21st Century Literature discussion
This topic is about
Sophie and the Sibyl
2017 Book Discussions
>
Sophie & the Sibyl - Background & General (no spoilers) (Sep 2017)
date
newest »
newest »
I'm glad to be reading this! Hallucinating Foucault is a big fave of mine. I have also met Patricia Duncker in 2009 and as a first impression I saw her as a soft spoken, yet tough lady. During a chat she told me that she thinks that book bloggers are ruining the reputation of critics. I wonder what are her impressions of booktubers!
Robert wrote: "During a chat she told me that she thinks that book bloggers are ruining the reputation of critics...."Thx for your post, Robert. What do you perceive Duncker meant by her comment? That book bloggers are closer to reader reactions? That they have different approaches to reading than critics? That they force critics away from being the marketing voices of publishers? That...??
Hugh -- I'd like to read this and join the conversation, but I haven't gotten the book and may not. I imagine all my accessible library copies are out. I have read enough Eliot (The Mill on the Floss, Silas Marner, parts of Middlemarch and Daniel Deronda ) to be interested. Yet, she is an author with whom I can become frustrated, one reason for the partial reads.
Lily wrote: "Robert wrote: "During a chat she told me that she thinks that book bloggers are ruining the reputation of critics...."Thx for your post, Robert. What do you perceive Duncker meant by her comment?..."
Good question! Yes I did ask her. She hinted that the critic is trained and has the background and book blogger isn't - at least that's how I understood it. Is Duncker right in this assumption? I'm not sure.
Mod
Robert wrote: "...She hinted that the critic is trained and has the background and book blogger isn't - at least that's how I understood it. Is Duncker right in this assumption? I'm not sure. ..."Thx, Robert. I suspect critics in general are trained, whereas bloggers run the gamut. Unfortunately, I have seen the best of critics (even had one fun correspondence) bend their judgement to not deflate marketing/sales of a book. I don't know what the financial pressures of the industry are, i.e., how they function.
Robert wrote: "I'm glad to be reading this! Hallucinating Foucault is a big fave of mine. I have also met Patricia Duncker in 2009 and as a first impression I saw her as a soft spoken, yet tough lady. During a ch..."That is so interesting--amateur versus professional, much like the debate about journalism. Maybe one scathing review from a popular blogger (who might just be on a personal rant) can really damage a book and even an author? Maybe we here on Goodreads aren't as likely to be swayed by one person (we could be considered the "experienced" end of the book-buying public), but something like that might have a big impact.
I have my copy of Sophie and am anxious to begin. Middlemarch turned me into an Eliot fan, so should be fun!
I've downloaded Sophie but have barely started reading. Looking forward to making more progress at the weekend and then joining you all next week.
Mod
Silas Marner
is currently being discussed on the Victorians! board.My library did have S&S in, at least this morning, so am going to try to pick it up this afternoon,
Mod
I read Hallucinating Foucault some time ago and enjoyed it. I read Daniel Deronda once and Middlemarch several times. It is undoubtedly one of the best novels of the 19th century. I would like to read Mill on the Floss, but haven't gotten round to it yet.I only read the first chapter of Sophie and Sibyl but immediately liked it -- lively and well written.
As for the discussion on review blogs, I read quite a few and discovered that publishers supply the novels in exchange for a "fair review." I don't think I've found one negative review but have learned to distinguish which novels I would like to read. As suggested, some blog reviewers are better than others. In fact, I can think of one who was actually a professional reviewer before creating her blog.
Mod
This is the first Patricia Duncker book I have ever read, and I have not read anything by George Elliot. I'm enjoying the prose and the characters, who oddly remind me of Ned Beauman's, except not, as a rule, as dissipated.I don't have much of an opinion of trained reviewers vs book bloggers.
I started reading this book for a task in another group, sometime last month. I had put it down for a bit because for one I was frustrated and two because it was a read for this group. I am almost finished with Part One so I will post my thoughts on that later today or tomorrow. This is the first book I have read by this author.
This is my first time reading Duncker and it definitely won't be the last. What a treasure. I'm thoroughly enjoying this book.
Mod
Lucian of Samosata -- is this the Lucian meant? (pp. 4-7, 114ff)
Casceil wrote: "I seem to be bogged down in part I. I keep meaning to get back to reading this book, but it seems like something else always grabs my attention first. I don't dislike the book. It just does not see..."Is this reviewer's closing comment perhaps applicable?
"Sophie and the Sybil digs deeper into the same theme, with intriguing arguments, but though often highly entertaining, ultimately it remains a novel that engages the intellect rather than the emotions." -- Stephanie Merritt
I have made it to page 114, but am finding myself more curious than strongly engaged at this point. I didn't really think about it until I saw your post, Casceil, because I've been quite tired when I've been trying to read.
Lily wrote: "Casceil wrote: "I seem to be bogged down in part I. I keep meaning to get back to reading this book, but it seems like something else always grabs my attention first. I don't dislike the book. It j..."Thanks for sharing that comment, Lily. I'm having the same experience, and that might be why.
I'm really interested in Max though, and of course in the Sibyl. It seems to me more because of the writing. It's like it is deliberately obscure, like she is trying to lose me with strange word choices and a jagged line of narrative that I can't really follow.
More likely much of it is just going over my head. :-)
Kathleen wrote: "More likely much of it is just going over my head. :-) ..."I'm still enjoying the wry innuendos, however. I rather "like" all, or at least "most of", the characters. Could it be translated into a clever movie? I think "yes."
I do find a number of the similes and metaphors jarring, even as others are sly, on the mark, or insightful. Not sure I can always define why any particular example hits me one way versus another.
Lily wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "More likely much of it is just going over my head. :-) ..."I'm still enjoying the wry innuendos, however. I rather "like" all, or at least "most of", the characters. Could it be ..."
A movie sounds perfect to me! Lots of clever banter, and seeing the expressions on Max's face would be fun.
Kathleen wrote: "...and seeing the expressions on Max's face would be fun. ...."And watching Sophie ride, gamble, dance (lose her frill, confuse the quadrille), astound Max, .... .;-)
Mod
It's on my tbr pile for sept - i've reading Number 11 and Borne simultaneously then the true history of the kelly gang then sophie....it will be read.
I need to pick this back up and finish it. I noticed in my last post I said I was going to comment, and forgot. I am marking this on today's list to be read so I can finish and comment.Sorry that I got behind, I am also pulling a full load this semester in college.
Mod
Casceil wrote: "Parts of the book are very entertaining. ..."I ended up reading it for those. They kept me going. Not interested in digging for the reality behind this book right now, but will certainly remember this one when one of George Eliot's novels reappears on the top of my TBR -- which one usually does very couple of years.
I've been debating with myself about what I thought about the character development -- were the characters well developed, was there good delineation between major and minor characters and how did the techniques the author used differ, did the growth (or lack thereof) of the characters make sense (especially Max's seeming eventual abandonment of his extreme playboy persona and the evolution of his relationships with his seer and his wife). What writer's tricks, skills, techniques did the author use? I became as interested in those as in the plot line and the anecdotes themselves.
Mod
Hugh wrote: "I should probably tried harder to keep this discussion going, but I must admit I have been rather distracted by trying to finish the Booker shortlist - Auster in particular is very time-consuming. ..."The book doesn't seem to have self generated much interest. I haven't checked whether all those who voted for it have commented. (I didn't vote.) If not, I hope they still will.
It's an easy book to get stalled on. Casceil and I have resorted to having her read from the book aloud on days we carpool to work. The books seems to work better that way. And more does seem happen in the second part than in the first.
Mod
We are still missing three but I won't name and shame...
Mod
Lol I'll read it 😊. After the true history of the kelly gang
Mod
Casceil wrote: "Reading aloud does make the book come alive more. There are funny bits scattered through the story. When I was reading silently, I noticed them and occasionally laughed. But reading out loud to Pet..."Casceil -- is there a character you are enjoying most? For me it was Max (and the scrapes he got himself into) and the effervescent Sophie. I heard the Sybil described as ugly a few too many times -- I got it, I knew it before I picked up the book. After awhile I sometimes felt as if I was being hit again by a cold, wet washcloth instead of useful information. Even if a sentence was added about a characteristic that charmed people and drew them into her enchanted circle. (Maybe "circle" isn't quite the right word, but I'm failing a better one this moment.)
Mod
Casceil wrote: "I like Sophie. She seems so spontaneous and high-spirited. Max just seems so clueless at times. But Max and Sophie are an interesting pair."Thx for the response, Casceil. It was the laughs Max provided that I enjoyed. But I agree with you about liking Sophie. (I imagined Duncker relishing creating and writing his character -- and probably Sophie's, too.)
Others, like Lewes and the Klesmers never emerged as clearly defined, identifiable characters for me, but more as emblems of certain ideas: the faithful husband, the Jewish "issue." On the other hand, among the minor characters, Max's brother Wolfgang and Sophie's parents, especially her father, developed into fairly real entities for me.
carissa wrote: I'm going to reread DD and a few bios and then give this book the attention it deserves...."I am becoming more and more skeptical of "the attention it deserves," the more I think about the book. I am feeling more and more that (re)reading George Eliot's novels and a decent bio of her life might be better use of one's time. Although I did enjoy reading this book as sort of escapism fiction (and am not sorry for the time used), I became more and more convinced that I might rather have Nabokov on Jane Austen (he disagreed heavily on her greatness) than Duncker on George Eliot as my (imaginary) teacher. At least Nabokov lays out his issues clearly.
Mod
Hugh wrote: "I think you are taking the book too seriously. It is essentially rather playful..."That's the level at which I enjoyed it.
Mod
carissa wrote: ... I didn't find her writing style playful at all. It was kinda clunky,..."I agree, carissa. That was my problem with it. The plot and ideas were playful, and I enjoyed that. Unfortunately the writing style didn't match.
For a "real" bio, I enjoyed My Life in Middlemarch, but for contrast, I'm anxious to read the Nabokov Lily mentions above. (Apparently he criticizes both Eliot and Austen.)
Mod
Mod
Kathleen wrote: "Apparently he criticizes both Eliot and Austen...."I don't recall whether Nabokov deals with Eliot -- a check on the TOC of his Lectures on Literature does not include her. (I am actually particularly fond of A.K. in his Lectures on Russian Literature ; he caused me to notice so much I would have overlooked without his guidance.)
Here I was attempting to compare how N. treated J.A. to how P.D. may treat G.E. in her classes. Partly my comments were honed by the "Afterward," where P.D. expresses some of her feelings towards George Eliot/Marion Evans Lewis. Also by a comment somewhere about how G.E. treats the characters in her novels, in reflection perhaps of some of M.E.L's real life attitudes towards women, to the extent the two conjoined persona can be separated for scrutiny.
21st Century Literature
Books mentioned in this topic
Lectures on Literature (other topics)Lectures on Russian Literature (other topics)
My Life in Middlemarch (other topics)
Silas Marner (other topics)
The Mill on the Floss (other topics)
More...
https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...
https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/bo...
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-ent...
It would be useful to know who is intending to participate. You can also use this space to discuss your previous experiences of Patricia Duncker and George Eliot.
I will start the spoiler threads later in the weekend, but I am at work and don't have the book with me today, and I need to refer to it to decide how to split it.