The History Book Club discussion
This topic is about
The Day of the Scorpion
HISTORY OF SOUTHERN ASIA
>
WEEK FIVE ~ THE DAY OF THE SCORPION ~ July 14th - July 20th > PART THREE - A Wedding, 1943 (144 - 170) No Spoilers
date
newest »
newest »
We do not have to do citations regarding the book or the author being discussed during the book discussion on these discussion threads - nor do we have to cite any personage in the book being discussed while on the discussion threads related to this book.However if we discuss folks outside the scope of the book or another book is cited which is not the book and author discussed then we do have to do that citation according to our citation rules. That makes it easier to not disrupt the discussion.
NOTEFor those of you who are reading this book on e-books or whose edition has different numbering than that used by the moderator, the last page of this week's assignment ends with the sentence, "In the circumstances, it would be a proper gesture to be at the reception early rather than late."
Chapter Overview and SummaryA WEDDING - A Marriage, 1943
Sarah goes to the station restaurant to have breakfast with her family. She realizes that no one knows her mother is a secret drinker; instead she just appears vague and distracted. She sees in Teddy and Susan no real conviction. Susan is playing Susan, in other words, the center of attention and living her life in a public and irresponsible way. They discuss the new Viceroy, Lord Wavell and agree that he will make a good overseer because he is a soldier. Sarah does not comment.
Several of the party ride to the palace accompanied by Captain Merrick whose family, her aunt tells her, would not stand up to much inspection; in other words he is not public school. Sarah muses over her relationship with her mother who loves Susan more than she does Sarah. She characterizes the Englishmen in India and decides that Teddy will fall into the less desirable category.....red, beefy, with loud voices and given to displays of anger in public.
Captain Merrick outlines the schedule for the days before the marriage and explains that the Nawab's staff will be at their service. They will stay in a guesthouse on the grounds of the palace. He explains that young Ahmed is in the service of the Nawab and must not be treated as an errand boy since they are in the tiny sovereign territory of the Nawab.
Aunt Fenny thinks it was wrong for Sarah to go riding with young Ahmed and Sarah agrees only because they had been self-conscious with each other. During the ride, Sarah thought of Daphne's love for an Indian boy.
Captains Merrick and Bingham are riding in one of the Nawab's cars when a stone is thrown, breaking the window and slightly injuring Teddy. Count Bronowsky reports the incident to the Nawab. The Count has spent many years shaping the Nawab from a reckless ruler to a more responsible politician and in the process has solidified his own power base. .The Nawab also has two sons but Bronowsky is not interested in them as they are bland and awkward. The Count favors a marriage between the Nawab's beautiful daughter and young Ahmed but is not optimistic about that opportunity.
QuestionWhy do you think Susan is marrying Teddie....because it is expected that the young English women in India are expected to find a husband in the military, or is there another reason? Scott certainly makes it pretty clear that there is some question about the attraction between the two....or at least through Sarah's eyes.
That's a pregnant question.
There's really nothing in this section that helps us much with the answer to that question, Jill. We haven't had a close up look at the relationship between Susan and Teddy. The only explanation we have here might be found in Sarah's reflections about English men and women in India and the collective - and socially expected - approach. Sarah describes it as an "ideal that she was supposed to share and which the young man in question apparently assumed was a ready-made link, a reliable primary connection between them that might or might not be more intimately strengthened according to taste"(p. 639) - an ideal difficult to define but that Sarah believes Susan has thoughtlessly and casually accepted. So, it's the "thing to do" in their social circle - the public ideal applied to the personal.
Martin wrote: "That's a pregnant question."Well, the 'ladies who lunch' clearly share your suspicions, but I don't think it's that at all. The scene that young Ahmed witnessed between Susan and Teddie suggested to me that Susan probably didn't allow her fiance anything more than a chaste kiss.
I suspect that Susan just got tired of her game of 'let's steal Sarah's latest beau', or sensed that people were beginning to be unimpressed, attributing the constant triumphs to something lacking in Sarah, rather than something wonderful about Susan.
So to keep the spotlight on herself Susan had to invent a new game--Susan getting married--preferably with a Nawab dancing attendance.
I confess it...I really, really don't like Susan. I think she's a nasty, manipulative, narcissistic creature. Whew! Got that off my chest! /rant
Hahaha- love it, Hana. I have to say I haven't had much of an emotional reaction to either Sarah or Susan so far, although Sarah (speaking for herself) is more likeable, I think.I had more of a sense that it was Sarah's rejection of her beaus that ended them up in Susan's lap, so to speak, rather than Susan stealing them away.
