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How much do you value your work?
Sometimes you have to look and see if there is some kind of alleged publisher. Some of those vanity presses price them out of the water as they are really only interested in selling the author their own books and a bunch of package deal crap which are promises of things they never do.Other times I think, if it's a true indie author, they haven't paid much attention to what other books are priced at in the same category as their own.
Edit to add there is more production cost to printing, even a POD.
My paperback sells for $17.95 but most of the books of a similar nature sell for $19.95. But it's non-fiction, which tends to be a different price point than fiction. The ebook edition however is $3.99
Good question. I had to raise my price when I enlisted my printed books with Createspace's special distribution and although it was only a few $ more and less than 15$, I wasn't too happy about it. Now, $29.99? Nope, I don't want to pick up a fight either but even known authors whom I've read before and loved are out of my price range when they ask that much for their hardcover. I can't see myself buying a SP for that kind of money.
I'm not referring to non-fiction (which is another beast altogether). I'm talking about paperback, fiction novels between 200 and 400 pages that are over 15 bucks. I don't want to pay over ten, though I've gone to 12 (sale price on a 14.99 novel). Beyond that, I really don't consider it competitive...and I'm annoyed.
Hardcover is crazy pricy to produce as a POD. Lulu is the cheapest and it's not cheap. I don't sell them on Amazon as then I'd have to add in their cut and it would be like $32.00!
I don't buy hardcovers at all. I like paperbacks, but selfies are turning me off with their pricing. If there's a good reason to charge $20 - $30 for a paperback, I'd like to know what is it.
Sorry, Jen, didn't realize you meant just fiction. It's because of the cost of printing, and then the vendors cut (Amazon or who ever) plus the few bucks the author gets, the author making the least.
I have never seen a book for $29.99 on Amazon! Other than non-fiction hardback with tons of illustrations!I can only imagine they have no idea what they are doing!
I sell my print version for $10.99 I think. Have never sold one--but I really don't expect to sell many paperbacks. They are out there mostly so I have something to print for live events....otherwise my ebook is $2.99 and $1.99 for a novella
I'm amazed you've paid $12. My monthly book allotment is next to zero (unless my son needs the next Wimpy Kid, my other son is dying for the hardcover volcano book at Half-Price or my daughter sees the very newest Dora with portable music player thing). I'm all for supporting each other as authors, but the print editions are astronomical... For me anyway.I applaud you for being a supporter. I cannot fathom a $30 fiction book unless it's a signed copy (by, like Michael Crichton or Stephen King...). Even with print costs, it seems a bit out there...
It can't be merely the cost of printing, as most authors price their work between ten and fifteen dollars - and by most, I'm referring to other selfies. If one author prices his 400 page, 9x6 paperback at $12.99, and another author (with the same page count and size) prices theirs at $27.99... that's just insane.
The way I look at it is this: I will (and have) paid $12.00 for a traditionally published author's book, and have no problem paying the same for a selfie if the quality is there.The quality will NEVER be enough to justify thirty bucks for a paperback. Not for me, anyway.
Jen wrote: "I check out A LOT of indie titles, and though most ebooks are competitively priced, I've noticed some staggering list prices for paperbacks. I'm talking 300-400 pages for as much as $29.99. WTH?I..."
Amazon has my paperback priced $16.95 right now, but it's 720 pgs. and costs around $12 to print! Then the book seller takes their cut. The hardback costs even more, of course. The books are printed and distributed through a large reputable company who also print and distribute for large publishers, but printing costs are high for Indies. Large publishing companies typically use cheaper paper and can order in such quantities that they can sell at a much lower price. I don't make much profit off my books.
I have my e-book set rather high right now as I'm not sure I want to continue to offer that format. But $29 does seem extremely high for a normal length book, especially an Indie paperback.
Hmmm. 720 pages? The pricing isn't too far out there, for that. Look, I know no one makes much off their paperbacks, but neither do traditionally published authors. I read somewhere that they earn around 5% per book sold (which is, admittedly, dated/possibly inaccurate information). The $12 selfie I bought earned the author all of 4 cents. Ridiculous, but had the price been 3 or 4 dollars more, I never would have bought it. I think most people feel the same way.
Jen wrote: "It can't be merely the cost of printing, as most authors price their work between ten and fifteen dollars - and by most, I'm referring to other selfies. If one author prices his 400 page, 9x6 paper..."I've never seen a paperback that high, indie or not. I use Createspace for my print-on-demand option, and they set a minimum price. I'd like to sell my books for $10 or less, but their formula with size and page count bring the cost up to $13.99. Amazon usually goes ahead and prices it for a little less, though.
The book is obviously overpriced. In most cases the POD paperback makes the author less money. Perhaps this is the author's method of keeping his profits up.As to printing costs, given the modern cloud technology used to store these books, the printing costs are minimal. We're not talking about typesetting here. The writer pays with reduced commission for the slight inconvenience of printing and shipping one book.
When I first self published my novel I bought 100 copies at $10 each from a book printer that I used (as much as I could afford)it had 482 pages. The e-book version was picked up by a UK publisher and they re-issued it (under another name) as hardback 264 pages - it is currently on Book Depository for $24.56 (free postage)so $29.99 for a paperback is high to say the least. Funny enough the original paperback is still available on Book Depository for $20.00 :-o)
Jen wrote: "I check out A LOT of indie titles, and though most ebooks are competitively priced, I've noticed some staggering list prices for paperbacks. I'm talking 300-400 pages for as much as $29.99. WTH?"I guess the decimal point slipped to the right... *grin*
Jen, if the paperback is truly self-published (not published through a vanity press) there is no good reason for it to be priced that high. If it's a newly published book, the author is likely just trying to fleece his/her friends and family.
I use CreateSpace for my paperbacks, and to go with full distribution for my 370-page novel I had to raise the price from $9.95 to nearly $13, and I still make almost nothing on it compared to ebooks. I never expected to sell many paperbacks, and so far I haven't. I just wanted to offer an alternative to those who don't like ebooks. But CreateSpace calculates the minimum price you can set, and beyond that there's little room for adjustment. It seems possible that some authors might price their paperbacks outrageously to scare buyers back to the ebook section, where they make the bulk of their sales and a bigger profit.
I'm sorry this has to be so long, but it's necessary for this discussion.My first novel was published by Publish America, which was an unmitigated disaster. They have since changed their name, but that snake is still somewhere in the grass. I really don't want any other writers to suffer the way I did.
It all started with a scam agent. Agents come in two basic forms. There's the honest agent who works hard to make sales and earn their 10-15%. Scam agents have fees for everything including their representation. It is a great point of embarrassment that I paid a scam agent $200 a month for representation. After a couple years I finally saw the handwriting on the wall. I lost my job and was unable to pay the monthly fee. This agent was contractually entitled to 15% of a sale and he dropped me like a hot potato, but the true damage had already taken place. He hooked me up with a smoke and mirrors contract with Publish America.
What does a smoke and mirrors contract look like? I'll get to that in a moment. I have to get to this price thing. My paperbacks were priced at $24.95 and hardcovers at $34.95. Who in their right mind would pay that kind of money for a book?
Let me get back to the smoke and mirrors contract. It was promised promotion in the news media nation wide. The thorn was hidden in a clause at the back of the contract. It was a simple statement which said that promotion was at the discretion of the publisher. Yeah, you get it. ZERO promotion, but the price issue was something special. I was to get a discount on my books, but that discount was a percentage of an outrageous retail price. I was able to buy the latest Stephen King novel at the bookstore for about the same price I paid for my own book. After adding shipping costs to the equation my profit margin was non-existent.
I was chained to that "publisher" for nearly ten years while I continued writing, continued trying to figure out marketing, continued trying to find a real agent.
Finally, after years of banging my head against the wall I came to recognize the dysfunction in the publisher/agent/author dynamic. I started my own personal ebook publishing company to make my novels available to readers.
As Creative Director at ScaryBob Productions my first assignment was to recover the rights to Devil Glass and that's when things got real interesting. They refused. They didn't want to deprive me of the title of published author. I asked for their terms for breaking the contract and they refused. I continued to ask and they continued to refuse.
When negotiations fail war happens. I couldn't afford a legal battle with that thousand pound gorilla so I took my war to the streets. I started writing editorials explaining Publish America's abusive business plan. These editorials went to all forms of the news media. Three torpedoes a day were dropped into the water. The second week I started including the governments of two states. I didn't know if any of my editorials were be printed. I was too busy firing and reloading.
After two weeks of war the enemy capitulated in an email. That was the first email I received that morning. The second one was from a Florida State Senator ready to jump into the fray. Sadly, I had to thank him for his support, but report that the war was over.
I don't think Publish America ever knew how close they came to getting nuked.
And that, dear friends, is how $24.95 paperbacks happen. Anyone who sees themselves in my words is welcome to my battle plan.
ScaryBob
https://www.goodreads.com/scarybob
They do discount, which is a good thing. I priced my book at $13.99 in order to reach all markets, and Amazon and Barnes & Noble marked it down to $11.40. That does make it more competitive.
I've just started with Createspace - motivated by a book signing scheduled next week which meant 'printed' books to sign. At $7.99 (286 pages) and $9.99 (392 pages, I think that's within competitive boundaries.I'm not using 'extended' marketing since it would raise both novels by $2-$4, putting the second one at $15 which I can't imagine anyone spending. Of course that means the only retailer for the print versions is amazon, who (surprise, surprise) currently discounts both books by a $1.
If someone is trying to sell a paperback at that price then they obviously don't know what they're doing. Even if an author was trying to make a profit, they wouldn't need to price it that hight.Printing a 6x9, 300 page paperback through lightning source (POD) costs $4.80 when you factor in the industry standard 55% wholesale discount, selling a book at $25 they would get a $6.45 profit. That's a crazy profit they're making. While most authors would love that kind of profit, most know that's unrealistic.
Now to work with what would be a more acceptable price for everyone. We'll start with the book selling at $10 like most seem to be okay with. If an author sold the same book at $10, they'd be in the negative. Negative $0.30 to be exact. And if they were to sell the book at the max $12 people would be willing to pay, they'd make $.60. Pretty sad. Many authors wouldn't want to make a $0.60 profit on a paperback book, not that anyone could blame them.
Unfortunately this is where authors need to be careful with their pricing because we come into gray area. Everyone in this thread has been voicing they would never pay more than $12 and would prefer it to be no more than $10 for a paperback. On the flip side said author wouldn't want to sell that book for less than $11-12 because they'd lose money which obviously isn't good. And if they go much higher, they may make a better profit, but they may lose interested readers. It's such a tough decision to make that can't be taken lightly.
C. wrote: "I'm sorry this has to be so long, but it's necessary for this discussion.ScaryBob, I admire you and wish you'd been around with those words of wisdom when a private editing client of mine refused to listen to me when I told him to stay away from places like that. He didn't and is now stuck with some horrendously highly-priced books that he'll never sell at anything resembling a profit.
The anniversary edition of this book is 25.26, but you can get the kindle edition free.http://www.amazon.com/Basilisk-Statio...
Shannon wrote: "If someone is trying to sell a paperback at that price then they obviously don't know what they're doing. Even if an author was trying to make a profit, they wouldn't need to price it that hight..."It's the expanded distribution option that pushes POD prices up - everyone in the chain wants their cut. Plus, POD books are printed to the standards of trade paperbacks, which are more expensive than mass-market paperbacks anyway. Self-publishers can't publish mass-market paperbacks unless they do a Hugh Howey and secure a print-only publishing deal.
