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Discussion: No One Is Coming To Save Us
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ColumbusReads
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Sep 10, 2017 12:04PM
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Columbus wrote: "I like Sylvia's sister, Lana, as well. She breaks up the tension and brings some comedy relief when necessary. The organic nature of the relationship and Watts writing is refreshing -- Sylvia/Lana ..."I like Lana also.
jo wrote: "not getting me this far. should i stick it out?"Are you still reading it. jo? I am past the first 100 pages and am still struggling with it.
So it's been repeatedly said that Pinewood is a small town where everyone knows everybody's business but yet Ava nor Sylvia knew that her husband had a child, with a White women no less, for five years! A woman who worked at the only restaurant in town and was completely disowned by her family. Yet none of this info got back to either of them even though Ava worked in the towns bank and Sylvia was if nothing else a busy body? Some parts of the book work for me and others not. I dread most chapters written in Sylvia's voice...perhaps she suffers from depression and it rubs off.
William wrote: "So it's been repeatedly said that Pinewood is a small town where everyone knows everybody's business but yet Ava nor Sylvia knew that her husband had a child, with a White women no less, for five y..."Yes, Sylvia is a downer and does not seem happy about everything but there are people like that.
Yes, I thought that it was a little strange that others did not hear the rumors about Henry and Carrie (and the little boy). I thought if anyone knew anyone knew anything it would be Lena and she seems to be in tune in what was going on.
But then I let it go - Henry it seems messed around with women and they always came on to him. Ava seems to know this and she did not have any friends.
JJ (Jay) keeps seeming more and more like a stalker to me.First - Sylvia catches him standing in her yard.
Then he follows Henry when he goes to meet up with Carrie - seems to be following and not quite sure where he is going - down the road in the dark to what seems like an isolated place.
Mod
First - Sylvia catches him standing in her yard.
Then he follows Henry when he goes to meet up with Carrie - seems to be following and n..."
Beverly, I don't recall you mentioning whether you read Gatsby or not.
Some of the characteristics or strange behaviors of JJ (jay) are similar to Gatsby. In the book, he was sort of aloof, mysterious, especially in the beginning where he was mentioned but wasn't introduced until a couple of chapters in the book. Still, I would've never realized this was even loosely based on that book if no one told me. I read Gattsby twice.
Beverly I keep thinking about the way his house is situated and how he comments how he can see everything from it. It must be a foreshadowing of something to come. Also the description of Carries's son being called a " pretty boy" is there something relevant there?
This book for me definitely has it moments I get draw in and then kind of bored until it picks up again. JJ's arrival should be interesting and his comment about not coming to start trouble has me worried.
Columbus wrote: "Beverly wrote: "JJ (Jay) keeps seeming more and more like a stalker to me.First - Sylvia catches him standing in her yard.
Then he follows Henry when he goes to meet up with Carrie - seems to be..."
I have not read nor seen the film about Gatsby.
I do know the ending and some of the other things about Gatsby.
It seems the author has said there are allusions to Gatsby which I take as different than say it is a retelling of Gatsby.
So I can understand that if you did not read Gatsby you would not know the connection.
While I have not read the Gatsby - here are a couple of things that I think are the "allusions" - you can let me know where I am wrong.
- the name JJ (Jay)
- JJ being an "outcast"
- JJ wants to win back his love
- His love is now married and her husband has relationship with another woman
I have not finished the book yet so do not know what is going to happen - thought there is the potential for several twists and for things to go awry.
Rebecca wrote: "Beverly I keep thinking about the way his house is situated and how he comments how he can see everything from it. It must be a foreshadowing of something to come. Also the description of Carries..."
JJ has been away from the town and is now back - stating this where he belongs but the town has changed since he left.
We still do not know why he left.
The town is going through what a lot of other rural town is going through - mostly losing their economic base which affects the people - no income.
He is really not "connected" to the town and he comes back "rich" - we are not sure how or how much at this point, other than JJ saying he is only one house rich.
There has to be some resentment that he is using "Mexican" workers instead of AA workers in this economically depressed area. I thought probably he did not want any details of himself or house out there until he makes his moves.
I read Gatsby twice, and never really got what was so "great" about it or him. Rebecca mentions being bored with parts of the Watts book, and I think that's my chief memory of Gatsby, i.e. boredom. I am through 14 chapters, and it seems that much of the excitement, if you can call it that, happened in the past. For example, Ava and JJ had an affair in their youth. Sylvia threw a knife at Don. Henry has a second family, and Don does too, but so far, no one is getting fired up about it. This does seem to be a set up for JJ to stir the pot.
