Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
This topic is about
The New Mrs D
Women's Fiction
>
For Days When You Feel Like Giving Up
date
newest »
newest »
Good for you, Heather. Just because a publisher might not believe in it doesn't mean it isn't any good. Congratulations and best of luck!!
L.F. wrote: "Good for you, Heather. Just because a publisher might not believe in it doesn't mean it isn't any good. Congratulations and best of luck!!"Thank you - this is so true. You just have to keep going if you know that all there is inside of you is this unsinkable desire to write. XXX
12 rejections? I got to 70 and then decided to go the Kindle route. But I'm finding that I (shock of shocks!) have to promote the darned book. And I really have little desire to be a promoter.
This puts me at a decided disadvantage to people who just love to write five or six hours a day, then promote five or six hours a day. Then read five or six hours a day. And then drive all over attending writers' clubs, dropping off business cards and book marks...
Congrats, Heather, and good on you for believing in your story!After listening to many authors from both sides of the publishing spectrum, indie and traditional, talk about their experiences, even some who are with a Major, I can see no advantages for a new author to look for a publisher!
Even the writers who were best sellers with a Major and like being there floundered when queried as to how the publisher has helped their books reach the market. They had to do it all themselves and bear all the expense. They did get some advice, but even that was sometimes charged as a draw against book sales. Any bookings the publishers set up the writer bore the expenses. Any advances they got went straight to their personal marketing work.
Now there are writers like Holly Lisle who have been there, done that, been successful and are happy to share what they've learned for free or at reasonable costs.
The writers lost final say over their final product. A couple have convinced their publishers to release them from contracts and will now publish indie.
It's a new world. When publishers stopped treating writers like the precious talent that keeps publishers in business and started treating them like a commodity . . . well, their loss.
It's a time of flux for writers.
But isn't it always?
Dennis wrote: "12 rejections? I got to 70 and then decided to go the Kindle route. But I'm finding that I (shock of shocks!) have to promote the darned book. And I really have little desire to be a promoter.
..."
Sigh. So true.
Dennis wrote: "12 rejections? I got to 70 and then decided to go the Kindle route. But I'm finding that I (shock of shocks!) have to promote the darned book. And I really have little desire to be a promoter.
..."
I went to school for marketing, but this book promoting is really something. Believe me, I feel your pain!
Dennis wrote: "12 rejections? I got to 70 and then decided to go the Kindle route. But I'm finding that I (shock of shocks!) have to promote the darned book. And I really have little desire to be a promoter.
..."
Hi Dennis, I have read a lot of stories about authors having 70 or more rejections and I don't know if I could have waited that long to be honest. I think marketing is awful; I'm really not good at selling. I'm a writer. But then, I want to have people read what I'm writing so I guess it is all par for the course. I love what I do and I just can't stop trying to get there. I have no desire for fame or fortune, I just want to reach people with my work. If it sounds sap to some, well, so be it. This is my truth :) I'm just going to keep going the best way I can.
I had 35 rejections spread across three continents :- o) (Australia, Europe, America) and because I live in Sydney and the subject of my novel was set 12,000 miles from Sydney, I self published (not through Amazon or a commercial self publisher), as a paperback and a few months later as an e-book. It was the e-book that was picked up by a UK publisher (Pen and Sword) who re-issued the book last year under a new title and cover. So all I can say is keep on plugging and read the comments from publishers who rejected the likes of Animal Farm (It’s impossible to sell animal stories in the US), and consider that C. S. Lewis received 800 rejections before he sold a single piece of his writing. How many bad days did he have ????
Margaret Mitchell gets 38 rejections from publishers before finding one to publish her novel Gone With The Wind, it sold 30 million copies, and is still selling.“An irresponsible holiday story that will never sell.” Rejection of The Wind In The Willows by Kenneth Grahame. The novel sold 25 million copies worldwide.
Perhaps we have to be dead before we become popular :- o)
Renee wrote: "...After listening to many authors from both sides of the publishing spectrum, indie and traditional, talk about their experiences, even some who are with a Major, I can see no advantages for a new author to look for a publisher!..."Can't say I agree with you. How an author decides to publish is an individual choice. Each has there pitfalls and each requires commitment by the writer.
To completely discount tradition publishers seems unfair to those publishers. They must have done some things write to have their current stable of successful writers. There are many writers who would be quite happy to have their books published traditionally.
If a writer wants complete control of his work and the marketing required to sell it - then self-publish. If they are unable to handle rejection then they should definitely stay away from traditional methods. They will have complete control and be fully responsible for their own success with self-publishing.
Given the wide variety of people writing today - I think there is definitely room for both types of publishing. My preference as a reader tends toward the professional quality of traditional publishing.
