For the Lovers of R&R (Contains Spoilers, Don't Read Unless You've Read The Whole Book)

[Rachel]

Several of us who absolutely love Ruin and Rising decided we needed a place to discuss it with full spoilers with others who love the book. This is not a thread to read if you've not read the book. Please refrain from posting about why you hated something about the book, if you want to do that you could post it on one of the other threads. This thread is dedicated to those who love this book.

I'll just repost some of my posts from the other thread here, to get the conversation going.

"Yikes, I can't imagine willingly reading this thread before reading the book. Please, people. Save yourselves and don't continue to read, leave the surprise!

Seriously, if you've not read the book *please* stop reading now. Right now.

I'm not joking, I mean it.

Now, what I thought of the book... There was so much I loved about it, but I'll just mention what I can think of off the top of my head for now.

Nikolai: I loved it when she introduced his character back. I loved to hear about his air ship and I just knew the stories had to be true, and then when he saved them... *feels* I also loved how him and Baghra fought, but you could tell they liked each other. I cried so much when the Darkling turned him, and continued through the rest of the book. I could hardly stand it when he came to Alina, tried to get her to heal her, and then tried to eat her. And especially when he put the ring on her hand and bowed. It was just too much! I love Nikolai, and just seeing him tormented so, but still trying to be himself... it was painful. I felt bad for him at the end, with all that he has gone through, and he does care about Alina.

Grisha: I loved that Genya, David, and Zoya were left in charge, and continued to visit Alina at the orphanage (along with Nikolai). While I hated Zoya so much before, this book really made me like her more. Her sass was great, she grew a lot, and I was extremely happy when she told Alina that Mal had always been faithful to her, even when Alina and everyone else thought he was running around with any girl that caught his attention. I was also so very happy that Genya redeemed herself and that her and David ended up happily together. I felt so bad for Harshaw. He was mad, but I liked him more because of it.

The Darkling: I love that we learned more about him, including his name. While I always hated his evil, there was still something about him that was intriguing. Learning more about his past was sad, and it was sad when Alina killed him. She had to kill him, she had no choice. I believe he loved her, no matter how twisted he was, so it was really sad when he realized he was truly alone. I agree with those of you who liked that she didn't kill him with her power, but as a otkazat´sya. It was something I didn't expect, and for him to be brought down with her as a otkazat´sya when all she worked towards was to grow stronger and with it being her power that attracted him to her.

Alina and Mal: Wow. I was so surprised. I loved Mal and Alina as a couple, but after Siege and Storm I was really worried about them. I knew they really loved each other and would be a great couple, but they had to work through some things first, and I'm happy they did. They both went through a lot in the first two books, and I'm happy their growth reflected that. I was shocked about Mal being the amplifier. When Alina realized it I still didn't get it until she told the others, and then I didn't know how the book could end with them defeating the Darkling, destroying the shadow fold, and Alina and Mal ending up together.

When Mal made Alina kill him I couldn't cope. Couldn't breathe, couldn't sob. I was just sorta choking. And then nothing happened. Mal was dead, Alina lost her powers... I didn't know what to think. I thought it was brilliant when all the otkazat´sya became sun summoners. It was perfect. The ending made me so sad, but also so happy. I loved that they opened the orphanage back up and doted on the kids. Alina walked around barefoot and painting the walls. I loved that Genya, Zoya, David, and Nikolai visited. And it was just so sweet and perfect when Zoya, of all people, gave her the kefta and told her she would always be one of them.

There is a lot more, but I'll leave it there for now. "

"Alexandra wrote: "YES, to all of the above! I forgot to mention how much I loved Zoya in this book. By the end of Siege and Storm, I never thought I'd say that.

Here is what I think about this whole "love quadrangle" thing between Alina, Mal, Nikolai, and the Darkling...."

Ooh, I agree with your post so much! I agree, I've never understood how people can hate Mal or don't see how much he and Alina truly love each other. Sure, I understand getting mad at Mal, I did myself in Siege and Storm, but I knew they were both going through a terribly difficult time and would make mistakes. They just had to learn to get through it, and I believed they could.

