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The Underground Railroad
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ARCHIVE- SEPTEMBER 2017 - THE UNDERGROUND RAILROAD - DISCUSSION THREAD - (No Spoilers, Please)
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Jeff, in response to your message #45, I wonder if the "American imperative" drives race relations down to today in the sense that white America doesn't want to give up its ill-gotten "property", that is, its supremacy or privilege, so long as it can hold onto it. It often doesn't want to talk about reparations or redress for its treatment of African-Americans, because "If you can keep it, it is yours."
CC, you said, "I liked how Whitehead made you understand that cotton was just not enslaving blacks but also whites in some ways."I assume your referring to, "We're both of us working for Mr. Eli Whitney," on p. 76 of Chapter 3. In a sense every American down to today has been both hurt by and benefited from slavery. There's little doubt that unlimited land and unlimited (slave) labor built this country and its prosperity. In that sense, we're all of us working for Eli Whitney.
Absolutely, Matthew! (Message 52) I don't think they (we) will admit white privilege exists until its gone... Now I am on page 110 (Chapter 4, South Carolina), and (view spoiler) already free blacks are being marginalized and undervalued.
CC wrote: "I too, am unsure of how the railroad being an actual railroad...surprised that SC was written to be an understanding southern sate."This is a strange mix of bitter reality and well-written fantasy. Weird, but I kinda like it.
Hello everyone, Jono here ... After living in Florida for a few years I found my American History and insight left wanting. I had to grab the opportunity when I heard this book was on the reading list ... am more than half way and it is chillingly and painfully well written.
I have been exposed to my small share of racial discrimination, having grown up in South Africa. I still can't help but cringe as I read ... look forward to all you views.
I finished The underground railroad in two days because it is a very well written book. I am from Colombia so I don't know o too much about the USA history and I wanted to learn something new, but this book is very confusing. The underground railroad was not a real railroad, that much I know, but then is the rest of the book also fantasy? I read Uncle Tom's cabin when I was maybe ten years old, and The Warmth of other suns by Mrs Wilkenson, a couple of years ago , and they both impress me deeply. I am sad to say that Mr White head's book disappointed me because it taught me nothing.
Maria, there is a lot of magical realism in this book. The underground railroad is not a real railroad as you said, but there was a real network that helped slaves who had escaped. Colson Whitehead is showing events that happened, but playing around with time and location.In Chapter 4, black men are shown as subjects in a syphilis study. In the book it is South Carolina in the 1850s. In the actual Tuskegee Study, it was conducted as a federal project in Alabama between 1932 and 1972.
In Chapter 4, black women were coerced into a sterilization program. If you look back into history, this happened to people of color. But it also happened to immigrants, poor people, disabled people, unmarried mothers, and the mentally ill in many states. Eugenics programs were especially used in the early 20th Century.
Chapter 6: I read Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl by Harriet Jacobs several years ago. It was a true account of an escaped slave, and she hid in an attic for seven years. I can't remember the details of the book, but thought of her when reading about Cora in North Carolina.
I'm finding that I'm reading a chapter or two, then googling to find out more about the true events that the fiction is based upon.
I also loved The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America's Great Migration which was very well written.
by
Harriet Jacobs
by
Isabel Wilkerson
Connie, thank you for the additions about how history ties into the most recent chapters!While I wasn't surprised by the eugenics program introduced in chapter 4 (South Carolina), it was still horrifying to read. When the doctor treated her past rape as if it were equivalent to her having consensual sexual relations, I was caught of guard, no matter how I realistically I should have expected it. I was glad Cora's narration acknowledged what may have otherwise been a passed over moment.
I feel like there are plenty of stories about runaway slaves who hid in attics, basements, etc., but it was still jarring as Cora's time hidden away in the attic unfolded in chapter 6 (North Carolina).
What struck me most in chapter 6 was the reminder even freed slaves had to carry proof of their status, lest someone decide to enslave them again. Though not a historical anecdote, the main reason this unsettled me so much was how similar it sounded to the fact that my friend had to carry around all of her identity and visa documents when we were traveling around the US, even though she's been legally studying and working here on her visa for years. The thought that no amount of time can guarantee security stuck out in Cora's mention of the necessity for the freed slaves to carry their papers.
