Stephen King Fans discussion
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11/22/63
Buddy Reads
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11/22/63 Buddy Read -No spoilers please until we are done! :-)
I may just re-read this with ya!! I am reading The Night Circus, and if I can finish with it before then I will.
How long are you planning on taking to read th11-22-63, I am still in the middle of reading the stand as a group read but would be interested.
LOL, thanks Mikaela and Mr. Books for the replies.As far as how long I plan to take, it depends on how much I read daily. That all depends on how tired I am, how good it is, and how much time I have. :-)
Normally I don't like fat books like that, so I hope it's a page turner. (Speaking of long books, I thought Under The Dome was WAY TOO LONG, along with Wizard and Glass in the DT series)
But if I were to guess, it will take me at least 2 months. I plan to start this Sat 7/22 or Sun 7/23. It's been hot & humid, which makes me tired. So I can nod off even on a page turner!
This thread is for folks who already read the book, even if it wasn't recently, but still want to discuss it. :-)
I like anything to do with time travel, and this sounds different from his usual horror type of novel.
It's a fantastic book in my opinion. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
Yes it is far different from his normal style of writing. It is a great book and well worth the time spent reading it. If you think Under the Dome and Wizards and Glass were to long then I would avoid It and the Unabridged version of the Stand.
The longer version of the stand is great though. More often that not its a pleasure to spend that much time in a Stephen King world.
I agree I love spending time reading his books unfortunately I have read them so often I am finding it hard to go slow with them now as I am so familiar with them.
Hopefully we won't have to wait too long for a new one. I know he has sleeping beauties coming out, but I hope one of his own won't be far away. The Mr Mercedes TV show might keep me going for a bit.
I'm currently over 700 pages into the book. This book is a brick, but it's a journey. This book will change your life!
Okay, I'm picking up the book today.Mr. Books, UTD was over 1, 000 pages! I see 11/22/63 is not quite that long, and if it's a page turner, then I'll fly through it. I didn't find UTD to be that way, and I actually liked the TV show better.
I didn't know they were making a TV show about Mr. Mercedes. I haven't read that one, but I have a good friend who drives a Mercedes. And I've teased him about it after I heard about the book.
FYI, when new books come out, I wait awhile before checking them out. Not just for King, but any author. This is cause the queue will be long, which means I won't get to renew it after 3 weeks since there's a waiting list.
There's no way I can read 800 pages or so in 3 weeks, even if I did nothing but read which isn't possible! I think UTD took me 3 months to read!
Kev, What's Sleeping Beauties? Another King book? Good heavens, he writes SO MUCH and SO FAST, LOL!
Looks like I got the right edition posted in this thread. Now I'm going to add it to my current read. Here I go on my journey.
P.S. I thought the Dark Tower series was a real journey, and even now I still think about Roland and his ka-tet.
Hot, humid days coming....good weather to just read an hour or so each day. :-)
The TV series Under the dome was alright for the first season after that it was rubbish in my book. Any weather is good for reading Wise Cat warm sunny weather out side relaxing with a good book the same with hot humid and sunny weather. Rain in side with a cup of coffee. Cold weather the same but you can switch the coffee for hot chocolate if you desire.
Daniel, how long did it take you to get to 700 pages???Okay, I'm up to a whopping 60 pages over the weekend. I'm already looking at my pantry through different eyes. ;-) (Ever since I read the DT series, I haven't looked at doors the same way)
The bottom of my utility or storage closet in the kitchen is raised slightly from the floor, and I put my foot on it, LOL. I know it can't support my weight so I wouldn't stand on it. No "steps" leading somewhere. :-)
If it's not giving away too much, can anyone tell me how Al aged so fast??? Or does this get explained? I hope it does, but it may not so I'm asking. I'm guessing time moves faster when one travels back in time? I don't know...
Mr. Books, I liked your member name. Appropriate! :-)
Weather affects my energy. I have to be alert to read, and if it's hot, and esp. humid, I get drowsy and nod off, no matter how great the book is, LOL.
