Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion
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Discussion: No One Is Coming To Save Us
Hi Everyone -I am hoping you will be joining our discussion on No One Is Coming to Save Us.
Listed below is our reading/discussion schedule.
Over the next couple of days I will providing some background information on the book and the author - Stephanie Powell Watts.
Sept 5 - Sept 9 Chps 1 - 10 (p. 1 - 102)
Sept 10 - Sept 16 Chps 11 - 20 (p. 103 - 195)
Sept 17 - Sept 23 Chps 21 - 31 (p. 196 - 283)
Sept 24 - Sept 30 Chps 32 - 44 (p. 284 - 367)
Stephanie Powell WattsStephanie Powell Watts won the Ernest J. Gaines Award for Literary Excellence for her debut story collection, We Are Taking Only What We Need (2012), also named one of 2013’s Best Summer Reads by O: The Oprah Magazine. Her short fiction has been included in two volumes of the Best New Stories from the South anthology and honored with a Pushcart Prize.
Ms. Powell Watts’s stories explore the lives of African Americans in fast food and factory jobs, working door to door as Jehovah’s Witness ministers, and pressing against the boundaries of the small town, post-integration South. Her debut novel, No One Is Coming to Save Us, follows the return of a successful native son to his home in North Carolina and his attempt to join the only family he ever wanted but never had. As Ms. Powell Watts describes it, “Imagine The Great Gatsby set in rural North Carolina, nine decades later, with desperate black people.”
Born in the foothills of North Carolina, with a PhD from the University of Missouri and a BA from the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, she now lives with her husband and son in Pennsylvania where she is an associate professor at Lehigh University.
Here is a short video of Stephanie speaking to books and stories:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxNGO...
Has anyone already read No One Is Coming to Save Us?Anyone started the book?
Has anyone read Stephanie Powell Watts prior book - a short story collection - We Are Taking Only What We Need: Stories?
There was been a lot of buzz about No One Is Coming to Save Us.Inaugural selection by Sarah Jessica Parker for the American Library Association’s Book Club Central
Named one of the best books of 2017 by Entertainment Weekly, W Magazine, Bustle, The Millions, Babble, Redbook, Elle, Nylon and The Chicago Review of Books
One of the buzz lines about the book states:
The Great Gatsby brilliantly recast in the contemporary South: a powerful first novel about an extended African-American family and their colliding visions of the American Dream. No One Is Coming to Save Us is a revelatory debut from an insightful voice that combines a universally resonant story with an intimate glimpse into the hearts of one family.
And in an interview the author says:
“Imagine The Great Gatsby set in rural North Carolina, nine decades later, with desperate black people.”
That’s how Stephanie Powell Watts, prize-winning author of the acclaimed short-story collection We Are Taking Only What We Need, describes her debut novel No One Is Coming to Save Us.
How do you feel when a book is heavily compared to a another book?
Does it change how you read or approach the book?
In the case of this book - does it matter if you have read or not read The Great Gatsby?
If you have read The Great Gatsby, will you be looking for comparisons and/or if it follows The Great Gatsby's storyline?
Mod
Anyone started the book?
Has anyone read Stephanie Powell Watts prior book - a short story collection - [book..."
Hello Beverly, I read her short story collection when it was first released and I quite enjoyed it - but with a caveat. Here's what I said at the time:
What a fantastic writer and storyteller. I really wanted to give this book a higher rating but the editing here is really poor. Some books can overcome it and some cannot. Hopefully, Watts sophomore effort will correct that problem.
I should've delved more into the editing thing because I can't recall exactly what was poor about it. There could be a myriad of issues there but none indicated
The premise of this new novel sounds interesting, however. Especially a sort of retelling of a most popular book, beloved in many circles, and one everyone knows pretty much.
Mod
Inaugural selection by Sarah Jessica Parker for the American Library Association’s Book Club Central
Named one of t..."
