Chapter 10 - Chapter 12

[K]

So... what did you think of chapter 10 to chapter 12

[Anna]

I was so happy to finally see at least a tiny part of the story from Catriana's POV (in chapter 10). I've been waiting for her to be something more than the token female. Even in chapter 9 when she actually did something, the tone was like 'wow a LADY did that?!' But of course when she finally gets a POV it's all about her virginity. Naturally that's the most interesting thing about her. Also she puts down all the other women we've met so far.

And Devin has more sex.

I really am enjoying the book for the most part. I just get so annoyed when female characters are there just so the men can observe the swell of their breasts.

[Anna]

Chapters 11 and 12 were quite enjoyable. The Walkers are interesting. I feel weird talking to myself.

[Dav]

Anna wrote: "Chapters 11 and 12 were quite enjoyable. The Walkers are interesting. I feel weird talking to myself."

You're not talking to yourself! I don't have much to say, but I'm following the all comments... I agree with a lot of your observations though I'd not previously thought about the "token female" thing. My favourite thing about Chapter 12 is finding out that Alessan and Baerd are also known as Pigeon and Pigeon Two haha!!

[Anna]

I went back and re-read the part in chapter 9 where Catriana's fake suicide stunt is described, and it wasn't as bad as I remembered. It's possible I'm reading too much into things. Or I just react very easily these days, even if the offense is very small. It's just that there are so many male characters doing all kinds of things, and the ladies are all either the housewifey type or wanting to sleep with Devin. Even Elena, who was introduced as a character fighting some unknown evil, went out literally banging. It wasn't Devin though, so maybe it doesn't count. I want to believe that Catriana is not just what's been shown so far, but it's hard when we mostly see her through Devin.

[Thia Reads A Lot]

I think I would definitely love Devin more if his chapters didn't always include a sex scene, like Chapter 12 was pretty good.
I'm not sure what to think of Chapter 11, about the Night Walkers. I hope it will be important for the rest of the story, otherwise it's a waste of an interesting concept.
Like Anna said, let's hope there's more stuff for Catriana to do in the rest of the novel than she did until now, which is pretty much just acting weird and that fake suicide stunt.

[Kelsey]

Okay, I really liked the Night Walkers and the Ember war. That's the type of mysterious fantasy stuff I really go for. I hope Elena continues to be a character in this story, in part because she and Baerd are the first couple in this I'm actually rooting for at all, and it would suck if the only reason she were in the book was for him to have sex with on a hill in one chapter. Is she going to die though because she felt cold in her heart or something? I was really unclear on that.

Part of me hates to be harping on the treatment of female characters and the sex stuff because it's not really atrocious, and I do like several of the female characters (Dianora, Alais, Elena). Like, I'm sure I've read much worse, and it's not really hampering my ability to enjoy the majority of the book. However, just about all the books I read these days with any significant amount of sexual content are written by women, so I definitely feel the male gaze here in contrast.

None of the real power players in the political saga are women. The closest we have is Dianora, and she explicitly has only the illusion of power because she's a slave. And we just met with an old pal who recently overthrew the only matriarchy we've heard of so far in this world. Good going. Catriana has done nothing of note as a member of this group except fake a suicide. Does she have basic combat skills should she need them? Baerd gave Devin a sword and lessons... did she get the same? And she didn't get to participate in the playacting in the taverns because... taverns are men-only in the Palm? Women don't drink in public?

And then there was Alienor. Possibly the less said about her the better. I get that there's a sex-bondage-as-a-metaphor-for-political-bondage thing, but I already got that loud and clear in the saishan. You didn't have to throw in an extra spare dominatrix.

Thing is, I keep expecting clever subversions of these story elements because most of the fantasy I read is by female authors who know how to do that. Like, believe it or not, when Alienor knocked on Devin's door in the middle of the night I actually thought she'd have something else up her sleeve (plotting? deception? an emergency?), and I was going to get to laugh at him for expecting this woman to seduce him for no apparent reason. Silly me. And I'd want Dianora to have meaningful female friendships in the saishan, but so far it seems to be pure rivalry...over a man...who enslaved them.

Wow, that was a lot more than I thought I had to say on the subject. Will you believe me if I tell you that I'm actually really liking this book?

[Thia Reads A Lot]

I've finished the book already and what Kelsey said is spot on.

[K]

No I'm feeling similar to you on this reread Kelsey. The need to couple everyone up, the allonormativity of all the sexual relationships and the treatment of women are all getting on my nerves. All the same I enjoy the story. Like you the night walkers war on the Ember Days are probably my favourite element so far.

[Renata]

I also agree with everything Kelsey said. I was especially irritated when they talked about overthrowing the matriarchy in Quileia like that was the worst possible situation. Women leading? Unthinkable.

Anyway, I also enjoyed the chapter on the Ember Days, but I just wonder if that is relevant to the story. For those of you who enjoyed it too, Kay based it on a real heresy. I know this because he mentioned it in the introduction to my copy. If you'd like to know more, there's a book by a historian called Carlo Ginzburg on that subject.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...

Or you could just take a look at wikipedia, because the article seems to be based on his work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benandanti

There's also an interview with him on youtube in which he explains the process of his research a little.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTeSW...