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Cultural (Mis)Appropriation: Why Didn't She Use a Fictional Native American Tribe?
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Agree wholeheartedly. It's fiction. Therefore, a fictional tribe is what's called for. Then she can give them any characteristics she wants, vs. taking an existing group of people and giving them a phony baloney history and impossible traditions.
Olivia wrote: "KarmaSc0rpi0n wrote: "So Meyer acknowledged that she knew nothing of Native Americans let alone the Quilleutes prior to writing Twilight and by the way she wrote them it doesn't seem like she knew ..."She literally Googled the rainiest place in the Pacific Northwest or the US and was given Forks which led to her discovery of La Push, but honestly with how unrealistically she portrays the weather there she should have just made up a place that way when she says things like it was so cloudy Bella couldn't tell whether it's day or night that could actually be an accurate observation since the place doesn't exist so the weather and mechanics of it could be made up as well. Quite honestly Meyer could have saved herself some trouble (but not all of it) if she set her book in a fictional world instead of the continental US which is a very real place that can be fact checked.
Lisa wrote: "Agree wholeheartedly. It's fiction. Therefore, a fictional tribe is what's called for. Then she can give them any characteristics she wants, vs. taking an existing group of people and giving them a..."Exactly, she still would have gotten some flack for her portrayal, but it would be significantly reduced and wouldn't have brought real people into it.
Well, I don't mind if the town is real. Growing up in a small boring town, I use to make up stories in my head about what was actually happening in the woods or behind a random door to a random house, and setting it in a real town helps fires that imagination. I'm sure there were some bored imaginative Forks teenagers that were happy about Twilight being set in their town.However, I do think she should have used a fictional tribe, but I can kind of see that she was trying to ground her story in some sort of reality to ours, but the cost was too high.
Nuran wrote: "Well, I don't mind if the town is real. Growing up in a small boring town, I use to make up stories in my head about what was actually happening in the woods or behind a random door to a random hou..."Yeah I don't imagine anyone liking the idea of having their culture taken over by a mormon white woman and then exploited for profit. Although coming from a small town that most people in my state even knows exists, I wouldn't really want stories made up about it because you kinda have to dispel some misconceptions. The stories either make it sound like hell to live somewhere boring or a lot quirkier than it actually is. It's just a city like any other basically just with fewer people.
I think if she used a made up tribe people would find that like disrespectful or offensive as well...
C.A. wrote: "I think if she used a made up tribe people would find that like disrespectful or offensive as well..."As I said there would still be issues, but at least they wouldn't be associated with real people. The stereotypes would still be there, the misconceptions would still be there, but at least it could actually be put under the excuse of "it's fiction" because it would actually be fictional. As of right now there's an actual tribe who is having to deal with a group of tourists and fans that aren't interested in learning the real history and would rather go about being ignorant about the whole thing — making them fictional eliminates one small portion of the issue.
KarmaSc0rpi0n wrote: "I wouldn't really want stories made up about it because you kinda have to dispel some misconceptions..."If you have to dispel misconceptions about vampires and werewolves from people's idea of your town, I think you need to walk away very fast away from them. I think it would be obvious that the fantasy parts aren't real.
Also, if you look at New Orleans, lots of fiction take place there, and they've kind of embraced it, all these fiction just adding more vitality to their ghost stories and urban legends, building haunted tours and businesses around it. One of the selling points of a walking tour of the French Quarter is that you might be inspired to read or write about it.
Most people will know that this is for fun and to spark your imagination (maybe for writing), and maybe get a few scares.
I completely agree with Nuran. I didn't think it was a big deal that in a fantasy/romance there fiction. A lot of writers take creative license with places, heck even major events and make up a story around them. Disney culturally has been doing this for years, and continues to do so.
Heidi wrote: "I completely agree with Nuran. I didn't think it was a big deal that in a fantasy/romance there fiction. A lot of writers take creative license with places, heck even major events and make up a sto..."Yes and Disney gets called out on it all the time. The Pocahontas Paradox:
A Cautionary Tale for Educators, Examining Racist Tropes in Disney Animated Films, Disney Movies and Racism/Pocohontas 1, are just a few and that's just regarding mostly Pocohontas, there's waay more for so many other films like Aladdin, Hunchback of Notredome, etc.
