Stephen King Fans discussion
The Stand Buddy Read
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The Stand Part One: June 1 - June 30
I finished Book 1 also. forcing myself not to read ahead.
Karen B - the dark man is also in the Dark Tower series. And the way they describe his 'high place' in the dreams matches descriptions of the tower. (Sorry, don't know how to reply properly; probably because I'm on my phone not the computer).
I have also finished book one and read on, because I can't hold back when I'm reading King's writing. 😜
I have a few more thoughts about Book 1. For some reason certain phrases grab me and one of those is "smiled wanly" or "wan smile". I wish that I had made note of how many times that King used this in book 1 but I would bet that it was at least 10 times. I also noticed that he used the description full dark several times so I started to highlight it. This caught my attention because he named a collection of stories "Full Dark, No Stars" which I think is a wonderful title for the collection that he put together. In book 1 I highlighted this phrase "full dark" 3 times and he has used it twice so far in book two.
Another cool nod to himself occurs when Frannie says, "Flu made who" which is a play on who made who by ACDC and therefore Maximum Overdrive.
I'm just way behind on this and not very far into the book either (though I've already read it twice.) But I do think King draws strong women. It would be hard not to, considering the women who had such a strong influence on his life... especially Tabby who is his idea reader and who he says he admires so much because of her strength and talent... and let's face it, she probably engineered that drugs and alcohol intervention that saved his life. BTW I like Franny very much and think she's an important player in the story.
I think Franny is a strong woman too. First in her dealing with Jesse and her pregnancy. Later when (view spoiler) and this is just in Book One.
Nick wrote: "I'm just way behind on this and not very far into the book either (though I've already read it twice.) But I do think King draws strong women. It would be hard not to, considering the women who had..."I read that Tabby scoured the house and his office and gathered an entire Hefty bag of empty bottles (alcohol and coke) and dropped them at his feet before the planned family intervention! A FULL Hefty bag. It boggles the mind.
Joanie wrote: "ElleEm-I love your point about Jungleland being and epic song. I wrote a note "why Jungleland?" and need to sit and listen to it in the context of the Stand.I keep thinking of the line "a barefoot ..."It's from Jungleland, right at the beginning. I'm still on the Book 1 but I keep thinking that later on, as people are (presumably since I haven't actually read that part yet) traveling the countryside, someone could come upon a scene like this.
Claire wrote: "Karen B - the dark man is also in the Dark Tower series. And the way they describe his 'high place' in the dreams matches descriptions of the tower. (Sorry, don't know how to reply properly; proba..."
I made note of the use of "full dark" too! Most people say "complete" or "total" and say "darkness" and not just "dark." Other than his story collection, I don't remember noticing that expression in his other writing but I don't know that I was looking too closely. Has anyone noticed this in other King books?
I've been surprised at how many people are anti-Franny. It's been years since I read it, so re-reading it is awesome! I don't even know which version I originally read, to be honest, but I now have a copy of each and am reading the uncut version on my Kindle, currently. I'm not very far in, but so far I kind of like Fran. She seems to have a toughness to her. She's not cold, but seems able to compartmentalize, which is a good trait, really. As for the way he treats male and female characters, so far his women seem pretty realistic to me. Even if they are a bit rough, in parts, you get a pretty good idea why. With the men who are weak, or cruel, they just seem to have innate character flaws. But again, I'm not that deeply into it, yet...
I've always really liked Frannie in the book, but Ringwald's portrayal of her made me dislike her on screen. I wonder if some who don't like her in the book saw the series first?
I liked Molly Ringwald's portrayal of Frannie. I saw the series before reading the book the first time and I thought all of the casting was great except for Randall Flagg. Jamey Sheridan, although a good actor just didn't seem dark enough for Randall Flagg.
Angel wrote: "I've been surprised at how many people are anti-Franny. It's been years since I read it, so re-reading it is awesome! I don't even know which version I originally read, to be honest, but I now have..."Me too, Angel. I like her a lot so far. (view spoiler)
Madeleine wrote: "Hi everyone, I am reading The Stand for the first time , so I am very excited! (The uncut version) , I have mainly heard some good things about the book, but recently some negative as well. I've re..."yes it will all come clear in the end actually quite a bit sooner then that. Because of the size of the book it allows him more room to flesh out his characters, giving them greater depth.
Summer wrote: "I think that if the book were set current day, [spoilers removed]On a different note, I really like Frannie's dad. [spoilers removed]"
Summer I agree with you on your assessment of this happening in the present. (view spoiler).
