Angels & Demons
discussion
Would you rather live in a world without science...or in a world without religion?
Personally speaking, if god was real, I'd go against my principles and give him the Death Penalty and send him to hell. I don't think the bible is about a very good god. God acts more like a devil in a horror book. That's my opinion.
-Y_A_I_R- wrote: "maria well i dont like how some of these people are calling god the B word i mean do u go church?"It's really sweet of you to defend God like that but don't be threatening people on this site. I'll flag your post and you will be kicked out. You have to be able to handle all kinds of reactions here. Calm down.
@ maria ur right if the babies are born wrong its because the parents smoke or drink
By Odin's hairy sack of magic!I ignore the tedium of this thread for a wee while and it degenerates into playground name calling.
Love it!
All Hail Eris!
Zachary wrote: "@ APRIL ARE YOU ON CRACK BICTH"What is a BICTH?
but maria look wat that girl or boy is saying i mean im not a big religion person i bearly go to church but god is a big part of my life so i dont like that people talk about god like that
"A self-replicating molecule formed when a series of fatty acids congealed into vesicles which, made permeable by convection cycles in a prebiotic Earth, trapped nucleotide monomers which self-ligated via hydrogen bonds and covalent bond ligation, polymerizing within the vesicle to form a primitive cell after which the surrounding ions increased the osmotic pressure allowing the cell to acquire lipids from other vesicles, which catalyzed competition and, thus, evolution."Then why are we not all the same species? How did some evolve into animals and some into birds, fish, etc. Pretty smart protoplasm. And why is it not still taking place? Are there no more self-replicating molecules left? If we all evolved from monkeys then why are there still monkeys?
@ april god is real you the one that is the devil so quit saying god aint real because he will send you to hell
April the Cheshire Meow wrote: "Still here? Still want to play, then. Many of us think if god exists he is a son of a bitch. He kills babies, thousands, every day."How does he kill babies?
Old-Barbarossa wrote: "By Odin's hairy sack of magic!I ignore the tedium of this thread for a wee while and it degenerates into playground name calling.
Love it!
All Hail Eris!"
Come join in the fun. These guys want to play.
Maria wrote: "If we all evolved from monkeys then why are there still monkeys? "Really?
We evolved from a common ancestor. Humans are...sorry can't be bothered to explain...let me refer you to:
The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee: How Our Animal Heritage Affects the Way We Live
April the Cheshire Meow wrote: "Old-Barbarossa wrote: "By Odin's hairy sack of magic!
I ignore the tedium of this thread for a wee while and it degenerates into playground name calling.
Love it!
All Hail Eris!"
Come join in the ..." you are just wierd
I ignore the tedium of this thread for a wee while and it degenerates into playground name calling.
Love it!
All Hail Eris!"
Come join in the ..." you are just wierd
Breanna wrote: "@ april god is real you the one that is the devil so quit saying god aint real because he will send you to hell"I think you can also get sent to hell for using poor grammar.
you need to leave god alone because he didnt do nothing to you
Breanna wrote: "@ april god is real you the one that is the devil so quit saying god aint real because he will send you to hell"I am an atheist. Sweetheart, thank you for being concerned, but I'll be alright. Yair started calling everyone names and using curse words, which s ok for non-believers, but for a Christian is a sin, right? Don't defend yair or Zachary because they are not really chistians defending their opinions. They might be trolls baiting everyone. I'm really bored, so I'm playing.
shut up you goth if you are just bored get out of the site
well at lease i believe in god i love god not the devil
April the Cheshire Meow wrote: "Come join in the fun. These guys want to play..."I think it's time to bring the dread old ones into the mix...purely for the devilment.
Since this is degenerating into general abuse and swearyness (people: watch some Deadwood and learn to be abusive with a filigree of words) may I, at this point, suggest that Nyarlathotep could kick your god's arse?
Sorry everyone...this is such blatant trolling I deserve everything I get...