You describe the Darkling's feelings for Alina so very well. When I said he loved her in a twisted way I didn't go into it, because I had other thoughts on my mind, but you described perfectly what I was thinking, better than I could have. "

If you want to read them in context go to this thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Hannah]

I agree with practically everything you wrote. Here are my thoughts on everything.(Sorry, be prepared, I jump around a lot in my thought process)

I really liked this ending to the series. There was so much character development. Can I just talk about the Darkling for a second?? I love his character, now that I can look back on him without worrying Leigh would give into pressure and put Alina with him. He is such a fascinating character, honestly. I would read a full book about him. I pretty much used to think he was just an evil pyschopath (or perhaps a high functioning sociopath), but there was such a new, fleshed out new dimension to him in this book. You saw many more glimpses of his human side. I mean, you got some in S&S, but it really showed in this book. He is such a complex bad guy, I loved it. His death was just so well done. I mean, when he begged Alina to say his name when he was dying, it was just...sigh. And nothing makes me happier than the fact he didn't end up with Alina. He's a great character, and his chemistry with Alina was interesting, but I did not want them to end up together. I'll sing the praises of Malina in a minute, but first, let me talk about my love, Nikolai Lantsov.

Oh, Nikolai. My precious baby. I love you and your sense of humor that never fails to make me smile and then your emotional side. When the Darkling turned you into a nichevo'ya, I was just heartbroken. I was reading in the car when I got to this part, and I just sat there and stared out my window. And when you came to Alina and recognized the ring and tried to get her to heal you... my poor heart. I'm so happy with where you ended up, though. You are going to the best king Ravka has ever seen!

One more quick paragraph before the Malina feels come out. Let's talk about the side characters. Genya, David, and Zoya were so great. I loved David's speech to Genya, and when they finally got to together, I was so happy on their behalf. David is such a ball pf unawarness and awkwardness, and I love him for it. Genya is so tough, even after everything that happened to her, and I appreciate a strong character like her. Zoya's sass throughout this book made me so happy, I actually like her now! Didn't see that one coming... The last side character I'm going to really talk about is Baghra, that old ball of crankiness and heartbreaking backstory. Her death made me so sad, but her sacrifice was so beautiful, and the Darkling's reaction to it seemed so necessary to the story. Ok, now I'd just like to mention the few other side characters I loved: Nadia. Tamar. Tolya. Misha. God bless you all.

Finally, we get to my great love, MALINA. Why, why, WHY do people not appreciate these two? I have seen so many complaints that they are "weak" or "selfish" I don't think they read this book. Come on, Mal gave up his life for the good for Alina and Ravka, and Alina had the strength to take it. IF THAT IS NOT SACRIFICE AND STRENGTH... They were willing to give up everything to save Ravka. How DARE you tell me they are weak!(Apologies, I'm passionate on this subject) I've also seen complaints about them as a couple. I think they are a great couple. See the above sentences for why, and add in the fact that they love each other. THEY LOVE EACH OTHER, OK? I don't think I could honestly see them with anyone but each. Each book started out with them, the boy and the girl. It's only right the last book should end like that, too. And that ending... oh my heart. I was so happy. THEY GET MARRIED! THEY RUN AN ORPHANAGE! HOW PERFECT! The last line made me ridiculously pleased. "They had an ordinary life, full of ordinary things- if love can ever be called that." I love that line. Love it, love it, love it. Malina forever. Thank you, Leigh for not giving into peer pressure and putting Alina with somebody else. Honestly, I don't understand how people don't like Mal, at least as a character, after reading this book. He is a great guy. Sure, he made a few mistakes. So did Alina. But that's why they're such realistic characters. They're flawed. They don't always do the right thing, just like real people. But we love them anyway.

So yeah, that ended up a bit long. Sorry! I really did love this book. My only complaint is that some parts were a bit slow, but that's not a huge issue. I really hope people appreciate this book, it really is a great ending to a unique trilogy!

[Carina]

Hi Rachel :D Thank you so much for making this topic. <3 I would love to for once be able to talk about my love for the book without getting hate about it in return, lol.

Beware, SPOILERS.

Anyway. I love your thoughts about Ruin and Rising :D Sigh. Nikolai. I do love him. Truly. But I hated him with Alina :p To me, Mal was the only choice for Alina, hih :) But omg, yess. It was so heartbreaking what the Darkling did to Nikolai. Sniffs. But so perfectly done too :)

Sigh. The Grisha. I ADORED Zoya. She was perfect to me, hih. Loved her so much. And Genya. And David. They were just so cute and adorable. Sigh. HARSHAW! I loved him to pieces. It broke my heart that he died. Sobs.

