Reading the Church Fathers discussion
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Matt 18:20 and schismatics
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Hi Luke,Are you interested in the church unity as a general topic, or in Cyprian's teaching in particular?
I've been meaning to ask you. Since you're interested in discussing the Church Fathers, and have written a 40-day devotional on a few of them. I'm wondering whether you would like to lead a discussion of Cyprian's "On the Unity of the Church" and draw from materials in your book?
Nemo wrote: "Hi Luke,Are you interested in the church unity as a general topic, or in Cyprian's teaching in particular?
I've been meaning to ask you. Since you're interested in discussing the Church Fathers,..."
Hey, thanks! That does sound like fun :) Not quite sure how I'd go about it, do you have a format for specific studies here? Or shall I just look at the other posts? :)
Luke mentioned reading Cyprian's On the Unity of the Church.I'm just saying this for future reference. It appears that there are two distinct manuscript traditions for chapters 4 and 5 of On the Unity of the Church. The CCEL edition does not mention this, so far as I can tell in a quick exploration.
My source is the Popular Patristics volume, Introduction, Section 5.3 "The Textual Tradition", pp. 42-44.
I didn't realise that. So are there two versions of chapters 4 and 5, is that what you're saying? As for my original quote, that was from chapter 12
Luke said, "So are there two versions of chapters 4 and 5, is that what you're saying?"Yes. For future reference, if we discuss it in detail. I am making no point, just putting a yellow sticky note up.
Partway through chapter 4 the divergence begins. Partway through chapter 5 the divergence ends.
I'll bear that in mind. I may need to look into this and add some footnotes to my book now!
Luke said, "I may need to look into this and add some footnotes to my book now!"Ah. I see it is relevant in the present indicative, not in the hypothetical future. I'll send you the details somehow.
Thanks. Even if you could just take a photo of the relevant page(s) of that book you sourced, that would be interesting to see
I attempted to send you a link via a Goodreads message. Please let me know if you got it, etc. Then maybe we should delete this back-and-forth. I also attempted to send the link to Nemo.
Shorter Oxford English Dictionary defines "textus receptus" as:textus receptus /rɪˈsɛptəs/ [lit. ‘received text’], a text accepted as authoritative; spec. (usu. with cap. initials) the received text of the Greek New Testament. M19.
"M19" is not a road, but when the term began to be used: middle of the 19th century.
Sometimes it seems to mean "the version with the most witnesses," where a witness is a manuscript or manuscript family.
The NKJV and the Authorized Version (aka "KJV") use the NT textus receptus.
Do forgive me if I'm telling you stuff you already know.
Luke wrote: "Not quite sure how I'd go about it, do you have a format for specific studies here? Or shall I just look at the other posts? :) .."You're free to choose whatever format works for you.
For starters, you could share with the group what led you to write about these Fathers, what is your criteria for selecting those texts in general, and your interest in Cyprian's treatise in particular, etc.
Just for anyone following — I do intend to do this, maybe next week. Everything is quite busy at the moment in life! :)
Nemo wrote: "You're free to choose whatever format works for you. For starters, you could share with the group what led you to write about these Fathers, what is your criteria for selecting those texts in general, and your interest in Cyprian's treatise in particular, etc. "
OK so I'm thinking of starting this now -- is this "general" section the best place or is there somewhere else more appropriate?
Luke wrote: "I'm thinking of starting this now -- is this "general" section the best place or is there somewhere else more appropriate?..."Excellent timing! :) The Origen discussions are just drawing to a close, and I think we're ready for another group read.
To help decide where to put this topic, could you answer the questions I posted in msg2:
Are you interested in the church unity as a general topic, or in Cyprian's teaching in particular?
Nemo wrote: "To help decide where to put this topic, could you answer the questions I posted in msg2:Are you interested in the church unity as a general topic, or in Cyprian's teaching in particular? "
It's a bit of both really! I've always been interested in whether the Church can ever have any kind of uniformity globally. But that is also more fuelled now by my reading of Cyprian who emphasised it so much.
Maybe a two parter? A look at the expectations of unity in the Church and how that can influence or be applicable to us today?
Nemo wrote: "In that case, please create a new topic in "Topical Interests" folder."This is now posted in the Topical Interests folder :)
See here: Cyprian: on the unity of the Church
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I've not ever disagreed with that sentiment really, but on reading Cyprian's epistle, "On the unity of the Church" (249-251), he makes the point that this very interpretation of that verse is the basis for schismatics and heretics who break unity with the established orthodoxy.
I just found that quite interesting, and thought I'd share to see what anyone else thinks.