Would you rather live in a world without science...or in a world without religion? Showing 1,851-1,900 of 12,463

[Alfie]

message 1955: by Whirlwind(last edited 5 hours, 51 min ago)(new)- rated it 2 stars

8 hours, 34 min ago


Busted! Well, geniuses, I’ve said this to a few people in my life and I’m going to say it here: “If you want to have a fight, make it a good fight. Let’s rock and roll. None of you did very well. When I decided to go on a search for my own posts to which the several of you take such exception, the consequence was that I had to scan through many others to find my own. And gosh, just look at what I found! Racism, bigotry, condescension, arrogance, bullying, insulting, name-calling, anger, sarcasm, and blatant disrespect. Considering the recent vitriol aimed at Yours Truly, and your bitter criticisms of my posts, your accusations of dominating the thread, and so on, you might just have your collective eyes opened if you take a look at yourselves. Like Eric Clapton’s song says: “Before you accuse me, take a look at yourself.” You lose. I’ve made my point and if you want to continue after this, I can continue to dig up more. Unless you all go back now and remove your old posts so you can’t be implicated. Are you cowardly enough to do that, or do you have the stones to stand up and take responsibility for being the hypocrites you are? We shall see…

message 769: by Jeff
You're so vainly biased toward optimism it's hilarious, and your black and white thinking…
I scorn all religion as I scorn all culture…

message 777: by Hazel
So, what you're saying is that humans will never agree, and thus religion and science can't live peacefully together. Which is the exact diametric opposite of what you said…

message 779: by Hazel
But why should anyone respect the belief in an imaginary man in the sky, or an earth mother, or a god with the head of an elephant etc etc? It means people stunt themselves, they stop looking for answers and allow themselves to be lied to, but they can be so much more. I respect people who actually want to learn and to know, and not to passively assign anything they don't understand to a mythological father figure who will stone them to death for the slightest error.

message 780: by Maureen
So Jean you only live a moral life because you believe you will be spanked in the afterlife if you don't?

message 783: by Hazel
To say science should reduce the death rate when the birth rate is going up is ridiculous, there are more deaths than previously because there are more people than previously, and actually, the statistics show…

message 785: by Hazel
The works can be done without religion included, thus religion is not essential to the work. I can't believe I've had to explain that again.

message 785: by Hazel
Are you claiming that the one god is better than another? Well, in that case, maybe we should be preaching about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and spreading pastafarianism among the uneducated poor, who's to say that you can't be touched by his noodly appendage, and saved.

message 788: by Hazel
Well done, you've argued the opposite of what you were trying to argue.

message 798: by Hazel
ok sabine, thats your kids dead by the age of 25, congratulations, you chose religion over science.

message 805: by Hazel
Alfie, I have reached the point where I am so convinced of your utter deliberate ignorance, that I will not even deign to respond to anything you have put in that post.

message 806: by Bunnie
hazel, i was thinking Alfie does not make sense-he cannot be reached so why bother.he cannot even express himself in a clear way.

message 808: by Travis
So, as long as Alfie can pray( to a guy that's everywhere) and keep the rain off him, he'd take that over science...? Jesus never used a church. Go get yourself a mound, Alfie, it was good enough for JC.

And this one, that clearly demonstrates arrogance, racism, and religious prejudice towards Catholicism, very blatantly. ~ Whirlwind (I don’t care for the religion either, but Hazel really hit below the belt with this one. --

message 809: by Hazel
Bunnie, I can forgive him not expressing himself clearly, I checked after my last post, he's from the Philippines, but personally, if I didn't speak the language being used well enough to communicate effectively, I wouldn't get involved in the conversation, and on top of that, he's catholic, so bound to take instant offence…

message 813: by Bunnie
Bunnie O'hara maureen-it's bad enough as it is-just because you do not speak the language does not mean you can't be logical in your thinking…

message 816: by Maureen
But then I started to ask questions. That's when it all fell apart for me. Religious and Christian faith does not hold up to rational scrutiny on any level. I did not lose my faith, I gave it up...like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. I'm not mocking you, and at times I envy you and believers....to be in that comfy childlike place where we are secure in the knowledge that Mommy and Daddy can fix everything.