But that part about Mal. I ALWAYS knew he would never be with anyone else after he fell in love with Alina. But I'm glad that now everyone else knows it too. <3

(I must say that I never liked the Darkling. Sigh. To me, he was always just an evil villain. WHAT HE DID IN THE BOOKS. The hanging tree! NOT OKAY. I would never forgive that. And I LOVE that Alina didn't even think about forgiving him for what he did to Genya and Baghra. <3)

Mal and Alina. Sigh. They will ALWAYS be my favorite couple. They fit together so well and they are so damn adorable, hih :D I love them to pieces. <3 Mal is my favorite character. Sigh. I loved the ending too. SO GOOD. I was never mad at Mal in Siege and Storm, though. I understood him so well. He was hurt and heartbroken. Alina sort of threw him away. I hated her a little in that book. Sigh.

Psst. I wrote a very long review where I talk about my feelings, hih. Not including everything here, so if you want, you can read that. And my favorite quote on my blog. DIES. It was so perfect. Sniffs. <3

[Carina]

Hi Hannah :D lol, I love your thoughts. Especially this: "And nothing makes me happier than the fact he didn't end up with Alina." LOL. I'm glad you loved the Darkling, yet understood he wasn't good for Alina :) Sigh. That makes me so happy. <3 I was thrilled when he died, to be honest (A)

Nikolai. Yeah. I adore him too. Just not with Alina :D

I talk about the other characters above. <3 But yess. I loved them all so much too. I'm happy you did :) I knew I would start loving Zoya. When Leigh said she was her favorite charater, hih :) Omg, yes. I loved them all. BAGHRA! I adore her.

MALINA. I HATE what I have seen other people talk about them. It makes me SO ANGRY. Because Mal and Alina are PERFECT. They are flawed, yes, BUT PEREFCT. And perfect together. They are the best couple. Sigh. And to me, all the books were about their love for each other. They are perfect. And I love them to pieces. And I'm SO GLAD they ended up together. <3 Always. Sniffs. It was so beautiful. I just have to say that my favorite scene was the one on the floor, hih. It was so beautifully done. So sweet and hot and just perfect. Sigh. :)

[[deleted user]]

It's so amazing to get insight into the Darklings past. It puts everything he did into perspective, and makes me understand (and even sort of relate to him) I'M NOT SAYING WHAT HE DID WAS OKAY but the best villain is one you can relate to. I thought the ending was perfect and beautiful. My faith in Mal and Alina was completely restored and I'm so glad they got their crap sorted out. :)

[Alexandra]

HI FELLOW LEIGH LOVERS! Thank God Rachel created this thread!

Anyway, here is what I posted in the other thread before my head exploded:

Rachel wrote: "Yikes, I can't imagine willingly reading this thread before reading the book. Please, people. Save yourselves and don't continue to read, leave the surprise!

Seriously, if you've not read the book..."

YES, to all of the above! I forgot to mention how much I loved Zoya in this book. By the end of Siege and Storm, I never thought I'd say that.

Here is what I think about this whole "love quadrangle" thing between Alina, Mal, Nikolai, and the Darkling.

I honestly don't understand how people can hate Mal. I don't. But beyond that, I don't understand how people can't feel the abundant love between him and Alina. Like... I felt it immediately, unwaveringly, even when Mal and/or Alina were being difficult about it. Mal/Alina is now one of my all time favorite love stories. Just... ugh, I would read stupid, sappy stories about their entire life together and not be ashamed at all.

I also love Alina and Nikolai's relationship. It's a powerful love too, but not in the romantic sense. Theirs is a friendship with so much love that they are willing to enter a non-romantic marriage together for the sake of their people. I was truly moved by them.

The Darkling and Alina were really tricky for me. I did not like them together at all until Ruin and Rising. I've been utterly shocked by the reception of this ship. I understood why Alina was attracted to him in Shadow and Bone, and I actually sympathized with her then, but I always knew in the back of my mind that he could never truly reciprocate true love for her, not like Mal could.

But in Ruin and Rising I saw a different side to him, one that was only hinted at in the first two books but completely consumed their scenes together in this one. I don't think the Darkling ever loved Alina, not for what made her her. He loved her power, and I DON'T mean in the sick way that say... Mother Gothel loved Rapunzel's power in Tangled. I mean that he loved that he finally had someone who he considered his equal. He had been so alone all his life, and then suddenly there was this girl who could match him in strength and could help him build the Ravka he always dreamed of building (that does not excuse the way he went about attaining it!). He was in love with the idea of Alina, but not Alina herself. Everything that made Alina who she truly was... he despised. Her strength of heart - love, compassion - was something he deemed her weakness. And it was those things about her that Mal loved. That's why I ship Mal/Alina.