Did I miss a hint about a pregnancy?
Well to quote from the 'ladies who lunch' on the subject of Sarah, Susan and the Ten Beaus p. 121: "for a time it seemed that [Teddie Bingham] would prove to be the exception to the rule that any man first taking an interest in Sarah Layton would presently cool off to her and start paying attention to Susan, who admittedly was prettier, livelier..." In addition to the ten ex-Sarah beaus there were plenty of others, so clearly Susan has something that is quite magnetic.The pregnancy thing is hinted at by Mrs. Paynton as the ladies discuss the hasty wedding plans p. 128: "'I'm not at all sure...that Mrs Layton should allow herself to be rushed like this....You don't suppose...' She did not say what was not supposed because she knew the other ladies must have supposed it already..." A wonderfully catty paragraph full of nasty speculations, all so politely and elliptically described!
Oh, thanks, Hana. I missed that!
Martin wrote: "That's a pregnant question."You make me chuckle, Martin......great comment.
Donna is right in the fact that we really don't know much about Teddie and Susan and it would be hard to determine how their marriage relationship will develop; but Susan strikes me as one who will become an English matron who looks down her nose at anything Indian...somewhat like Aunt Fenny who thinks the Bengal famine is exaggerated and they only eat rice anyway.
Sarah, on the other hand, had beliefs and ideals that I think she is trying hard to hide for fear of being chastised. She will be more able to accept the coming changes in India when they come.
Donna has a point about Sarah driving her suitors away. I rather think Sarah's headed for spinsterhood, and a lonely one at that. Her caustic views on the unfortunate young men foolish enough to become 'amorous' with her seem more than a bit harsh to me.Sarah can't be a very comfortable person to be around.
Sarah also puts rather an excessive premium on individualism: "What we shall leave behind [in India] is what we have done as a group and not what we could have done as individuals which means that it will be second rate." Oh come now, Sarah, most of what mankind accomplishes is a collective endeavor!
That quote reminded me of what George Carlin said of people. He said individually, he liked many, or most, people. It's when people act as groups that brings out the worst.Either way, it's dukha, all the time, everywhere.
It seems to me there's a bit of tension between being the social persona and the individual. It's most difficult to integrate the two, hence Sarah's response to Aunty Fenny when the matron pronounces: "To establish a relationship with Indians you can only afford to be yourself and let them like it or lump it.""'Yes,' Sarah said. "'I suppose you're right. But out here are we ever really ourselves?'"
And that leads into the next session, which begins:
"There was, to begin with, the incident of the stone."
Some 13 pages into the meditation on the thrown stone, we get this from Sarah:
"A stone: such a little thing. But look at us - Sarah thought - it has transformed us. We have acquired diginity. At no other time do we move with such grace as we do now when we feel threatened by violence but untouched by its vulgarity. A stone thrown by an unknown Indian shatters the window of a car, a piece of flying glass cuts an Englishman on the cheek and at once we sense the sharing of a secret that sustains and extends us...
"And it was a special kind of solidarity, Sarah realized. It transcended mere clannishness because its whole was greater than all its parts together. It uplifted, it magnified. It added a rare gift to a life which sometimes seemed niggardly in its rewards, and left one inspired to attack the problems of that life with the grave simplicity proper to their fair and just solution."
And we ask why the Brits come to India? Where else would they have such a life on their island of shopkeepers?
But there's a problem, right? They're not themselves. They're dressed up in uniforms playing at being something other than what they are and there's discomfort in that, no?
Martin wrote: "It seems to me there's a bit of tension between being the social persona and the individual. It's most difficult to integrate the two, hence Sarah's response to Aunty Fenny when the matron pronounc..."Yes, I think that's right. And that must be one of the reasons Sarah, the professed individualist, feels so disconcerted. On the other hand she's been playing a phoney game herself, pretending not to mind always being the unloved one, always letting Susan get her way--and it's been going on her whole life.
Do you think that something is on the horizon that will make a difference in Sarah's "phony game"......that she will be called upon to let her real feelings come to the surface. The only reason I say this is that she keeps thinking about Daphne who she probably considers the ultimate rebel. It may not be in the form of intimacy with Ahmed but something that goes against the grain of the rigid British "code". I am seeing something in her that is deeper than Scott is showing us at this point......or maybe she will just be a lonely spinster and I am reading something in her character that doesn't exist.
