"The Night Circus" Finished Reading *Spoilers*

[Sarah]

Let's talk about this lovely book! Full spoilers allowed.

[Lee]

It was outside of my usual fantasy/sci-fi my comfort zone and straight off what hit me was the beautiful, flowing writing. The plot didn't feel like it's strongest point as I was expecting a bit more by the end. It all felt very linear and didn't really feel like it went anywhere from its initial premise. Two contestants, meet, fall in love and then sacrifice themselves with little in-between. The characters felt a bit flat as well and throughout the whole book, apart from the two main characters, little is done to develop the cast beyond their initial descriptions. In contrast to that, I could have read a lot more about the circus and its attractions and the epilogue with the business card I thought was a nice touch. It was here in exploring the circus that I felt that "magic" that gives me a child like glee from the story and the author is master in the description that brings it to life and it really shined for me. Definitely something I would recommend me to my more literature inclined friend.

The whole way through I was making the comparison to Bradbury's "Something Wicked this Way Comes". Though it is a totally different story about a circus, the writing creates that same sense of magic and the Night Circus couldn't capture that same high for me.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

The first time I read 'The Night Circus' I could not connect very well with the characters. This is so peculiar, but now that I have read it a second time, it feels like a warmer, more emotional, novel, less cerebral, than it did the first time!

:O

[Cheryl]

I wish I could find my review from my first read. I recall that I wrote an unusually long and careful review, because I had a negative opinion. But I recall almost nothing else.

I'm still having a negative opinion this time. I really really want to love, or at least like this, but it's just like a gauze scarf - no shape, no substance, no significance. I have time right now to pick it up and keep going... and I don't want to!

What's wrong with me? What am I missing?

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Cheryl wrote: "I wish I could find my review from my first read. I recall that I wrote an unusually long and careful review, because I had a negative opinion. But I recall almost nothing else.

I'm still having a..."

"...gauze scarf..."

It seems to me you nailed it, Cheryl.

[Jen]

The idea of two different systems of magic competing in a public venue was a cool premise, and the slow reveal that that's what was happening was enjoyable. The dreamlike atmosphere, and the characters wondering and being unsure what was real was the clincher for me. I love this kind of story, because it leaves us as readers unsure - are the things happening in the magical tents real, or just appearing in people's minds, and if the latter, does it matter? I wish the story would have stayed with this a bit more.

Some things felt pretty flat. Around 40% I was a tired of the competition angle and reading stalled out for me. Prospero's coldness toward his daughter and his eagerness to pit her against his former teacher, knowing the outcome could mean her death, well it just seemed petty.

The magic really propped up the circus. A magical train moves them from place to place, without the practical need for setup and tear down... you'd think someone running the circus would notice the oddness. And I get that Marco was manipulating people's minds, but still. Magic was running the circus. I dunno, just felt a little flat to me.

[Becky]

Cheryl wrote: "I wish I could find my review from my first read. I recall that I wrote an unusually long and careful review, because I had a negative opinion. But I recall almost nothing else.

I'm still having a negative opinion this time. I really really want to love, or at least like this, but it's just like a gauze scarf - no shape, no substance, no significance. I have time right now to pick it up and keep going... and I don't want to!

What's wrong with me? What am I missing?"

Nothing is wrong with you! I think that you nailed it 10 million percent with "gauze scarf". LOL I didn't read your review, but I bet it was great. Mine... contained a lot of cursing. O_o

[Allison]

Yeah, there's no plot. The magic is the magic of the writing and how it mirrors the ethereal wonder of the circus and the tentative love between two opponents. I think this book is definitely not for everyone. And I did have some nits to pick, but I've never felt as fulfilled by a story with no plot as I did by this one, which made it special to me. Anything that can make me feel with very little in the way of dramatic moments makes me take notice.

My personal criticism is that I disliked that the end was orchestrated by someone outside of this game. It lost poignancy I think to have the solution come from the past competitor.

[Shomeret]

Cheryl wrote: "I wish I could find my review from my first read. I recall that I wrote an unusually long and careful review, because I had a negative opinion. But I recall almost nothing else.

I'm still having a..."

Cheryl, my opinion was similar. See my review at https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Cheryl]

Shomeret, yes, "soap bubbles" and "cotton candy" are also good metaphors. Wonderful, in and of themselves, but not enough.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

I am very glad to have re-read this for a second time! I have changed my mind and changed my rating from a reluctant four stars to an enthusiastic five stars.

Here is my review:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Bruce]

I found this to be a beautiful and poetic kind of fantasy. To me, the lyrical and ethereal quality of this pushes the boundaries of a literary work. Whereas the story itself is pretty basic, beneath the surface, there is actually a lot going on. I get the lack of plot and the flat characters, but to me this is pretty typical of literature, where the plot and the characters are much more subtle than in-your-face. If you know a lot about magic and history, I think there's a lot of depth to the book. If you just read it at face value, then maybe not so much. Like every book, I guess it depends what you like.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Bruce wrote: "I found this to be a beautiful and poetic kind of fantasy. To me, the lyrical and ethereal quality of this pushes the boundaries of a literary work. Whereas the story itself is pretty basic, beneat..."

I completely agree, Bruce. It took two readings for me.

[Cheryl]

Yes, this is all why I think I should like it. I prefer subtle. I prefer books that ask for a deeper reading or a reread. I have read this once before. I just can't make it add up to anything but scenery.

I mean, is there allegory? Is there statement? Is there a comment on the human condition? Anything that makes this *L*iterature?

[Cheryl]

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "I am very glad to have re-read this for a second time! I have changed my mind and changed my rating from a reluctant four stars to an enthusiastic five stars.

Here is my review:

https://www.goodr..."

Ok, now I see what you say about the Literary aspects. I still want to know what Bruce says. ;)

[Yefim]

It's a short story worth of plot that got padded into a book. The magic only gets you so far, you need more than atmosphere to make the book worthwhile. Did you notice how the book made a splash when it came out, but then kinda dropped off and was forgotten a couple of years later? That's because this book is eminently forgettable.

[Shomeret]

Bruce wrote: "I found this to be a beautiful and poetic kind of fantasy. To me, the lyrical and ethereal quality of this pushes the boundaries of a literary work. Whereas the story itself is pretty basic, beneat..."

Yes, it's typical of the sort of literature that I don't like. The literature that I do like has depth of character and important themes --e.g. Dostoevsky. I do know a great deal about magic and history, and there was nothing there for me in The Night Circus. For me, that emperor has no clothes. It was beautiful and superficial.

[Barry]

Actually I agree with Bruce too. I thought the story is really beautiful (from what I remember, having read this more than a year ago). The first part of the book (with Prospero having made that bet with his mentor) was kinda slow and annoying. But, once we get the daughter fully grown and into the circus, things picked up for me. Yes, this is, perhaps, a literary fiction with some magic in it. But, i really like the story of the two main characters.

[Bruce]

Cheryl wrote: I still want to know what Bruce says. ;)

To me, people tend to read themselves into a book, especially if its good literature. If a book is telling you what to think, then to me it's not the best literature. I can't tell you what a book means to you and you can't do the same for me.

That said, a typical Western style dualism has good vs evil, and the reader knows who is good and who is evil. The author tells them. That might be a lot of the frustration with this book. There's no side to pick, hence a more subtle form of conflict. But that's also the beauty of this book too. Good doesn't triumph over evil. Rather, the two sides come together to form a more completed and perfect whole, where the enchanting night circus is the 'world'. There are some other traditions where that is how they see the world. But that's just me. Someone else might see this book completely different or see nothing at all. That's the beauty of literature.

[Cheryl]

I get that.
I'm wondering what literary value Night Circus has.
Because I'm not finding it there.

[Allison]

It's been compared to the Mask of the Red Death, which was an allegory to the wasting fever of small pox. In this view, readers wonder whether the children are not really finding a way to fight each other until they end up falling in love, but instead whether their move the the ethereal space is actually their death after a life of hardship and abuse, and the circus is simply a memory of them.

It's also been considered a reimagining of The Tempest, another heavily symbolic work, that explores the nature of power, reconciliation, and hope for a kinder future. In this iteration, Prospero is not the epitome of goodness in mankind, but of the warmer, direct involvement of his teaching style as a magical near-god.

It could all be fluff, of course. Erin said she was writing the story she wanted and ended up rewriting it to include the circus as it was very dry without it, who knows. But that's what more academic minds than mine have speculated.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Cheryl wrote: "I get that.
I'm wondering what literary value Night Circus has.
Because I'm not finding it there."

This is a book in which Literature majors and MFA program graduates delight in. I think basically the literary value in this novel is primarily it is entirely a homage to ancient story-telling. Students with University Literature educations can make a game of finding all of the ancient text stories and myths from around the world - China, India, Mesopotamia Egypt. Hidden, and not-so-hidden, in the plot, characterization, and images are references to many hundreds of ancient texts, stories, myths and ancient 'science' such as astrology, which people's, such as China, truly believed.

Literary values include more than character growth, but also a showing off of Literature knowledge by bringing in oblique clues, such as the names Hector and Alexander - probably referencing the Iliad for one, and the ancient Macedon Greek empire for another. Alexander the Great is credited for spreading the values, art, science and architecture of Ancient Greek culture throughout parts of Asia, the Middle-East, Africa and Europe, and certainly throughout the Mediterranean.

[Cheryl]

Eh. Thanks for the input.

[Donald]

I wasn't too caught up initially but once we've moved out of abusive childhoods and sociopaths into the circus it became gorgeous. I agree that there's not much of anything to it but I found it simply beautiful - the images it conjured were simply fantastic, and I would love to see a miniseries of it.

It's like a painting of a particularly stunning landscape. There's not necessarily a heap there but it can be appreciated just as what it is.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

I finished my second reading last night, and just updated my review with these thoughts:

"Thoughts on second reading:

I'd had a thought about this book before, about one of the common complaints of the book - namely that the characters aren't developed enough, and that the love story between Marco and Celia never feels fully explored.

I don't necessarily disagree with these points.

However -

I believe that a reason for that is that this story isn't about Marco and Celia. No more is it about Bailey, Poppet and Widget. Nor Marco and Celia's guardians, who started the whole ordeal. Nor Chandrash or Tsukiko or Isobel or Friederick Thiessen.

It's about all of them.

And, mostly, it's about the Circus.

This story is about the origination, the life, and the continuation of the Circus. The challenge, the love story, Bailey's story - all of it is important insofar as they are involved in the story of how the Circus came to be, how it lived, how it nearly died, and how its life was continued.

I think maybe that's why the parts of the story describing the circus and experiencing the circus are the most fleshed out - because that's the heart of the story.

The rest of it are like secondary characters in any story - mostly important to the extent that they serve the main character's story and their arc.

Anyway -

It's just a perspective, and one that was only furthered, for me, upon reading it a second time and looking to tie together the pieces that bind."

[Bruce]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I finished my second reading last night, and just updated my review with these thoughts:

"Thoughts on second reading..."

Good points, I like that perspective.

[Stephanie]

I enjoyed this one much more than expected. I completely agree with Colleen's perspective and from that viewpoint the book doesn't lack for much.

My main issue is actually with the blurb, because I feel like it presents the book as something that is isn't, or at least implies that the romance is a bigger theme than I actually felt it was. I don't think the second paragraph (the one about the earth-shattering love between mages) was necessary. I would have been drawn in by the first paragraph alone.
I kept waiting for the book to be about that second paragraph, but it takes forever to get there. Usually I expect what is in the blurb to turn up in the first few chapters, but I was maybe halfway through the book and had yet to see much evidence of that thread of the story.