message 827: by Maureen
Science exists because it supports truth. It exists despite some peoples religious convictions....come on Alphie you can't be that naive. Religion stands in the way of science and progress all the time. Have you never seen zealots protesting at the funerals of soldiers, Christians doing all they can to prevent stem cell research including the last Christian president, fundamentalists protesting a woman's right to choose for her own body, Muslims cutting the clitoris off little girls and demanding that sharia law supersede a country's law, fundamentalist opposing gay marriage? These are not all issues of science but they show where religion interferes or tries to interfere with either science or public policy.Like I said believe what you want, but stay the hell out of my life with your archaic fairytales.

message 1555: by Hazel
I have learned from reading the bible is that god, and his followers therein, and by extension the people who created them and wrote the books, are utter dicks.

message 1562: by Shannon
So, when I read that you believe that God, the people who follow God, and the people who wrote the Bible are utter dicks, well, Hazel, I have to shake my head at that. If that's what you truly believe, that's your choice. Of course, it is your choice. I will say that I think you're painting with a very, very, very broad brush. And, I think it might be a rather superficial brush.

message 1563: by Hazel -
Hazel you're entiltled to extrapolate all that from one sentence, but of course, you'd be using a very broad brush to tar me with if you did.

message 1564: by Shannon
Ah, Hazel. Come on. I read your words and take you to be a woman of your words and your word. I didn't extrapolate or spin. You said it. And, it was QUITE clear. Are you saying you didn't mean what you said?

message 1578: by Shannon
You don't have to believe, Hazel. You don't have to respect religions. I support your ability to choose your beliefs ... and to reject belief. But .... You say you respect people of faith. Do you not see that saying what you did ... about God and the people who followed God and were referenced in the Bible ... is totally and completely disrespectful to the people you claim to respect?


message 1581: by Shannon
Forget it, Hazel.
I respect all people of faith. I respect people who are Agnostic and who are Atheists. That stands alone.
I'll not tell you that you're wrong due to the fact that you value science.
I'll not tell people that they're wrong for valuing religion.
That stands alone.
You keep doing what you're doing, if you're comfortable with that. Tell everyone who doesn't agree with you that they're wrong. Come up with a reason, for every point that anyone, who is not an Atheist, makes that "proves" that they're wrong. Call God and the followers within the Bible utter dicks. Go for it.
That can also stand alone.
There doesn't need to be any link at all ... between my respecting your thoughts, opinions and beliefs (...and, I believe, the belief that there is no God is a belief) ... and my, therefore, expecting a certain level of equal respect from you in return.
No. Nothing needs to follow.
I'll let you continue to express that you're right ... and that you're
the only one who is right.

message 1590: by Hazel
oh look, I'm saying it again, because once you again you have opened the question up. I feel that it is imperative that if you find fault with something, you should speak out, and personally, I find fault in constantly teling me that I have to respect someones faith in order to respect them, because that is absolute bullshit. I have plenty of religious friends, of many denominations, and many of my family members have faith. The difference is, that I only enter a conversation about religion when someone is happy with it, I don't tell them what I think out of the blue, I sat quietly through the christening of my nephew, despite my conviction that baptism of a child is morally wrong, I don't start the conversation, because it would be disrespectful. Nor did I start this conversation with you, you entered into it freely, after it had already begun.

You want a change in subject? Then stop beating out the same objections over and over again. And unles you can think of something new to add to what youve trotted out thus far, then I guess this conversation is at an end, because you have now broken enough of the rules I abide by in conversation on pretty much any subject

And then here’s Hazel’s lovely statement evidencing her hypocrisy. The woman blasted me for asking someone to give more facts about the circumstances surrounding her father’s death, and yet she said this in a past post. Now Hazel, do you or do you not uphold that statement? If you do you should be embarrassed by yourself.

message 1470: by Hazel
Its not a mistake to expect that someone provide evidence for something that they assert. Its rational to do so.



You got it all, Whirlwind..I am happy that there is someone here who spotted it...

[Shanna]

Funny, the words uppity and petty just came to mind.....
You speaking for Hazel and her pals now, Whirlwind, you had such a problem with that a few posts ago.

[Connie]

Yawn

[Shanna]

hypocrite!

[Connie]

And I think even less of you. Did you get any spit on yourself when you hissed that? If you're trying to rattle me you will fail. And what other nice things have you done today?

[Shanna]

at least you're consistent....

[Old-Barbarossa]

As I mentioned before:
Anyone want to talk about the thread subject?

[[deleted user]]

Let's forget about science and religion, they're not worth fighting over. Certainly not worth dying for - martyrs to science or religion (e.g. Galileo and Thomas Moore)obviously took themselves and their beliefs way too seriously.
I'm all for returning to the trees and playing with my monkey friends. Or to use a religious metaphor, let's go back to Eden.
So cummon Guys, let's all kiss and make-up.
That wasn't so bad, was it?

[Elisa Santos]

This thread has just died.....all vital signs gone for ever beep-beep-beep (flat line).

[Shanna]

Maria wrote: "This thread has just died.....all vital signs gone for ever beep-beep-beep (flat line)."

yeah sorry about that, but something needed to be said at least I thought so.

[Giansar]

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "As I mentioned before:
Anyone want to talk about the thread subject?"
Are you out of your mind trying to break a catfight like that?
Have you no survival instinct?

[Elisa Santos]

Shanna wrote: "Maria wrote: "This thread has just died.....all vital signs gone for ever beep-beep-beep (flat line)."

yeah sorry about that, but something needed to be said at least I thought so."

Don´t appologise - i think this all has gone way beyond everything reasonable - and i joined very recently but, from the experience that i have, this is a gonner. Shame....i always think that everything can be discussed within education, reason and no fundamentalisms but i guess it cannot always be like that.

Giansar - do you wish for me to buy the mud pit, for the gals to fight???hahahaha notice how i have already excluded myself.....

[Alfie]

Whirlwind wrote: "And I think even less of you. Did you get any spit on yourself when you hissed that? If you're trying to rattle me you will fail. And what other nice things have you done today?"

I'd tried to ask this question to all of them before, Whirlwind...I observed that they are just too quick to to see the faults..Well, to do criticism is the easiest thing that a person can do..It does not need an intellectual mind..You just need a keen eyes in order to see the faults of others and use it for your own argument...Like you, I was aking if what are the goodness that these people have done in order to make the lives of the people all over the world and this world better..Usually, people who are quick to criticize are the people who have done nothing which contradicts to the words words they utter...Again, my thanks to you whirlwind..

[Shanna]

which question?
"Did you get any spit on yourself when you hissed that?" or "And what other nice things have you done today?"

[Hazel]

right, one last post, whirlwind, you're absolutely right, at times I've got frustrated and posted some less than polite things, but there are some posts with apologies on for doing so as well. Something, by the way, I've only see you do once, and then it came across as sarcastic and insincere ("I'm sorry, but etc etc")

Alfie, I can apolgise for being rude to you, so with absolute sincerity, I'm sorry for being blunt and rude, and regret any upset I may have caused you.

I'm leaving this conversation now, because I've realised theres something that I want to hear less than someoen preaching religion, and thats someone proselytising over feminism from an extremist point of view.

I hope you all have a great day.

[Elisa Santos]

Whirlwind, i am so glad you had a nice evening with a like-minded person - maybe that is what is lacking in your life: someone to share your thoughts and rants. I will even go to the point of saying that you must have showned a better version of yourself, certainly better, because the sarcasm that you show in here would creep the poor man out of his mind.

If we, mere mortals cannot keep up with your "beautifull mind"....what the heck are you still doing here?! Then, this is not the site for you - there is bound to be out there a forum more adequate to your special trades and needs.