Also just because a big corporation gets away with something doesn't mean that should be the standard set, it doesn't make it any less wrong.
But it's like you said they didn't mean to, and that's part of the issue, that white privilege has been so ingrained that they don't think about the repercussions of misrepresenting an entire group of people because history has taught them that they have a right to do whatever they want with their culture, when they don't.
KarmaSc0rpi0n wrote: "But it's like you said they didn't mean to, and that's part of the issue, that white privilege has been so ingrained that they don't think about the repercussions of misrepresenting an entire group of people..."You need to read posts much more carefully.
She was agreeing with me about the point I made about places, not people. The point of that there's nothing wrong with setting fiction in a real town/place.
What you do with the people is entirely different...
I agree with your points - since she was putting in fictional culture that isn't true to the actual tribe, she should have just made up a tribe
Why'd it even have to be Native Americans at all? Vampirism isn't limited to any ethnic group, so why should werewolves? In any case, I think the answer is that Stephanie Meyer had some major problems with majorly outdated stereotypes when she wrote that series.
Liz wrote: "Why'd it even have to be Native Americans at all? Vampirism isn't limited to any ethnic group, so why should werewolves? In any case, I think the answer is that Stephanie Meyer had some major pro..."
I don't think she ever actually intended for there to be werewolves in the first place. She did minimal research about La Push, all she cared about was that it was near Forks and she looked up some local "legends" and misinterpreted them. Because Jacob's entire point in Twilight is to flippantly share his legends to Bella (which is already a no no in Native American culture in general along with his attitude because they aren't legends to them, their real and are taught it as though it's a religion) and tell her Edward's a vampire. In regards to Jacob in later books, he's mostly there back by popular demand. She had Forever Dawn which is basically Breaking Dawn and the reason there's such a disconnect between the middle book and the last one. Like you could read only the first and last book and things would fit together seemlessly because she couldn't let go of Forever Dawn. Anyways in that Jacob is almost a non-entity which he basically was at the end of series already.
Liz wrote: "Why'd it even have to be Native Americans at all? Vampirism isn't limited to any ethnic group, so why should werewolves? they not werewolves their skin walkers thats a native American legends.
Jerry wrote: "Liz wrote: "Why'd it even have to be Native Americans at all? Vampirism isn't limited to any ethnic group, so why should werewolves? they not werewolves their skin walkers thats a native American..."
But in the Quilleute legends? Not all Native Americans share the same beliefs.
Stories have power. Which is why she should have made up a tribe or chosen a big enough one where they could defend themselves easily. Stories have power. Thanks to Western Movies and books how are the Apache seen by most people today? They were all vicious murdering war painted tomahawk killing murderers. Which is slightly less weird than being a vampire killing werewolf guardian but...
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Now it's easy to see why Meyer took creative licenses — the Quilleute were nothing more than plot devices for her so she bent their real legends around her plot (poorly might I add). The (Mis)Use of Jacob Black in Meyer's Twilight Series and Smeyer's Use of Quilleute Characters are essays that point this out and where she went wrong with that by making them unbelievablable as Native Americans to people who actually are (there are some things she did right that is pointed out in the second essay).
But that pretty much begs the question of why didn't she just make one up, in fact why didn't she just set the books in a completely fictional town because she doesn't even make Forks sound believable. If she was going to go that far removed from the actual stories why didn't she use that imagination of her and dream up something made up? As it stands now she just took these people's culture misconstrued it and now it's being applied to real people. In fact the stereotypes she has in the book such as "savage Indian" and "sexy Indians" are now being applied to real people. Granted those stereotypes in general aren't good at all and neither is the not so subtle racism, but at least if she made a tribe up these things wouldn't be implicating real people. Also she wouldn't be profiting off of these people's culture. Sucking the Quilleute Dry, they profit off of anything beyond tourism meanwhile Meyer and the movies made/make money from using their symbols to which they can't claim and in that Truth vs Twilight link they don't seem happy about it.
Why didn't she just make up a fictional tribe up? It would have been better for those people and for Meyer herself when people try to fact check her. Saying "it's fiction" isn't a defense she can quite use because she chose to set her books in a real town near a real reservation with real people.