I'm typically not that fond of books that are very similar to or straight out retelling of other works. I'm especially not fond of this new fad of books based on fairytales (read: Helen Oyeyemi). That being said, I just finished Atwood's Hag-Seed which is a modern day or contemporary retelling of Shakespeare's The Tempest set in a correctional institution, and I found the concept here, well, interesting. What it has done though is provided me with a new found respect and appreciation for Shakespeare and his work and I'm trying to decide now what play would be the best introduction to his work (something other than Romeo and Juliet).
So I guess the moral is there is some good to come out of these retellings.
Columbus wrote: "Beverly wrote: "Has anyone already read No One Is Coming to Save Us?Anyone started the book?
Has anyone read Stephanie Powell Watts prior book - a short story co..."
I also read the short story collection - We Are Taking Only What We Need.
I enjoyed the collection and I know part of my enjoyment was because it did a very good job of exploring the time and place of the stories which was rural North Carolina.
I am expecting to find this again in No One Is Coming to Save Us. I enjoy stories that immerge me into a specific time and time.
I remember after reading the short story collection thinking that I hoped she write a novel (as I prefer novels to ss).
Also - I like her book titles - they catch my attention.
I'd like to get back to reading with the group on this one. I have it on hold, but I'm considering buying it so that I don't get off from the discussion. I've kept up with most of the books of the month, but have either read them too early or too late to get in on the discussions properly. I may order the short stories, too, as I am a fan of ss and my library doesn't have it.
Beverly wrote: "Has anyone already read No One Is Coming to Save Us?Anyone started the book?
I'm 13% in.
Karen Michele wrote: "I'd like to get back to reading with the group on this one. I have it on hold, but I'm considering buying it so that I don't get off from the discussion. I've kept up with most of the books of the ..."I hope you are able to join us this month but the thread remains open for whenever you are ready to comment.
And feel free to comment on any of the more general questions.
Though this book was published in April - but the hold are still going strong probably the American Library Association picked it as their 1st book for their Book Club Central initiative.
Columbus wrote: "Beverly wrote: "There was been a lot of buzz about No One Is Coming to Save Us.Inaugural selection by Sarah Jessica Parker for the American Library Association’s Book Club Central..."
I have mixed feelings about books about that are a "retelling" of a another story. I understand that this is a way to connect readers to books that that they have previously read (or at least know of).
At times I think this does the book a disservice as often the reader will read the retold story with comparing it to the parts of the other book that they liked and if the retelling does not have these parts/elements they often they "ding" the book in reviews/ratings.
I try hard when hearing I book is a "retelling" of another to keep an open mind as it often means an "allusion" to some aspect of the other book and unless I know why the books are being compared I might be misjudging my reading expectations.
I have not read The Great Gatsby (I guess it was not an assigned book in HS/college) but I do know the what the story is about.
I have been reading the Hogarth Shakespeare series but have not gotten to Hag-Seed yet. What I have found that each author in the series kept to the "essence" of the play that they were "retelling" and that each author remained true to their writing and storytelling styles. So I liked the stories of those authors whose writing styles that I liked, if I did not like the author's writing style then I did not like their retelling.
Beverly wrote: "Has anyone already read No One Is Coming to Save Us?Anyone started the book?
Has anyone read Stephanie Powell Watts prior book - a short story collection - [book..."
I put myself on the waiting list at the library when the title was mentioned here. But I'm #45 and they only have 10 copies so it'll be a while.
Anyone started the book?Yes, I am pleasantly surprised it hasn't started out like I expected. I am usually hesitant about retellings but have been surprised before.
I think this author is going to have her own take on how she interprets and follows the Great Gatsby storyline and I am looking forward to reading this. I probably should buy this one. I am finding many great lines to highlight already.
Rebecca wrote: "Anyone started the book?Yes, I am pleasantly surprised it hasn't started out like I expected. I am usually hesitant about retellings but have been surprised before.
I think this author is going..."
I have also started the book today.
While both The Great Gatsby and No One Is Coming to Save Us are about achieving the American Dream, this is about African Americans achieving their version of the Dream while living in contemporary times but in the rural South so I would think it would have to be different on how they encounter and even what the dreams are.
I am enjoying how the author sets us in the time and place and yes, I too have noted several phrases.
Anyone started the book?I am up to chapter 10. I like what I have read so far.
Mod
Now open for discussion Chapters 1 - 10 (pages 1 - 10) Please feel free to make comments, ask questions, quote passages.
How did the opening paragraphs affect you?
The House he's building is done mostly. All that's missing now is the prettying........
At least that is what they say.
The boy we all saw grow up came back to us...... With money, JJ Ferguson made it.
JJ was the newest resident on Brushy Mountain Road.
Every town has a section where the people are rich and their lives so far from yours you almost expect them to speak another tongue. Brushy Mountain is that place for us.
Did the author take you there (the time, place, situation)?
What are your thoughts on the book cover?
At least in the beginning does it reflect the story well?
What are your initial thoughts on the author's style of storytelling?
We "meet" JJ in the first chapter and there are a couple of brief comments on him in a couple of chapters, but we do not "meet" him until Chapter 10. Based on the brief comments made by others did you form an image of JJ in your mind? Did he meet those expectations when you met him in chapter 10?
not getting me this far. should i stick it out?
While reading the first 10 chapters I realized that I have a number of sticky notes regarding statements made - some made me ponder and a couple made me chuckle. I realize that I am enjoying reading these statement than I am about the characters at this point.I will post a comment of those statements later.
Realizing that this book is about "The American Dream" of African Americans in the contemporary South (I would go further and say the contemporary rural South), I thought could I state what is "The American Dream" in - as a elevator speech or if someone asked what it is - so I googled it.
The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States, the set of ideals (Democracy, Rights, Liberty, Opportunity, and Equality) in which freedom includes the opportunity for prosperity and success, and an upward social mobility for the family and children, achieved through hard work in a society with few barriers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...
I started the novel today. Still trying to get my feel for it 4 chapters in. I never read the Great Gatsby or saw any of the movies so I don't have any preconceived notions. I did think it odd that JJ is mentioned in the first chapter then promptly disappears but I want to see where Marcus in prison takes us.
I'm a little over 100 pages into it so far. I'm enjoying it so far. Not sure at all where the Marcus story line is going either.
William wrote: "I started the novel today. Still trying to get my feel for it 4 chapters in. I never read the Great Gatsby or saw any of the movies so I don't have any preconceived notions. I did think it odd that..."Yes, I found that interesting also but JJ makes an appearance in chp. 10 and it is an interesting encounter with Sylvia.
George wrote: "I'm a little over 100 pages into it so far. I'm enjoying it so far. Not sure at all where the Marcus story line is going either."I am more curious about what happened with Devon (Sylvia's son) and if it is connected in anyway to JJ.
Sylvia seems to be in many ways to be satisfied with parts of her life and yet she is unhappy/haunted on several aspects of her life that has not gone well.
Marcus is using a trick that prisoners due with collect calls - doing it until they get a hook.
Well, to me the question is how did he get her phone number?
George wrote: "Well, to me the question is how did he get her phone number?"Just dial numbers randomly (or misdialed a number) and see if the person accepts the collect call and if so will engage in conversation.
So we know in Chp 1 that JJ is back and building a home but has not really made contact with those that he knew in the past.Then over the next chapters JJ is only mentioned briefly.
Sylvia and her daughter Ava discuss JJ briefly.
Ava's husband Henry has a "sighting" of JJ in town but doesn't mention it. Well Henry has his own secrets (an affair and a child outside of his marriage).
It is in chapter 10 that JJ appears and the reader hears from him as he speaks with Sylvia.
So I was "startled" when Sylvia comes to her house (the house which is not really hers anymore but where Ava and Henry live - but she cannot seem to let go of despite now having her own apartment) and sees JJ standing there.
It was a weird awkward conversation to me. JJ seems like a stalker, he parks his car away from the house, mentions that he can see this house from his house on the hill (or at least perceives to) while Sylvia is not able to see his house.