[Alfie]

you don't have to say sorry, hazel..You were already forgiven,for, I, too, might have committed a mistake against you...

I also quit myself from this page...Peace to all of us...

[Edward]

This debate has had me really thinking about long and hard. Although I would still pick science over religion, I have reassessed my reasoning to include a need for spirituality. Prayer may have more than just a psychological impact. I've thought about the hard times in my life when it did feel like a higher power was guiding me. Mind you, I'm not someone that attends church or advocates going to mass or temple. I think it's shortsighted to just throw nature in as a replacement for God. The power of belief, when not corrupted by politics or money, is a powerful force in itself. I agree with Shakespeare: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

[Elisa Santos]

To me, the need for spirituality is natural in the human being, so, in that capacity, we will always tend to, at least, have a chat with with the outer forces, the energy surrounding us, etc.

I have a special attachment to Our Lady of Fátima and in times of great stress i will "talk" to her - not prayer: i do not even know how to pray. But i will talk, expose my problems, but i know that if i don´t make things happen or find the solutions to my problems, no one will do it for me, so it regard these conversations as another way of reaching in to the deep of my mind.

To clarify that i do not attend mass - well, just the odd funeral, christening or wedding; and the power of belief, as you say Edward, when not corrupted is beautifull and pure, not harmfull.

[Xdyj]

I don't think it's very nice to do personal attack in a debate, and a lot of personal attacks here seem to be between regulars who are atheists or liberal theists and hold similar views in most social issues mentioned in this thread.

[Old-Barbarossa]

Am I the only one that can see the irony?

[Shanna]

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Am I the only one that can see the irony?"

Nope not at all, but there are none so blind as they that will not see.

[Hazel]

I hate breaking my word, but there is another post in me to be placed here.

Whirlwind, thankyou, thankyou so much, reading your posts the last few days has made me seriously re-evaluate how I am. I have said some nasty things at times in this thread, I believe you picked out a dozenish posts over 29 pages of posts, whiuch is about equal to the number of your posts consisting mainly of petty vitriol, bile and finger pointing, in the last 3 pages alone. Watching you has made me realise that "there but for the grace of god, goes I", if people will excuse the use of the term. If I allow myself to continue debating these things in the way I've been doing, I'm going to end up as bitter and obnoxious as you.

As such, to everyone I've argued and debated with. I'm sorry. If you have faith, and you're happy and hurting no-one, no matter what you faith is in, be it God, Allah, or even Source, thats all that matters, because you are no doubt all lovely people.

So thankyou Whirlwind for being an example to us all.

[Elisa Santos]

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Am I the only one that can see the irony?"

Nope - that has not escaped anyone - even the one´s who haven´t been around much - even a blind man can see it.

Whirlwind, don´t you like the taste of your own medicine, aye? Because takes one vitriolic bitch to know another! The mirror only reflects what´s already there....
Oh and another tiny bit of info; if you did not care at all for the things i said, because, as you have said already, this is not your real personnality - just some borrowed one for internet and when you feel like being a total arseole, you would not bother to waste your time and come here and try to rattle me - you would just be perfectly at ease with your own self, since i did not strike any chord....but i suspect you have some issues that i will not tackle in here, because i quite simply do not care a toss about them.

But thank you so very much for your compliments - rather a bitch with some intelectual integrity than some false beacon of truth.

On the matter at hand, i will say as Hazel: have you creeds of any kind or not, believe what you will, as long as you respect others, you will be fine and no one will feel unconfortable beside you.

[Elisa Santos]

Whirlwind if you noticed i have only joined the convo about 2 weeks ago, maybe less - still have to skim the posts to see - but you are right: even in the most heated discussion, one should never loose their education and their head on it.

I appologise to any and everyone for the tonne of the posts because it is not fitting to post in such a manner and i am not really like this, at all.
I am truly sorry.

[Shanna]

@Old-Barbarossa Evidently not everyone can see the irony.

[Old-Barbarossa]

Whirlwind wrote: "Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Am I the only one that can see the irony?"

The irony was deliberate and intentional so you observation wasn't as clever as you seem to think."