I don't have a nice place to relax outside to read, so it's indoors for me. :-) Coffee is great; I'm a coffee drinker.
Does anyone who read this, or will be reading this, actually remember 11/22/63? :-( I was a toddler so I don't remember this. But I heard how popular he was when I got a bit older.
I do remember the RFK assassination, as well as MLK.
I agree that the first season of UTD was good; I think it was the best season. Personally, it could have worked as just one season 13 episode series if they didn't insist on dragging it out.
Hi wisecat. Sleeping beauties is a book He's Co writing with Owen King. It's due out in a few months.
Hi wisecat, I am old but I was young when Kennedy was assonated, only 4 so I don't remember any of it. Thanks for the name like. I was tempted to put bookbum but it didn't sound as good.
mrbooks wrote: "Hi wisecat, I am old but I was young when Kennedy was assonated, only 4 so I don't remember any of it. Thanks for the name like. I was tempted to put bookbum but it didn't sound as good."I was a junior at Notre Dame, sitting in comparative religion class and a kid came into the room and said, "The president's been murdered." Everyone was so stunned that they just sat there. The prof looked up, mumbled something about Kennedy being brought to the campus for his funeral, and then just went on teaching. I guess he didn't know what else to do. I was too stunned to move. For the next three days, all that television broadcasted was events surrounding the assassination, nothing else. That's why almost everyone saw Jack Ruby shoot Oswald, TV was covering his transfer between prisons when Ruby just walked up and shot him. It seemed as though everyone in the world loved Kennedy. The feeling in the nation was one of pride and joy for many of us, I think. Every time you thought 'Hey, Kenney's in the white house,' it just made you feel good.' Vietnam hadn't heated up the way it would later and turn into a national nightmare that just kept getting worse and culminating in Nixon. As stunned as we were, things didn't go to hell immediately in America. People somehow went on with their lives. Everything else was in place and so many things were now named in memory of JFK. Some of us thought it was maybe just a stand alone tragic event. If you want to capture the feeling, watch the Dick Van Dyke Show, a lot of people thought it mirrored the good times... Camelot.
Mr.Books, we're around the same age. :-) I was about 3 when JFK got assassinated, so I don't remember that. Unfortunately I do remember the later ones of RFK and MLK.I was going to call myself "Bookworm" but since I like felines and people say I'm like a cat, I decided to be a wise one. :-)
Nick, Thank for you for sharing that. I know my parents told me when I was older how popular Kennedy was. Those old sit-coms do mirror those good times. I watch a lot of those.
Speaking of those times, boy were things so cheap! But the quality seemed to be anything but! I wish I could go back to 1958 and buy a lot of food REAL cheap, then bring it back, LOL.
I even remember when root beer used to be much stronger when I was a kid. It's so WEAK now. :-( Watered down a lot.
Wise Cat wrote: "Mr.Books, we're around the same age. :-) I was about 3 when JFK got assassinated, so I don't remember that. Unfortunately I do remember the later ones of RFK and MLK.I was going to call myself "B..."
As King says in 11/22/63 everything tasted better but smelled worse.
Wise Cat, that is a very good choice for a name, Cats are often under estimated but all you have to do is look at them and you can tell they are thinking. What they are thinking is how best to mess with there pets, for they own us not us owning them.
I absolutely loved this book. I think its one of his better books. I myself had a hard time getting into the dark tower series. I hope you enjoy
Nick, LOL. I'm not sure if the EPA existed yet?? Also, people could smoke anywhere, even on airplanes!! I don't believe they discovered the dangers of second hand smoke till decades later.Thanks, MrBooks! Do you have any cats? I love cats but can't have pets in my building. You're right that we don't own a cat; they own us. People who are "dog" people think cats are inferior, but they are not! They are different. I love dogs too BTW.
Well, folks, I'm about 130 pages into it. I'm going faster than I thought I would. Someone really pissed me off yesterday, and I thought "I have to escape to 1958. Time to go through that portal". I'm at the part where things aren't QUITE the same his second time through.....