But I realized, as Alina did, that he never stood a chance at being a compassionate person, not with the way he was raised, in the times he was raised. It's true that he was loyal and loving, but only to his cause, not really to his people, whom he was more than willing to sacrifice to attain his dream. The Darkling was so flawed, and I did come to love him for that. But I will never understand how so many people have come to believe that the Darkling actually loved Alina. I think he could only ever love the idea of her, and that broke my heart.

Gah, I'm still just spazzing out and randomly bursting into tears at how brilliant Leigh is and how brilliant this trilogy is.

[Carina]

Hi Alexandra :D Aw, YAY :D Yay for always loving Mal and Alina together. <3 They are just PERFECT, aren't they? Sigh. I adore them together :D And I loved them from the very beginning in Shadow and Bone. And I never stopped shipping them.

And I ALWAYS loved Mal. I wasn't really mad at him in Siege and Storm :p Because I understood how he felt SO MUCH. And I would probably have reacted the same way. Just saying :D ANYWAY. I adore Mal. Always. He's awesome :)

I do like Nikolai too. And I also think they have an awesome FRIENDSHIP :) Nothing more, hih. As she did not kiss him back. Thankfully.

OHH! You just spoke the truth about the Darkling's feelings for Alina, lol. I SO AGREE. I also never wanted them together. Not ever. And I never thought Alina felt for the Darkling like she felt for Mal. Sigh. But yesss. I think I wanted Alina for her powers. And ONLY her powers. Because, as you say, he did NOT like the real Alina. The other parts of her. Ack.

Oh, how I loved Ruin and Rising. <3 Makes me so happy that you did too :)

[Alexandra]

Carina wrote: "Hi Rachel :D Thank you so much for making this topic. <3 I would love to for once be able to talk about my love for the book without getting hate about it in return, lol.

Beware, SPOILERS.

Anywa..."

Carina, can I just say that all the enthusiastic posts you wrote in this group for Mal and Alina leading up to the release stopped me from having an anxiety attack every day? I am completely serious. All the haters had me so convinced that Mal was going to die in the end (which they were kind of right about) that I was loosing my shit! I got the opportunity to talk to Leigh for a minute at the RT Booklovers Convention in May and told her that the anticipation was giving me anxiety attacks, and she was just like "Take a deep breath, relax, it will all be okay." And right now I just want to give her a hug and say YOU WERE RIGHT, LEIGH, MY WORLD IS MORE THAN OKAY! But really, if it wasn't for your unwavering love for all things Malina, I would have been going crazy! So THANK YOU <3

I am still SO ANGRY that people don't understand Alina and Mal! I don't understand how they are boring or stupid or selfish. But when someone said that she though Alina was the villain of the series... oh god, it took all my self control not to start cursing them into oblivion.

And you know what? All of those insults I take personally. I know that I shouldn't, but I do. I look for relatability in the books I read, and I found that in Alina. I saw a lot of myself in her, in her pain and loneliness. And it really hurt me when she was accused of being boring because I have had someone tell me they think I'm boring and it was incredibly hurtful. Screw all of that! I know I'm not boring, and Alina sure as hell is not boring! She is so INCREDIBLE and I loved being in her head! I love the hope that she and Mal gave me. Their love is so inspiring, and by god I wish I had that! In all its simplicity. I LOVE that Alina didn't end up ruling Ravka, with or without Nikolai. I dreaded that Leigh would do that. I wanted peace for Alina and Mal, they deserve it so much. I already said this in my previous post, but I WILL SAY IT AGAIN: I will read any silly, sappy, "boring" story about Mal and Alina's life together at Keramzin and I WILL LOVE EVERY SECOND OF IT! And I am very tempted to ask Leigh if she has any such stories.

Speaking of which, does anyone remember when the Q&A is?? I can't find the date...

[Vindictev]

Rachel, Alexandra, Carina, Hannah, Jun, can I just say I love you guys? I co-signed your posts with my blood.

I completely loved the book.

Thank god Alina didn't end up with the Darkling or Nikolai, because they clearly didn't love her for who she was.

The Darkling outright physically and psychologically abused Alina, and I'm glad he's dead because what he did to her was completely fucked up. I can't even fathom why people would even ship him with Alina after this book. Hell would freeze over the day Alina decides to hook up with the psycho who mutilates her friends, kidnaps children, and hangs the people who raised her. Disgusting.

Then there is Alina and Nikolai. There is like 0 romance between them. You can clearly tell Alina had no interest in marrying or being with him. Understandably so, because she's in love with Mal.

Then there is Mal and Alina. Dear god, they have the best love story out of any pairing I've read about in literature and in general. Leigh wrote their relationship so well and meaningful, that they'll always have a special place in my heart.

I fucking LOVED Mal in this book. That guy is amazing, and you can tell how much he loves Alina by seeing how willing he is to sacrifice his life for her countless times, and even choose to be miserable for the rest of his life just to keep her safe.

THEN THE SCENE WHEN MAL AND ALINA MADE LOVE I WAS SCREAMING. Ugh, this book was everything.

Mal deserves better than a miserable life of being Alina's lap dog, and I'm so glad he married Alina because he deserves to be happy, and he's the happiest when he's with her.

The book's haters can say how much they dislike how it ended, but what happened in the book happened, and nothing will change that.

Mal and Alina had their happy ending, end of story. I thought it was amazing, because having everything be happy and perfect would be unbelievable. It was realistic, because they shared the same loss of their powers, but Alina and Mal still found happiness in their love for each other.

Alina finally found someone who could love her for who she is and not what she's capable of, and I find that beautiful.

Thank you so much, Leigh.

[Carina]

Alexandra wrote: "Carina wrote: "Hi Rachel :D Thank you so much for making this topic. <3 I would love to for once be able to talk about my love for the book without getting hate about it in return, lol.

Beware, S..."

Hih, thank you :D That makes me so happy. <3 Ack. Yes. I almost died a little so many times because of the negative comments from so many :p But oh. I'm so glad that I was right :D That he and Alina ended up together. That they did get their happy ending. <3 Sigh. So perfect. *Blushes* You are awesome. Thank you :D

Omg, YESSS. It is KILLING ME reading all the negative comments. Grrrr. I want to defend Mal all the time, lol. But I will not. I WILL NOT. Because Mal is perfect. And if they don't get that, then there is something wrong with them (A) hih. Jk. But yeah. I'm done trying to change how they feel. I'm just happy now that I have gotten to read Ruin and Rising. <3 And that it was everything I had hoped it would be.

But lol, yes. I don't understand how they can say that about Mal and Alina. Did they not read the same book? Ack.

Oh yes. Me too. It has hurt my heart SO MUCH to read all their comments. It just doesn't seem fair. Sigh. I'm trying my best not to read them all now, though, just skimming through them a little :) But HUGS. You are not boring. <3 And Alina was not boring. She was amazing and I'm sure that you are too :D

Omg yes. I want to read more about Mal and Alina together :D Especially about their life together now. <3 Sigh. It would be amazing to read more about :)

Huh. I cannot find that date either. Hmm. But I remember it being at the end up June, the 20th something :) I CANNOT WAIT :D Though I did just send Leigh a very long email (A) with a couple of questions I need answers to :p <3

[Carina]

Vindictev wrote: "Rachel, Alexandra, Carina, Hannah, Jun, can I just say I love you guys? I co-signed your posts with my blood.

I completely loved the book.

Thank god Alina didn't end up with the Darkling or Nikol..."

YAY :D I'm just so glad you loved this book too, Vindictev. It makes me really happy. And I agree with everything you say. Omg, YES. That scene between Mal and Alina was BEAUTIFUL. <3 I loved it so much :)

And yes. I'm also so happy that Alina found someone to love her for who she is as a person. And that she loves Mal like that too. Sigh. They are just so adorable together. And I would love to read so much more of their "ordinary" life together :)

[Alexandra]

Vindictev wrote: "Rachel, Alexandra, Carina, Hannah, Jun, can I just say I love you guys? I co-signed your posts with my blood.

I completely loved the book.

Thank god Alina didn't end up with the Darkling or Nikol..."

YAY, you're here! Read what I just wrote to Carina above, because that belongs to you too. You two have been amazing on here!

And I am in complete agreement about the Darkling's physical and psychological abuse. The Darklina ship makes me fear for our world! It truly does. If his abusive behavior is considered love... I have heard so much hate towards Twilight for Edward Cullen's controlling behavior towards Bella, and I don't want to turn this into a Twilight commentary, but it pisses me off that I know for a fact that many people who have said that about Edward have been Darklina shippers. WTF?!?!?!! All I ask is for literary judgments to be left hypocrisy free. The Darkling's story did end up breaking my heart, but I am so glad he's dead. And I'm so glad Alina did it without her own powers. Irony for the win!

Now, back to Alina and Mal, my loves! You brought up a good point. They BOTH lost their powers. And honestly, I'm glad they did. I won't say that power did bad things to Alina, but it did make her willing to choose things that she never wanted and were not good for her. With their powers, they were just tools for a country to use and exploit. And for a time, that's what both Alina and Mal needed to be. But after all the hell that the Darkling put them through, they needed and deserved peace. By loosing their powers, they could have that. And throughout the series, Leigh has kept them equals, another thing I love about them. In the very beginning Alina made a clear decision, by hiding her Grisha powers from the testers, that she wanted to always be Mal's equal. Politics threw their equality off balance, made Alina a saint and Mal her lap dog. And then when they BOTH lost their power, both felt the emptiness in that loss, they found that balance again. And I thought it was so beautiful that in that moment when Alina lost her powers, there was this underlying relief that she could love and grieve for Mal as his equal, knowing that she wouldn't have to leave the Fold and put on the Sankta Alina mask and resume responsibilities that Mal could never be a part of, whether he lived or died.

And I LOVED that Leigh made a point of showing Zoya giving Alina a blue kefta and saying "you will always be one of us." With or without her powers, Alina would always have the strength of Grisha steele. Something that only Mal ever saw before that.

[Carina]

Hi. So yeah, I sent a very long email to Leigh this morning (A) And there were something in it I was wondering if you guys felt the same way. So I'm going to copy+paste what I wrote to Leigh. (I'm a bit weird with how I word things, hih.) <3

Anyway:

"But oh. You did make me cry once. And I NEVER cry in books. Usually. But this time I did. And it was SAD TEARS. Ack. I’m probably the only one who got so upset about it.. but I just couldn’t help it. It was heartbreaking :’( You know, around the middle of the book. The meteor shower thing. And Mal is coming down the stairs. SMILING SO MUCH. Looking so happy. And then Alina is there holding hands with Nikolai :’( And you see how heartbroken he gets. I can just imagine it. Because he was coming to get her, to show her the stars and oh. It was so sad. And it’s making me cry even now. Damn you, Leigh. Sniffs. It was just.. so heartbreaking :’( Please let Mal and Alina have TONS TONS TONS TONS of happy moments together after the last chapter. Sobs. I just. I’m upset that Alina didn’t go after him. When she saw how happy he was at first. But she stayed with Nikolai. She laughed with him. And then he kissed her. And she didn’t stop him. But. She didn’t kiss him back. That made me happy. But.. did Mal see him kiss her? Because that would kill me. I just found that scene to be so sad, because Mal was so happy before she showed up with Nikolai. Sniffs. Ack. I must forget it, lol.

There were two things about the book that bothered me a little. Two things I felt were left out. And I was hoping you could talk to me a little about that. First: Alina never said to Mal that she was sorry. And that broke my heart. She never apologized for keeping him out in Siege and Storm. Not once. And I had wanted her to make up for it. And she didn’t. And it broke my heart a little. Sniffs :( I was wondering, isn’t she sorry? And that scene with the firebird. HE apologized after she had been a bit cruel towards him. Not once did she apologize. And that just.. I can’t. Why couldn’t she say she’s sorry to Mal? :’( It just. It makes me feel that she didn’t care enough about him. Which might be the wrong thing to feel. I don’t know. I just. I need to know, hih. Because she said I’m sorry, I’m so sorry to NIKOLAI. Granted, he had been turned into a monster. But still. Why can’t she say it to Mal?

And the second thing that made my heart break. She never once said I love you to Mal. WHY? SOBS. It makes me so sad :( And it makes me doubt that she do love him. Because he says it to her so often. Right before that GORGEOUS scene on the floor, he tells her he loves her. Yet she says nothing. Did you just forget to have her say it, or did you leave it out on purpose? I just need to know if she really truly loves Mal. Please? Ack."

[Vindictev]

But Alina did tell Mal that she loved him.