I don't think my observation was particularly clever, merely stating a viewpoint.
As to the irony being "deliberate and intentional", was it also meant to be cruel and barbed? Your wording was fairly agressive and yet you go on to discuss bullying as if you were the injured party...the irony may have been "deliberate and intentional", but it wasn't very useful.
Also, you mentioned earlier about cowardice on the thread, then after a barrage of swearing go all meak with: "Cow. Uh, that's not the word I really want to use by the way." You seem to have used many other ofensive words aimed at other posters...is there a line you won't cross? Is this it?
This is much more fun that the original post question, which I have resigned myself to the fact will probably not be touched on again, as when we try and nudge it back on track, Whirlwind, you seem very keen to swear at people and describe how smashing you are. You claim to be "at par with" someone with a "beautiful mind..." which after all the sweary vitriol I find a little bit bewildering...
As to pushing you out of the conversation, you seem to have avoided the conversation for several posts and limited your contributions to personal attacks against other posters.
Anyway...
Whether it's swearing and abuse or the actual topic of the post I'll hang around a bit longer...it is jolly entertaining.

[Connie]

Maria wrote: "Whirlwind if you noticed i have only joined the convo about 2 weeks ago, maybe less - still have to skim the posts to see - but you are right: even in the most heated discussion, one should never loose their education and their head on it.

I appologise to any and everyone for the tonne of the posts because it is not fitting to post in such a manner and i am not really like this, at all.
I am truly sorry. "

You are? You're not "really like this at all"? Yet you demeaned me for saying that I'm not this way in person, either! It's a known FACT that some people use a persona on the internet and it's very common. So now who's "bipolar"???? You?, or Me?? Both of us, or neither one of us? Because if you look at your post that was just another one of the caustic things you ran me down about. Apparently this ain't over 'til it's over because I'd like to get it all straightened out once and for all. Look who's calling the kettle black, huh? Look at all yourselves for just one moment, that's what I'm trying to do here. You bully and target me, but you're all guilty. And Barbarossa, I had no ill will towards you but you chimed in, what for, just for kicks? And then out of the blue comes Shanna screaming "hypocrite". WTF? Acting like a mob of rabid pack animals. What a show. Just a thought, but neither religion nor science can help the human race and, is it any wonder that people lose faith in human nature? It's all been spelled out right here on this discussion group. It's a lost cause.

[Old-Barbarossa]

Whirlwind wrote: " And Barbarossa, I had no ill will towards you but you chimed in, what for, just for kicks? "

Well...yes.
As an intellectual exercise.
Just because you aimed nothing at me doesn't mean I enjoy reading your posts much. Barbs and putdowns can be delivered in a witty manner, your's show a lack of effort.
Just being angry and swearing is a tad boring.
Be more creative. Having set yourself on a par with the "beautiful minds" I am expecting Wildian flights of rhetoric...I get sweary rants (that are self censored at that).
Do it properly Whirlwind...at the minute you just come across as an angry person with too much time on their hands.

[Shanna]

Wow, pot, kettle, Black...

[Old-Barbarossa]

Oh, wasn't expecting that...
That mean we can all be grown up about things again?
OK...
As I mentioned before:
Anyone want to talk about the thread subject?
(Just as I'd given up on it...)

[Elisa Santos]

Whirlwind, i intended to say those words - not bipolar or anything - and after reading the post again i saw that i didn´t included something: to you, i really am agravated and mean every word that i´ve said to you; what i appologised for was to the OTHER posters who really don´t have to put up with all this non-sense conversation and were caught up and that the convo has long gonne completly off track in all ways possible.
You go on and call me a cow? Wow, originality here! Please, can we get a Nobel for this lady here? Bone-head of the century - that would be a fitting award for you.
Get a life, get a humour - we do it a lot here: keeps the doctor and angry people like you at large. Like someone said , all things can be said in the grounds of education and wittyness - when we gave up on that we are giving up what separates us from animals.
Like an old saying here and especcially for you Whirlwind i will try to translate - "if you don´t want to be confused with the wolf, don´t put his fur on your back".