You are right about Frannies Dad.
Madeleine wrote: "Hey Kandice, the negative comments that I remember in general is the problem with the representation of women in the book, and so far there are already a few things that bothered me in that sense. ..."The problem is when this was written that was the norm. It would never fly if it was written in the present.
mrbooks wrote: "Madeleine wrote: "Hey Kandice, the negative comments that I remember in general is the problem with the representation of women in the book, and so far there are already a few things that bothered ..."I agree. I'm 66, King's age roughly and that is how I'm reading the book for the 4th time. If he was to write it again today there would be stronger women characters.
I guess you had to be brought up in the era of his writing to understand how the writing was done. It is not meant to disrespect women on to demean them. When we grew up we were taught it is a mans job to protect women and provide for them as they are the weaker sex.OK I know that sounds sexist, but at the time it wasn't. Trust me I know the fallacy of the statement I know how strong women are and am not afraid to say they are more often then not stronger emotionally and in some cases physically then men.
I do not think that way, but that is how we were taught.
I am in that same age range and so it didn't seem odd to may the way women were written in the novel.
Nick, of course King writes a bunch of strong female characters that are awesome, but in some of his earliers works it is easy to spot stereotypical and/or whiny female characters, and sometimes it can be annoying, but like others said, at the time it was written, it was how society pictured women in books, movies, etc. Today they would obviously not be represented like that. I agree, mrbooks, but the only thing in your statement that could be revised is the fact that you said that back in the days it wasn't sexist, because it was, it's just that it was a taboo subject at that time, and that's why the representation of women of that kind seemed 'normal'. At the time when the book was published, and even before, there were already waves of feminism to denounce sexism and things as such. Anyway, I don't want to be annoying myself and get too deep in the subject haha! Since my last comment I read a lot and I am slowly starting to like it more! So you guys are right, it will all start to makes sense soon! I can't wait to finish Book 1 and start book 2!
I'm one of the folks who aren't a fan of Frannie and I read the book a few times before I watched the miniseries. I agree, though; I don't think Ringwald's portrayal helped my opinion of Frannie at all. I think my opinion of Frannie is colored by her interactions with Harold. (view spoiler)
On a different note, I just made it to Nick's introduction and I'm excited. He's one of my favorite characters (view spoiler)
I have a question for those that have read both the originally published novel and the uncut. Don't read the spoiler if you haven't read the book!(view spoiler)
ElleEm wrote: "I have a question for those that have read both the originally published novel and the uncut. Don't read the spoiler if you haven't read the book![spoilers removed]"
Not as I remember, but I will let you know when I reach that part of the book.
Summer wrote: "I'm one of the folks who aren't a fan of Frannie and I read the book a few times before I watched the miniseries. I agree, though; I don't think Ringwald's portrayal helped my opinion of Frannie at..."Frannie can be a bit that way (view spoiler)
Yes I feel the same way about our friend Nick one of my favorite characters in the book.
My favorite so far is Nick Andros as well, such a great character!
Nick will always be my favorite character, and like Summer said, every single time I wish "not this time."
LOL I thought I was the only one who hoped it would go differently for Nick each time I read this or watch the show.
Not to make everyone unhappy but I can't help thinking that when people say there are no strong women characters I wonder, what about Franny's mother, what about Larry's mother? Carla may be a monster but no one can say she wasn't strong... flawed but strong. And Larry's mother... she was great, stronger than Larry, the fact that she didn't have the options to be a raging success in her job doesn't take anything away from her, she was good and honest and powerful in her own way. And Jane (the sheriff's wife) is a strong and good character especially in light of the fact that it was her brother who beats up Nick. Those women are playing the roles that were available to them at the time, operating within the values of their time. Franny, on the other hand, could operate in a world with a new set of values. I DO think she's weakened by the fact that she keeps calling her father "Daddy." It's natural but weakening. Still, I will admit that King doesn't give too many real HERO roles to women the way that Joe Hill does in NOS4A2.
Some good points Nick. I had forgotten how strong Larry's mother is because she is only in a small part of Book I. Perhaps critics meant there was no strong presence of women. Maybe too it was the presentation of Rita in Book I, who stood out as a weak woman. She makes more of an impact on the reader I think than Larry's mother. I had thought of the Sheriff's wife too as a strong woman, but like Larry's mother, she only has a small part in Book I so it's easy to dismiss her when you're looking at the book as a whole.