I'm currently reading an ARC of Terry Brooks' new novel The High Druid's Blade, and the pricing info says the production book will be $27 for a hardcover 6-1/4 by 9-1/4 with 332 pages. Granted, that's for a hardcover from Del Rey. I think that's a little high, but I'm cheap when it comes to books. (Think $1 bin at estate sales or antique shops, the library, or giveaways here on GoodReads) So over $15 for a paperback seems pretty far out of line to me, as well. I'd just as soon read on my Nook, anyway. Then I don't have to figure out what I'm gonna do with the book after I devour it, as I rarely (as in never) reread books.
Jen wrote: "I'm not referring to non-fiction (which is another beast altogether). I'm talking about paperback, fiction novels between 200 and 400 pages that are over 15 bucks. I don't want to pay over ten..."You must not go to real-world bookstores anymore. The average trad-pub trade paperback is priced at $15-17. If you're a B&N member and use one of their occasional 20% off coupons, that lowers the price to $12-13.
My trade paperback sold in Amazon through CreateSpace is priced at $12.99, which is the lowest it can go without selling at a loss. I make a princely ~$1 off each one. The TPBKs I sell to the rest of the world through Lightning Source/Ingram have to go for $14.99 so I can clear about $0.90. POD is an expensive way to sell books.
If you're talking about mass-market paperbacks, then say so. Those are different animals.
As for $25+ paperbacks: check to see if that price is through a third-party seller. I've seen my books show up that way for silly money from time to time. I can assure you I had no hand in that pricing.
I know chapbooks sometimes are highly priced, although I don't know if this is the case it would certainly explain the ridiculousness. I don't know if there is a price code or what in the industry but $29.99? That's unbelievable. I once saw my first book listed for $45.00 on some random website, I laughed because not only did I know it was ridiculous but because back then my book was in shambles with a bad company. I would imagine no one in their right mind would pay such a price and even the author is probably wondering wth is going on.
I have done several in-person events, and the general consensus is that, at 12.95, my 341-pager is "a good deal." I get a little over $2 for each from CS and about 50 cents per copy from Ingram-Spark when B&N orders them.
Justin wrote: "I know chapbooks sometimes are highly priced, although I don't know if this is the case it would certainly explain the ridiculousness. I don't know if there is a price code or what in the industry ..."I saw my free book listed for $64 dollars. Perhaps they were trying to identify the insane.
I live in New Zealand, walk into a bookstore here and most paperbacks are priced around $29.99. All I can say is thank goodness for e-books :)
The only reason I bother to price a paperback is for book signings, and my pricing is set to cover printing and shipping plus a buck or two profit. The result is a price of around $12 to $15 for a 350 pg novel. I make about the same for the ebook priced at $2.99. I believe pricing should be set based on the profit you think you can demand -- paperback or ebook.
Jen wrote: "I don't buy hardcovers at all. I like paperbacks, but selfies are turning me off with their pricing. If there's a good reason to charge $20 - $30 for a paperback, I'd like to know what is it."Depending on what press used, they charge a wholesale cost that is the primary driver.
Example, I recently wrote a book that as 632 pages (6x9 format) and it was published using Ingram Spark as the press. (The Kalisun Initiative, if you are interested to see the physical specs in more detail)
Ingram Spark has two options, 40% and 55% wholesale mark up that you must use to fully exercise their world wide distribution network. If don't select one of those options, book stores like Barnes and Noble and Books a million won't stock it.
So if your book costs 10 dollars to print due to size, paper quality or binding and it's force marked up a chunk and then you tag on a dollar profit for the backend (either publisher or author), the price can climb rapidly.
Having said that, it's a toss up whether it's a good idea to go that route since those big groups won't stock it unless you move volume and if you get priced to high you don't move volume and it quickly becomes a bit of a chicken and egg problem.
Essentially as the price to print has ticked up (slightly) some people get caught up in that noodle chase.
Now, the book I referenced was over 600 pages and a large format. If I recall, the break point where it upticks suddenly is in the 500 page range (Due to spine requirements)
So 300-400 page books shouldn't have that big an issue, unless there is something else going on.
~N
I think we'd all love to price our books high given the money back would be a beautiful site but come on now, we are all realistic. One book for $30? I could buy like 10-15 paperbacks at that price and e-books? Oh my god I could buy a heck of alot of those!
Lance wrote: "You must not go to real-world bookstores anymore. The average trad-pub trade paperback is priced at $15-17. If you're a B&N member and use one of their occasional 20% off coupons, that lowers the price to $12-13.My trade paperback sold in Amazon through CreateSpace is priced at $12.99, which is the lowest it can go without selling at a loss. I make a princely ~$1 off each one. The TPBKs I sell to the rest of the world through Lightning Source/Ingram have to go for $14.99 so I can clear about $0.90. POD is an expensive way to sell books.
If you're talking about mass-market paperbacks, then say so. Those are different animals.
As for $25+ paperbacks: check to see if that price is through a third-party seller. I've seen my books show up that way for silly money from time to time. I can assure you I had no hand in that pricing."
First: What's the difference between paperback and mass market paperback?
Second: I'm referring to the list price by Amazon.
Third: No. There isn't a brick-and-mortar book store within 100 miles of where I live. When there was, I rarely bought anything there (too pricey). Almost all my book purchases are through Amazon. It's easy, fast, (relatively) cheap.
Jen wrote: "First: What's the difference between paperback and mass market paperback?Second: I'm referring to the list price by Amazon."
The primary difference between the two is that a mass market paperback uses a slightly different paper/ink combo. Usually the paper is a different color where a tradebook will either be white or some form of cream colored. The paper in a trade paperback seems to be a slightly thicker stock as well.
As for amazon, i honestly can't figure out what goes on with their price sometimes.
My book was priced through the POD dealer higher then i would have preferred (24.95 i think). Day one on amazon it sold for 24.95. Day 2, with no real reason there were copies for 14.95 and a copy for 41 dollars. It seems to mostly oscillate between 15 and 21 now, but it's not controlled by the publisher at all. I get paid the same in any event, so all i can figure is that amazon is undercutting the brick n mortar stores by chopping down on the wholesale price (their end).
The only thing that Amazon seems to keep the price stable at is the ebooks. It says what you set it to unless you do some free give away thing (which i haven't tried)
So, if you set the price to 12.99, they can instead list the price at 30 bucks? That's insane!
Jen wrote: "So, if you set the price to 12.99, they can instead list the price at 30 bucks? That's insane!"I don't think it's amazon themselves doing it. It's these weird little book vendors that look like semi-legit websites. I think they count on people not being familiar with amazon and mis-clicking.
I asked about it, got a form letter back.
Ken wrote: "But CreateSpace calculates the minimum price you can set, and beyond that there's little room for adjustment."I just found out today that opting in to Expanded Distribution on CreateSpace raises the cost of your book by a few dollars. I just opted out and lowered prices to the bare-minimum, then rounded off at 99 cents. Now I have some normal looking paperback prices.
I really don't think a library or store is going to be ordering my books, so there's no downside to not being in Expanded Distribution. And since I'm only one year into being self-published, profit is not even a consideration, so I was really glad to learn that I could lower my prices this way.
Almost no one buys the paperbacks, but it at least makes for a more consumer-friendly appearance to have realistic pricing.
Jen wrote: "What's the difference between paperback and mass market paperback?"Mass-market paperback is the "pocket book": typically 7"x4" (or now, 7.5"x4.25"), smaller print, cheaper paper. Sells for anything from $5.99 to $9.99, typically now $7.99. Sold in airports, grocery stores, and drug stores, as well as bookstores.
Trade paperback is the bridge between MPBK and hardcover. Larger format (typically 5.5"x8.5" or 6"x9"), better paper, better typography. These are becoming the common hardcover alternative now that e-books are cannibalizing the mass-market format. In most ways that count, these are hardcover editions with paper covers.