I sometimes had trouble following the timeline, so if I were going to reread I would pay more attention to that in the beginning.

I kept wondering throughout what the deal was with the second person sections, because I didn't really understand the purpose. When Widget started telling that story at the end of the book I actually teared up a little bit. I'm not even sure why, but that scene really got me.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Stephanie wrote: "I sometimes had trouble following the timeline, so if I were going to reread I would pay more attention to that in the beginning. "

I remember having more trouble with the timeline the first time I read it. The second time I made sure to actually pay attention to the dates listed at the start of the chapters.

[Cheryl]

Circus as character. Hmm. Now I almost want to try again!

[Becky]

I definitely agree that the circus itself was supposed to be a character, maybe THE character. I just didn't care, and that didn't make me enjoy the tediousness of reading about it any more. LOL

[Donald]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "And, mostly, it's about the Circus."

I couldn't put it so succinctly but that's spot on. I don't really care about any of the love stories or the competition or whatever else beyond "oh that's cute" or "oh that's interesting", but the sense of place was enough to catch me up and sold me completely on the book.

[Shomeret]

Donald wrote: "colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "And, mostly, it's about the Circus."

I couldn't put it so succinctly but that's spot on. I don't really care about any of the love stories or the competiti..."

As a circus fan, the sense of place definitely wasn't a draw for me. There was no circus authenticity. I didn't get any sense that the author had hung around circuses or even researched them. For me, there was zero sense of place. The author was trying to get by on sheer style.

[Cheryl]

I notice that the author has not published anything since. Does that signify anything to any of you?

[Allison]

That she hasn't finished another book yet?

Also that she's super lucky that her first book made a wave.

[Kristin B.]

I really enjoyed this. It was definitely beautiful to read and the circus was so interesting.

Honestly, what I would love more than anything, is a book about Poppet and Widget. I absolutely adored them.

I was not a huge fan of the alternating timelines, but I understood why they were used. I felt the characters had life and depth, except maybe for Bailey. I actually wish we knew more about him so that I felt invested as him as the new proprietor.

Also, I didn't really think about it while I was reading, but Bruce made an important point. There is no real evil to be defeated. (Though if you need one, I think Alexander and Hector could qualify.) It's always nice to read a story that has no definitive enemy to fight. It makes me more invested in how it will be resolved. In a good vs evil novel, you generally know that good will win. All that remains is the details of how. In this type of story the ending is a lot more open to possibilities.

[Robyn]

I absolutely love this book - it's one of my all-time favourites - but it's definitely what I'd call a 'marmite' book. It isn't a book with a particularly strong plot - it's a more of a character study, except the character in question is the circus itself. All of the actual characters and their storylines are secondary to the descriptions of the circus. That isn't something that would appeal to those fond of strong, complex plots, or those who like to connect to the people (although actually, I did find myself connecting to Celia and Bailey).

The language used is undeniably fantastic. The descriptions of the circus are true magic with words, and the entire idea is incredibly imaginative. I've reread this book many times and it has never lost its magic for me. But it would never be the first book I recommended to anyone else, because you have to enjoy a certain kind of writing for it to appeal I think.

[Jack]

I'm thinking I may have to read this again someday. It seems to get better for people the second time around. As for me, I loved the concept, but felt it was WAY too heavy on the competition and left too much undone about the circus itself. I get it, that you can't have one without the other, but just felt myself getting tired of the competition that was going to inevitably end with them finding a way to both sacrifice themselves. Glad I read it. Might read it a few years from now again.

[~ Giulia ~]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I finished my second reading last night, and just updated my review with these thoughts:

"Thoughts on second reading:

I'd had a thought about this book before, about one of the common complaints ..."