I'm looking forward to hopefully learning more about Ethel in the next reading assignment (I'm guessing we will since the next chapter is named after her), because I'd love to gain more insight into the reasons for the different ways the two are treating Cora during her time in their house.
Considering that Ethel had a view of the Friday night hangings from her front porch, it's not surprising that she would be very frightened and resent Cora's presence.
Chapters Ridgeway- North CarolinaOnce I got over the non-chronological order of actual history portrayed in this novel I was able to see the beauty of the intent. I think that the author is in a way removing the division of genre here to tell this tale. This is a blend of historical, literary and fantasy genres.
These four chapters deal with slavery linked to cotton production. The ramifications of a large slave population, the systemic demeaning of a people and the need for maintaining a perceived right. I like that Colson Whitehead links this to indentured workers, native Americans in a way that seeks to explain the complexity for life in modern America.
I was able to understand better the plight of the African-American. The influence of uprisings in the Caribbean and South America which resulted in a worsening of their conditions. That even those who present a utopian view, often still a prejudice and are willing to exploit you still. It makes you wonder who can you trust.
The incidents in South Carolina reflect partly why Blacks avoid health institutions. I remember when I first heard of the stealing of black bodies after burial and the "testing" for blood. And thought it was crazy talk or being overblown. None that I know that the stories are based on factual events, I understand why healthcare for blacks is so poorly administered and received.
Chapter 6 (North Carolina), p.145South Carolina in a nutshell: "It was still the south, and the devil had long nimble fingers. And then, after all the world had taught them, not to recognize chains when they were snapped to their wrists and ankles. The South Carolina chains were of new manufacture--the keys and tumblers marked by regional design--but accomplished the same purpose of chains. They had not traveled very far at all."
This reminds me of the imposition of Jim Crow laws after supposed freedom; and of a book I recently read, "Slavery by Another Name". A shell game akin to the one Cora and Caesar found themselves trapped in.
by
Douglas A. Blackmon
I like that Whitehead called out the nature of white racism toward blacks in this country: Fear. Maybe not fear of the vengeful reckoning that crosses Cora's mind, but fear of a way of life being overtaken by something else; of a heritage fading away. Or, as some dramatically announced recently, a fear of being replaced. Make peace with that possibility, and only then will you be without racial biases, in my opinion.EDIT: This is probably the basis of all racism throughout the world. People are afraid of being "erased."
Connie wrote: "I'm finding that I'm reading a chapter or two, then googling to find out more about the true events that the fiction is based upon..."A great idea! My attention span won't permit me to do that though--I will have to set aside some time after finishing the book, I think. Please share any links you find most interesting!
Historical fiction is a redundant term. Discuss.
Matthew wrote: "Historical fiction is a redundant term. Discuss."Are you playing the devil's advocate, Matthew? :-)
I don't think it's a redundant term in most cases. Historical fiction is set in the past, and conveys some true characteristics about the time period or historical event. So the term lets us know that the book is not set in contemporary times, and the book will transport us to the past. Historical fiction will not be as accurate as a nonfiction book when it comes to facts, but it can be a wonderful way to convey the emotions and struggles of individuals that have been touched by historical events. Dialogue is great for showing economic, educational, or social class differences, such as in a British comedy of manners, or the slave/master dialogue in The Underground Railroad.
The Underground Railroad is an interesting case. It's set in the past and tells us about the type of events that happened in that period of history. However the style of the book seems very creative and fresh. June expressed it very well in her comment when she called the book a combination of historical, literary, and fantasy genres.
I don't think Matthew is being a devil's advocate. It is the new thing in history circles. The only truth we really know are the dates and what happened. But the true reason behind the actions have been told from the conqueror point of view. And this would be biased obviously. The vanquished usually have no say, whether due to being decimated or having no voice( can be due to language barriers or illiteracy). The illustration which comes to mind is a Facebook video post I saw recently. An adult gave three young boys a video cassette and asked them how it worked. The results were hilarious and so wrong. The only context the boys had was iPod. And this made me think that we often base our assumptions on our current circumstances and culture. And like the boys who wanted to press a button, or turn the two spokes or find the on switch, we can come up with scenarios that are far from reality.
For the purist however, the genre is a reminder that the narrative is most likely improbable. Which is funny when you think how annoyed we can get when the author takes liberty with the true events.
There is often enough of a record to make safe assumptions about the reason things happened, although it will never apply to everyone. But there are trends, patterns, agendas, etc., on which to base our ideas about the past. To say that historical fiction is redundant sounds like one is saying history IS fiction, which is a self-fulfilling way to apply "fake news" retroactively. We have to believe in something, and the bulk of evidence should be sufficient to form a context, yet not keep us from asking questions.
Correct! All of you.Reasons I wrote the statement:
1. Just to be a troll and start an argument.
2. Because I have only read a handful of historical fiction in my life, a lot of fiction/fantasy/science fiction as a child, but virtually none as an adult, as compared to hundreds of history books, I'm just not real familiar with this genre and am trying to wrap my mind around it. I really enjoyed the first three chapters. But the latest, 4-6, left me empty.
3. And yes, Jeff, I was wondering if all "history" which should always strive to be the non-fiction truth, never makes it to that mark (truth), because we all wear whatever spectacles we happen to bring to the table. Much like some of the latest trends in history writing which deal with historical "memory". I find the concept of memory very intriguing. How do we approach a historical topic? How does our approach affect what we write and how we interpret what others have written? I liked your last sentence, Jeff.
Matthew wrote: "Just to be a troll and start an argument."LOL well done! I think the more we read/observe, from a variety of trustworthy sources, the more accurate account of history we have. I am reading a bio of each US president, and if I had time I would read multiple bios on each, from different authors. That would be the best way to go, but I am learning a lot anyway, just taking some of it with a grain of salt.
As the for book, I am now a week ahead, and I think you will find (or already found) chapters 7-9 more intriguing, as I did. [Vague spolier ahead] (view spoiler)
In 4-6, the theme has been established that Cora is still not free, in any state so far. Fast forward 160 years, and I think we're still working on it...
When I read this book - a few months ago - I began feeling very disoriented once I hit the South Carolina chapter. Sure, reading the bit about the underground-railroad-as-a-subway was a big hint that Whitehead is not interested in recreating history. But I took it as a kind of science fiction twist in the middle of a historical novel.Then, South Carolina, and I was perplexed, thinking - was it possible that in the 1830's, South Carolina briefly toyed with ending slavery? South Carolina, which IIRC, had a higher percentage of slaves in its population than any other slave state? But then I reached the part discussing syphilis and realized Whitehead is conflating many historical moments....so far, all of them pretty awful.
The South Carolina portion deals more with eugenics program done in the 1930s, not only aimed at blacks. But also deals with unethical practices of Tuskegee. So Whitehead messes here with chronological history but mashing in later periods within the narrative.
I agree. He certainly erases and redraws some lines, but are we talking about the right things? Is it the where and when that really matters, or the what and why? I take the point to be that the entire timeline of blacks in America is a single thing, and at any point on it you might choose, there can be found a "pretty awful historical moment," as Mary Ellen said.
Jeff, I guess I don't think there is a hard rule about what "the right things to talk about" are...But for myself, after my initial disorientation (my expectation that a historical novel - a label I imposed on the book & Whitehead may have had no interest in - not be ahistorical, having been upended) I then questioned, why has he written it as he did? Your suggestion is a powerful one: that all of it: slavery, Jim Crow, de facto segregation, lynching, on & on ...is of a piece, interconnected, and that any one "moment" is not best understood in isolation.
Matthew wrote: "I really enjoyed the first three chapters. But the latest, 4-6, left we empty."I had kind of the same experience and I do read a lot of historical fiction. It was like I was looking at the train instead of being on the train with Cora.
I like historical fiction because you experience historical events through the eyes of (fictional) people who could have lived during those events. It gives me an insight in what life was like, what people might have thought, what inspired them and why events might have happened.
O, and thanks to Connie, for looking up the true events the fiction is based on. That is a great help in understanding the book.
Alright, about Ethel.P. 193, Chapter 7 (Ethel):
"Where are you going, Father?" she asked one night...Jasmine was fourteen.
"Going upstairs," he said, and they both experienced strange relief now that they had a term for his nocturnal visits.
...Her mother held a low opinion about her husband going upstairs...
As with chapters 4-6, chapters 7-9 didn't really move the needle for me either. I can't shake the feeling that I'm wasting time not reading "flat out" history, but that's not really what I want to talk about.
"Going upstairs."
Here's a quote from page 269 of a book I recently read, The Politics of Taste in Antebellum Charleston by Maurie D. McInnis.
"As the Charleston abolitionist Sarah Grimke noted, 'the virtue of female slaves is wholly at the mercy of irresponsible tyrants, and women are bought and sold in our slave markets, to gratify the brutal lust of those who bear the name of Christians.' Mary Chesnut astutely noted the prevalence of the practice and the self-denial practiced by the men's wives, as each 'is ready to tell you who is the father of all the mulatto children in everybody's household but her own.'"
Can you imagine how often this went on? How slavery must have appealed to the prurient interest of masters and their children! This is the aspect of slavery that in my adult years has most honed my enmity toward slavery. The violence, the whippings, the killings and the slave ships were something we all grew up learning about in school. But my teachers never talked about the sexual barbarity of it all, although I'm pretty sure as teenage students we could have handled it. I find it despicable that the sexual aspect of slavery was never explicitly taught. Needless to say, I should have imagined what went on, but if the teachers you respect aren't "going there," I think it tends to further brush the subject under the rug.
The quote above from Mary Chesnut really struck me. Can you imagine the self-denial wives had to go through just to live, just to get by, just to be able to handle their husbands' "going upstairs"? I actually find it hard to have a lot of sympathy for the wives, since they were themselves perpetuating the slave society, but I think it is just one more way slavery debased American society.
What do you all think of this theory I have pondered? I live in the deep South. In my job I deal with sexual molestation cases within families every day. Sometimes I wonder whether hundreds of years of immorality in the South reaches down to us today. When the slaves were abruptly freed 150 years ago, where did this leave men who had spent generations and decades of their own lives having their way with slave women? Where did those habits turn? I am sure in many cases those habits turned inward to their own families and extended families. 150 years gone by is not many generations. Moral habits die hard. Morality is carried on through cultures through observation and through acceptance and turning of a blind eye. What's good for the old man is good for the young boy... Certainly molestation is a plague around the world and in all cultures, but I just wonder. I just wonder that the sexual costs of slavery will never be fully tallied in America.
by
Maurie D. McInnis
Matthew wrote: "What do you all think of this theory...?"I wouldn't be too hard on your teachers. The violence was enough for me to learn then, and the rest I am content with having learned at a later time. Imagine the controversy if that were taught to kids today!
I wouldn't be too hard on those wives, either. It was a very different time--what was a woman to do? To confront a husband would possibly bring his wrath, and to seek support from others would be to invite scandal upon yourself socially, and blame for not being able to satisfy your husband. In a way, a wife of a predatory slaveowner was herself a slave to the circumstances and the time. That doesn't excuse their complicity, but it should put it in perspective.
As for the sexual urges left unfulfilled by emancipation, I would like to think the question is not as serious as you propose. Doesn't removing temptation count for something? Today the absence of an enslaved victim may be replaced by extramarital affairs, prostitutes, pornography, and yes, the things you mention. And we know sexual slavery still exists in the world. But many more obstacles to deviance exist today, and marital relationships have changed dramatically.
On a related subject, for an introductory look at the relationship between Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings, I read Jon Meacham's Thomas Jefferson: The Art of Power. There was a moment when Sally held the power over him, when she refused to leave Paris with him to return to America: "[H]ere was a girl basically the same age as his own eldest daughter refusing to take her docile part in the long-running drama of the sexual domination of enslaved women by their white masters." It also discusses the awkwardness families faced when some of their slave children looked a little too much like the patriarch--Jefferson included.
by Jon Meacham
@Jeff and Mary EllenThe aim here is the how and why for this narrative especially in light of race relations today. But the non chronological narrative takes some getting used to, plus you need to research or have some knowledge to fully understand what is happening in each section.
@Matthew, I have been aware of the sexual aspect of slavery. But I suspect that most wives didn’t have the power- social, economic to make the difference in stemming the abuses. But whether, slavery is responsible for abuses seen in modern times. I’m not convinced.
@JuneAbsolutely. I would not recommend this book to someone new to the subject.
In Chapter 9, we see Caesar secretly reading a book, and hiding it when he is done. Some slaves and free blacks learned to read in earlier times as part of their religious education so they could read the Bible. But after abolitionist pamphlets began to be distributed, and Nat Turner's slave rebellion in 1931, many states passed anti-literacy laws. Writing was even more prohibited since slaves could forge passes.From Wikipedia's article on anti-literacy laws:
William M. Banks wrote in Black Intellectuals:
"Literacy also threatened the control and surveillance network for slaves in the South. Concern about runaways prompted slaveholders to require passes for all slaves traveling unaccompanied off the plantation. Literate slaves, however, could forge the necessary papers and escape to the North (few white patrollers could read well enough to verify the documents). Many slaves who learned to write did indeed achieve freedom by this method. The wanted posters for runaways often mentioned whether the escapee could write. ...some slaveholders tolerated slave literacy. Others ignored the statutes for economic reasons, realizing that literate slaves could handle record keeping and business transactions, and thus increase the profits and leisure time of the planter class. The prohibitions were also ignored by pious masters who wanted their slaves to read the Bible. And there are numerous accounts of planter children enjoying "playing school" and teaching their slave playmates the rudiments of literacy."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-li...
Over 50 whites were killed during the Nat Turner's slave rebellion, and fear led to laws prohibiting education of slaves and free blacks, restricting rights of assembly, and requiring white ministers to be present at religious services.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Tur...
Connie wrote: "Chapter 6: I read Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl by Harriet Jacobs several years ago. It was a true account of an escaped slave, and she hid in an attic for seven years. I can't remember the details of the book, but thought of her when reading about Cora in North Carolina."I thought of this account as well, Connie. Harriet Jacobs' story also takes place in North Carolina. I wonder if Whitehead had this in mind when he wrote of Cora's experience in Chapter 6.
I was initially a bit thrown off by the inserted chapters focusing on the individual character's lives, but now I have come to appreciate them as having a deeper purpose. These small snapshots give us an idea of how different individuals came to make certain life choices. While it doesn't excuse the behavior or the choice (such as in the case of Ridgeway), it does help the reader understand the reasons behind a decision.
Though the Freedom Trail is a fictional conjuring, the idea of such a vast display is horrifying. While some of his fictional liberties are a bit fantastical, I believe Whitehead's use of the extreme in this case was incredibly effective. It was common throughout the South to witness lynchings and to observe bodies left behind as "examples." I'd imagine one would almost become desensitized by such frequent displays. However, to see miles of bodies is a scene one simply could not ignore. Even just reading these words and picturing the sight left me disgusted, angry, and heartbroken.
by
Harriet Jacobs
Dusty, I thinking that the author wants to remind us that there have been centuries of prejudice and atrocities committed against people of color. I'm white, but I would imagine that some very terrible stories have been handed down through the generations in African-American families. The feeling that "Black Lives Matter" is nothing new to the African-American community.
Hi! I'm Sera. I live in the Western suburbs of Philadelphia.I'm reading this book because I want to get a different perspective on the underground railroad. The early chapters of the book are disturbing, but realistic. I finished the book earlier in the week so I'll be careful in minding my ps and qs with the spoiler etiquette. No one's really posted anything about the book in the spoiler thread yet.
I was particularly struck by the chapter on Ethel. I had often heard about the relations between masters and their female slaves and was naturally disgusted by these stories. However, I don't believe I have ever even thought to view the situation from the perspective of the master's wife. I find myself with a mixture of conflicting emotions.Yes, women did aid in maintaining the slave society and were often found to treat slaves just as poorly as the master and the overseer. Women, however, had very little power during this time. They often had no voice against their husbands' relations with his mistresses.
It is difficult to even imagine life in such a situation, and the emotions it creates are a mixture of sympathy and anger. I believe this book is just barely scratching the surface of so many additional issues that were prevalent during this time.
I'm Brett and I live in Arizona. I just started the book. I got behind last month due to previous book club commitments. But I am 100 pages in and I feel like I will get through the book pretty quickly. To me it feels like the author is very matter of fact when it comes to the abuse slaves had to deal with. I didn't feel like there was a lot of detail. It was very here it is; this is what happened and then he moves on. I'm not saying we need the detail or that the detail should be there, but it is different from other books I have seen when discussing slavery. I am use to the graphic, and this book almost leaves it up the readers imagination which can be just as bad.
One can't help but admire Cora's courage and strength through so much adversity. Though the book leaves her story unfinished, I'd like to believe that she found security and stability down that road to the West.I was glad the author chose to tell Mabel's story, and what a tragedy! It was definitely an outcome I was not expecting. Her story makes me want to know more about the lives of other characters. What happened to them? Did they survive? The author leaves a lot of questions unanswered, but I believe the desired effect was to let the reader draw his or her own conclusions.
Overall, I found the book to be well-written, and despite the heavy subject matter, very easy to read. In the end, while I was skeptical over the railroad being portrayed as a literal method of transportation, I honestly don't feel as though this distracted from the story.
I found it to be more than adequately detailed. It turned common stories into savage realities. I, too, was glad we heard what became of Mabel, and saddened that it didn't work out better. (view spoiler)
I'm currently only halfway done with the novel but I have been tremendously impressed upon by the descriptions in this book. The lynching, whipping, reference to the Tuskegee experiment, and language used in the novel are shocking and horrifying. I was not ignorant of our countries past when I started reading this novel but when I read a fictional book I catch a glimpse of the main characters emotions, empathize with them, and try to feel what they are feeling. Before reading this novel I was disgusted by Americas past and now I am ashamed and nauseous. Whitehead turned the atrocities of our past into an emotional experience instead of simple facts that are recited from a textbook.
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The History Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl (other topics)Thomas Jefferson: The Art of Power (other topics)
The Politics of Taste in Antebellum Charleston (other topics)
The Underground Railroad (other topics)
Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Harriet Ann Jacobs (other topics)Jon Meacham (other topics)
Maurie D. McInnis (other topics)
Douglas A. Blackmon (other topics)
Harriet Ann Jacobs (other topics)
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"Two white men in two days had their hands around her. Was this a condition of her freedom?"
One white man, the 12-year-old boy, was trying to recapture her and send her back to her old life. One white man, Fletcher, was trying to send her along the railroad to a new life of freedom. Yet, given what white men had done to her and her fellow slaves her whole life, all she knew was to be afraid and detest the touch of a white man, even a well-meaning hug. The brand of slavery is deep and permanent. Can you imagine all the "unintended" ways generations of African-Americans to the present day carry the brand of slavery? Is it any wonder some may distrust whites? How long does it take to erase a deep and permanent scar? And, worst of all, the Federal Govt's abandonment of Reconstruction after the Civil War and the white South's implementation of Jim Crow Laws served to only drive the brand of slavery and mistrust deeper. "Here you are, here's your freedom...oh, wait, on second thought...not yet..."
Slavery is America's self-inflicted, thousand-year wound. We went into the Union in 1789 with eyes wide open regarding slavery, and now white America would despise the mistrust of African-Americans and say, "That was fifty years ago, that was a 150 years ago, just get over it." How easy for white America to say.