I went ahead and purchased the book and am through Chapter 10. I wanted to weigh in before catching up. I am enjoying the reading so far. I am a fan of retellings because I love seeing the connections an author makes to the original. I don't go into it expecting a blow by blow repetition of the same story and I tend to favor more esoteric connections. So far the connection as I see it is simply the building of the house and the mystery of who JJ has become. The fact that he mentions in chapter 10 that he can see Sylvia's house but she can't see his is Gatsby-like. I am also curious to see where Sylvia's story goes and fill in the details as the book continues. Back to the book!
Rebecca wrote: "Beverly I keep thinking about the way his house is situated and how he comments how he can see everything from it. It must be a foreshadowing of something to come. Also the description of Carries..."
I agree that tension is building - and JJ is definitely not there to be a calming presence.
After all - JJ says he just wants to be happy and that there has always been something between him and Ava and he is back for her - a married woman!
As for the "pretty boy" comment - I think Ava got up close to the boy so she could get a better look at the boy - to see if she saw Henry in the boy's features.
I agree that readers rating the book lower because it doesn't follow The Great Gatsby more closely are missing their chance to enjoy a book for its own merits. The Gatsby allusions are just that --- a nuanced concept about a character seeking the monetary success of the American Dream. It's also in a way a manipulation of the dream. Jay (Gatsby and JJ) think they deserve to get what they want and are "faulty thinkers" and anti-heroes.I like that the tension builds through the course of the book and that we leave characters for a while and wonder what they are doing and wait for their mysteries to unfold. The writing is quite good and I enjoyed reading the quotes you posted, Beverly. I loved the food descriptions, too. I've experienced a few lulls in the book, but not too many.
I'm looking forward to getting back into the book and to reading the comments here.
Now Open for Discussion - Chapters 21-31 (Pages 196 - 283)Please feel free to make comments, ask questions, quote passages, etc.
Here is an interview with Stephanie Powell Watts from BookPage.(There are some storyline spoilers in this interview)
http://bookpage.com/interviews/21148-...
At this point in the story we have meet the characters, learned what their "dreams" are/were and how they have dealt with the ups and downs in their lives.Has any part of the story or character given you pause?
Which scene did you not expect to happen or caught you off guard?
Wholly unrelated to the Gatsby comparisons, which apparently are an issue for some . . . Is this book really difficult to get in to, or is it just me? I'm finding it insufferably boring and can't seem to will myself to pick it up and move forward. Am I alone in this? Or, are there others who likewise aren't enjoying this one very much?
The part for me is when Lana tells Sylvia about what is going on with Ava. Sylvia truly didn't know and her coming to the realization was so sad to me. Carrie, I can see why she went crazy like she did but I didn't see it coming.
Kimberly the characters are suppose to be shallow and superficial in The Great Gastsby. Watts has done well in creating that in her book.
I keep reading that is about an African American experience I have no idea what that is like nor can I relate to it. I wonder if that is partly why I am struggling.
“One of the things I wanted to write about was difficult mothers and daughters. But I wanted to write about loving difficult mothers and daughters,” Watts says of Sylvia and Ava.
This is interesting to me because no where can I find elsewhere that the book was about this.
"One way Watts leads the reader to feel empathy toward her characters, even though we may not always like them, is through an inspired shifting and intermingling of points of view".
Which has annoyed me. Just when I started. To feel for Lana and Sylvia's moment we are back to Devon. For me it's been back and forth very scattered though.
Kimberly wrote: "Is this book really difficult to get in to, or is it just me? I'm finding it insufferably boring and can't..."It's not just you. Yes, it bores me to sleep.
Mod
It's not just you. Yes, it bores me to sleep."
That's the wild and truly wonderful things about books. I thought I would struggle with having to finish 175 pages in a day in a half to get it back to the library on time. But, the language just flowed for me and I thought it was truly wonderful. Thought others would've felt the same, but, nope. I still had some issues with it but it didn't ruin the story for me.. On the other hand, Sing, Unburied, Sing is getting universal praise from everyone it seems. I read it several months ago and like Salvage the Bones didn't care for it at all. Strange how those things are.
I am actually going to finish the book today. Interesting I am going to read Sing, Unburied, Sing since the library purchased it from my request. Now I am really curious Columbus. Debut novels for me are hit or miss lately.
I have many sticky notes as I am finding the language/phrasing to be very good and feel that I am enjoying this aspect of the book.But there is something missing for me that I can't quite put my finger on.
Once I put down the book I am not anxious to pick it back up.
I am anxious to see how the various story threads resolve themselves.
As I was reading often times I thought about Edward Kelsey Moore writing style and how I like he brings his characters to life.
I definitely like Stephanie Powell Watts short story collection - We Are Taking Only What We Need: Stories better. This short story collection is being reissued in Feb. 2018.
Columbus wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Kimberly wrote: "Is this book really difficult to get in to, or is it just me? I'm finding it insufferably boring and can't..."It's not just you. Yes, it bores me to sleep."
I still had some issues with it but it didn't ruin the story for me.. On the other hand, Sing, Unburied, Sing is getting universal praise from everyone it seems."
I just picked up Sing, Unburied, Sing and I'm loving it already.
Mod
It's not just you. Yes, it bores me t..."
That's exactly the response I got from friends throughout every part of this book. The momentum just built until the end. Ward would appear to be an author I should enjoy but.....
I think the language use in the book is a strength. I even read a quote to my husband, which I rarely do. (p246 about homes - we've been remodeling and hosted our son's wedding over the summer).I find that I like it best when I stick with it for a while and catch up to all of the characters' stories - it feels more unified that way. Beverly asked:
Which scene did you not expect to happen or caught you off guard?
There's been a lot of foreshadowing about what happened to Devon, but that scene from his past still took me by surprise in the way it was told. I'm wondering if there is more to it than has been revealed so far.
Karen Michele wrote: "I think the language use in the book is a strength. I even read a quote to my husband, which I rarely do. (p246 about homes - we've been remodeling and hosted our son's wedding over the summer).I..."
For me, I agree the language is its strength of this book.
I too was surprised where the Devon storyline was inserted.
I was glad that we were finally getting to hear from him and based on the phone call that Sylvia was calling Devon.
So that was a little bit of a shock.
It did help to understand Sylvia and Don better and the nature of their "relationship".
I'd have to say when you boil it all down, for the first 250 pages or so, not a whole lot really happens. I would change the name to A Life Most Ordinary. It feels like I'm spending the summer in a trailer park. There's nothing particularly wrong with the characters and I enjoy reading Lana's dialogue in particular. Maybe something extraordinary will happen in the last part or so I hope anyway, but at the moment, this JJ-Gatsby isn't great at all, more peculiar-like.
I finally caught up! I agree that these characters are leading very ordinary, very messy lives, but I am someone who loved The Great Gatsby and those characters weren't accomplishing great things either. They just had money. In this book that veneer of wealth and privilege is absent, so we just see the messiness. In TGG, part of what was compelling for those of us who read it long after it was written was the knowledge that their shallow, over-privileged lives would come crashing down within a few years. In this book, economic disaster has already hit and the characters are living through the wreckage of the economy as well as the messiness of their own lives. In both books, everyone is drowning in secrets. I liked the first 3/4 of this book a lot.
there are things about it that I like, but I tend to dull out at times. Certainly there is no veneer or vestige of wealth to be seen here.
Entire book is now open for discussion How did you feel once the story ended?
Was this the ending you were expecting? Why/Why not
What do you think was the moral/message/lesson of the story?
If you read this story at a different time in your life, would it have read differently to you?
Did you have any epiphanies while reading this story?
Probably it's just me but I hate ghosts...no, I don't believe in ghosts. So I was through when I found out that Devon was a ghost. I hate when authors spend their literary capital talking to ghosts..I feel as if I have been fleeced. But for some reason they continue to do it and get awards for it so it must just be me. But how weird was Devon when he was alive? Walking aimlessly for miles...ending up at a truck stop and announcing to the clerk that "I'm sad". The whole character and story around Devon was nebulous and unfocused to me. While I could feel the pain his demise caused and Sylvia's and others reactions and why they acted the way they did in light of it, the story never gelled into a cohesive whole.
I didn't think that Devon was a ghost - I just thought that his mother was imagining him to still be alive. I wondered whether the author was portraying Devon as a person on the Autism spectrum, but perhaps undiagnosed, as many people in small southern towns might not be.I am tired of ghosts also, Bill.
Wilhelmina wrote: "I didn't think that Devon was a ghost - I just thought that his mother was imagining him to still be alive. I wondered whether the author was portraying Devon as a person on the Autism spectrum, bu..."I agree as I did not think of Devon as a ghost and the Devon chapter certainly pointed being on the Autism spectrum.
I also I thought the book also pointed to Sylvia not getting any help with dealing with her grief (or the rest of the family).
I see ghosts as memories/the past and I guess I am okay with ghosts if it fits the story.
So I thought a little about how I felt about this book - worked for me and what didn't work for me.I definitely liked her short story collection We Are Taking Only What We Need.
I would read future work by this author.
Themes of love, dreams, nurturing, and adapting are wrapped up in this deliberate and bittersweet tale.
The lyrical and meditative language provides the grace and dignity to the “ordinariness” of these everyday characters as they seek their place and happiness in the contemporary rural south.
Much does not seem to happen but I thought this allowed to showcase the turmoil within each of the characters that often belies their public facing selves.
Tightly focusing on a specific African-American family we can feel the stifling power of time, place, and race to smother hope and the pathway to the American Dreams. The ray of hope is someone being there for you, knowing you better than you know yourself,
“There is an instinct to hide, and against our better thinking we find the darkest place to squeeze ourselves into. Someone has to be able to find you on those days.”
The ending wraps up a little too neatly for me as the characters all seemed to come to their knowing the honestly of themselves, the past, and what they needed to move forward at the same time.
It was the graceful language and striking emotional geography that kept me reading as the characters often fell flat for me.
Wilhelmina wrote: "I didn't think that Devon was a ghost - I just thought that his mother was imagining him to still be alive. I wondered whether the author was portraying Devon as a person on the Autism spectrum, bu..."Sylvia talks to Devon on the phone a couple times and he answers...if eerily and circumspect...Sylvia talks to Marcus about Devon in the present tense. We find out later that he has been long dead. Makes him a ghost in my book.
As close as I ever hope to come to one, anyway.
Kimberly wrote: "Wholly unrelated to the Gatsby comparisons, which apparently are an issue for some . . . Is this book really difficult to get in to, or is it just me? I'm finding it insufferably boring and can't..."
I agree about it being insufferably boring. I usually try to to read at least 1/4 of a book before I give up on it (a lot of gems start off on the wrong foot) but this one was too boring to even do that. I gave up around 50 pages in. Surprised that it's recieved such high praise in reviews.
I'm guessing I might try it another time when my reading list slows down.
Bernie wrote: "Anyone started the book?I am up to chapter 10. I like what I have read so far."
Didn't mesh with me. The story sounded interesting but the style of writing got in its own way...
Mod
I gave this book a three star rating for a couple of reasons: One, I couldn’t expel the Gatsby connection from my mind while reading it and Gatsby is a classic that I’m most familiar with. Two, I didn’t think enough attention or backstory was given to several of the characters. I wanted a more comprehensive and thorough examination of JJ and Ava’s history and why this relationship “should” have been so special. And, I thought the Devon reveal was rather anti-climatic and lackluster. I didn’t at all think ghost while reading it in the (Sing, Unburied, Sing or The Turner House) ghost sense, but I thought the handling of this important character left much to be desired.
I still enjoyed the book very much and would have considered recommending it before reading some of the responses here. Some of the type of readers here who gave it poor or semi-poor ratings are exactly the type of readers who I would generally recommend it to. So, nah, maybe not.
Mod
Columbus wrote: "Another thing I couldn’t get out of my mind while reading this book and contributed to why I enjoyed it so much. In interviews Watts talks about growing up in Lorain, NC and how this town in this s..."I agree that a strength of this novel evoking rural small town NC.
Glad some of the scenes made you smile about your memories of the area.
Columbus wrote: "Here’s one where I’m actually in lockstep with book critics over many readers for a change. I really enjoy Watts writing and loved the storytelling in this book as well as her short story collectio..."I'm glad you found familiarity in it. I live in N.C., albeit in the "big City" of Raleigh, and I grew up in the military town of Jacksonville (Camp LeJeune). Nothing about this book resonated with me, unfortunately, and I was looking for markers unique to the Tarheel state. Perhaps I'll need to circle back with it another time and give it more space to unfold. I was so bored with it by page 100, that I never did finish it. Will give it another go, and try to envision places like Richlands, and Beulaville, and Henderson and Roxboro as I read it.
I did appreciate that Powell "didn't go there", in the case of Devon. That something terrible happened to Devon was foreshadowed in most of the book and when he went to the truck stop I was sure that this was where it was gonna happen. When he befriended the truck driver I was almost positive that here was another book with a villainous, predatory Black man. Surely he would end up sexually abusing young Devon. That he actually helped him, fed him, called his mother and stuck around till he was safe was an unexpected and surprising gem in the story.
Thanks to all that participated in this discussion.This thread will remain up and available for thoughts and questions.
Thanks much and Namaste.
Mod
Literary Fiction by People of Color
Books mentioned in this topic
We Are Taking Only What We Need (other topics)We Are Taking Only What We Need: Stories (other topics)
Sing, Unburied, Sing (other topics)
Salvage the Bones (other topics)
No One Is Coming to Save Us (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Edward Kelsey Moore (other topics)Stephanie Powell Watts (other topics)
Stephanie Powell Watts (other topics)
Stephanie Powell Watts (other topics)
Stephanie Powell Watts (other topics)
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