Thanks, Linda. So far, so good. I'm enjoying King's humorous side, as it has light moments. What a writer!
Hi Wise Cat, yes I have two cats, well ones mine and one my daughter left to us long and sad story behind that. I don't mind dogs they are loyal and dependable, but I love cat for there independence. Cats only do what they want to do and look on dogs as there inferiors. I wouldn't mind using the portal if it would let me choose the time I could go back to. I was thinking maybe around 30 to 40 thousand years ago. Before man go over active in his inventing. The thought of being able to see all those animals that are no longer around like the Mammoth and the saber toothed cats. to see an unspoiled earth and to see how man lived in harmony with the earth would be something.
Yeah, Mr Books, I like cats because I can relate to them. :-) For one thing they are very aware of their surroundings, they don't like change, and they need to get used to new people or other new stuff. They like to sleep, and so do I, LOL.Only thing is I'm not noctural like they are.
Off topic from this thread, (but it's my thread, LOL) but if you want to escape to the past, you might like the Earth's Children series by Jean Auel. There's 6 books. The first is Clan of the Cave Bear. It takes place during the Ice Age, and yeah those mammoths, and saber-toothed cats are around! I'd recommend it to anyone who is weary of technology, and if you want to go back to a simpler time.
No portal, but I sure got lost in that series. :-) No Facebook, no Twitter, no cell phones, no cars, etc. Humans are definitely a destructive species, no doubt. I'm sure humans won't be around a century from now, maybe sooner.
Back to 11/22/63, I felt silly after reading the first pages when I discovered it was the CHARACTER who "is not a crying man". LOL, I thought it was a foreword by King himself. Talk about spacing out! Ha Ha
Hi Wise Cat This will make you laugh, I am normally the one to recommend the earth children to others. I call it my guilty pleasure because it is chick lit but it is well written. If there was one complaint about the series what would it be in your eyes. When I mentioned Mammoth and saber toothed cats I was actually thinking of the series. the only one that irritated me was Land of the Painted Caves, if you are going to end the series do it on a clear ending not in the ambiguous way she did. That is my personal opinion I had a friend who felt the same way, we use to always talk about the series until she slipped her mortal coil. Now alas I have no one to discuss the finer points of the series. My favorite characters would be Rydag and Wolf, followed closely by Creb and Mamut.
It has been a few years since I read 11-22-63 so I will have to look up the reference. As far as humans not being around, if a certain president of ours has his way you are absolutely right he is trying to a war with everyone I think.
So you read Earth's Children already, Mr. Books.If I had one complaint, it's that Auel was too repetitive. How many times does she have to tell the reader about Ayla's "strange accent"? The first book is enough. We get it, and so do the people she meets.
And her bond with the horses and the wolf was repeated over and over.
Land of the Painted Caves was too long, and Auel went into much detail about the caves. I found that hard to follow; I struggled through it. I thought the ending was clear, as Ayal became a Zelandonni (spellng?) or spiritual leader it seemed.
I loved the animals, as well as Iza, Creb, and others I can't remember now. It's been years since I read the last book.
So, you HAVE read 11/22/63 already? Yeah, I know I'm late to the party, so thanks for being willing to re-read it. It seems like a great book to discuss when I'm done, since it's so LONG!! I'm only up to page 150 or so.
I wish I could time travel back and forth like that though. Some of the stuff of the 50's I don't know, like the "lingo" they used. I'm glad King is explaining that "the war" is WWII, and "Give me some skin" is like giving a high-five today.
You must be talking about Trump....but you said "President of ours has his way". Your profile says you're in the U.K. :-) But I know you're our ally, and the rest of the world is watching as well.
Hi Wise Cat, What I dis liked about the earth children series after the Clan of the Cave Bear is how every 5 to 10 chapters gives you at least 2 pages of Ayla's history. Once in a book is fine just incase someone has picked it up out of cycle thinking it is a stand alone book. I mean really does she have to put it in five six and seven times in a book. I am cheating a little on 11-22-63 I am listening to it on the computer at work. I am in the middle of a book Nick wrote and have 2 to 3 other books in the wings waiting to be read, so this is my compromise. I have to remember to keep the volume low so when the swearing breaks out I am the only one who hears it LOL.