CreateSpace does not support a MM trim size. Lightning Source does; print cost for a MM version of my first book would be $6.67. Add Ingram's margin and the seller's premium, and a MM paperback would easily cost more than $10.
Even at $14.95 everyplace but Amazon, I still beat the price of trad-pub TPBKs by a buck or two. At $12.99, I underprice the big boys by $2-4 on Amazon. So while spending $25+ for a normal-sized fiction trade paperback is silly, expecting to get a new trade paperback for less than $10 is also silly.
Many of the trad-pubbed authors I buy want between 10 and fifteen for 5x8 or 9x6 (estimates only, my ruler is MIA). While that is high, to me, I still spend the money. Over fifteen, I won't. Period. Not for a selfie, not for Stephen King.
Edward wrote: "Ken wrote: "But CreateSpace calculates the minimum price you can set, and beyond that there's little room for adjustment."
I just found out today that opting in to Expanded Distribution on CreateS..."
I just opted INTO it. I was [not] selling paperbacks at Amazon and CreateSpace anyway, even at the lower price; with expanded distribution I'm now [not] selling paperbacks in much classier places.
I just found out today that opting in to Expanded Distribution on CreateS..."
I just opted INTO it. I was [not] selling paperbacks at Amazon and CreateSpace anyway, even at the lower price; with expanded distribution I'm now [not] selling paperbacks in much classier places.
Jen wrote: "First: What's the difference between paperback and mass market paperback?"
A trade paperback was originally a paper bound version of a hardcover - that is the page size and number were identical to the hardcover, but the softer binding and lighter grade paper made it cheaper.
A 'mass market' paperback is smaller, uses lower grade paper and won't have the same contrast of ink to paper in terms of resolution. These are the paperbacks we associate with airports and supermarkets, although the few remaining bookstores carry them, too.
In the US, last I checked, mass market fiction paperbacks were running ~8.99-9.99 and trade paperbacks $12.99-14.99. That may have gone up slightly. I need to make a B&N run.
Ken wrote: "I just opted INTO it. I was [not] selling paperbacks at Amazon and CreateSpace anyway, even at the lower price; with expanded distribution I'm now [not] selling paperbacks in much classier places."L M A O
E.G. wrote: "A trade paperback was originally a paper bound version of a hardcover - that is the page size and number wer..."Thanks, E.G.
Nick wrote: "Jen wrote: "So, if you set the price to 12.99, they can instead list the price at 30 bucks? That's insane!"I don't think it's amazon themselves doing it. It's these weird little book vendors that look like semi-legit websites. I think they count on people not being familiar with amazon and mis-clicking.
I asked about it, got a form letter back."
Some of these vendors use pricing bots that can go a little haywire.
You think $29.99 for a paperback is bad? Check out this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Got-Twins-Rambl...
(This book happens to be from Publish America, but even they can't be the whole story.)
I don't price above $15 on my paperbacks because that's the maximum amount I personally am willing to pay for paperbacks. Anything higher and it better be a hardcover. I also use Create Space, as do many in this thread. My latest book is 304 pages ( Othella ), and CS gives me a minimum price of $11.90 for it.
I'm planning to release it at $14.99, my maximum price -- I will, however, be dropping that price as time goes on (as in, when I release the next book in the series).
My other book ( Echoes ), which is a little shorter, is priced at $12.99. Same deal with that one -- I'll price drop when the sequel comes out.
I do get a few paperback sales every now and then, but whenever they're from ED, I get about 50 cents. It's only an Amazon sale that really nets me any money for paperback sales.
As for those who price absurdly high...well, if you want to go for that, go for it, but that's not exactly a sound strategy for growing your readership. :/
Goodreads Authors/Readers
Books mentioned in this topic
Othella (other topics)Echoes (other topics)
I won't pay this, and I don't know anyone who would. Can anyone explain the logic of this to me? If your paperback is over 15 bucks...why?
(Not trying to pick a fight here. I just don't get it.)