Nick wrote: "Not to make everyone unhappy but I can't help thinking that when people say there are no strong women characters I wonder, what about Franny's mother, what about Larry's mother? Carla may be a mons..."So true! We are often confined by our circumstances despite being told we can be/do anything we want. It's not always true and these women were strong.
I just finished Book 1 and so far it's fluid but I'm not that into it yet, I hope I'm gonna like Book 2 better! My favorite parts were the ones with Nick in it, I think King does an amazing job at describing him and what he lives and feels!
Madeleine wrote: "I just finished Book 1 and so far it's fluid but I'm not that into it yet, I hope I'm gonna like Book 2 better! My favorite parts were the ones with Nick in it, I think King does an amazing job at ..."I think it's crazy how King is so good at "getting in the head" of someone not like him. I mean he writes terrific female character POVs, a deaf/mute, and dogs to name a few. He is none of those things and yet it feels very, very genuine.
Kandice, I completely agree!! It's amazing, especially the way he gets into children's heads! I hope Nick won't die soon haha, since it's my first read I have no clue what's going to happen! I think in Book 1 I enjoyed as well the parts when he talks about random people and how they die! Oh and I was going to forget a very important thing that I loved as well, the few parts with Randall Flagg!! can't wait to read more of him!
Oh Madeleine I envy you the first time reading this book. IU am guessing you are reading the unabridged version as you mentioned how he talks about how random people die. Randall FLagg you will see him again. I look forward to reading your thoughts on this book as it is one of may favorites of SK I only have 50 plus favorites of his LOL yes, all bar one of his books are a favorites of mine.
RF is the ultimate, and omnipresent, bad-guy in King's work. I find him fascinating and so do most of King's fans.
haha mrbooks I see pretty much all of King's books are favorites of yours ;) My first was IT and it's my favorite so far! I was hooked from the first page! The Long Walk is one of my favs as well! And yes, I am reading the complete and uncut edition in paperback, so it kinda looks like a dictionary! I will share my thoughts as I go further in the book, and I am sure that I will appreciate it more!
Kandice, I can't wait to read The DT series, I think RF is a big part of it, right? I have all the books on my shelves, but I can't read them quite yet because I am away from my country for a few months.
Karen B. wrote: "Some good points Nick. I had forgotten how strong Larry's mother is because she is only in a small part of Book I. Perhaps critics meant there was no strong presence of women. Maybe too it was the ..."Maybe the critics mean that women don't control or have a powerful effect on the story the way they do in some of King's other books or say, Swan Song.
The character that I most like to read about is Larry. I don't know why. He is a jerk but interesting. I think Stu is the strongest character but I can't stop thinking of when the next chapter with Larry on it will be coming up. For some reason I feel sorry for Trashcan man.
Woke up with a fever and thought "Oh no...it's happening"
James wrote: "The character that I most like to read about is Larry. I don't know why. He is a jerk but interesting. I think Stu is the strongest character but I can't stop thinking of when the next chapter with..."Larry is one of my favorites as well. (view spoiler)
I hate to say it in the first part of the book Larry gets on my nerves, he is such a whining little boy that really needs to grow up.
mrbooks, I too, find Larry annoying in the first part of the book. One of the reasons I like his character though is because he grows later on.
I know I didn't want to say to much LOL as I have read the book many times
Personally, I like Nick, maybe the most likable character in the whole book, but then... you know....
Good point about Larry's mom, Nick. I appreciate that she sees Larry for who he is and can be frank with him about that. It's important for people to be aware of and comfortable with both their strengths and weaknesses and (view spoiler).There's a difference, though, between characters like Alice and Vic in NOS4A2. The authors are writing at different points in time with different understanding about feminism, mental health, technology, economics, etc. and that's apparent in how their female characters are portrayed.
Stu & Nick are my favorites at this point.
(view spoiler)[I thought the moment between Frannie and her father really showed the love between them. Her mother was awful to her.
I also thought it was interesting that Frannie was hinting that if her mother died that it would be at least partly her fault. Then she started thinking that responsibility was like pie and she would have to eat her piece. This reminds me of "Thinner". I also thought that King would expound upon her guilt or at least dismiss it but so far he hasn't revisited Frannie's guilt at all.
Responsibility is again discussed in Atlanta when Stu finally gets some answers. The exact quote from Deitz is "On this one the responsibility spreads in so many directions that it's invisible. It was an accident. It could have happened in any number of ways."
We have Frannie on one hand feeling the responsibility for something that is in no way her fault and then you have Deitz who I feel is at least a little responsible but is trying to explain it away as an accident.
(hide spoiler)]