It's a good question, Jill. She's so caught up in her family and doesn't seem able to detach herself from them beyond doing this sort of 'Sarah the Silent Watcher' number. I'm not sure Sarah can really do intimacy any better than Susan can. Just a feeling, but she seems socially awkward. That ride with Ahmed was rather embarrassing, as was her long silence when she looked at the child with Lady Manners.
Does she go against the code deliberately or is she just sort of lost? I'm not at all sure.
Jill wrote: "Do you think that something is on the horizon that will make a difference in Sarah's "phony game"......that she will be called upon to let her real feelings come to the surface. The only reason I s..."Oh, I sure hope so. Scott certainly seems to be building up to something here with all this background and personal reflection. Sarah seems much too self efficacious to just allow things to happen to her. She is a girl of independent thought and action even though these traits cause her some discomfort. I think she will end up a spinster only if that's what she chooses.
Jill - a couple of house cleaning items. I think you brought up the stone throwing incident in next week's thread. Shouldn't it be in this thread?Also, in the intro to week 6, I think you have Susan visiting Lady M at the houseboat, but I believe that was Sarah, no?
Martin wrote: "I think you brought up the stone throwing incident in next week's thread. Shouldn't it be in this thread?...."The stone throwing incident is in the summary above. And speaking of that, it was odd, happening as it did on Susan and Teddie's wedding day and in the Nawab's apparently very well-run kingdom.
I got a completely new picture of Merrick in this section. He is really very useful to have around. Terrifically efficient. Too bad about the accent :/
Martin wrote: "Jill - a couple of house cleaning items. I think you brought up the stone throwing incident in next week's thread. Shouldn't it be in this thread?Also, in the intro to week 6, I think you have Su..."
Martin.....the stone throwing incident is also discussed several times in next week's read, ergo I mentioned it. It is also in the last paragraph of this week's summary. I indeed said Susan instead of Sarah in next week's summary but I always go through the summaries before I open a thread and probably would have caught it but thanks for bringing it to my attention. That is why the threads are closed so that any errors or typos can be corrected prior to opening the weekly read.
@Hana.....Merrick does seem different in this book....polite, efficient and somewhat more human..... but I think we have to remember his actions against Hari Kumar. I think he interacts well enough with the British as we would expect but not so well with the Indians. I wonder if he is starting to become interested in Sarah who reminds him of the Daphne he admired before her "fall from grace"?
Merrick certainly attached himself to Sarah with great speed and I thought I caught a little frisson of interest on Sarah's part.
I loved this book. I'm a bit afraid to comment much because I finished the book and am afraid I might give away spoilers.
It seems to be the practice for the young English women in India to find a husband in the military. I also thought that maybe there was a flicker of interest on Sarah's part but I don't think she will follow the usual pattern. In my opinion Scott has another destiny for her. I will really be fooled if she marries Merrick and they ride off together in the sunset!!! :>
Merrick & a sunset -- oh that is just a NO!
Isn't that the truth!!!!!The author posits three situations (pg 173-174) for the rock throwing incident. What do you think might be the real reason or is it even an incident that is a precursor to something more violent?
Kathy wrote: "Merrick & a sunset -- oh that is just a NO!":D I can just hear Aunt Fenny rushing to agree with you: "I don't suppose Captain Merrick's family would bear close inspection. But he's quite the little gentleman, isn't he...."
Yes, that was a great line.
Jill wrote: "Isn't that the truth!!!!!The author posits three situations (pg 173-174) for the rock throwing incident. What do you think might be the real reason or is it even an incident that is a precursor t..."
I imagine so, after all we do still have the war, and India is still waiting for Independence.
Well, I'm terrible at these speculation questions, but I guess it was aimed at Merrick.By the way, was anyone else fascinated by Count Bronowsky's revelations about his rehabilitation of the Nawab and his feelings about young Ahmed?
The Count puzzles me somewhat.......did he take on the Nawab's rehabilitation to provide himself with a power base? That would be my supposition. If he came from Russia at the time of the Revolution (I don't remember that it was mentioned but his age is right), he was at loose ends as were all White Russians. But how he wound up with the Nawab is unknown.
