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The Sympathizer
BOOK OF THE MONTH
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ARCHIVE - JUNE 2017 - THE SYMPATHIZER - DISCUSSION THREAD
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"Whatever people say about the General today, I can only testify that he was a sincere man who believed in everything he said, even if it was a lie, which makes him not so different from most."
Discussion Questions:
1. The General cared about his staff and servants - and he was sad to say goodbye. What kind of a man was the General?
2. Does the author believe that everyone lies to themselves? Sincerely lies???
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Katyusha rocket launcher
The Katyusha multiple rocket launcher (Russian: Катю́ша; IPA: [kɐˈtʲuʂə] is a type of rocket artillery first built and fielded by the Soviet Union in World War II. Multiple rocket launchers such as these deliver explosives to a target area more quickly than conventional artillery, but with lower accuracy and requiring a longer time to reload. They are fragile compared to artillery guns, but are inexpensive, easy to produce, and usable on any chassis. The Katyushas of World War II, the first self-propelled artillery mass-produced by the Soviet Union, were usually mounted on ordinary trucks. This mobility gave the Katyusha, and other self-propelled artillery, another advantage: being able to deliver a large blow all at once, and then move before being located and attacked with counter-battery fire.
Katyusha weapons of World War II included the BM-13 launcher, light BM-8, and heavy BM-31. Today, the nickname is also applied to newer truck-mounted post-Soviet – in addition to non-Soviet – multiple rocket launchers, notably the common BM-21 and its derivatives
Remainder of article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyush...
Source: Wikipedia
Interesting personal account on the bribes:
http://fallofsaigon.org/orig/lastto.htm
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Multiple Choice Questions
1. Where have the narrator and Bon landed in the beginning of Chapter 2?
(a) Laos.
(b) Guam.
(c) Cambodia.
(d) The Philippines.
2. What word from Chapter 4 refers to a straight, close-fitting silk dress with a high neck?
(a) Ao dai.
(b) Cheongsam.
(c) Hantyu.
(d) Qípáo.
3. Where does the Department Chair say he met his wife in Chapter 4?
(a) Taiwan.
(b) Vietnam.
(c) Laos.
(d) Japan.
4. What does the narrator brush over the letters from his aunt in order to see the hidden messages in Chapter 4?
(a) Salt water.
(b) Sugar water.
(c) Milk.
(d) Iodine.
5. On what day of the week does the General's store opening occur in Chapter 5?
(a) Thursday.
(b) Wednesday.
(c) Saturday.
(d) Friday.
6. What is Ms. Mori's first name?
(a) Claudia.
(b) Sarah.
(c) Sophia.
(d) Violet.
7. What Founding Father does the narrator describe having said that an older mistress is a wonderful thing in Chapter 5?
(a) John Adams.
(b) Alexander Hamilton.
(c) Thomas Jefferson.
(d) Benjamin Franklin.
8. The author writes in Chapter 5, "Under Asian communism, everything but" what "is free"?
(a) "Politics."
(b) "Life."
(c) "Sex."
(d) "Death."
9. To what religion does Bon ascribe?
(a) Buddhism.
(b) Catholicism.
(c) Islam.
(d) Hinduism.
10. Who has the General enlisted to help the narrator in killing the major in Chapter 5?
(a) Bon.
(b) Sonny.
(c) Claude.
(d) Madame.
11. The narrator writes to the Commandant in Chapter 7, "We're revolutionaries, and revolutionaries can never be" what?
(a) "Innocent."
(b) "Betrayed."
(c) "Killed."
(d) "Honest."
12. Where does the narrator describe attending a wedding in Chapter 7?
(a) San Francisco.
(b) Westminster.
(c) San Diego.
(d) New York.
13. What kind of traditional dress does the narrator describe Lana having worn as a girl in Chapter 7?
(a) A cheongsam.
(b) A zhongshan.
(c) A tangzhuang.
(d) An ao dai.
14. What district does the Congressman represent?
(a) Orange County.
(b) Trinity County.
(c) Kings County.
(d) Siskiyou County.
15. Where does the narrator take the General and Madame to the Congressman's house for dinner in Chapter 7?
(a) San Clementine.
(b) Newport Beach.
(c) Santa Ana.