Yes I said president of ours, I Have retired from the USAF and now live in the UK with my wife and all my kids are here as well. I am an American citizen and work on base and am paid in dollars. I still get the privilege of paying taxes as well aren't I lucky LOL. If I am lucky enough to live for another 7 years I will be allowed to collect Social Security as well as my retirement check. Then I will be truly free of having to work and can spend much more time reading. Until then though I still have to work a 40 hr. week so I can buy my books.
At first, in hindsight, I thought that might have been a typo Mr. Books. :-) Like you meant to say "that President of YOURS", LOL. He's not "my" President. ;-)I'm about 200 pages into 11/22/63 now, and even though I'm loving it, it's not what I thought it would be. I'll wait till I'm done before elaborating what that means, LOL (In case anyone else is reading it, even though I'm late to the party as I said above. Thanks for rereading it, as I think you're the only one so far who is reading along)
I agree with you about Auel's repetitiveness. None of the books can be read as a stand alone in spite of that. There's too much history in each one, so many characters and events that happen.
Who's narrating 11/22/63? I could never get into audio books, since I don't have a quiet place to listen to them. And sometimes I don't like the narrator's voice.
WOW! I loved the narrator of 11/22. Sounds like Albert Brooks though I'm sure it's not. I thought it was a great narration. This book is way up on my list of the best of King.
Okay folks...FYI I have just about 70 pages to go. So I'm finally in the home stretch and eager to discuss when I'm done. :-)Where is everyone else?
I have some questions that will hopefully be answered by the time I finish, but I know that may not happen as I've found from some of King's books!
If so, I'd ask what some of you think, what your theory is......
Wise cat ask away when you are ready we will do our best to answer your questions.
The reason Al ages so fast is that when you are in the past you are still aging. Even though you pop back into the now at the moment you left, you've aged however long you were back there!I love Auel's books too, and agree with every complaint you guys listed! I skim over some of the repetitiveness.
Okay, I finished this finally on 9/11th. Took me around 7 weeks, faster than I thought I would go. I found it a tad long and had to take a break a day or two now & then.I just finished writing a review.
Kandice, thanks for explaining how Al aged...I jumped the gun, as I found out the reason once I got farther into it.
So....what is the "butterfly effect"? Is that like saying "ripple effect"?
What does "the past harmonizes" mean?
What did Jake/George mean by Sadie's complete name being so close to Doris Dunning isn't a coincidence? Is Sadie a "different version" of Doris, since they look very much alike and are both smokers??
The thing Jake said about going back through the rabbit hole I didn't get at first, as I thought it was a one way trip after Al died. I mean, they would lock up/board up his diner after that, or demolish it. So I didn't get how the rabbit hole could still be there.
Even if it were, he would come back to his time trapped in the locked up diner.
Well, I got my answer near the end when I (as I suspected) found out there's more than one rabbit hole. There had to be.
I didn't think he was going to tell Sadie the truth, and I was sure if he did she wouldn't believe him!
I also thought he didn't REALLY save Kennedy, because it seemed by doing that, other things got out of whack.....
This book also reminded me somewhat of the Dark Tower, since at the end the Green Card Man said all of reality can fall apart if Jake doesn't go back and "make it right." Similar theme to the DT! And I couldn't help thinking about the OTHER Jake, and I wondered if this is the ADULT Jake even if his last name is Epping and not Chambers. I mean it seemed there was another Jake in another world in the DT books. You also had Eddie die in one world but live in another.....
Does anyone know what "January 2, 2009 - December 18, 2010" refers to on the last page?????? Is this referring to the time it took King to write this? It also says below that "Sarasota, FL Lovell, Maine." Was that where he wrote this? It doesn't explain!
