need an ISBN number for them. However, Amazon will also provide those for books you want to make in hard copy. Amazon has print-on-demand for paperbacks, which is what you'll want.
There are no upfront costs with Amazon, and they do provide several tools to help market books. My best advice is to go read about these services and decide if you want to go that route. The royalty ratio is 70/30, with 70 percent going to the author.
Since I am extremely risk averse and wanted to get my work out into the world, this was the route I took for my first two novellas. Now I'm working on audio versions of both to upload through Amazon as well.
Please feel free to ping me offline if you want to discuss, or I can send you my mobile number to talk.
Best wishes!!!
Justin wrote: "Hi Chris,I self-published my two novellas through Amazon, which was a very easy and painless process. Really, go online and read about it. It can be as simple as opening an account and uploading ..."
Thanks for the advice Justin! I do have an editor I've used for general copyediting/proofing in the past and she seems to do a pretty good job. I've never found any problems with her work and she really helped me clean up my first and second manuscript (which I never actually published). I think I'm going to start by trying to publish my third one and see how it goes.
I was thinking about using Lulu.com for publishing and getting an ISBN number to make my work available to a broader audience. It might cost a little more money, but I'm hoping for a broader distribution. I have some experience with marketing my own business and a family member who is a professional in social media marketing. So, we'll see how it goes.
Jot wrote: "Even without being able to sell many books, I think it's worth it. Writing is an emotional release and hugely educational experience. Not to mention, if you do have the talent, which I know you do,..."Thanks for the advice Jot! I appreciate it! :)
While I'm on the subject, does anyone have any advice as far as designing a cover. I'd like to avoid the stock cover-art many of these self publishing sites offer. Then again, I'm no Rockefeller. Does anyone have any suggestions regarding cover art that doesn't cost a mint. I'm actually a pretty good artist myself but would prefer maybe turning to someone with some experience and objectivity. Thanks! :)
Hi Chris,I've self published three novels on Amazon and as Justin observed, the process is quite easy and doesn't require much time or any money to speak of. The editing is expensive, but well worth it. I had Proofreadingpal.com do my books and they did a crackerjack job, finding me not only a great in-house editor, but one with substantial experience with commercially successful science fiction so he brought perspective to the game in addition to accurate technical skills.
Original cover art can be pricey if you engage a professional cover artist. My first cover was an original illustration which cost only $250, my second cover was completely original art which cost almost $2,000, and the third cover consisted of existing art which hadn't been used before due to a cancelled project. for about half-price.
Was it all worth it? I had about 1200 downloads and over 50 reviews (averaged 4.3 out of a perfect 5!) and so it was not a financial success although I must agree with Jot that it is highly educational and fulfilling. My writing is much better now, and this advantage spills over into many of my other business interests.
So if you got the dough, get some art. But frankly, with all the cool drawing programs and free cover art now available from self publishing houses, you can whip something up that's not only unique, but eye-catching without requiring you to shell out much money, just your time.
Best of luck to you with your new writing career! There's nothing more fun than a great science fiction novel, and I'll look forward to seeing your work.
-C
C. wrote: "Hi Chris,I've self published three novels on Amazon and as Justin observed, the process is quite easy and doesn't require much time or any money to speak of. The editing is expensive, but well wo..."
That's good to know, C.
So, I guess my next question for the group is how much is a reasonable price to pay for an editor on a 83,000 word manuscript? And, are we talking about content editing or copyediting? At $7.50 per page, on a 350 page manuscript written in Word, that's nearly $3000 for content editing, and that doesn't even include a $1000+ copyedit, not to mention proof-read. Then a few hundred dollars for art.
In the end, I could almost buy a used car. And, if I only end up selling a few hundred copies after countless weeks and months of hard work, it becomes a net loss. That was/is my initial concern, my stumbling block, with beginning the process at all. It hardly seems worth it.
Then again, I have nearly zero experience with this and I guess as a business owner, I'm over thinking this. Still, publishing IS a business and should at least result in a net benefit in the end. Am I wrong? Tens of thousands of people self-publish books every year. What am I missing?
I love writing and would love to share my work with others, but I really can't afford to be paying the public to read my work, lol.
My editor did proofreading and true editing. She really whipped my books into line. You might negotiate a fixed price for the whole thing, or a not to exceed threshold. Since my editor was a friend and colleague, I did not want to shortchange her and paid her freelance rate.In my opinion, you have to commit yourself to spending a certain amount of money - which you might not recoup. Only you can decide what you can sacrifice. I have not recouped my costs, but I'm also not promoting them, going to writer forums, getting on Facebook (basic!!) getting reviews, etc., etc. I simply do not have the time and I would rather get the audio versions done and up. So for me it is a question of time.
Do an inexpensive cover perhaps to start. When it takes off and you're raking it in, then you can redo the cover. :)
Hugh Howey's "Wool" sat on Amazon for four years before it was discovered and took off, generating a lot of income for him. There is no silver bullet. It is hitting multiple social media outlets, doing select banner ads, making author appearances, doing a webcast or podcast, and dozens of other things repeatedly to get your name out there. You need to flesh out what dollars you can spend and decide where you want to spend them. Then execute!!
Jot, any idea when the 2016 science fiction in a flash will be published?
Justin wrote: "My editor did proofreading and true editing. She really whipped my books into line. You might negotiate a fixed price for the whole thing, or a not to exceed threshold. Since my editor was a friend..."Thanks Justin. I'll have to think this through. I know that I have to invest in myself to get things going but I'd just like to be sure I get that investment back in some meaningful way. I'm still giving it some thought and we'll see what happens next.
:)
Chris, most pro editors will charge anywhere from $40 to $75 per hour for most types of editing (proofreading and light copyediting tend to be more like $25 to $45 per hour). Depending on the state of readiness of the manuscript, the finished quality sought, and the thoroughness and/or speed of the editor, content editing can go 5 to 10 pages per hour. In my experience, careful copyediting takes as long or longer, anywhere from 4 to 8 pages per hour; but this, again, depends on the state and complexity of the manuscript. --Yes, often the content editing and the copyediting can be done by the same person, but sometimes--not always--this may require 2 editing passes through the manuscript. I'd advise, generally, against using the same person for proofreading as for any of the editing; this is because, though Justin's editor may be an exception, generally an editor will be too familiar with a manuscript, by the time s/he gets to the proofreading (which should be done last) to see and catch some of the minor, one-letter-off sorts of mistakes that good proofreading catches; for instance, one may not note the comma where a period was intended, or the d that should have been a t before the ly ending, or the like.I hope this is helpful.
Paula wrote: "Chris, most pro editors will charge anywhere from $40 to $75 per hour for most types of editing (proofreading and light copyediting tend to be more like $25 to $45 per hour). Depending on the state..."Very helpful. Thanks Paula! :)
Chris--note--there are always other editors, oftentimes good ones--outside that approximate average range.
Chris wrote: "C. wrote: "Hi Chris,I've self published three novels on Amazon and as Justin observed, the process is quite easy and doesn't require much time or any money to speak of. The editing is expensive, ..."
Hi Chris,
Proofreadingpal.com does a quote based on the number of words, and they quote larger projects like manuscripts with aggressive pricing. I can't divulge their quote publicly and it may be dated, but it was a pretty good deal. Here are their comments about pricing larger projects from their website:
"For documents of over 15,000 words, please contact ProofreadingPal at 888-833-8385 or e-mail us for a custom quote. We offer many different options for larger documents such as manuscripts, theses, dissertations, manuals, etc., including longer turnaround rates and one-proofreader pricing."
By the way, I have no interest in their business or success other than appreciation and gratitude for three jobs well done.
-C
C. wrote: "Chris wrote: "C. wrote: "Hi Chris,I've self published three novels on Amazon and as Justin observed, the process is quite easy and doesn't require much time or any money to speak of. The editing ..."
Thanks C. I'll have to check that out! :)
People, if you use some of these online "farms" for your editing/proofing, do figure the arithmetic and consider whether they may be paying their "stable" help less than minimum wages. And ask yourself whether, if they exploit the help, they are likely to do an honorable job for their clientele.
Paula wrote: "People, if you use some of these online "farms" for your editing/proofing, do figure the arithmetic and consider whether they may be paying their "stable" help less than minimum wages. And ask your..."Noted. I for one definitely agree and support paying a reasonable fee for reasonable work, so I'll consider that when looking for an editor. We all have families to provide for.
Still, if I can find a reputable independent editor that doesn't charge $75 per hour, I'll have to consider that too, especially on something as lengthy as a novel. ;)
I wish you the best of luck with your project, Chris, however you decide to handle it.BTW - First story's up. ('Hope we see others soon.)
Carol Fix says she'll release the next TFIS anthology within the next two weeks.FYI
-C
Chris,I found Createspace to be fairly straightforward. For my cover, I taught myself PaintshopPro so I could prototype for a paid artist but I ended up using what I had created, though I have a better cover now that I am procrastinating about uploading. I haven't sold many but I got so frustrated trying to get an agent or publisher interested, despite being an ABNA quarterfinalist and getting a great Kirkus review, (which I paid for but, believe me, they are objective reviews, as I've seen some other paid ones that were highly critical). Despite poor sales, due in part because I'm not much of a DIY marketer, I am happy with the decision to self-publish. It's not a purely practical decision. You're an author and you want to see the damn thing in print and make it available to readers, and satisfying that impulse is probably a good idea in the long wrong, if only for your mental health.