(d) Huntington Beach.
16. Madame exclaims in Chapter 7, "The worst thing about living in America is" what?
(a) "The racism."
(b) "The corruption."
(c) "The culture."
(d) "The people."
17. What is the name of the Congressman's wife?
(a) Sarah.
(b) Miranda.
(c) Rita.
(d) Lena.
18. What is the name of the film that the narrator is to advise about?
(a) Apocalypse Now.
(b) Plattoon.
(c) The Hamlet.
(d) Yesterday.
19. When did the narrator's family flee to the South after living in a northern hamlet?
(a) 1972.
(b) 1954.
(c) 1959.
(d) 1962.
20. What is the name of the movie director's assistant?
(a) Linh.
(b) Violet.
(c) Lana.
(d) Asia.
21. What film of the Auteur's is described in Chapter 8 as being "about the failure of the American Dream"?
(a) The Thin Red Line.
(b) Hard Knock.
(c) Apocalpyse Now.
(d) Venice Beach.
22. What is the name of the Auteur's gardener?
(a) Sonny.
(b) Jason.
(c) Danny Boy.
(d) Jose.
23. What infamous Nazi does the author describe in Chapter 8?
(a) Wilhelm Frick.
(b) Frank Hans.
(c) Adolf Hitler.
(d) Joseph Goebbels.
24. What food does Madame offer to the narrator when he visits in Chapter 8?
(a) Bahn mi.
(b) Bún bò Huế.
(c) Pho.
(d) Spring rolls
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1. B
2. B
3. A
4. D
5. D
6. C
7. D
8. C
9. B
10. A
11. A
12. B
13. D
14. A
15. D
16. B
17. C
18. C
19. B
20. B
21. D
22. D
23. D
24. C
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Fall of Saigon Bittersweet For Vietnamese Refugee
Click on the video and full screen - it will fill your computer screen.
Link: http://www.kpbs.org/news/2010/apr/29/...
Source: KPBS.org News
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By the way, I have found all of the above in this novel. The style of writing is excellent. The author reminds me a bit like Cormac McCarthy but still has a way to go - Cormac made every word count - this author is excellent but a bit more flowery and expansive - so the living master still reigns. I am not so sure about the integration of some rather sordid details to tell the story but then again it is a novel and the author therefore has poetic license. Personally I think that this author was striving to be more like Graham Greene.
Graham Greene
Cormac McCarthy
Thanks for the mail and setting this up. I wasn't receiving any notifications from this thread.
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There are two boxes which you can check at the bottom of the thread if you scroll down - one says add to my update feed and in terms of privacy concerns that is up to each person but the second one is notify me when people reply - that is the one that needs to be checked if you want to keep up with the thread and the postings. Every person should pick and choose what they want to know about - but what is odd is that sometimes even if you check the specific box you do not get a notification - that is what I am hearing from some.
Add to my Update Feed *
Notify me when people reply *
Bentley wrote: "Introduction and Let us Get Started:Folks please introduce yourself and let us know why this book interested you and what you hope to get from reading it?
Have any of you had first hand experien..."
Am Shalini, from India. Interested in knowing the world history, chiefly via semi fiction literature. Interested in this one, because I have only come across Vietnam war via other books which mention it in the passing, and am interested to know the whats and whereofs...
So far, haven't had much exposure to Vietnam, its culture or its history. Planning to make inroads via this book.
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There are basically 5 basic themes and motifs in the book and the Narrator wrestles with all five as do many of the characters.
As you read the book, post when you find quotes and examples of these basic themes. Themes are always a good springboard for discussion.
These are the five:
a) Betrayal
b) Sympathy
c) Religion
d) Duality
e) East vs West
Sources: Wikipedia, The Sympathizer, Bookrags
Hello Everyone, I am Michael and currently live in East Central Alberta Canada. However, I grew up in Montana. I started high school in 1978, but I remember newsreels and reports from Vietnam. Both of my older brothers, brother-in-law were drafted during the war but served in Germany as there was concern that the Russians would use the "distraction" of Vietnam as an opportunity to attack in Europe.We had a cousin that actually served in Vietnam. At the time he was not married and would actually trade point on patrol with those that were married. He came home pretty messed up and spent many nights talking to my mom who was the aunt everyone came to for advise and a listening ear.
I remember the evacuation from Saigon in the sense that I wanted to watch on TV and got sent to bed. Snuck to the end of the hallway and watched anyway.
One of the boys from our home town that grew up with my brothers died of cancer a few years after the war. He was Air Force and basically the cancer was a result of working with agent orange.
I remember being in the first class that had to register for the draft during the Reagan years. We were involved in Lebanon and El Salvadore. I remember a news cast when Marines landed in Beirut to guard the airport. They were landed there from landing craft. There was a gunnery sergeant that I remember saying this is exactly how I landed at Da Nang in '65. This made draft registration pretty real in my mind. They never reinstated the draft (so far) but it was eye opening. That is enough for now.
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Agent Orange - remember hearing about that situation which was horrendous for those who were exposed to it.
You have some vivid memories of this time period and I think you will have a lot to share. This is a powerful book which will evoke all sorts of reactions - pro and con, a real roller coaster.
Thank you for the questions in message 54 Bentley, I honestly received an "A" (smiling) but I only completed those pertaining to chapters 1-5. Okay, now moving on. I'm listening to this book and the narration is excellent even with a few minor faux pas. Admittedly I was a bit confused with the plane departure from Saigon but after listening again it made sense (I was at a critical point in the making of lemon curd at about the same time as a pertinent detail was unfolding in the story). The loss of Link and Duc was heartbreaking and one can hear the pain of that in The Narrator's (TN) thoughts.
In one way I'm surprised at the animosity toward Americans but it's only my ignorance that creates the surprise; we do tend to live in our own little bubbles. I believe the General actually is concerned about those closest to him that are being left behind. I'm not sure he believes his lie but sometimes when we only have hope left, then the lie transforms into hope. Hmmm, I will have to think of a better way to convey my thoughts on this.
I wonder if the General really knows TN is a spy and is offering him the opportunity to come clean. Being from a law enforcement family I can't imagine that with the details the narrator gives regarding his anxiety (loved the hamster reference) the General didn't pick up on it.
The Professor is a pompous you know what though unfortunately resembles a majority of the population. I've enjoyed the thought process and patience of both TN and Sophia when dealing with him. Hearing the perspective through TN's eyes is actually quite a learning experience and appreciated.
The sexual scenes in chapter 5 while a bit over the top make sense. It's intended to...I'm not sure shock is the right word but maybe show us or relieve us of our own prudish feelings. He's overcome the societal stigma and wishes his country to evolve also. I'm not sure I wrote that very well but I hope you are able to understand what I mean.
It's late and I'm ready to fall asleep and refresh. Oh, the soldiers at the airport and message 57.....well I better leave those for another day as I'm just too tired to articulate my thoughts.
I thought this quote on page 98 was very interested and worth a little further thought..."[98] Ever since the first caveman discovered fire and decided that the ones still living in darkness were benighted, it’s been civilization against barbarism…with every age having its own barbarians."
I was drawn to this book as I has just finished the non-fiction book Perfect Spy about the North Vietnamspy spy Pham Xuan An. His experience, covering the 60s and 70s has similarities with this authors. Has anyone else read it? book:Perfect Spy|210091] by Larry BermanCrossing my fingers that this first ever post works...
Hello my name is Kieran, and I picked this book up based on the advice of a small bookstore in my hometown that never fails to give great recommendations. Never heard of it or knew anything about it, but the topic and point of view really intrigues me. I live in Brooklyn, NY but grew up in a small town in Massachusetts and went to college in Texas. So views about Vietnam and the U.S. involvement there varied greatly amongst those around me. I was born in 1978, so my experience of the war was that of the fractured response to it years after we left. I vaguely remember the uproar over the memorial wall, but mostly I recall a catharsis through books and movies I read and watched from the 80s. Nobody talked about it except a handful of vets who came to our school. What NOBODY talked about was the Vietnamese. At least to us kids. I learned a little from Vietnamese I've met who escaped to the States, but these were anecdotal stories so I don't know about the experiences at large, or the viewpoints/experiences of those from Vietnam.
I believe the war that Eisenhower and Kennedy joined was a different one that Johnson waged. I believe our involvement was noble in concept but a mistake in practice. But there was no way we could have known at the time, and that this does nothing to diminish the sacrifice of our soldiers. I am happy Vietnam has discovered peace after being the proving grounds for bigger nations for centuries.
I hope to get some kind of insight from this book. Not so much in facts but more mindset, experience and "vibe" from a completely different perspective. Also looking forward to reading others thoughts as I catch up on the reading.
Hi, I'm sorry I haven't introduced myself. I recently became active on Goodreads again after preoccupation with a new demanding job. I'd forgotten the protocols for the History Book Club.My stepfather is retired U.S. Air Force. My mom was a single mom with me when she met him. Together, they have my 2 half-sisters and 1 half-brother. They had some interesting stories including how the Air Force kept on "losing" my stepfather's paperwork to bring his Vietnamese family to America. Finally, he waited outside each authority's door until the paper's signed, bribing them with liquor. As a last dig, they tried to have us on different flights, family on one and he on another. He adamantly refused and managed to get us all on the same flight. I understand better that the abandoned Amerasian situation may not be the father's fault.
I'm Americanized but am in the gray area of the Vietnam situation. I have Vietnamese friends with their own sides to the story yet mostly associated with Americans in the work place and as friends. I can't relate totally to either sides yet can understand better than either sides.
I'm scheduled for surgery this week and have work to wrap up. I was not going to participate in any more book reads until afterwards. I read this book and couldn't pass it up. Since the read goes through July 15, I'll have to come back after the surgery and refreshing my memory.
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Come back and post but only post things that are from Chapters 1 - 6 or in this week's assignment from Chapters 7 through 12 until we get to that week's assignment - we are glad to have you here.
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There is a lot of ground to cover so in advance I am going to put up the Chapter Overviews and Summaries for next week early:
Chapter Overviews and Summaries:
Chapter Seven:
Chapter Seven begins with the narrator admitting to the Commandant that the major's death is troubling. There is a wedding and Ms. Mori attends. The General's daughter Lana is one of the singers. The groom's father is referred to as Clark Gable because of his mustache. The Congressman praises the Vietnamese and talks to the narrator about his causes and the narrator reads his script.
Chapter Eight:
Chapter 8 begins with the narrator summarizing the movie script. The narrator arrives at the Auteur's house who tells the narrator that he is the first Vietnamese he has ever met and that he has researched Vietnam by reading Buttinger and Fitzgerald. The General shows the narrator articles about the major's funeral and wedding.
Chapter Nine:
In Chapter 9, Violet calls the narrator; Auteur reconsidered his advice and respects the narrator for standing up to him; refugees who are in the Philippines will be used as extras. The narrator accepts the movie position and goes to a refugee camp to recruit extras and experiences homesickness.
Chapter Ten:
Chapter 10 begins with Auteur arriving and throwing himself a welcome party. The non-combat scenes of the movie are shot. The narrator discusses the fate of the one black character and other scenes are completed.
Chapter Eleven:
In Chapter 11 - the narrator says that the movie seems like propaganda and is injured in one of the scenes. The narrator remembers an interrogation and had written a confession damaging the Watchman.
Chapter Twelve:
Chapter 12 finds the narrator flying back to America without having been invited back to the movie set. Madame and the General have opened a restaurant to try to fund a revolution with a group of veterans. The narrator discusses his time in the Philippines. The narrator visits Ms. Mori; her cat hates the narrator.
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Amazing posts, Bentley. Can't wait until I'm able to review them.
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Thank you Aloha
I like the way the author handles the quotes by offering one then a bit of narrative ensues and then he gives his interpretation. Message 57. I see the Asian language overall as flowery and expansive; words, especially names of children have a richer meaning than American words. Whether true or not I read on Quora a post from a Thi H. Nguyen that "Politically, modern Vietnam defines itself fiercely and independently of China, but politics can't change culture, history, or genes and the fact is that Chinese fibers are woven deeply and indelibly into the fabric of Vietnam." So in that vein I offer this example since I only know extremely small snippets of a few other languages.... my friend whose American name is Jade has a lovely Chinese name (I can't even begin to write or pronounce it) which has a meaning something similar to "the soft wind rustles the leaves of the mountain trees to a melody of peace."
I always believed that because the Asian language is ancient and the elders portrayed as thoughtful and patient when speaking as opposed to our modern hurry, scurry and wait in frustration, they created meanings to words that were not just beautiful but memorable in order to teach lasting lessons. Just my thoughts out loud.
The American soldiers at the airport before TN left Saigon: I didn't understand why the soldiers wanted a fight with the Vietnamese men (other than to prove masculinity...which may still be true) until I heard what TN had to say at the filming in the Philippines and then it made sense.
Message 66: Michael I found that interesting also.
Message 62: Bentley, I'm still trying to figure out who TN is sympathizing for. Yes, in one way it's obvious and he staunchly self-identifies as communist but in another he seems lost. Is it because he shot the Major, his love of his mother, his time in America has changed him? Oh, I know these will likely be answered further on in the book but it has me wondering.
If the author is describing the movie I think he is.....it was horrible. Someone said I should watch it so I did but it left me sick and with a lot of unanswered questions. I will gladly accept Nguyen's take on it.
Off to watch some more of the videos. I am enjoying this book immensely but I feel it more real than fiction....I don't consider myself gullible but it just has an authenticity that I don't expect to find in a novel. Both the story and the narration of the audio version are very easy to become enveloped into unlike May's BOM.
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I'm listening to this book and ..."
Hello Rose -
Glad you did as well as you did on the quiz. I agree with you - I too thought it was very confusing at the beginning - I can imagine that listening to the audio which would just march on by the details - would make it even more so. Remember the author has made it clear that the narrator is not him (smile). However the experiences are historically accurate and he in fact did take part in the evacuation as a young child with his parents.
To tell you the truth I was quite unprepared for the level of detail myself in some of the segments. I wondered if it was really necessary but the sexual industry was very much alive while the GI's were there and as unfortunate as that fact is.
I agree with you about the Professor.
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"[98] Ever since the first caveman discovered fire and decided that the ones still living in darkness were..."
How true that quote is - it is remarkable isn't it how every decade finds new ones to take the spots of predecessors.
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Hello Margaret - welcome to the discussion and the conversation - when citing outside books which are not the ones that we are discussing - please add the book cover, the author's photo and the author's link. Let me help you by showing you an example. In the case of the book you mentioned - there is no author's photo - so I simply added (no photo) in parentheses at the end.
by Larry Berman (no photo)
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Welcome Kieran - we are delighted to have you join us. I delayed responding to give folks ample time to post without getting in the way of the posters. You are in the Northeast in my neck of the woods.
Vietnam was a difficult war that no politician or president seemed to want to own. LBJ - I think - tried in his own way - but soon got more mired in the abyss when he did not listen to those around him. I think he was also tormented about the decisions he made that caused the deaths of young Americans.
He said to Lady Bird - "I can't get out, I can't finish it with what I have got. So what the hell do I do?"
Article from the University of Virginia - Miller Center - Johnson on Foreign Affairs:
Link: https://millercenter.org/president/lb...
Remember though - it was Eisenhower who got us into Vietnam. There were five (5) presidents involved with Viet Nam. See below.
Link: http://thevietnamwar.info/us-presiden...
I think what makes this book interesting and notable (in addition to being very well written) is the fact that this presents a "different narrative" from the perspective of a conflicted spy who presents the "Vietnamese" view of the war. I think that is quite powerful and unique.
I do not think that the author could have done a better job by going the non fiction route. Having these views being presented by a "fictional" protagonist - makes the Vietnamese narrative more palatable and accepting by the public. The readers get immersed in the story and then research the facts about the war itself.
As moderator - we want to focus on the book as it is - but also uncover the "messages" within. At the same time - we want to examine the historical backdrop of the novel in terms of the Vietnam War itself which is a fascinating topic not only in terms of the war - but also the time period in American history which was one of great upheaval. To make matters worse - the war veterans were so poorly treated when they returned. It was almost like those veterans who had made the ultimate sacrifice were a reminder of a war and conflict which the country did not win - and not because of the bravery of the soldiers but because of the war policies of the presidents and upper leadership echelons.
Also, our military was not well versed on jungle warfare. And the Vietnamese generals as one of them categorized himself - were the "professors of the jungle". The military was not prepared for these conditions. At least not well.