"I have loved you all my life Mal." I whispered through my tears. "There is no end to our story."

I think Alina didn't say the exact words "I love you" to Mal, because it was in her narration and it was clear to the readers that she loved Mal. I honestly don't think she had to say it, because we all knew she loved Mal.

As for any other questions, I'm gonna prepare some questions for the next Q&A for Ruin and Rising.

I'll reply to some posts soon. Gotta go for now. ;)

[Carina]

Vindictev wrote: "But Alina did tell Mal that she loved him.


"I have loved you all my life Mal." I whispered through my tears. "There is no end to our story."


I think Alina didn't say the exact words "I love y..."

Yes; she do say that :D But that was in Siege and Storm.. when she thought she was dying :p She didn't say it in Ruin and Rising. But I do think that she really loves him. I do. I just wish she would have said it (A)

[Alexandra]

Carina wrote: "Hi. So yeah, I sent a very long email to Leigh this morning (A) And there were something in it I was wondering if you guys felt the same way. So I'm going to copy+paste what I wrote to Leigh. (I'm ..."

Yeah, I think that because the narration belonged to Alina, it wasn't strictly necessary for her to say the words. I'm 100% sure she does say them, but just not in the narration we see. Since we already know what Alina thinks and feels, it was more important that Mal said it and acted on it so that we knew where he was at.

But I felt exactly the same way during the star scene. That obliterated my heart!

[Hannah]

Alexandra wrote: "HI FELLOW LEIGH LOVERS! Thank God Rachel created this thread!

Anyway, here is what I posted in the other thread before my head exploded:

Rachel wrote: "Yikes, I can't imagine willingly reading t..."

You just perfectly described all the points of the love quad-thing. I totally agree on everything you said about the Darkling! He really was just attracted to her by the idea that someone was equal to him and that he wasn't alone. He was raised believing he was better and stronger than everyone else. He turned into an awful guy, but I do have a lot of pity for him. Being alone like that can't be a good life, and seeing someone else with that kind of power obviously intrigued and attracted him. He saw Alina as the one who could be his equal, but not as an actual person.

Alina, let's not forget to point out, did admit she was lonely too, because of her power. Whenever the Darkling would say they were the only two in the world like each other, he wasn't wrong, and that was tempting to her. I appreciate her strength to realize that, even because of that fact, the Darkling would never be good for her and they wouldn't be right together. The same with Nikolai. I love their relationship AS FRIENDS, but Mal truly is the perfect person for her, and I don't get how people don't see that.

[Rachel]

Wish I could post now, but health issues are keeping me from it. However, I thought this was oddly appropriate.

Love reading all these posts!

[[deleted user]]

Why isn't anybody talking about David and Genya? David's development was amazing, and I cried so hard when he said the stuff about Genya wearing her beauty like armor and that she was steel underneath. (sorry if I made any mistakes, but I have the book loaned to a friend so...) The glass skiff was such an interesting idea. I loved it-it was like a giant "Fuck you" to the Darkling. Also, when Nikolai turned into the whatever-it's-called, I literally had to set the book down and just sit there for 10-15 minutes. And I completely agree, that the Darkling and Nikolai just loved her for her power. I was a bit pissed about Malina in Siege and Storm, but this book completely made up for it. I have so many feels. I did ship Nikalina for a little bit back in Siege and Storm, but the book literally says that she doesn't feel anything when she touches Nikolai. Can't argue with that. Also. I already said this, but I am SO GLAD that Nikolai called his dad on his shit. That needed to be done. DId anyone else kind of just wanna stand up and cheer during that part? I did. And Leigh's writing....it's so beautiful. It literally puts you in their world. Gah...this might be my favorite book I've read this year.

[Alexandra]

Jun wrote: "Why isn't anybody talking about David and Genya? David's development was amazing, and I cried so hard when he said the stuff about Genya wearing her beauty like armor and that she was steel underne..."

oooo yes! Let's talk about David and Genya! Seriously, after Mal, I would want David. Not Nikolai, definitely not the Darkling. David! I'm fascinated with idiot-savant characters like him, Sheldon Cooper of Big Bang, and Sherlock Holmes, to name a few. And he and Genya are like the pinnacle of opposites attract, at least on the surface. But Genya is beautifully multi-layered. Like David said, she wears her beauty like armor, but underneath that she's strong and wickedly clever and intelligent enough to hold the interest of a guy like David. These two make me want to pinch their cheeks and coo.

And when Nikolai confronted his dad about the rape, and Genya got all "I am ruination" on his ass... That scene was just a feminist's dream come true! I was all HUZZAAHH!

And YES, Leigh is such an incredible world builder. She brings you into it seamlessly, effortlessly. I remember when I started reading Shadow and Bone, and I felt like I was a part of the world by the end of the PROLOGUE. That has never happened before and hasn't happened since. And now that the series is over, I feel like I'm going through Grisha world withdrawal. Like I can't read another book right now. It just can't happen. I'm still in Ravka.

[Rachel]

I mentioned them some, but you're right, we need to talk about them more! ^_^

I absolutely loved them in this book. So much character development for both of them, and I loved seeing their relationship growing. It was so sweet when David started talking about how he admires her! <3 Loved when they kissed.

I do think Nikolai loved Alina, but not a romantic love, he outright said he hoped that would follow. But I disagree that he only loved her for her power. Originally he wanted her for her power, but then in S&S they really became wonderful friends, and continued on in R&R. I think Alina is one of Nikolai's best friends. I love their love for each other, I love seeing their non-romantic love just as much as I love seeing Mal's and Alina's romantic love.

I also felt so bad for Mal when he went to get Alina and saw her with Nikolai, but that was also both of their choice because they both decided she needed to do what was best for Ravka, which at the time was being with Nikolai. That's why Mal was asking Alina to keep her distance, he knew that Ravka needed her. I'm so happy though that they were both able to do what they needed for Ravka, and then live their life together the way they always wanted, but with Nikolai still as a wonderful friend to the both of them.

Hope to write more later.

[[deleted user]]

I love the relationship between Nikolai and Alina because it displays a non-romantic male/female relationship, which we don't see a lot of. I mean, in the majority of YA books the male characters either end up a) love interests, b) heartbroken because the main character didn't choose them (like Jacob Black or Gale Hawthorne), c) gay, d) dead, or e) villains. I have lots of male friends who are accused of being my boyfriend, and I love Leigh saying FUCK YOU to that stereotype and letting them be friends even though she doesn't marry him or anything. BROTP.
Also, I loved Nadia and Tamar ending up together because neither of them are your typical butch, masculine lesbian. Ana I'm still not over Genya and David. He's so interesting simply because he loves knowledge, learning, and creating things, which is absolutely fantastic! Also, I love Leigh exploring the concept of Alina bending light to hide things. SO COOL.
I love that the Darkling got some serious closure in this book. I love his backstory, because it makes perfect sense! That he was pissed at the world for their treatment of Grisha. It makes you realize, that Alina and the rest of them don't understand what it was like to live in that world (Disclaimer: I am still against what the Darkling did, it just makes sense now.) It really makes me think of perspective and how knowing the Darklings story has changed my view of him.
Nikolai though. NIKOLAI FREAKING LANTSOV. He is so developed it hurts. My heart was breaking for him in the last chapter when he's obviously still dealing with becoming that thing. How he asks Alina if they're friends. He had so much responsibility, rebuilding the world that the Darkling and his jackass father destroyed. AT 21-22. It proves in the epilogue he's pretty damn good, too.
And Harshaw. Poor Harshaw. My fangirl heart breaks for Harshaw. He was a great character-eccentric but still awesome. I was so sad when he died!!! It's amazing how well developed the characters are-how Leigh makes us sad about the death of a minor character from just one book. Also, Oncat. :) Nuff said.
I really liked Zoya in this book-she was actually pretty smart and funny, and wasn't just put in the book for the sake of being the stereotypical pretty-girl bitch who terrorizes the main character.
I was pretty pissed at Sergei for betraying them though.
This is reading like a Red-Bull fueled term paper, isn't it? Well, goodbye! I still have loads to say, though. :)

[Carina]

Just agree with most of it all, hih :D I adored Genya and David so so much. They are adorable together. And reading about them made me smile. Sigh. I just loved all the characters :D Except, you know, the Darkling. I won't ever love him; sorry :p But I did enjoy reading about him, so shrugs. But yeah. Mal and Alina will always be my favorite and I'm still so happy that Leigh chose to have them end up together. <3 Sigh.

[Hannah]

Genya and David made me so happy. :) They're just so perfect together, and I wanted to hug David throughout this book. I found his oblivion to everything ADORABLE, he's just off in his own little world. Good thing he has Genya!