You just explained exactly what I thought (and did it much more clearly than I ever could). Only, I think this is exactly the core of what irritated me: if it's actually all about the circus, why keep trying to make it all about Marco, Celia and the competition instead? It's no wonder that it becomes boring, disjointed and undeveloped.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

In a way, Marco and Celia are about the circus. Their love transforms the way everything is -the competition, the circus, all of the people, like in 'Frozen'.

Gods are unchanging, but people can choose change, and change everything and everybody.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

~ Giulia ~ wrote: "if it's actually all about the circus, why keep trying to make it all about Marco, Celia and the competition instead? It's no wonder that it becomes boring, disjointed and undeveloped. "

I don't agree that it did keep trying to make it all about the competition - aside from the ways the competition creates and forms the circus.

On the second read I was very aware of the fact that at least as much page time is given to Bailey, Poppet and Widget as is given to Celia and Marco.

I would guesstimate it was something like 40% Celia/Marco, 40% Bailey/Poppet/Widget and 20% everybody else.

[~ Giulia ~]

But the protagonist of Frozen isn't Arendelle.
If it was the story of Marco and Celia and how they influence everything around them it would have been fine, after all every character is the protagonist of his/her own story. I don't know how to explain, it's like we are told Marco and Celia's story, but with the circus as the protagonist and, for me, it didn't work well.

[J.W.]

I had a really tough time rating this one. I Ostend to it on audio read by the incredibly talented Jim Dale. That certainly added to my enjoyment in a big way.

I loved the mystery and excitement surrounding the circus. I enjoyed the idea of this centuries long game and the reveals that followed with it, including that one of the "players" would have to die.

On the other hand, it felt like there was very little by way of main plot, as others have noted. The characters felt paper-thin to me; they were more pieces of the setting rather than living within it. I ended up liking side characters more than the mains.

I ended up giving this 4 stars right after finishing but on reflection may drop it to 3. The 4 I think was a bonus for Dale's exceptional performance.

[Clare]

This book captivated me from start to finish. The imagery, the language, the love story, the mystery of it was all delicious and I loved immersing myself in it. I want to run away with the circus now just like Bailey!

[Ryan]

Yet to finish this but early thoughts...

Why'd I take Celia's side straight away? Misogyny? Because she was introduced to us first of the two? Victim verbally abused by her now dead mother and dealt with little regard by her father as an individual but only as a magician to compete in the long running rivalry with Alexander. The boy chose the path though without knowing what he was choosing. He has all the advantages.

[Allison]

Resurrecting this for any possible buddy reads! Chat here about whatever! If you want to discuss while you read, go ahead and use spoiler tags if you'd like.

[Anna]

Hi all new readers! From here onwards, please use spoiler tags until the buddy read is over.

How to use spoiler tags:

(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)]

Click on "(some html is ok)" in the top right corner of the text box (on desktop version) as you're typing your post to copy/paste the code. Or go to this help page if you're not on the desktop version.

[Caitlyn]

Hello Everyone! Here's the first post for the 2020 Night Circus Buddy Reads :)
(in this thread)

So the spoilers with be up to 37% of the book unless otherwise specified.

Up to around page 35:
(view spoiler)[I really liked the fact that we started with Celia and (not so much but still) Marco as kids at the beginning. I think this made me care for the characters just a little bit more. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[ all the side characters at the circus feel really real to me. Like these characters are clearly flawed or quirky in some way but they're all still quite likable in my opinion. (hide spoiler)]
Lots of people thought that the character development was lacking, what do you guys think?

And what did you think about all the scenes with Bailey, I didn't have too much of an opinion on them myself (so far).

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts and feel free to bring up any discussion points you think of, can't wait!

[Caitlyn]

Currently on around page 300 (60%), still absolutely loving it!

Spoilers for up to page 225/502
(view spoiler)[ I just got up to the part where Tara dies and I don't think I was super shocked because it was pretty clear something was going on especially with everyone not aging and stuff. (hide spoiler)]

Spoilers for up to page 270/502
(view spoiler)[When I found out Marco was the one doing it I was quite surprised, I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier. This was during the basically first scene of Celia and Marco together and I didn't really care for their relationship at the time. It's probably because they had very few interactions beforehand. (hide spoiler)]


Spoilers for up to page 300/502
(view spoiler)[At the thirteenth anniversary, I just realised how much of a journey it has been! The way the party was described, the atmosphere, the colours, the food it made it feel so wondrous and amazing. I just couldn't help but think 'What I would do to be at this party'
I think I care for Marco and Celia's relationship a bit more here, especially all the angst Morgenstern managed to fit into that one little scene. It really did something for me. And I couldn't help but feel sorry for Isobel the entire time! (hide spoiler)]

That's all from me for now, would love to hear more thoughts :)

[Caitlyn]

It's funny you mentioned journey's in your comment, considering I also mentioned it in my last comment (which I believe you didn't look at because it was labelled as a spoiler).

I completely agree with your sentiments about Bailey. Spoilers for end of the book:
(view spoiler)[ The fact that someone can be such a relatable and someone normal character, who isn't naturally talented like Celia or Poppet or Widget, or part of a magical circus (yet) becomes someone so vital. I thought the set up for that was amazing. I really think Morgenstern did a great job with the narration. I'm now absolutely in love with his writing.

I really came to like Alexander as a character towards the end. There was so much more depth to him than I thought there would be. I nearly cried at what happened to Herr Theissen though, I loved his relationship with Celia. It was so sweet.

The touchstone Celia did to find that loophole, I think it was done amazingly because it was less cliche than the other possible endings such as Celia/Marco/both dying or both of them having a happy ever after. In a way they did but there's a sadness to their story even though it turned out the best it could.

I really liked all the subtle things that Morgenstern did to portray the relationships between the characters. Although I do feel that Celia and Marco's romance wasn't that strong, it didn't really take away from the story for me. Every character was in a way, essential to me, they didn't feel as 'side charactered' as side characters usually feel. Every one of them had depth yet it was very subtle.

I really liked the non-linear timeline and how we followed the characters over so many years. It was so endearing to see them all grow and change and it made the story all that more wonderful for me. (hide spoiler)]

I basically just mentioned everything that came to my mind because I just finished reading it. Would love to hear your thoughts and any discussion questions or points that I did not mention.

[E.D.]

I remember noticing this book not long after it was first published displayed prominently in a leading bookshop and was almost tempted to buy it. I didn't because I thought it looked too good to be true, maybe a bit too sugary romance for my tastes. I felt the same when it was proposed for a buddy read looking back over the older posts and reviews I was doubtful again but this time I opted to give it a try.

(view spoiler)[The story caught my interest straight away, just enough depth for a casual read. By the time I had finished I realised that I had read an amalgam of traditional fairy tale plots put together with an enchanting result. The two battling magicians using younger proxies to fight; the child running away from home to meet their destiny; the magic of twins and the doomed romance.

As mentioned by others, I did wonder about the character development on a number of fronts as the story progressed but eventually have to agree with Elowen, Della and Tianna, the development was just right. Given the number of main characters involved any further would have slowed the pace of the story considerably and necessitated a much longer book.

I did feel that the characters were all a bit too accepting of the controlled nature of their paths in life especially the way they had been manipulated by the two conspirators. In particular, I felt a bit uncomfortable by the way the death of Tara was written. Although an accident it seems to be viewed by the others, including her sister as being partly self-inflicted because of her curiosity. I must admit I felt the same way about Isobel’s view of the relationship between Celia and Marco until I was caught by surprise by her sudden explosion towards the end.

I agree with Della that the conclusion, with the introduction of the touchstone was about as un-sugary as I could hope without it being over depressive. Overall, a wonderful book. In my opinion there aren’t any supporting characters (apart from Bailey’s family), they all interested me and were central to the story. Plenty of scope for some sort of sequel, although that could ruin the magic of the piece. (hide spoiler)]

Sorry for rambling on.