JJ states he just wants to be happy several times and that he and Ava have a connection to each other. Sylvia tells him Ava is married and that doesn't seem to phase JJ. Sylvia tells JJ to go see Sylvia at work.
Hunh? All this happened in chapter one? I'll need to go back and skim it... Perhaps I've been put to sleep by Sylvia's seemingly interminable introspection and navel gazing in the following 3 chapters. I've started to sleep walk and then suddenly the book comes alive again with dialog between Sylvia and her daughter, sister' or Marcus.
William wrote: "Hunh? All this happened in chapter one? I'll need to go back and skim it... Perhaps I've been put to sleep by Sylvia's seemingly interminable introspection and navel gazing in the following 3 chapt..."So I will go back and clarify further.
The action takes place over chapters 1 -10 (where JJ has the conversation with Sylvia).
William wrote: "Hunh? All this happened in chapter one? I'll need to go back and skim it... Perhaps I've been put to sleep by Sylvia's seemingly interminable introspection and navel gazing in the following 3 chapt..."Yes, from the this first part it seems like Sylvia is one of the main narrators/characters. And so is Ava.
But not surprised as from her short story collection - she effectively used female narrators/main subject of the stories - getting into their motives and situations.
In defense of Sylvia - we learned about the town and expectations prior to the current conditions and then got caught up on what the issues are today.
Sylvia wanted her own home and for her children to do better than her. She got her home, and Ava went away to college, came back and is now the chief loan officer for the bank in town - a professional. So she has done well on that account. She is about to retire from a desk job and is divorced from her husband who is living on the other side of town with a much younger woman.
Sylvia comes across as being unhappy/unsatisfied but she seems to have encouraging words for others - Marcus, Ava.
I am curious about her son Devon - What happened to him.
Ava wants desperately to have a baby and arranges her life around that - researching, what to eat, etc.
Her husband Henry is sneaking around with a white waitress at a popular eatery and he has a son with her.
Henry is worried about losing his job at the furniture making factory - a job he did not like at first but the only alternative was at a chicken processing plant. Depressing for sure.
Mod
She needs to give quite a few writers lessons on how to effectively write both male and female characters well. At least so far. I'm loving this book.
Columbus wrote: "ive just completed the first 10 chapters and I'm really enjoying it. Watts storytelling is reminiscent of the wonderful stories in her collection. I love how she provides you with just enough infor..."The author is building tension layer by layer - we know something is going to happen but to who and when and over what we do not know yet.
Mod
Columbus wrote: "This book has a 3.09 rating so far? Not a great rating for a book starting out so well. I guess I need to prepare for a letdown somewhere if I were to go by that. Unless reviewers are basing it on ..."Yes, I have seen reviews where the rating was dinged because it did not faithfully follow The Great Gatsby.
The critics seem to like the book - most do a good explanation of why not to do a play by play comparison with The Great Gatsby and why this book is worth reading. THERE ARE SPOILERS IN THESE REVIEWS - SO YOU MIGHT NOT WANT TO READ UNTIL YOU ARE FURTHER IN THE BOOK.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/entert...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/03/bo...
https://www.dallasnews.com/arts/books...
http://time.com/4716518/review-no-one...
Beverly wrote: "William wrote: "Hunh? All this happened in chapter one? I'll need to go back and skim it... Perhaps I've been put to sleep by Sylvia's seemingly interminable introspection and navel gazing in the f..."OK. Thanks. My memory is not like it used to be and I was worried there for a minute...I'm liking the book more now...I thought the first chapters boring and a bit depressing. Seemed like the book was gonna be all about Sylvia"s disappointments in life. The incremental introduction of new characters is keeping it lively.
that's certainly possible. But I suspect there's a different answer here eventually. of course, I have been wrong before.
George wrote: "that's certainly possible. But I suspect there's a different answer here eventually. of course, I have been wrong before."I also suspect that!!
I think it is related to her son - not sure the connection but think there is one.
And I too have been wrong before. :)
Not to worry. we'll be wrong together. :)
Mod
Columbus wrote: "I hate when this happens. No renewals at library.... I was really enjoying this too."Me too!!!
Now open for discussion on Chapters 11 - 20 (pages 103-195).Please feel free to make comments, ask questions, quote passages, etc.
Has is everyone doing their reading?We are about half way through the book, are you settled into this story, has your opinion about the storyline changed over the course of your reading???
This novel is written from a number of perspectives. How does the multi-perspective approach help to shape or hinder your reading experience?
JJ (or Jay as he wants to now be called) is the "lynchpin" of the story, but the novel is mostly comprised of female characters (or at least the female voices have more space).What is the effect of having the central cast made up of mostly women?
Mod
-I'm agreeing more with the critics so far about this book than those who're reading the book trying to make a direct correlation with Fitzgerald's Gatsby. I'm really enjoying it.
-I'm about half way through the book but I'll be damn if I don't finish it before it's due back tomorrow. I'll just have to stay away from watching the coverage on CNN and the USOpen.
-I'm assuming JJ or Jay is Gatsby and so far Sylvia is the Nick Caraway character since she sort of narrates most of the first part. Keep wondering how this would've turned out with a first person narrative throughout.
-You're correct, the female characters take the lead on this even though JJ is the lynchpin as you mentioned. But Henry is really interesting to me in a way I can't quite put my finger on. And what's going on with Devon (pronounced like Elton's 'Levon' - love that song). The conversation Sylvia had with him on the phone was strange and most likely intentionally cryptic. And Don, oh Don man what's going on?
Beverly wrote: "Columbus wrote: "This book has a 3.09 rating so far? Not a great rating for a book starting out so well. I guess I need to prepare for a letdown somewhere if I were to go by that. Unless reviewers ..."I never read the great Gatsby and and had nothing to compare this book to. I guess that is why I did not agree with the low ratings and reviews that I read.
Columbus wrote: "Beverly, a couple of things:-I'm agreeing more with the critics so far about this book than those who're reading the book trying to make a direct correlation with Fitzgerald's Gatsby. I'm really ..."
I have settled into this book (after a slightly bumpy beginning for me).
Now that I am into the flow of how the author wants to tell her story, I am so wrapped up in the language she uses and the story she telling about this place (rural/small town South), this time (contemporary) and this specific group of characters (African-American). She definitely knows what she is writing about.
I understand about distractions - yesterday for me was college football, US Open & the Weather Channel. I hope you make it through the book before you return it.
I like the effect of the mainly female characters narrating as for me it allows to see more of the "everyday" lives as in a lot of stories - women are usually the ones attending to the activities that are usually defined by outside influences - the economy, the culture, class issues etc. and how it affects how the characters see themselves and in this case their "dreams".
As I have mentioned before the language is so vivid and it is used well to portray the characters.Here are a comments on a couple of the chapters for this second part.
Chapter 11 – This is Ava’s chapter and we learn what is “haunting” her now.
• She so wants a baby but acknowledges that she had spent many years “avoiding” getting pregnant and feels what she considered luck is really the curse she feels now.
• Ava turns to a website to seek comfort from women in similar situations and is glad she can reveal herself online without shame as “the weight of shame, the sorrow, the terror stuck and dragged down a body in the world.” (p.106)
• Ava seems to have no hobbies and/or “true” friends and Henry seems to be gone from the house a lot.
• Henry often uses the excuse of going to see his needy father but feels that is an excuse and that she believes that he is escaping from her and that other women could be the likely reason.
• “There are secrets in a relationship that probably should remain secret. Little lies of omission, artful (or not) evasions that reminded you that you woke up with a stranger, even if you think you know him down to the bone.” (p.112) “The paradox of love was how you manage to feel it with so little information.” (p.112)
• Her attitude on marriage and where it fits into her life – “That’s the key to marriage. Learn to deal. Play the game right and you might even end up reasonably happy. And the good news, if you can manage the machinations and intrigue of a functional marriage you have all the tools you need to rule the world.” (p.113)
• Why does Ava want a baby? “…black women who had had enough of the hard life already and said another baby meant a tether to the meanness of too little.” (p. 113) – but Ava knows that this had nothing to do with the love these women had/have for their children.
• Why did Ava get married to Henry as it seems that she was not happy from even in the beginning? – Was this one of the tenets of her “American Dream”?
• Ava feels that life turned out just like her mother’s – lonely but feels she still has time to change her life. Is this why she wants a baby? How will she react when she learns Henry has a son?
• At this point it would seem that Ava is would be open/accepting to any attention that JJ will provide – but that would make the story a little too predictable so I am anxious to see where the storyline goes.
Chapter 12 – Sylvia
• So. Sylvia knows how to contact Devon and feels he would want to know JJ is back in town
• Devon does not want his mother to call him and only speaks to say this
• Sylvia knows Devon can’t forgive her and that she doesn’t deserve forgiveness.
• She will settle him just listening to him breath on the phone if the Devon would stay on the line.
Chapter 13 – Don & Sylvia’s relationship
• So, we hear from Don and then he goes to meet up with Sylvia at “their” house (actually Ava & Henry). And learn how nothing is what it appears to be and certain connections may not be perfect but just cannot be broken.
• “To analyze the way of a cheater is a losing game. They just do. They just will. Only death or the smell of it will stop them.” (p.119)
• “Though Don wasn’t searching for a woman, one found him.” (p.121)
• “He pretended he knew nothing about Sylvia and James’s relationship, if you want to call it that. He wouldn’t give Sylvia the gift of revenge. He wasn’t a saint.” (p.121)
• “Friday was fried fish day, good croakers with crisp cornmeal overcoats on their itty-bitty bodies and black rubbery skin.” (p.121) “Don listened while he ate the hot sauce-soaked white bread with the greasy fishy taste of the fresh catch.” (p.122) – This section had my mouth watery as these are the best and I have also spent time in long lines in places like Sisters to get these fried fish sandwiches.
• “Love is tenacious, the crabgrass of emotions, it will grow anywhere, hold on in the smallest crack of desire.” (p.123)
• “When they were very poor and not just ordinary poor…” (p.128)
• Eighteen-year-old Sylvia had a brief relationship with an older married man. “…but that thrill of deceit, the power that came from so much at stake made them both feel bigger and more important than either thought they had a right to be.” (p.132)
• “She knew that wildness was nothing to admire. Anything out of control was beautiful only to the distant looker…” (p.133)
• “He hadn’t forgotten about Jonnie at all. But anybody paying attention knew they weren’t a forever couple. That was easy math. Sylvia would always be in the picture, it was as simple as that.” (p.134)
• “Besides no one had noticed her today. … not another soul, besides this man, had thought to remember that Sylvia Ross was alive.” (p.142)
Chapter 14 – Ava
• Ava makes an appointment to confirm her pregnancy
Columbus wrote: "Beverly, a couple of things:-I'm agreeing more with the critics so far about this book than those who're reading the book trying to make a direct correlation with Fitzgerald's Gatsby. I'm really ..."
Regarding your comment on what is going on with Don.
It seems that both Henry and Don have wandering "eyes".
Henry is noted that he is good-looking so it seems that women were attracted to him.
Don it was noted was not necessarily good-looking but seems charming and know what to say to women.
So both these men seem to feel power from their "sexual" side.
This seems to define them.
Ava seems to draw her power from a position/career in her community.
Sylvia - well haven't quite figured her out - she has a rough/combative public face but this is not who she feels on the side.
The contrast between Ava and Sylvia I think reflects the era in which they grew up in.
Literary Fiction by People of Color
Books mentioned in this topic
We Are Taking Only What We Need (other topics)We Are Taking Only What We Need: Stories (other topics)
Sing, Unburied, Sing (other topics)
Salvage the Bones (other topics)
No One Is Coming to Save Us (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Edward Kelsey Moore (other topics)Stephanie Powell Watts (other topics)
Stephanie Powell Watts (other topics)
Stephanie Powell Watts (other topics)
Stephanie Powell Watts (other topics)
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