THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion
GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA
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Post 1945 Conflicts
Jonny wrote: "In yet another example of "You're reading enough, don't go near the library" I've now got to make space for
The Cold War: A HistoryCou..."
How can you ever be 'reading enough'!!!
Some chilling figures from
The Cold War: A History"It was generally accepted that even a counter-force strike (i.e. against military targets such as ICBM silos, airfields, naval ports and nuclear command-and-control centres) would result in massive civilian casualties - the so called 'collateral damage'. One major study suggested that both the USA and the USSR would suffer casualties in the order of 12-27 million deaths from a counter-force strike, while the estimated deaths from a counter-value strike (i.e. against cities and industrial complexes) would be 26-66 million in the USA and 45-77 million in the USSR (the wide ranges resulted from taking a variety of assumptions of the attack pattern and for weather and other environmental factors at the time of the attack). In both cases (i.e. counter-force and counter-value), further large numbers would have suffered longer-term radiation-caused cancers. The study report also stated that, in addition, there would have been many further deaths and injuries from indirect consequences of the nuclear attacks, such as riots, sickness, disease and starvation, whose numbers were impossible to calculate."
Quite chilling indeed Jonny!
Wrapped up
The Cold War: A Historyyesterday; just to temper the above horror post here's a more humorous story from Cold War Berlin:
"One senior Western officer went to sleep in his staff car on the autobahn between Helmstadt and Berlin. He awoke to discover that he was deep in the GDR. his driver having taken a wrong turning, and that his car had been stopped by a Soviet patrol. An English-speaking officer was sent for who, with only the slightest hint of a smile, politely enquired whether the Western officer was trying to defect. On being assured that this was not the case, he personally escorted the chastened Westerner back to the autobahn and sent him on his way to Berlin with a salute."
Oh, that’s funny! You have made my day with this post! 😁👌
Jonny wrote: "Wrapped upThe Cold War: A Historyyesterday; just to temper the above horror post here's a more humorous story from Cold War Berlin:
"One ..."
Great story! :)
Started on Bernard Fall's book, Street Without Joy, last night.Street Without Joy: The French Debacle in Indochina
Bernard B. Fall
Doubledf99.99 wrote: "Started on Bernard Fall's book, Street Without Joy, last night.Street Without Joy: The French Debacle in Indochina
[bookcover:Street Without Joy: The French Debacle in Indochina|4..."
A great book.
Doubledf99.99 wrote: "Started on Bernard Fall's book, Street Without Joy, last night.Street Without Joy: The French Debacle in Indochina
[bookcover:Street Without Joy: The French Debacle in Indochina|4..."
Like MR9 said, a great book. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
I'm reading it on a Samsung Tablet and the are maps displaying very good. It's a good read.
Doubledf99.99 wrote: "Started on Bernard Fall's book, Street Without Joy, last ..."Great book, you can reread it many times and still pick up new aspects.
It's been sat squarely on Mount TBR for a good couple of years now. Might be about time to dust it off...
Jonny wrote: "It's been sat squarely on Mount TBR for a good couple of years now. Might be about time to dust it off..."I think it would be well worth the effort Jonny.
Having read nearly all of Professor Fall's books at least once, I would most definitely have to concur with Rick's & Mike's & Manray9's comments above; any and all of his books are well worth reading...
For all the We Were Soldiers fans in January, this sounds like a good snack alongside the original book.
Ia Drang 1965: The Struggle for Vietnam’s Pleiku Province
Dimitri wrote: "For all the We Were Soldiers fans in January, this sounds like a good snack alongside the original book.[book:Ia Dra..."Should be a quick but interesting read Dimitri.
I knew Hal Moore, and my dad served with a few of the men who were in that battle. The film was actually good, keeping to the true story of the battle unlike many films. Mel Gibson did a great job of portraying Moore, and Sam Elliot was also top notch.
It is a pretty good movie and the book is one of my favourite books on the Vietnam War.
I also liked The Odd Angry Shot, but not sure how accurate it is in detail. I served with a senior NCO in the 1980's who worked alongside Aussies in the Delta, and I knew a few more contemporary soldiers and SAS guys also in the 1980's. My admiration for the Aussie fighting spirit, like the British (I still know some of those guys), has never diminished.
Colin wrote: "I also liked The Odd Angry Shot, but not sure how accurate it is in detail. I served with a senior NCO in the 1980's who worked alongside Aussies in the Delta, and I knew a few more contemporary so..."The Odd Angry Shot was released when I was still in the army in 1979. Back then it was received with a pretty good response but I don't think it has aged well. Thanks for those kind words about the Australian soldier.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079652/...
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "The Odd Angry Shot was released when I was still in the army in 1979. Back then it was received with a pretty good response but I don't think it has aged well. Thanks for those kind words about the Australian soldier."
Long time since I watched it but I recall one scene where the troops ran over a bridge and there was "No parking" yellow lines Queensland style painted both sides.
4ZZZ that wouldn't surprise me, It was fairly low cost and I think there are a few bloopers! :)Goofs from the movie:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079652/...