[Shanna]

I like the wolf saying Maria I might borrow that one.

[Shanna]

Whirlwind wrote "Alright? Your unkindness is uncalled for."

So let me get this straight, now you want niceness not honesty?

[Fede]

I'm not sure if I really want to make a choiche.
I don't understand or follow any religion,but as far as I'm concerned with,i'm really scared that scientific progress could fall in the wrong hands an ruin and destroy all that we've built so far.
I think I'll prefere living in a world where pure science is the only religion.
Sorry for any mistakes,I'm italian :)

[Tina]

They have both impacted the lives of humans do much that i do not think we could live without one or the other.

[Roxy]

Tina wrote: "They have both impacted the lives of humans do much that i do not think we could live without one or the other."

Message 2002,

Tina, are you sure about that? Of course it could be possible to live without science, but it would mean living in a tent or a cave. Almost everything we have has been because of science.

Atheists live without religion.

Perhaps you ment something else, please explain.

[[deleted user]]

Have people argued, within these posts, that religion is the root of all evil? That patriarchy and patriarchal religions have led to wanton abuse of women?

Did the very woman who argued those points, especially the latter, just call other women ... (I'm almost speechless ...)?

Irony? Loads. And ... religion and patriarchy have done evil but aren't the root of all evil.

[Shanna]

Whirlwind wrote: "Shanna wrote: "Whirlwind wrote "Alright? Your unkindness is uncalled for."

So let me get this straight, now you want niceness not honesty?"

Cunt"
Ahhh delicious irony soup......

[Shanna]

Whirlwind wrote: "Maria wrote: "Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Am I the only one that can see the irony?"

Nope - that has not escaped anyone - even the one´s who haven´t been around much - even a blind man can see it.

Whi..."
Ooohh look, another serve.

[Neilly]

Science, no religion

[Cheri]

Whirlwind wrote: "Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Whirlwind wrote: " And Barbarossa, I had no ill will towards you but you chimed in, what for, just for kicks? "

Well...yes.
As an intellectual exercise.
Just because you aim..."

Whirlwind, Please see a doctor about your chronic pain from your accident. Your pain or the medication you are on seem to make you angry, self absorbed and unreasonable.

Old Barbarossa, I would like to particiapate in this thread without it being 'all about Whirlwind, all the time'. I think it is an important discussion with some thoughtful people participating. But it is off topic most of the time. Maybe the thread should be renamed, 'Whirlwind tells you everything that is wrong with you' and a new thread can be started about science and religion.

[Giansar]

"Whirlwind" wrote: "Maria also indicated that Whirlwind needed someone in her life. Thanks Maria but that’s already been taken care of. His name is Fe_____ Zag____y. He is from Poland. "
Feliks Zagórny?
Take a good care of him. We Poles are very fragile and sensitive ;)

[Giansar]

Argh! There are exactly three male first names used in Poland that start with 'Fe' and I still missed!

[Misty]

Talk about the perfect discussion to turn everyone into a pack of angry apes. That and politics would just start a storm like no other. I don't even know how to answer that. So I'll just use a quote, like a gentlemen.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein

[Connie]

I'm surprised that Einstein is credited for saying something like that.

And it does get a bit heated around here at times, but that's human nature when religion gets bandied about by the average schmuck. LOL Academics are better at healthy argument.

[Alpha]

I am going to say neither if you're talking about an institution. I am more for truth and faith. Institutionalizing truth is science and doing the same for faith is religion. :D

[Cheri]

“I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations.”
― Albert Einstein

[[deleted user]]

I'd bye religion goodbye straight away.

[Deemah]

We as Muslims cannot have " Faith" without "knowledge "..in several pages in our holy book " The Qur'aan" God tells us to look at the world and to think very deeply to this universe in order to keep our faith . ( you can ask anyone about this part or you can take a look at the holy book"
So we believe in " No knowledge No Faith "
so our faith as Muslims must be based on knowledge.