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How are you supposed to tell if a story's worth writing before you write it?
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Matia
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Jul 14, 2017 04:10PM
Ideas and inspirations can come easily and instantaneously and abundantly, but crafting them into novels from there can take years. How do you decide which ones to pursue? You can't spend the time to finish all hundred of them - the workload would exceed your lifespan! Everyone keeps encouraging aspiring writers to keep writing and write what they think of anyway, but in this modern market where anyone can publish a book and there are millions of stories, you'd think everything's been written before - so why bother adding to it? There's no single, easily searchable plot database you can use to check if it's already been done, so how are you supposed to know? Then there are the publishers and even agents, who turn down nearly all submissions no matter how interesting they might be when actually read all the way through; who can only be sold on the most compelling, unique, groundbreaking novels, if they're nothing like anything they've ever seen before - or in other words, if they're marketable and appealing to a mass demographic. There should be a way to test a premise or scene or theme or idea with a large audience, without risk of plagiarism, to see what kind of demand there is for it. If it gets an enthusiastically favourable reception, then you'll know it's a safe bet to proceed with production; but if its welcome is lukewarm, then you might as well put it on the backburner, and instead work on a better prospect. Of course, it's all dependent on numbers; if only five people give their opinion, it won't be an accurate example of the majority. Does anyone know of such a hub? Someone should start a place like that.
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Yes, I know a place like that. It's called traditional publishers. They have gatekeepers that only read through a small percentage of what is submitted and then a smaller percentage of that gets published.The point of indie publishing is that now, we don't have such gatekeepers telling us what we should or shouldn't like. Who has the right to decide if a book is good enough for publication besides the authors themselves?
For me personally, I write whichever of my ideas is clamoring loudest for attention. I don't worry too much that someone else has the same idea because likely, hundreds of authors have had the same idea, but I can guarantee none of us have told our story the same way twice.
Mod
Even then, just because an idea has been written before, it doesn't mean that writing about it is plagiarism. If you want to write a book about kids that go to magic school, then you should. Have fun with it and make the idea your own.
As for testing the market to see if you idea is... just write what you want to write. There will be more passion in it, and people that get it, will love it. You don't need to be a mega-success media machine to write. :)
Might work for some folk, but sounds a tad assembly-line to me. If I worried about being popular, I wouldn't be able to write. Most of my ideas are a little... off-kilter, shall we say, and I'm under no delusion that I'll ever have anything approaching mainstream fame. I'd rather carve out a little corner for myself for people who want something a little different. IMO better to write something less safe, that I was really "into", yet got less response than write something I felt blah about but got a fantastic response.
Mod
One thing I do is come up with an idea and then leave it in my brain. I do not write it down for a while, not one word of it. Right now I am busy with a work in progress that will probably be published in October. Meanwhile, I am tumbling around with at least a half dozen ideas for the next big project. Some are percolating nicely. One in particular gets built on in my mind every day. Others have stagnated and I am barely giving them any thought. So, that's my first step. I'm my own gatekeeper. If I can't keep excited or keep thinking about a project, it's probably not time to write it, yet.
When I do start a project, I can generally tell before the rough draft is finished if it's worth continuing. If I do not feel excited, if I am not in love with the characters, if I see too many plot holes, etc. then it gets shelved. (I never fully give up on an idea).
Every book, to some extent, is borrowing from some other book, movie, TV show, etc. Often times we're borrowing from many sources and may stories. This is fine, as long as you do not blatantly steal specific ideas from other books. Yes, you can write about a young boy in 19th century Missouri who whitewashes fences, becomes involved in a murder mystery, gets lost in a cave, and so on, just be sure the details of the story do not mirror Tom Sawyer. I think it would be nearly impossible to plagiarize without being aware you're doing it. Everyone knows that West Side Story is a retelling of Romeo and Juliet but aside from the same basic plot, they are very different.
I'm going to echo what CB and Chris are saying. What you're suggesting feels like paint-by-numbers writing. Yes, you insert character A into plot B and add in villain C because you've found people will want to read it, but there's a great chance it's going to lack heart and soul, making it a dull read. Personally, I am aware that people are craving things like dragons, vampires, wizards, and the like and I have thought about writing those things, but I don't have a strong passion for it, so I think it is better I don't attempt it until I have an idea that really excites me.
I write the ideas that won't leave me alone, involving those characters that want to take over my head space. It's the only way I can get rid of them and get them out of my head; I need to write those stories. I don't worry if the ideas will sell. There is ALWAYS someone out there who will enjoy the story as long as it's well written. That's why I genre-hop; those of my ideas that are strong refuse to fit into a box, so I refuse to worry about it.
Write because you love it. Who cares if it has mass market appeal?
You need to love what you write. That's what will show. And that's what your readers will enjoy.
If there's many ideas, like others have said, it's the one which shouts the loudest.
I've not released books 6 & 7 yet, but already I have x4 others which are pulling on my brain strings.
But there's one which is starting to stand out, and is forming already. I'll go with that one.
Just sit down, start to write.
You will soon get a feel for whether or not it is something you wish to carry on with.
xx
You bring up a lot of different issues so let me just pick off one for now ......there are the publishers and even agents, who turn down nearly all submissions no matter how interesting they might be when actually read all the way through; who can only be sold on the most compelling, unique, groundbreaking novels, if they're nothing like anything they've ever seen before - or in other words, if they're marketable and appealing to a mass demographic.
In every creative field the business side and the artistic side are two very different beasts.
Take the visual arts for example ... There is almost ZERO connection between what is creative, serious, high quality, thought provoking art and what sells. The business side is a commodities market based solely on perceived value and collectability of a given artist's work. There are, of course, "gatekeepers" and authorities in that world who have extensive knowledge of art history, curation and all that who advise collectors but essentially it is a market prone to hype and absurdity.
Likewise, traditional publishing utilizes gatekeepers (agents, editors, etc) who keep their eye on market trends, and who have an eye only for bottom line sales. They're not hired to find new literary talent, they're hired to find mass market trends and to feed those trends as fast and furious as they can.
Both the music and book industries used to be run by people primarily in it because they love it and who were motivated to find "the next big thing," as in real talent. Not so anymore. The people you're dealing with are low to mid-level corporate managers embedded in mega-corporation business structures.
So, your choice, as I see it, is to either try to out-game the system by finding and writing to popular trends early enough so that you can capitalize on the bubble before it bursts...OR...write what really captivates you--what you'd want to read--and work hard to write it very well, and work hard to market it yourself; and pray that you find an audience before you die.
If you throw something at the wall with enough oomph, something is bound to stick.
Pamela wrote: "There is ALWAYS someone out there who will enjoy the story as long as it's well written. That's why I genre-hop; those of my ideas that are strong refuse to fit into a box, so I refuse to worry about it."Words to live by right here.
Matia wrote: ". . . How do you decide which ones to pursue? You can't spend the time ...Of course, it's all dependent on numbers; if only five people give their opinion, it won't be an accurate example of the majority. Does anyone know of such a hub? Someone should start a place like that"
I don't know of such a hub of expert opinions, but if you find one, proceed with caution. Proceed with caution whenever someone/something promises results.
Mod
I don't know much about it myself, but I've heard of authors using Wattpad to test the waters with their story ideas, released one chapter at a time. I have also heard the audience is primarily YA. Maybe something to look into?
Yeah, I percolate too. I do find that some ideas keep recurring to me, and add to themselves over time, whereas others I completely forget about - so I suppose that's an indicator of potential interest. I never give up on an idea, either, and always hope that someday I'll be able to work it into a story that'll do it justice.I don't mean asking an "expert" opinion; I mean asking a large number of readers, directly, and see what they would actually be interested in reading. Writing for oneself is all nice and fine, but the purpose of books is to be read. If a book falls open in the forest, and there's nobody there to read it...does it really exist?
As I mentioned, I have more ideas than I know what to do with - so if one of them happens to be something that people would love to read about, I'd consider it a delight to bring it to them all the faster, by setting it as a priority to work on first. So - what if we try it out here on goodreads? If I post the premise for one or more of the book ideas I have, would everyone be willing to vote on whether they found it intriguing?
Matia wrote: "So - what if we try it out here on goodreads? If I post the premise for one or more of the book ideas I have, would everyone be willing to vote on whether they found it intriguing? "Starting your own group is a great way to gauge interest in such an endeavor, but polling and workshopping your idea will need to be done outside of Support Indie Authors.
Mod
I know it has been tried before. I will tell you that. And I must put on my Debbie Downer hat and tell you that I don't believe the people trying to put such a thing together had any success with it. I remember one poll where someone asked people what kind of books they'd like to read and they had a long, long list of things -- none of which interested me at all. So, if you do this, try to remember all genres.
Others have found that readers aren't often willing to go into great detail as to what they're looking for in books. Many readers, too, are already finding the kinds of books they like.
I'm certainly not trying to talk you out of it, but I am saying it will be a lot of work and success with it may be a long time coming. But, yes, if you are willing to put the effort into it, maybe you should start your own group here on Goodreads and see where you go with it. Best of luck!
The question raised is how are you supposed to tell if a story's worth writing before you write it? I agree with Dwayne that asking people to vote on a premise will get you nowhere. There is more to a story than just the premise. Also there is little point in writing a first draft before you evaluate whether it is worth proceeding. There's too much investment involved in time. One suggestion is to write your own one page 'proposal' to yourself as if you were submitting it to a third party. Leave it for a period of time and then try to evaluate it as objectively as you can. In other words you need to try to think like a gatekeeper.
When in doubt, there's always the chuck-n-duck strategy. It is widely implemented in many offices around the world. I can understand if you're wary about it if you're spending money. But if you're not, what do you have to lose?Basically, chuck it out there and duck for cover.
You can try asking, but people do lose interest, change their minds, or are too busy by the time the idea results in a published book. One example is the group reads in GR: a lot of people will vote for a book and not read it, for any variety of reasons; and that is with a speedy process: voting time to reading the book. I think writing what interests you the most is the best long-run approach. *And to one of the original comments: even if every idea *had* been captured in a published book, not everyone will have read it, so you will find new readers. Good luck! :)
*Adding: of course interest may double, quadruple if you know people are interested in the idea. So now I think it's definitely something to think about! :)
Oh, one thought about gauging interest: learn the industry, both trade and indie. It's an open book, no pun intended; lots of info out there! :)
As I think of this, as described, it's really a version of brain-storming, so I'll do a 'qualified' 180. :) Yes, go for it, put up a poll or whatever. It is a form of support/feedback, and that happens all the way through the process. Ideas are exchanged, feedback given on this or that (think a version of Beta). So for sure, if you have half a dozen ideas and are taken by all of them, try it as a way of selecting! If it works, it works; if it doesn't it doesn't. Like everything else, you won't know unless you try. Put up a poll. :)
I base mine off which characters are talking to me at the time. Because if an idea is hitting me but the characters are quiet it's not the time to write that one. I've started novels with only one character talking to me and they walked through the woods for a bit before the story hit.
It's not the story itself that makes it worthy. It's the way it's written, the way it's presented to people. You may have two identical stories told by two different people. One you'll like and recommend to friends while the other might leave you 'meh'. So until the piece is written, no one can tell you if it's worth writing or not.
As others have said, don't worry about whether it's worth writing. If it excites you and is a good story, write it. If you worry about whether it's worth writing, then you will never write anything. If you find the story interesting, others will. How many? You never know, but until you write it and publish it, you are doing nothing but wasting time. I don't worry about if it's worth writing. Instead, I worry about if I told it in a good manner others will enjoy reading. Does it have all the elements to make it complete. Are the characters likable/hated/3-D, etc. Is the situation something others can relate to? Things like that.
Plot it out with the main points of the story and if it's something you'd read about, then write it. Quite worrying and write. Worry about the marketing. That will have more bearing on who sees it and reads it.
Mod
Hmm, I have more finished than unfinished....but I do have multiple WIP in various stages of editing and publishing. I learned that to insure finishing, I need to outline and have the story worked out with all the associated parts then I write and deviate greatly from what I outlined...lol. You got to go where the characters take you. during editing you can change everything and redo the plot even. If you don't start, you can never finish and if you never finish you'll never publish. Have fun with it unless you are specifically writing for money...then develop a formula for the popular books you want to copy and follow that. It's like the old Harlequins...you knew before you started to read exactly what to expect other than names and locations.
Telling if a story is worth writing depends on your goal. Do you have a message to send? Do you have an entertaining idea? Are you trying to write a moneymaker? A literary gem?There's no one answer. You need an idea with sticking power. If it really doesn't interest you, you're best off letting that idea go.
If you're pantsing it, you need to have a really strong idea, character, or conflict that is going to carry you through to the end.
If you're planning it out, then you will probably know by the time you finish your brainstorming and outlining process whether it is going to come together or not.
If you're trying to write a bestseller or literary gem, then you're going to have to do some market research. Maybe a lot of market research. You need to know what works for the genre or subject you are writing. You need to know the tropes and what works and what doesn't. You need to look at the other books in that market space. Figure out your niche and your marketing plan. There is no unified database or prebuilt market test group. You have to do the legwork yourself, just like anyone developing a new product.
Why do you choose to write? It's hard to answer your question without knowing which angle you're coming from.Like many have already said, I don't write to sell books; I write because I enjoy it. Any story I'm passionate about writing is "worth writing". If I can sell my stories on top of that, great--icing on the cake, but that's not what I even consider when trying to figure out what to write.
But I suspect that's not the answer you're looking for.
Thanks for the advice, everyone! I guess I'll just write as many of my best ideas as I can, and see how it plays out. I might try a poll, too, just to test the waters insofar as that.
I apply a very simple test: If someone was telling this story over dinner would it hold the listeners' attention?How we had a great holiday isn't nearly as interesting as how our vacation turned into a dash across four countries by train, bike, camel and Zeppelin. Apollo 13 made a better movie than 11, even though the mission was technically a failure.
To me it's handling the unexpected, coming up with left-field answers, and dealing with the impending catastrophe that make stories worth telling.
G.G. wrote: "It's not the story itself that makes it worthy. It's the way it's written, the way it's presented to people. You may have two identical stories told by two different people. One you'll like and rec..."So wise! ;)
I'm sure this has been said before. But it bears repeating. Write the story you would want to read and write it as well as you can. Then you will have a worthwhile book
Jane wrote: "I'm sure this has been said before. But it bears repeating. Write the story you would want to read and write it as well as you can. Then you will have a worthwhile book"Since the author probably reads the manuscript at least a 100 times during writing and editing this is very sound advice-ha:)
Jane wrote: "I'm sure this has been said before. But it bears repeating. Write the story you would want to read and write it as well as you can. Then you will have a worthwhile book"So true! That is exactly why I started mine. :)
Sadly, there's really no way to tell. Here's what I do: I keep what I call a "writing journal," which is a journal I keep on my computer of story ideas. When I get one an idea, I draft a short story from it and save it to the journal. If it continues to develop in my mind, I continue to expand on it. If not, I keep it saved in case I can use it in the future for another potential project, or use it as a scene in another story. I started this journal in February and so far have drafted one novel from an idea, and see another entry with potential for future development. Sure, there's a lot of crap in that folder too, but that's the point of the journal - it's a testing ground for ideas, so they don't have to be good.
Mod
I did that for a while, too, but gave up on it. For me, it came to writing down so many ideas... and then finding that I hated most of them a month later. It felt like a waste of time. I'm glad it works for you. Shows to go ya, there's no one right way to write!
Outline a complete story idea. If it doesn’t grab you or you don’t see a story unfold or map out, change it up. Try again. Add conflict. Make sure your MC experiences a strong emotional arc or transformation.Your outline is flexible, a guide. Once you start writing, story will emerge. You can ditch the outline at this point, if you really hate outlining. Your story is happening. A structure is in your head now. I like to keep changing the outline as my WIP progresses. No writers block this way.
You can waste more time deciding what to write and studying trends than actually completing a first draft. A first draft can be revised into a great story with great characters. Layers can be added.
All writers (successful traditionally published, self-published, and novices alike) learn and improve from writing stories. There is no wasted effort. No one knows what will break out. But your writing will definitely improve if you keep writing.
There are no short cuts.
Just keep writing.
Just write it. Even if it turns out when you've finished (or when you stop halfway through, or when you look back at it a couple of years later) that you don't like the story anymore or don't want it to be published you will have gained writing experience that will help you improve your craft. Just the practice putting words together is worth it!
Write a premise (hero must do x in order to avoid y) and the first chapter, your hook. Give your results to friends and family and ask for honest feedback. You might also think about joining an author circle like Critique Circle.
All the above advice is good. I was turned down by small and larger publishers because my work was considered "too niche". Having self published recently, I'm gaining an audience which tells me a different story. If a trad publisher came to me now I would reject them. I'm having the time of my life writing what I want to write and seeing if that works with readers. Keep on with it!
May be ideas could be tested in a writers' group. Write a chapter or two, submit the work to a the group about two weeks in advance, then read the product at the group meeting. If members are honest in sampling the material, and have some knowledge of the genre presented, this could be a form of gate keeping. Nevertheless, ten readers can never be representative of the masses out there in reader-land. So may be, story your ideas together in manner that you feel really good about and let the outcome be decided by the readers who will pick up your novel.
Encouragement to continue writing will come from number of sales, but it does not have to be a best seller.
Write. Who cares? Write.You don't need a reason to write. If writing brings enjoyment to you, then write.
If your motivation to write is to make money, then you do need to do some soul searching. That's a heavy lift. Very few authors make money and that includes traditionally published authors.
Every idea had been written? Sorry, but that's not true if you are willing to look beyond contemporary and middle age fantasy and fairies. Sci-fi for example, you can invent things. You can introduce alien races. You can pick from many future alternatives, or go back a little (steampunk). And try to rely on your 'innocent' imagination, without the influence of media and hyped books. I, for example, imagined this character I'm writing about when I was like 12, and only recently, 1-2 years ago (when I was 20, now I'm 22), have I thought of writing (along with reading, so I could learn). I am not a native english speaker, nor do I have a grade, but I am really proud of my learning progress, and hopefully this draft I'm writing will be the last. (Story is more or less the same as on first draft, which I'm glad I came up with before I read some books, but I struggled with paragraph flow and style). I am not the fastest writer, now when I know how the paragraphs should look like, but I'm actually hoping to find an agent, as opposed to my initial plan to self-publish. I'm not too much of a selfconfident person, but for the first time I did something, I dare to hope. (Yes, I think I can say my idea has never been written before. Only perhaps fragments of it, which no book can be spared of.)
Write what comes from the heart not what someone else wants.
if it's been written yours has a different spin on it so it's unique.
never give up on your writing and never think your writings not good enough.
if it's been written yours has a different spin on it so it's unique.
never give up on your writing and never think your writings not good enough.
Mod
In a sense, it is. Every book has had an inspiration behind it, perhaps many. No story idea is wholly unique. Now, yes, it is possible to take elements of so many different books and stories and mash them together in a way that feels unique, but there will always be traces of your inspirations in there. Aliens certainly are not a completely original idea. Generally, aliens resemble humans or some kind of earth animal or at least something we're familiar with. Their agendas seem a bit limited, often times wanting to war with other aliens, ally with them against a common enemy, coming to humans with some kind of peaceful message that is supposed to help humanity, coming to enslave humans or what-not.
My criteria for if a story is worth writing: is it something that doesn't exist and I wish it did? Am I excited about it? Does it look fun to write?If it checks those boxes for me, that's all I need. If people read you having fun with an idea, they are likely to enjoy themselves too.
John wrote: "My criteria for if a story is worth writing: is it something that doesn't exist and I wish it did? Am I excited about it? Does it look fun to write?If it checks those boxes for me, that's all I n..."
+1000
Write for yourself first. It would be a terrible experience otherwise.
Agreed Edmund, & John. You have to be the first person who loves the story.
Noor wrote: "Just write it. Even if it turns out when you've finished (or when you stop halfway through, or when you look back at it a couple of years later) that you don't like the story anymore or don't want ..."Absolutely agree with Noor... I hadn't written fiction novels for a very long time. But this idea for a story kept circling my brain and would not go away. Like a vulture not giving up on its prey. It was a juicy topic and a true event in my life. But, I had doubts about it from a self-ethical standpoint. Would it be right to write about it?
Still, characters began to form in my head. I took names for a test-drive. And the opening hook of a line crafted over and over.
Finally, I cracked open the laptop and began writing. I wrote a great bit of it. I still had scary doubts about the cast of players in real life possibly reading it. And some parts were too emotional to get through. I finally stopped about halfway through.
Then I began writing a different story--just a chapter as a surprise spy story for my husband who was going away on a trip. And that flourished and took over. And became the first book I published!
But because that initial novel started nagging me, it got me to the keyboard. I may not finish it or I may approach from a different angle. But I don't consider it a waste of time.
We always come away from each experience learning something.
Edmund wrote: "Write for yourself first. It would be a terrible experience otherwise. ..."Well stated, Edmund!! Hugs