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "4ZZZ that wouldn't surprise me, It was fairly low cost and I think there are a few bloopers! :)Goofs from the movie:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079652/..."
Sharp eyes some people. Says the lines were white but I was stretching my memory.
I see it was filmed around Cunungra. Lovely part of the world. I presume you may have spent a bit of time there Rick? I was involved, many years back, on a bird study of the local farms that the army had bought back to integrate into their training facilities. They looking to have the land reforested and part of the rejuvenation was what local bird life came back. Plenty of Lantana and Scotch Thistle that needed to be removed back then. I would be curious to see it all now but it is a restricted area.
Canungra Jungle Training Camp wasn't my favourite place but it was interesting 😀
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Canungra Jungle Training Camp wasn't my favourite place but it was interesting 😀"Ouch :-)
That is interesting; I didn't realise until just now that the British Army Jungle Warfare School at Kota Tinggi in Malaysia closed down in 1971. For some reason, I was under the impression that command had been simply turned over to the Malaysian Army in the late 1970s or early 1980s, and that all Commonwealth forces in the region still trained there until at least that time...
The Kindle price finally dropped below my self proscribed amount, so I'll be seeing what Paul Ham thinks of his countrymen's experiences in SEA (probably in the spring)
Vietnam: The Australian War
Jonny wrote: "The Kindle price finally dropped below my self proscribed amount, so I'll be seeing what Paul Ham thinks of his countrymen's experiences in SEA (probably in the spring)[bookcover:Vietnam: The Aus..."
Its a book that I really enjoyed Jonny so I hope you do as well.
I have a really biiiig hard back edition of Hams tome sitting in the book shelf. I really must get into it soon. Let me know when you start Jonny and if able I will get into it at the same time.
Heard some good stories about Aussies in Vietnam.
Colin wrote: "Heard some good stories about Aussies in Vietnam."From the reads of it Aussies leave only good stories in any war, as long as you're not a monocle-popping moustache. :-D
Dimitri wrote: "Colin wrote: "Heard some good stories about Aussies in Vietnam."From the reads of it Aussies leave only good stories in any war, as long as you're not a monocle-popping moustache. :-D"
No good stories about the Japanese eating Aussies on New Guinea.
fourtriplezed wrote: "I have a really biiiig hard back edition of Hams tome sitting in the book shelf. I really must get into it soon. Let me know when you start Jonny and if able I will get into it at the same time."Mutt plan is to start Ham toward the beginning of February 4T... If you've got the decks cleared by then?
Jonny wrote: "Mutt plan is to start Ham toward the beginning of February 4T... If you've got the decks cleared by then? "All good with me. I might actually make a start this weekend as I have large illustrated hard back edition so will not be taking that anywhere out of my house. This will not be a fast read for me.
Been plowing into Ham's tome this Australia Day long weekend. A very easy read though Ham has an opinionated style of presentation that is normally not for me but so be it. I now realise that I know more about this war from a US perspective than from my own land. The last chapter I read was called The Montagnard Chief and was about Captain Barry Petersen who Ham describes as a Colonial Kurtz type character without the madness. I found this chapter fascinating. He has had a book written about him called the Tiger Man of Vietnam and is by Frank Walker a well respected Australian author and journalist. I think I will be looking to get this one eventually. The Tiger Man of Vietnam Frank Walker
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Started this over the weekend. "A Street Without Joy" is one of my favorites so I can't wait to get further into this book!
Brent wrote: "Started this over the weekend. "A Street Without Joy" is one of my favorites so I can't wait to get further into this book!"An excellent book, Brent.
fourtriplezed wrote: "Been plowing into Ham's tome this Australia Day long weekend. A very easy read though Ham has an opinionated style of presentation that is normally not for me but so be it. I now realise that I kno..."Really glad to hear you are finding Paul Ham's book interesting. I have a copy of the book; "The Tiger Man of Vietnam" but I am yet to read it.
Jonny wrote: "Joining 4TZ inVietnam: The Australian War"I hope you find it an interesting account Jonny, keep us posted.
Jonny wrote: "Joining 4TZ inVietnam: The Australian War"Very interested in your eventual (or ongoing) thoughts Jonny. As an Englishman you may view this a bit different than me. The author has put a large chunk of his own opinion in that you may find interesting. On a personal level it is not my style of history presentation, agree or disagree with a point of view.
I am really struggling to enjoy Ham's tome and I feel very uncomfortable.
THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP
Books mentioned in this topic
The Angel of Dien Bien Phu: The Lone French Woman at the Decisive Battle for Vietnam (other topics)The Korean War: 1945-1954 (other topics)
Korea: War Without End (other topics)
The Vietnam War: A Military History (other topics)
The Angel of Dien Bien Phu: The Lone French Woman at the Decisive Battle for Vietnam (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Allan Reed Millett (other topics)Allan Reed Millett (other topics)
Richard Dannatt (other topics)
Geoffrey Wawro (other topics)
David W. Cameron (other topics)
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Could be mildly misnamed; looks like it's more like development of systems, but I'm game...