And I don't get why the Green Card Man says he isn't a guardian when he's observing and warning anyone who comes through the rabbit hole!
I did like the ending, but I thought this would be different.....From the title, I thought Jake would either travel back to that day, or at least that YEAR. I would have liked to have seen Oswald "fleshed out" way more, and more of Jake tracking him and maybe even speaking to him.
Also, Jake didn't just go back to save Kennedy, he went to save Harry from his abusive dad by killing him (the first time?). But in that version or world, Harry goes on to live just long enough to die in Vietnam. Jake also saved others from a terrible fate.
It wasn't a complete reset each time, as the dialogue was just a bit different when he went back to Kennebec Fruit for example.
King did a good job on the romance part with Sadie, esp. for someone who isn't a romance writer per se!
The last 100 pages or so is what I thought the WHOLE book would be like....Not sure if I liked Jake/George killing Oswald in one of his trips back. That puts him down to Oswald's level, killing someone in cold blood even if he is going to kill someone else. That's why I thought he was going to talk Oswald out of it.
As you all know, JFK wasn't saved ultimately, cause it seemed Jake's multiple trips created multiple strings or realities..like he "caused" this big earthquake in L.A. AND, the 2011 he came back to was not only in Al's diner like before, but somewhere else that sounded like real dystopia!
Boy, it feels good to get that all out! :-)
Anyone who has already read it years ago, please do post your 2 cents if you feel so inclined. :-)
Wise Cat wrote: "So....what is the "butterfly effect"? Is that like saying "ripple effect"?..."Definition: The butterfly effect is a concept that states "small causes can have larger effects".
Have you ever read A Sound of Thunder: Bradbury Thirteen: Episode 1? Perfect, perfect example and a terrific story to boot! King sites it as an inspiration.
The past Harmonizes, means what you alter in one place in the past it will alter in another place. When Al saved the girl in Main from being crippled to harmonize someone in Vermont was injured instead. The dates at the end of the book refer to the writing of the book as do the places.
"I tell my students about Chaos Theory and The Butterfly Effect, you know, the one that suggests that a butterfly flapping its wings in Argentina can set off a whole chaotic progression of subatomic events that eventually help bring about a tornado in Kansas."
That's it I am getting rid of all the butterflies in Argentina that way we won't have tornado's in Kansas and Dorothy won't loose Toto and Find Oz, she can then stay at home with Aunty Em.
mrbooks wrote: "That's it I am getting rid of all the butterflies in Argentina that way we won't have tornado's in Kansas and Dorothy won't loose Toto and Find Oz, she can then stay at home with Aunty Em."Good plan mrbooks.
Sorry, Kandice..I haven't read A Sound of Thunder: Bradbury 13, but I know I liked Ray Bradbury. (I'm assuming Bradbury refers to Ray; I don't know of another offhand) Guess another item to add to my ever growing list of books to read!Silly me, I thought "harmonizes" means everything fits together nicely, like when voices or instruments have great "harmonies" in a song, LOL! In this case, changing one little thing changes other little things.
I do wish King had spend time on the aftermath of the assassination, in "both" scenarios: Kennedy surviving, and not surviving. Also, I would have liked it more if Jake went to 1962 or early 63, closer to the date. 5 years before was a bit draggy for me.
At least Oswald was more 3 dimensional to me, as he was a real person even if this is a novel. It's still historic in nature, and up until now, he was just a name I learned in school: The identity of the killer, nothing more. But something led him down this dark road, and I actually thought Jake would get to KNOW Oswald and talk him out of it.
What do you all think of the Yellow Card Man and Green Card Man? They say they are not guardians, yet they both tried to stop Al and Jake because they "don't belong there."
If someone told you they were from the future, would you believe it? I didn't think Jake would tell Sadie, and certainly not believe him! I'm glad he found love, but it's also sad that she couldn't come back to 2011 with him.
I guess that would be too "neat" of an ending, too convenient and easy. There has to be consequences of time travel right?