@Jill 27 Whatever or whoever is behind it, I have every confidence in Count Bronowsky's ability to get to the bottom of it. He's really growing on me and I just love the way he guides the Nawab.I'm also growing rather fond of the Nawab as seen through Bronowsky's eyes and I love the little detail about his public rooms being 'furnished in the manner of a plush and gilt hotel of pre-Great War vintage on the Cote d'Azur'.
Yep, I really liked that whole section - my favorite part of this week's reading.
Mine too! Poor Count Bronowsky--always in love with the lad he can't have ;)
The Count spoke once about his intelligence network (or some such words) so I have every hope that he will know exactly who and why the incident occurred. And it may be a tiny ripple that expands into ever larger circles since the environment is rather tenuous I also really like this section and one thing struck me was the fact that there was concern that the subversives living in the Nawab's princely state could influence the Indian Army. The Sepoy Rebellion came to my mind when the army threw down their weapons and joined the rebels. This is a different situation but is a possibility not to be overlooked.
The stoning of Teddy strikes me as at once explosive, but also redolent of musings paranoid, clinical, cultural and even mythical.In my mind's eye it immediately conjured images of David and Goliath. In this, it brings to mind the intifada and any other confrontation where an underdog takes on a much better armed opponent with the rock, the most basic of weaponry.
But it also serves as an instance for the Brits to rally round their own cited upthread.
The conflict fosters paranoid musings by an occupier who manages to control the subcontinent with a handful of soldiers and administrators who would last a nanosecond if the Indians rose in widespread rebellion. Such a precarious seating will keep one's imagination active.
Merrick's analysis is at once what one would expect from the sharp mind of a police official near the street, complete with judgments that at best are knee jerk. It's a peek inside Merrick's mind, which in a few pages will be characterized as (DELETED by Spoiler Police).
Ultimately, though, and this followed on immediately after the shock, it's a joke. What's Teddy's worry as he lays less than mortally wounded? Cosmetics. He can't possibly get married in his uniform if it has blood on it? (What ever happened to the notion of blood at a wedding as a metaphor for mysterious union?) And, his precious face...
All over a stone. Not a big one. A little one. Not a shower of stones. A single stone.
But, then again, this assault occurred in circular space/time, while traveling in linear space/time, a point Scott dwells on. So, maybe it's a joke, only as long as one does not look too closely.
Count Bonowsky and the Nawab clearly don't view it as a joke and they are far more concerned about it than Teddie is. And I don't blame Teddi for fussing over his uniform--he's about to get married to the most popular girl in town and it's his best uniform, poor chap :)
I like your analogy of David and Goliath, Martin. And the fact that India is occupied by a rather pitiful number of British in relation to the number of the indigenous population. Scott gives us a few choices as to what the stone throwing means from the British point of view. Is it the first stone of an avalanche or an isolated incident that may be just a symbolic image of the unsettled environment? No one knows at this point.The Nawab's personal austerity is an interesting aspect of his personality and not something that the Count had taught him. So it appears that he is not quite as shallow as first indicated since, as Scott says about that austerity on pg.163. ".....a badge of his right to lead a personal, private life and as evidence of how spare such a life had to be when so much of his interest and energy was expended for the benefit of the people...." He may a wiser person than he first appeared, beyond what was inculcated in him by the Count.
@Martin,I like the David and Goliath analogy - a lot.@Jill, very well said. I think the concern expressed by the Nawab and CB is, just as you say, a concern this incident may be the harbinger of something much bigger.
An interesting aspect of the Count's attraction to Ahmed is found on pg.167. Although he is attracted, it is not good to confuse "the need with the policy" and Ahmed would be "sacrificed" if the policy was put in jeopardy. He is either a true politician or his loyalty to the Nawab is stronger than I supposed initially. My guess is that he has developed such a strong position in the state that nothing would alter his course of maintaining his position.
For the weeks of July 14th - July 20th, we are reading PART THREE ~ A Wedding, 1943 (144-170.) No spoilers.
The fifth week's reading assignment is:
WEEK FIVE- July 14th - July 20th
PART THREE - A Wedding. 1945 (144 - 170)
We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.
This book is being kicked off on June 16th.
We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle. Make sure to pre-order now if you haven't already. This weekly thread will be opened up on July 14th.
There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.
Jill will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Bentley.
Welcome,
~Bentley
TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL
REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.
Notes:
It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.
Citations:
If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.
If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how to cite books:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...
Introduction Thread:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
Table of Contents and Syllabus
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
Glossary
Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
Bibliography
There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...