If you've a cover you consider better, JF, use it. Covers promote books. What is the ABNA? I'm not surprised you came close to winning it if it's a writing competition, and that you received a fine Kirkus review, as your work is extremely professional and good.
Paula,, The ABNA was The Amazon Breakthrough Novel Award which ended a few years ago. It was probably the most lucrative open novel contest ever, paying a $50K advance for the first prize.
I will make a point of getting that new cover uploaded. I also have a minor rewrite, just a few word changes and corrections, and that complicates it, so I think I'll just focus on the cover change for now.
C. wrote: "Carol Fix says she'll release the next TFIS anthology within the next two weeks.FYI
-C"
Thanks for the update C!
J.F. wrote: "Chris,I found Createspace to be fairly straightforward. For my cover, I taught myself PaintshopPro so I could prototype for a paid artist but I ended up using what I had created, though I have a b..."
J.F., it's good to know I'm not the only one who's had that problem with agents. It's such a subjective business and I've felt like you need to be the next Charles Dickens (which I am not) to get them to even consider your work. I even had one story I submitted that was excellent - absolutely unique, very well received by beta readers, and probably my best written work...get over 150 rejections, even with a professionally reviewed query letter. Almost none of them requested any more than a single chapter. Oh well.
“Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”― Winston Churchill
Press on, because a yes might be at attempt 151, 152 or 153.
Chris wrote: "J.F. wrote: "Chris,I found Createspace to be fairly straightforward. For my cover, I taught myself PaintshopPro so I could prototype for a paid artist but I ended up using what I had created, thou..."
Not unusual, Chris. A lot of great classics were rejected for years. One thing to keep in mind, the whole world has changed in recent years, but the traditional publishing industry is no different than it was 100 years ago. If you are willing to invest a little money and time you can do EVERYTHING a traditional publisher does today. I purposely have taken this route. It's a long-term proposition for me. Plus, it's fun.
Chris,My brother donates his time and money to lobby congress and the entire congressional bureaucratic food chain to abolish hunger in America.
It's a great and important cause, and he spends lots of time working on all kinds of fun projects. He doesn't have a boss; he has a coach. He doesn't have income, and so he doesn't have any income tax problems.
What he has, is a wife who works hard to support him in a nice lifestyle to which he has become accustomed.
Kinda gives you pause about the idea of authorship, doesn't it?
: )
-C
Hey Chris,I just read this quote by Churchill in this multi-part biography I've been readying for a loooong time.
"Writing a book is an adventure. To begin with, it is a toy, and an amusement; then it becomes a mistress, and then it becomes a master, and then a tyrant. The last phase is that just as you are about to be reconciled to your servitude, you kill the monster, and fling him about to the public."
I thought you might be inspired. :)
Hey Chris,My new favorite quote about writing:
“I have told people that writing this book has been like brushing away dirt from a fossil. What a load of shit. It has been like hacking away at a freezer with a screwdriver.”
― Amy Poehler
-C
Justin wrote: "Hey Chris,I just read this quote by Churchill in this multi-part biography I've been readying for a loooong time.
"Writing a book is an adventure. To begin with, it is a toy, and an amusement; t..."
Ha! That's a great one. Lol!
C. wrote: "Hey Chris,My new favorite quote about writing:
“I have told people that writing this book has been like brushing away dirt from a fossil. What a load of shit. It has been like hacking away at a ..."
Boy, that's the truth, for sure! :)
Jack wrote: "Chris wrote: "J.F. wrote: "Chris,I found Createspace to be fairly straightforward. For my cover, I taught myself PaintshopPro so I could prototype for a paid artist but I ended up using what I had..."
Jack, congrats on getting on Huffpost with Agents of Hope!
G.C., your story is hilarious! Well done!
Justin wrote: "G.C., your story is hilarious! Well done!"Thanks Justin!
Yes, well done, GC! Quite a yarn.Plutonium radiation poisoning. . . yikes!
-C
Having been a Physics major I saw it coming. Good story GC!Reminds me of an actual incident at Los Alamos that killed two physicists labeled the "demon core" incident.
Thank you friends for the kind words. The story I submitted was inspired by the Stephen King short story "Battleground" in which a man has a deadly interaction with a package he receives. Kalifer, I had previously read about the criticality accidents which have occurred since the development of the atomic bomb, including the "demon core" and others. I thought that the puzzle idea (where one piece is delivered each day) provided a fresh twist, and I tried to bury in the story clues to what was happening, things that readers like Kalifer and C.Lloyd would catch but other readers might not, but they would look back after reading and say to themselves, "ahhhhhhhhhhhh that's what he was doing."My first submission but very fun so far.
Hey, G.C.! Welcome to the group. Your story was a...bang! Awesome! lol. :)
Thanks for letting us know Chris!! Exciting to see it out there...with our names attached!