I think there is room for both and I agree with everything you say Renee, except on the point of professional quality. There are a lot of poor quality books out there, granted. But I personally spent a lot of money getting my novel edited, proof-read, I even had a manuscript report and paid a designer. All of that was hard for me, but I'm not going to ask anyone to invest in my book when I haven't. Not all self published books fall in to that category. Give some self-pubbed books a chance X
Christine wrote: . . . If a writer wants complete control of his work and the marketing required to sell it - then self-publish.You're going to have to do all the marketing yourself if you're traditionally published, so that's moot.
" . . .If they are unable to handle rejection then they should definitely stay away from traditional methods. They will have complete control and be fully responsible for their own success with self-publishing."
"Unable to handle rejection" comes across as condescending and I'm sure you didn't intend that. What if I turned that around and remarked that using a publisher was best for people who didn't want to take responsibility for their own work? Unfair generalization, right?
For me, it IS about creative control. The integrity of the story, in its entirety, is everything for me. I've seen too many struggle with their publishers and wind up compromised, having to either accept ludicrous covers, absurd pricing and, to add insult to injury, not even be able to get books delivered to them from the publisher for the writer's own, self-generated and financed publicity events. Not to mention the typos and mistakes that weren't there in the original manuscripts. It has also taken far too long to get the finished product (after professional editing paid for by the author before sending it to the publisher) on the shelves, virtual or physical.
Publishing is changing, and right now the key seems to be Author Beware. The day may not be too far off when what we can count on the major houses for is keeping the shelves stocked with Twilights, Various Shades of Something and My Name is So Big I Have a Stable of Writers to Do the Actual Writing For Me books — no risk involved. You can't fault them for that; they are, after all, corporate entities existing for the sole purpose of generating large incomes.
Check around and look at the established authors flirting with — and some committing to self-publishing. They aren't being loud about it, with the possible exception of Stephen King, but they're out there.
I decided to go with self publishing because blogs and posts here on goodreads described some publishing nightmares. I wanted to be able to keep control. The self-promotion thing is tough though.
Yes it is. I saw this message and checked out the opening pages of "Run". It's good. Maybe we could help each other a little with this tough self-promotion thing. I'm two months into it. Befriending good writers is part of my strategy! Reading and reviewing their books in the hope they'll read and review mine is another part. Perhaps you'll check me out and see what you think? It doesn't hurt to ask, right? I'm in touch with some really good writers already... http://bit.ly/1ovvJ6U http://bit.ly/1txSk63
Yes, self promotion is tough and I am constantly trying to be where my audience is. I am an author of two children's books and sometimes I feel lost in a sea of dizzying fantasies and color. Still, I remind myself of the truism of promoting any product...and yes, a book is a product. You have to find your customers, your buyers and pitch to their needs and/or desires. My favorite saying these days is: It's about the journey." I love what I'm doing and as I meet other artists, musicians, writers and candle makers, they keep on plugging, with this belief too.
By the way, check out my two children's books, Taj Cleans the Garage and Malcolm Mows the Lawn. Both are books about little boys whose chores turn into exciting adventures. Available on Amazon(of course) and http://www.theprewittgroup.com/books/
Then again some people are blessed with the ability to sell a lot of books. I'm not saying it's luck and I'm sure they have done work to get their books out there, but I've known people who have not really done that much more marketing than others and theirs takes off. I definitely feel like giving up, but I don't want to stop writing.
Renee wrote: "By the way, check out my two children's books, Taj Cleans the Garage and Malcolm Mows the Lawn. Both are books about little boys whose chores turn into exciting adventures. Available on Amazon(of c..."I've checked them out and they look fun! Did you know that they're currently unavailable in the Amazon.co.uk kindlestore? I was interested that your reviews highlight the teaching points and the good messages. That links us, though obviously my books are for older children...
One of my favorite rejection stories is for Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I believe it was 189 rejections. Then one editor said basically he liked it but it would never sell. Here's your small advance. Thanks for giving me food for thought.That said, I think self publishing is better than small press publishing. If you know someone and can get a meeting at a large publisher or agent of course go for it. Otherwise I wouldn't waste my time anymore.
Biggest problem I have as a new writer (after finishing one) is coming up with a new story. I have many ideas and jump on some of them, but I kill most of them off early on if I don't like the story or am not motivated enough as I was with my first story.
One item that really helped me is this blog post by Kristine Kathryn Rusch, which I first saw excerpted on Forbes online. She says the more books you have available, the more chance you have to build a following and start selling your books. I totally agree.
Promotion is necessary, of course, but writing is just as important if not more so. I'm promoting little by little, but not letting it get in the way of working on my next book.
What's more, I'm find that the more I write, the more ideas I have for new things. I like that!
I waited until I got to the 600 mark (presistent or stubborn??) before self publishing. Hopefully these cover updates might move copies (they're very dated). These books have been in print for a while (one is 10 years old). I'm glad your books are doing well!As for marketing, I'm horrific at it (flunked twice). I can't sell snow to an inuit. >_< I just keep hammering out books...
Thanks everyone for taking the time to comment and leave all this great information. Off to check out these blog posts. I too am AWFUL at marketing. I'd rather be writing, but it seems it is a necessary evil for all authors - book deal or no book deal :-) Good luck everyone XX
Karl wrote: "Publishers are rarely able to tell what will sell. I remember reading that Gone With The Wind received more than 30 rejections, and it's one of the historically bestselling English language books."Lol omg, I really hope not!:))) but you are so right, I just keep sending query letters to publishers and agents, some of them politely say that my book is not what they are currently looking for, some just don't reply, so it's very easy to lose hope. But thank God I have very supportive friends that keep telling me to keep trying and keep marketing my book because they really enjoyed it. So every morning when I wake up I remind myself that it doesn't matter if I fall seven times, I'll get up eight:)))
Let's make our books bestsellers just to prove those publishers wrong!;)
Ellie wrote: "Karl wrote: "Publishers are rarely able to tell what will sell. I remember reading that Gone With The Wind received more than 30 rejections, and it's one of the historically bestselling English lan..."That's the spirit, Ellie!
I wish every self-published author well. You can't look at specific events (rejections)and give up. You have to look at the totality of your work. One very small thing could lead to something bigger. No one should give up. I had 90 rejections from literary agents for my historical fiction novel, Raping Aphrodite, which is set against the 1974 invasion and division of Cyprus. In 2011, I uploaded it for Nook and Kindle e-readers and, in 2012, published it as a paperback through Createspace. In two months, I will upload its prequel, "Delicate Secrets," and a third book is in the back of my mind. I am terrible at marketing myself and the book, but I wrote it, there have been some sales and five years ago, when I first started writing "Raping Aphrodite" I couldn't have known I would be on here telling anyone about this. Every day, people, just keep going. Don't let literary agents or publishing houses be the gatekeepers for your work. Take control and don't quit. Ever.
Dennis wrote: "12 rejections? I got to 70 and then decided to go the Kindle route. But I'm finding that I (shock of shocks!) have to promote the darned book. And I really have little desire to be a promoter.
..."
LOL. Yes it does, Dennis. Who are those people?! What great energy they have! For the rest of us we must be happy doing what we do... best wishes to your success!
Heather wrote: "After twelve publisher rejections and several agents calling my new comedy novel for women 'unmarketable', I self-published The New Mrs D with agent assistance and reached the Amazon UK best seller..."Congratulations Heather!! While my self-published books have found only modest success thus far, it is the act of creating, publishing, reading a review, knowing I completed my project that keeps me loving this process... Keep going!
Congratulations Heather. Self-published or traditional, I'm a firm believer that every writer should continue to bring the stories in their head to life. Be it a rejection from a publisher or a bad review if you self pub, don't see them as a barrier to your success. They are learning tools!
Today I got my very first one star review for the book - in Australia. On the same day, it went to no 4 in the best sellers 'humour' chart there and no 14 in 'women's fiction ' overall. I was expecting a mixed bag of reviews - comedy is soooo subjective, so I am actually surprised to have gone two months without my first one star review. But it feels no worse to me than all of those rejections. Today, my book is outselling 'Fifty Shades of Grey' and 'About A Boy' in Australia. I understand the Australian site is quite new and small at the moment, but this still feels like a lovely achievement. The rejections and the bad reviews - they are just opinions. You HAVE to concentrate on the positive to keep going. I love to write and I don't intend to let anyone discourage me. Robin you are right about the learning tools and Patrick has hit the nail on the head. Allowing yourself to create in your own, inimitable style is reward in itself. I don't deny I write to make money, but all I wished was to be able to pay the bills and have room to breathe. The love of writing in itself is intoxicating. I'm 43 and at last and for the first time ever I love what I am doing. I wish you all the very best of luck and thank you so, so much for the encouragement. It means the world X
Robin wrote: "Congratulations Heather. Self-published or traditional, I'm a firm believer that every writer should continue to bring the stories in their head to life. Be it a rejection from a publisher or a bad review if you self pub, don't see them as a barrier to your success. They are learning tools! ..."
It pays to consider the source, too, especially of a bad review. When I see a snarky review of someone's work that is, itself, poorly written, without grace or wit or often even basic wordcrafting skills I chalk it up to someone with an chronic ego problem.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestseller...