All the Light We Cannot See - *SPOILERS*

[KP]

PattyMacDotComma wrote: "Liz wrote: "I haven't read this book for a while, but certain aspects of it stayed with me, like the father noting his dwindling number of cigarettes when they are fleeing Paris - concentrating on ..."

Idk it’s just what smokers do when they’re running out. It’s an addiction.

[KP]

Renee wrote: "I leep hearing about Beneath a Scarlet Sky. ..."

It’s terrific but very different from this. It’s like a popcorn movie. action packed, epic, with outdoor scenes. The writing is simpler, not as many adjectives as all the light. It’s not as claustrophobic as all the light.

[KP]

Ella wrote: "I remember the cigarettes, and I agree that this was beautifully done. There were many points when the details were so poignant and lovely. I loved this book, though I'd agree that the gang rape sc..."

They’re finally starting to write more Vietnam stories. No one wanted to hear them before. No one asked vets about their experiences, they just spit on them when they came home.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

I asked Vietnam vets about their experiences and I did not spit on them. For one thing, many were PTSD, but that wasn't the word we used. However, it wasn't as if they could always hide the mental damage or anxieties. I was a young adult and I dated them, most of the time without knowing they were vets. One grabbed me and threw me to the ground when firecrackers went off at a baseball game. Others woke up screaming. Some took me to bars to see a band, only to get so drunk they couldn't drive, and they babbled bizarre scenarios and bitterness tirades after getting blackout drunk. Then there were the friends who smashed up cars or their houses, or beat up wives or their kids or dogs.

I keep trying to figure out who the people were during the 1970's who supposedly ignored all of that without asking questions. Everyone in my circle of friends, work buddies, lunch friends, and at parties asked questions, especially if the ex-vet had been a high school friend. It was a lot of the Vietnam vets who wouldn't talk. When all of the movies began to come out about the Vietnam War in the 1980's and 1990's, we figured out why from the movies.

War is a time when all of society's assumptions, politics, religions, mores, beliefs are tested. First we try to survive during it. I was so afraid for my family and friends who were in Vietnam. It wasn't a passive, oh well, thing.

[NancyJ]

Bruyere wrote: "I'm newish to this group, so I hope it's okay to write critical opinions.

I gave two stars to this book and to Book Thief. The writing was better in this one, but it was about 200 pages longer tha..."

Welcome to the group! I think it was too long too, but overall I enjoyed it. I keep saying "no more" to WWII fiction, but after a break from it, I read more. I like historical fiction, and this is a fertile era for all sorts for stories.

In a few spots I felt the author was a little too ingratiating to Americans (how handsome they are!).

[NancyJ]

Overall I enjoyed this book, but it took me several days to really get into it. The chapters were so short, it was easy to find a stopping point every time he changed characters or timelines. If it wasn't classified as YA, it could be, At the beginning it reminded me of a YA book I didn't like (Salt to the Stars). I also kept falling asleep to the audio version. But based on good reviews I persisted. When I finally buckled down with the print book, I read the last 3/4 in practically one sitting

I eventually came to care about the characters. I loved how smart and curious all the kids were - Marie, Werner, Yutta and Frederick. I loved the connection between Marie's uncle and Werner's childhood. All of the characters had something interesting about them - even the sick and greedy officer who was desperate for the diamond. I'm also curious about the giant (I've forgotten his name) - the boy that was so protective of Werner right from the start. I felt a real love there.

I expected to cry at some point while reading this book, but I didn't. I felt the most emotional when the kids were supposed to torture the prisoner with the freezing water, and how Frederick was the only brave one to defy the order. I loved that about him, and it was heartbreaking to see what happened. It helped explain why more people didn't fight against more atrocities during the war.

It made me wonder how that training program compared to soldier training in other countries.

I feel that this book was more generous and fair in its portrayal of the German people, compared to some WWII books that just pile on the negative stereotypes. Salt to the Sea was particularly disgusting to me in the way they did this. I don't think it bothered most Americans because we already have a lot of bias against WWII Germans. We have moral clarity that we were good, they were evil, period. Real life isn't so simple. I liked that the author showed us Frederick's moral courage, and Werner's conscience.