Anyone have a theory on what Jake/George meant by Sadie's complete name being so close to Doris Dunning isn't a coincidence? Is Sadie a "different version" of Doris, since they look very much alike and are both smokers??
BTW, I got the "Georges" mixed up, as there were two Georges in addition to Jake's alter ego, George.
Nick, I never heard of the Chaos Theory. What is that?
Wise Cat wrote: "Sorry, Kandice..I haven't read A Sound of Thunder: Bradbury 13, but I know I liked Ray Bradbury. (I'm assuming Bradbury refers to Ray; I don't know of another offhand) Guess another item to add to ..."From Wikipedia: Chaos theory is a branch of mathematics focused on the behavior of dynamical systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions. 'Chaos' is an interdisciplinary theory stating that within the apparent randomness of chaotic complex systems, there are underlying patterns, constant feedback loops, repetition, self-similarity, fractals, self-organization, and reliance on programming at the initial point known as sensitive dependence on initial conditions. The butterfly effect describes how a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state, e.g. a butterfly flapping its wings in Brazil can cause a tornado in Texas.[1]
Not that easy to understand, is it?
LOL true Nick, I found the explanation helpful. I got almost as much from the original Jurassic Park movie. Wikipedia is great, but sometimes it's to long winded.
So, Chaos theory is central to one of my books "Avenging Adelita," and according to that definition, after quite a bit of research, I got it wrong... missed the part about underlying patterns. Another rewrite due, I guess.
It depends on whether it is a factual story or not, the advantage of writing a book is you can have things mean what ever you want. Chances are if no one has said anything then it has not been picked up on. If anyone does say anything you can call it poetic license. if there is such a thing in literature that is.
mrbooks, I was also going to site Malcolm's explanation of Chaos Theory in Jurassic Park! It was pretty perfect.
Great minds think alike Kandice
MrBooks, you're right that Wikipedia can sometimes be too long winded.This theory is over my head, LOL. Dumb it down, LOL. :-)
Another thing about 11/22/63: If just 2 minutes past in Jake's time, no matter how long he lives in the past, how come 2011 had gone to pot when he came back near the end of the book?
He came back in some (I think) abandoned gas station in a smelly bathroom...And he had that confrontation with the thugs.
If time travel were possible, would any of you want to do it? If so, would you want to go the future? Or the past? How far back (or forward?)
You probably all heard of the grandparent paradox. It goes something like this: You go back in time to stop them from meeting for some reason. Therefore, you are not born. But if you're not around to go back and change the past, they end up meeting...therefore bringing you back into existence.
Hence, the past is set. King used another word but I can't spell it.
Wise Cat wrote: "MrBooks, you're right that Wikipedia can sometimes be too long winded.This theory is over my head, LOL. Dumb it down, LOL. :-)
Another thing about 11/22/63: If just 2 minutes past in Jake's time..."
Simple answer (view spoiler) I think the word you are looking for is Obdurate, the past is Obdurate meaning it doesn't want to be changed and it will to be blunt put up a fight.
Thanks, MrBooks. :-) How did you get that "spoiler" code or link in there?There was SOME residue since Sadie knew something was different about Jake/George. And when she was an old lady, she did ask him, "Don't I know you?"
Wise Cat wrote: "Thanks, MrBooks. :-) How did you get that "spoiler" code or link in there?There was SOME residue since Sadie knew something was different about Jake/George. And when she was an old lady, she did ..."
Remove the spaces, but you post a spoiler this way:
< spoiler > blah, blah, blah < / spoiler >
Thanks, Kandice. I'm technically challenged at times. :-)
I really thought there would be more discussion about this book. :-) I know I'm years behind in reading it compared to most people.....
If anybody wants to read (or re-read!) this with me, then discuss, please post!
I'm not that fast of a reader, esp. with something so FAT. I'm not sure if I picked the right item number (ISBN) yet but I can edit when I actually get the book.
I meant to read this much sooner, so I can't believe it's now 6 years later after I once said, "I'm going to read that one next."
It's just that there's so many books I want to read, not just by King.