\m/
"I'm really bored, so I'm playing"LOL, me too. To clarify, I'm not an athiest, but I am playing here. Fun to get these zealots riled up, isn't it?!
its bad that you dont believe in god. You need some jesus in your life. i need to give you a bible.
Old-Barbarossa wrote: "April the Cheshire Meow wrote: "Come join in the fun. These guys want to play..."I think it's time to bring the dread old ones into the mix...purely for the devilment.
Since this is degenerating ..."
: D
Breanna wrote: "well at lease i believe in god i love god not the devil"OK, how about this? Which "god" are we referring to? Allah, Mohammed, Yahweh, Buddha? Who do you love?
Breanna wrote: "its bad that you dont believe in god. You need some jesus in your life. i need to give you a bible."Is Jesus God? OR his son?
Zachary wrote: "get a life"I heartily agree.
Though I'm not sure who your comment was aimed at I feel that as a general philosophy it's not bad...
-Y_A_I_R- wrote: "shut up you goth if you are just bored get out of the site"All of a sudden, your keyboard appears to be fixed. You can spell now too. 'wat is tat', a miracle?
April the Cheshire Meow wrote: "-Y_A_I_R- wrote: "shut up you goth if you are just bored get out of the site"All of a sudden, your keyboard appears to be fixed. You can spell now too. 'wat is tat', a miracle?"
He has been HEALED~
Maria wrote: "April the Cheshire Meow wrote: "-Y_A_I_R- wrote: "shut up you goth if you are just bored get out of the site"All of a sudden, your keyboard appears to be fixed. You can spell now too. 'wat is t..."
: D
cs wrote: "no"Thank you for answering the question. That you don't agree that it is at least a contributing factor is somewhat surprising, but it puts the rest of your points in perspective....anything that disagrees with your religious dogma you can safely ignore.
Johndoe wrote: "cs wrote: "Do you mean that you with drew it because you were not able to verify it."I withdrew it because you keep doing the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes an..."
Yair, have you ever read the bible?
"God is such a bitch" was one of the nicer thoughts I had during it. But it was quite a mix, going from "senile" to "psychopathic asshole", depending on the chapter I was reading (the latter during "Leviticus". In the context of it being part of the bible, the content and the fact that people take this seriously and see it as "the word of gawd" one of the most abominable and despicable pieces of literature I ever read).
Thanks for the review
Maria wrote: ""Unborn Children can be infected because their mother has AIDS. So no, it doesn't require homosexual relationships or drugs to spread."Johndoe, of course it doesn't require that type of behavior..."
Bitter? Interesting, till now nobody got that idea.
But no, I didn't have a bad personal experience with religion. I had and still have good times with the people from my former church (I was raised catholic) and I can't say a single bad thing ever happened to me. I just examined my religion, saw what it did in the past and today, read the bible, concluded it was all unsubstantiated babble, examined other faiths, came to the same conclusion, and live my life happily as an atheist now.
But what disgusts me is the things religions and theists are doing. Priest raping young boys. The church protecting those kids. Theists bullying, threatening and killing persons who are not of and/or against their faith. The religious right in the USA and their ongoing war on women. All this hate against homosexuals. And every single thing of this and more can be traced back to religion.
So yes, I think religion is the single most destructive force in the history of mankind. I'm disgusted what people with supposedly "superior morals" are doing because of or in the name of religion. That's why I don't see any reason to hold back when talking about religion.
If that makes me seem bitter, so be it. But if even one person stops and starts thinking on their own. Researching the religious topics as to counter my arguments. Weighing what they find against their beliefs and my arguments. That's when it is all worth it.
Maria wrote: "Then why are we not all the same species? How did some evolve into animals and some into birds, fish, etc. Pretty smart protoplasm. And why is it not still taking place? Are there no more self-replicating molecules left? If we all evolved from monkeys then why are there still monkeys?"
In order of your questions:
- Evolution. "Survival of the fittest", to say it short, means that those who are best suited to an specific environment survive (as in, who get's enough food to live, etc.) and reproduce. Different environment, different traits, different path of evolution (that the simplified short version, in reality there is a lot more behind it)
- It is. All the time and with every species on the planet, including humans. The most popular example should be the Galapagos Islands and there variety of different kinds of species. But you don't see evolution happening in a short time of space (at least not in everyday life, in controlled environments and short-lived creatures a simulation is possible). Look at it over a couple hundred years and you will start seeing the differences produced by evolution.
- Ah, the monkey argument. One of the oldest around (and in almost the same wording, too).
To give you the short answer: We did not evolve from monkeys. Humans and Monkeys share a common ancestor, couple hundred thousand years back. If you have to compare it, it's like being great-great-great-cousins (if you throw in a couple more "greats"). Way back we had a common ancestor, but since then the "family" split and had their own life.
And to throw in a little fun:
(not scientifically accurate ;-) )
But if you are interested in the topic, I recommend the site talkorigins ( http://www.talkorigins.org/ ). It gives a good overview and also deals with those old arguments and the creationist arguments.
Regarding the other posts: It's getting really entertaining in here. I want to play too! :-D
Shite and onions!It got all serious again!
:(
Johndoe, I love it! Thanks for your comments and answers. Don't take me too seriously. Sometimes I ask questions that are sure to get heated responses just to see what transpires. "Playing" if you will. Love the Torte and Retort!
Old Barbarossa, we can still play bible trivia:Whose daughters got their father drunk and raped him in the night as to bear children?
Hint: It was a righteous man ;-)
Johndoe wrote: "Well, we can still play bible trivia:Whose daughters make their father drunk and rape him in the night as to bear children?
Hint: It was a righteous man ;-)"
Noah.
Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Shite and onions!It got all serious again!
:("
Darn it....
I can't do what Hazel, Dan and some of the serious (as in never joke while debating) do. They have taken on the task of responding for YEARS to serious seekers and questioners. Very admirable ( I'm serious about that). They have helped clarify my thoughts. But I guess I'll never be admirable myself. My seriousness always goes sideways. I love trolls. I'm bad.
Maria wrote: "Johndoe wrote: "Well, we can still play bible trivia:Whose daughters make their father drunk and rape him in the night as to bear children?
Hint: It was a righteous man ;-)"
Noah."
Noah only had sons, but no daughters. Though in a part of the story he was drunk and his sons interacted with him, so cudos for that :-)
(Though admittedly I googled to see if I remembered correctly ^^)
Johndoe wrote: "Old Barbarossa, we can still play bible trivia:Whose daughters got their father drunk and raped him in the night as to bear children?
Hint: It was a righteous man ;-)"
Certainly wasn't Onan...
Cerebus wrote: "cs wrote: "no"Thank you for answering the question. That you don't agree that it is at least a contributing factor is somewhat surprising, but it puts the rest of your points in perspective....any..."
I don't agree because it was a loaded question. A bit like asking me if I would like my left foot shot off or my right one.
But even though you are not able to give numbers to Johndoe's previous statement, I will elaborate a bit.
The Catholic position is that it is wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence. In order to justify the use of condoms for the prevention of spreading aids the church would have to go against this view.
If you believe something to be right then you can't be 'wrong' in your belief.
If a person believes it is right to use contraception then that persons belief is right.
African Catholics can make the same choice as other Catholics all over the world.
A lot of people from third world countries, catholic and others want large familes and so do not use contraception. It is an investment for their future, their children will look after them in their old age.
Maria put it quite well in message 3487
some types of irresponsible behavior does contribute to the spread of the disease.
Johndoe wrote: "Maria wrote: "Johndoe wrote: "Well, we can still play bible trivia:Whose daughters make their father drunk and rape him in the night as to bear children?
Hint: It was a righteous man ;-)"
OH - I mean LOT.
Five points to you ;-)
"If you believe something to be right then you can't be 'wrong' in your belief."You may not be "wrong" in believing something - everyone is entitled to believe anything they want, even if it flies in the face of reason. But the thing they "believe" in may be wrong, just from pure fact. I could say I believe that the sky is green - but it's not. So my belief is wrong - but I still have the right to believe it if I insist.
Maria wrote: "I could say I believe that the sky is green - but it's not. So my belief is wrong - but I still have the right to believe it if I insist..."Though you may run the risk of detention under an obscure section of the Mental Health Act if by acting on your beliefs you case harm to others.
If however you act on religious beliefs in a manner that cases harm to others your order and church will cover it up for the greater good of the church.
See the following for a wee refresher:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0503/vict...
Maria wrote: ""If you believe something to be right then you can't be 'wrong' in your belief."You may not be "wrong" in believing something - everyone is entitled to believe anything they want, even if it flie..."
No, not quite. If you really believe that the sky is green, then to you it is green. You are not wrong.
It is not a question of having the right. That sounds as if you know the sky is not green but you want to believe it is.
If one believes it is right to use contraception then they are not wrong if they use it, regardless of what the churches view is.
But this has to be a genuine belief and not one you decide to believe out of convenience.
But I guess this will open a whole new can of worms.
cs wrote: "I don't agree because it was a loaded question. A bit like asking me if I would like my left foot shot off or my right one."It was not a loaded question at all.
If you accept that condoms can prevent the spread of aids (do you?), and if you accept that it is possible that a catholic person with HIV will have unprotected sex without a condom because they have been told by the church not to use them, or because they believe the misinformation from some in the church hierarchy that condoms do not prevent the disease spreading, and if as a result the other participant contracts the disease, then the catholic church's position is a contributing factor.
If you think the above scenario is impossible, please elucidate.
cs wrote: "A lot of people from third world countries, catholic and others want large familes and so do not use contraception. It is an investment for their future, their children will look after them in their old age."Not if they have aids......
cs wrote: "Maria put it quite well in message 3487 some types of irresponsible behavior does contribute to the spread of the disease. "
I agree. One example of irresponsible behaviour is having unprotected sex with someone you either know to have HIV, or are unaware of their HIV status. You could either abstain, which will work for some but not all, or you can use a condom. If you choose to ignore both of these options, you are behaving irresponsibly.
cs wrote: "No, not quite. If you really believe that the sky is green, then to you it is green. You are not wrong."Yes, you are in fact wrong.
cs wrote: "If one believes it is right to use contraception then they are not wrong if they use it, regardless of what the churches view is."So you can cherry pick the bits of your religion you agree with and follow? Convenient. Makes god slightly less than omniscient if you have the authority to disregard his will at your convenience. If you choose to ignore the bit about not killing, are you still 'not wrong, regardless of what the churches view is.'?
cs wrote: "But even though you are not able to give numbers to Johndoe's previous statement, I will elaborate a bit."Why would I have to give a number when I said I was making no claims on the size of the contribution?
cs wrote: "The Catholic position is that it is wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence. In order to justify the use of condoms for the prevention of spreading aids the church would have to go against this view. "
So the catholic church's position is that sex is purely for procreation, and not for pleasure? I hope there's plenty of good stuff on tv for catholics then....
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Johndoe, of course it doesn't require that type of behavior, and I feel so bad that so many innocent people have the disease. But, seriously, some types of irresponsible behavior does contribute to the spread of the disease. If the mother of an unborn child has AIDs, she must have gotten it from someone - down the line it comes from infected blood or body fluids transmitted sexually or intraveniously.
And, on the other part of your post - WOW - I have not seen or heard anyone so bitter about religion or God in a long time. So you do believe in him/her, you just think he/she is mean and spiteful? I think he is kind to the people who obey his laws (and yes, as the sovereign of the universe he does have the right to make laws and insist they are obeyed) but he can really get bent out of shape when his laws are broken or ignored. Did you have a bad experience with any particular religion to be this bitter?