In contrast, as Ella mentioned, the rape scene builds on our bias against Russians. They aren't the only ones who raped women during war. Even US Marines were taught in boot camp to chant ″rape, kill, pillage, burn" though I hope it's not taught anymore.

[NancyJ]

I feel like I must have missed some of the symbolism that I read about in other reviews. I just skimmed over the Jules Verne sections, so I missed any connections there.

I also don't get the significance of the repeated spirals - in the snails, shells, stairs, Frederick's drawings, etc.. Werner might have studied the math connection to it as well (Fibonacci).

I don't know if there was any extra meaning or significance to Frederick's details about birds, other than to show that like Werner, he had an intense interest/talent for something.

[NancyJ]

I almost forgot - the book including one of my favorite fables - about the frog. If a frog is put into a pot of boiling water, he immediately recognizes the danger and jumps out. But if you put a frog in cold water, and heat it up, he will adjust to the gradual changes, and not recognize he needs to jump out. If he doesn't leave, he'll boil to death.*

It's such as wonderful metaphor about the courage to change, and the dangers of accepting a negative status quo. If you keep putting up with things, they might get worse and worse, and it will be too late to fight later.

When Madame Manec tells the story, she's trying to make a point to Etienne that he should be more courageous. It they don't fight the Germans' now, things will only get worse. Later on he asks Marie Laure who was the frog in that story? He didn't realize that she was talking about him - he was going to be the boiled frog if he didn't wake up. Madame recognized the water was already too hot, so she took action.

* By the way, scientists have tested the story, and determined that the frogs do eventually jump out before the water gets hot enough to boil. Still, it's a great story. I like to tell it to people who are putting up with a really awful boss/company/job, or a situation that is only getting worse.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Birds have a freedom humans can only, wistfully, imagine. To be able to fly away from your current environment! To open your wings and shoot into the sky away from bad people, and wars! To avoid responsibilities and blood! That is what I think the birds meant. Like what steam train whistles used to mean.

Spirals are the journey of life, or of the consciousness expanding outward. Creation unfolding.

[NancyJ]

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "Birds have a freedom humans can only, wistfully, imagine. To be able to fly away from your current environment! To open your wings and shoot into the sky away from bad people, and wars! To avoid re..."

Thanks April. BTW, your review was one of the things that pushed me to keep reading the book.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

: )

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Oh, and about that Jules Verne story: 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and other Classic Novels.

Captain Nemo of the submarine Nautilus was an admirer of Beauty, museum art, and science. Serving the cause of Beauty and Art and Science, he decided killing, murder and destruction was the solution. Like the Nazi Germans. Nemo is called "angel of hatred".

[Bianca]

I was really reluctant to read this book. Blind girl, Nazi youth, occupied France during WWII- I honestly thought it was the book equivalent of Oscar bait. But I received it as a gift and decided to give it a shot. I was pleasantly surprised. It was a heartfelt novel that I felt reflected some of the complexities of the war. I liked the short, sharp chapters and loved that there wasn’t a happily ever after ending. The unexpected and pointlessness of Werner’s death really surprised me, but I think this is reality in wartime. I felt like the characters were complex and seemed like people that could exist. I loved the beautiful relationships between characters particularly Marie-Laure & her father and Werner and Jutta. Overall, glad I read the book.

[NancyJ]

"...it was the book equivalent of Oscar bait"

AKA book club books : )

[Renee]

NancyJ wrote: ""...it was the book equivalent of Oscar bait"

AKA book club books : )"

AKA : The great American read

[Heather]

@ Ella - I have read a few other war stories that I thought were good: The Things They Carried, All Quiet on the Western Front, Dispatches. It definitely is true that - the victors write history as we see, often skewed writing about wars.

@NancyJ - the author is an American, thus the explanation of why the history felt American skewed, and perhaps the "good-looking American" thing. This book matched what I learned as an American kid, but not the more detailed history that I've learned since in university and beyond.

[NancyJ]

Renee wrote: "NancyJ wrote: ""...it was the book equivalent of Oscar bait"

AKA book club books : )"

AKA : The great American read"

There might be some overlap, but the GAR list is much more varied. It includes beloved classics, but it also has some fantasy, YA and popular books that aren't so serious. Many were made into popular movies (like Harry Potter or Hunger Games) that would never be called Oscar Bait.

[NancyJ]

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "Oh, and about that Jules Verne story: 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and other Classic Novels.

Captain Nemo of the submarine Nautilus was an admirer of Beauty, museum art, and scienc..."

Interesting. I had no idea that book was so dark.

[NancyJ]

Bruyere wrote: "@ Ella - I have read a few other war stories that I thought were good: The Things They Carried, All Quiet on the Western Front, Dispatches. It definitely is ..."

Ah. That explains a lot. Someone (maybe Werner) noticed an American brand of something (cigarettes maybe), and I remember wondering how he would know.

[NancyJ]

Bianca wrote: "I was really reluctant to read this book. Blind girl, Nazi youth, occupied France during WWII- I honestly thought it was the book equivalent of Oscar bait. But I received it as a gift and decided t..."

Nicely put. I really appreciated the complexities and relationships too. I think the characters will stay with me a long time.

[Renee]

Humm haven't most of them been made into movies?

NancyJ wrote: "Renee wrote: "NancyJ wrote: ""...it was the book equivalent of Oscar bait"

AKA book club books : )"

AKA : The great American read"

There might be some overlap, but the GAR list is much more vari..."

[Ella]

An interesting WWII nonfiction book about how regular people ended up as members of the Nazi party is "They thought they were free: the Germans 1933-45" by Milton Mayer. It's a study of ten regular Germans - butcher, baker, candlestick maker types (or what we might call 'flyover america' types.)

This book reminded me in many ways of The Book Thief - another book (that is labeled YA) that has careful and decent depictions of Germans during the war. Personally, if I'm going to read any more WWII fiction, I'd actually like to read some Russian literature from this era. They lost SOOO many people and it devastated the country so thoroughly that it would be quite interesting to see how this war looks from a soviet perspective.

[Mo]

Ella wrote: "An interesting WWII nonfiction book about how regular people ended up as members of the Nazi party is "They thought they were free: the Germans 1933-45" by Milton Mayer. It's a study of ten regular..."

I agree, I'd be very interested to read some WWII fiction written by a Russian. I think it would be very different from most other books about WWII

[Heather]

I agree that Russian perspective would be very helpful in seeing it from a different side. We'll have to look into that!

[John]

Enemy at the Gates: The Battle for Stalingrad by William Craig might be a good starting point. American author but told of the conflict between the Germans and the Russians over Stalingrad. Movie came out about 12 year ago I think.

[NancyJ]

Ella wrote: " I'd actually like to read some Russian literature from this era. They lost SOOO many people and it devastated the country so thoroughly that it would be quite interesting to see how this war looks from a soviet perspective.
.."

Yes, I agree. Plus weren't they instrumental in winning the war for the allies?

[Debbie]

I really liked this book. It was a lot to digest. This was not a book I could sit and read in one sitting. I loved Marie Laure and her story was so compelling. I was blindsided by Werner's death. That was devastating.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Debbie wrote: "I really liked this book. It was a lot to digest. This was not a book I could sit and read in one sitting. I loved Marie Laure and her story was so compelling. I was blindsided by Werner's death. T..."

Totally agree.

[Tr1sha]

I’m so disappointed. Perhaps I expected too much from this book as it’s so popular & I waited in huge anticipation before starting it. I’ve now read just over a third. I don’t like it much, but don’t particularly dislike it either - I’m just not interested. For now, I’ve abandoned it.

[NancyJ]

Trisha wrote: "I’m so disappointed. Perhaps I expected too much from this book as it’s so popular & I waited in huge anticipation before starting it. I’ve now read just over a third. I don’t like it much, but don..."

That's too bad. I know the feeling. Sometimes we're better off not knowing a book was popular.

[Ella]

John wrote: " Enemy at the Gates: The Battle for Stalingrad by William Craig might be a good starting point. America..."

Thanks, John - I'll see if I can get my hands on a copy.

As for this month's books, I definitely think if a book is really built up in my mind, it has a harder time getting into my feelings. I had purposely been avoiding adding All the Light... to my TBR when we voted it as this month's book, so I expected to like it far less than I actually did. (Strange but true.) OTOH, I had high hopes for Little Fires, and that one felt very meh to me. Picking books can be so hard, it's so personal and even though I know what I love, I can never be sure I'll like a book until I've finished it.

[NancyJ]

Ella wrote: ."

I put off both All the Light, and Light Between Oceans for a couple years, and ended up liking them both. I knew a lot about the story of Light Between Oceans and didn't see the point in reading it. But then my rl bookclub picked it. The writing was so gorgeous it just pulled me in.

[Heather]

Trisha wrote: "I’m so disappointed. Perhaps I expected too much from this book as it’s so popular & I waited in huge anticipation before starting it. I’ve now read just over a third. I don’t like it much, but don..."

My feeling is that the book doesn't change much. I kept waiting for a climax. So, if you aren't interested, there's your answer.

[KP]

The climax was great. the end was an anticlimax

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

I finally finished this one and loved it. It was too good to rush. I thought his writing style was beautiful and I found myself re-reading various passages so I wouldn't miss anything. I have found that I really like the Pulitzer Prize winning books that I have read, including this one, so I should prioritize reading more of them I suppose.


All the Light We Cannot See by Anthony Doerr
Rating: 5 stars
Review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Shelley]

I had not planned to read this book, as I read it about three years ago. However, my library chose it for their December read, so I went ahead and reread it. This time around I listened to the the audio book. Both times, I loved it.

The author uses simple language to elegantly tell a story of every day things in a terrible time. I think it was the simplicity of the story, as well as connections between the main characters (i.e. Marie-Laure's grandfather's recordings, the song Claire de Lune, the fact that Werner learned French as a child, etc.), that made me like it so much. I really liked the characters of Marie-Laure and Werner and how the story was told in brief snippets from each of their perspectives. Both had to overcome challenges in their young lives, and they were not always brave, did not always do what may have been "right" in order to survive.

Having both read the book and listened to the audio book, I think I'd recommend the book over the audio book. The audio book was very well done. However, this is a story that I liked to sit and think about, which doesn't work well with audio. Also, there were times that I wanted to flip back to reread passages and other times when I wanted to research the French and German phrases scattered throughout.

[Cheryl]

Heather wrote: "I'm newish to this group, so I hope it's okay to write critical opinions.

I gave two stars to this book and to Book Thief. The writing was better in this one, but it was about 200 pages longer tha..."

Finally read this for an irl book club. I agree with this whole comment.

[Cheryl]

NancyJ wrote: "I almost forgot - the book including one of my favorite fables - about the frog. If a frog is put into a pot of boiling water, he immediately recognizes the danger and jumps out. But if you put a f..."

Thank you for the science. And also for clarifying the target of Madame's story-telling. I thought it was Etienne too, and was surprised when he revealed that he hadn't realized that.

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Welcome everyone to our November 2020 Bookshelf Catch Up; this this is the third time this book has been featured as a group read.

Friendly reminder that this is the spoilers thread - if you're not yet ready for spoilers then head on over to the pre-read thread.

What did you think of this book? Are there parallels with this book and current times? Did it meet your expectations?

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Spoiler thread will be closed until November.

[Louise]

I thoroughly enjoyed this book! The author did a great job with transitioning between time periods, making it easy and natural to follow. Both Marie-Laure’s and Werner’s background stories were told really well, making it very satisfying when their stories eventually crossed paths. Was interesting to see the story through the lens of a blind person - some good diversity/representation there. It was also great to hear a WW2 story from two opposite perspectives.
I thought Volkheimer was an interesting, contrasted character - although he was physically big and intimidating, he appeared to also have a softer side, not dissimilar to the BFG.
I was particularly saddened by what happened to Frederick; that was quite upsetting and shocking.
Finally, I thought it was wonderful how the author let us know how each character’s future panned out. I’m glad that Jutta and Marie-Laurie finally met and could bond over their mutual love/appreciation for Werner. I got a sense of closure from this.