Sources: The Vietnam War site, University of Virginia - Miller Center
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My step..."
Aloha - I did not realize your ancestry - that is very interesting for input in terms of the narrative itself. Additionally I want to wish you all of the best for whatever is upcoming and we will see you back in the fold afterwards. The threads are always open and we are always here to help you.
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The narrator goes between two worlds - the Communist one and the South Vietnamese one. He has friends who he cherished that belong to both. Remember even when he is writing his confession he has sympathy for himself - or for the man who has had to make these decisions and had to do things that he finds difficult to forgive. He knows he had no choice in order to hide his identity but he still feels guilty but also sympathetic with his position. That same is true of the general - he really likes the general but he is forced to do things on behalf of the general that he knows are wrong but he has to do them in order to cover his identify. He feels bad for the people he is involved with and has sympathy for their plights too. That is why he is so conflicted as he explains in the first paragraph.
You are correct about the author drawing you into the story and it is very real because the historical events associated with the novel are real and stark.
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Hi, I'm Victor and I'm from Romania. I have had no contact with Vietnam beside being born and raised, up to 8 years old in 1989, into a [hardcore] communist country (as opposed to Poland or other east European countries which were of the "softer" variety of communism) and so I understand very well, now, living in a profoundly corrupt capitalist country, the two minds the author speaks about. It's not out of sympathy that he picks both of the mindsets but out of defeat
Welcome Victor from Romania. I think you know first hand the conflicted psyche and mindset of the narrator. You say that you think that he is not sympathetic. That he picks both mindsets out of defeat. I think he is caught in the web of his own deceit and finds himself in a place where he can see both sides of the arguments and he likes people on both sides but to preserve his own life - he now is in a position where he has to lie and do things that he knows are wrong to people who he knows are innocent just to protect his lies and his own life. So his life is one of betrayal and one of sympathy and he is deeply conflicted and morally challenged with his deceit, his betrayals and his conflicted duality. Yet through this he is adopting a couple of personas which he compartmentalizes so that he can successfully navigate his agenda.
Your having lived under such a regime must be like living with "Big Brother" - who can you trust if anyone.
FDR was very ill and was trying to win peace but he made some crucial strategic errors in dealing with Stalin which you are correct about - and if it were not for FDR - Churchill would not have gone along with these arrangements nor should have FDR.
In terms of perfectionism - I think we strive for excellence here and we have high standards. We do not allow self promotion or the use of our membership lists nor discussion about other groups by moderators of ancillary groups - we do ask moderators of other groups to contact the group leader - that would be me - before posting so that we could privately explain our expectations for fellow moderators. I am going to have to move your post to the glossary because it contains spoilers but I am delighted to have you here.
First, you are right we have high standards and we have therefore set the bar high - however we do have rules and guidelines that we expect everyone to adhere to.
Second, we do not allow our membership list to be used to enhance other groups and if we discover that you are sending invites for your group using our membership - I want to tell you in advance that is not allowed - we consider it spam and we never do this to anyone else or to any other group. So be forwarded - that is the quickest way to become one group short.
Third, our processes and procedures and our set up is our own and we do not share that at all.
Fourth, it might be best not to bite the hand that feeds you - the perfectionist moderator (smile). And finally you must abide by OUR rules when you are here. No spoilers on this thread. We have the glossary thread and you must learn how to do citations. I am adding the two books showing you how it is done here.
by
Barbara W. Tuchman
by
Aleksandr SolzhenitsynI do hope you continue to post but these are our expectations for group members who want to be in this group because of what we do here - rather than to plagiarize our processes to use elsewhere while insulting our volunteers. Maybe I misinterpreted your intentions but I think I read them loud and clear. Good luck with that because we do not allow it. I would advise you not to and if that is the only reason for your membership and brazen post (where you clearly said that you have zero interest in history) - then I would be remiss not to advise you to not be a member. I do not see how you plan to benefit this group or how you plan to contribute to our esprit de corps. Maybe you should leave now. I am not interested in hearing about your plans to be a "taker" rather than a "contributor". I am sort of taken aback at how your post began versus the ending. You totally violated our rules and guidelines here.
I have placed the segments of your post not in violation of the group's guidelines on the glossary thread. This thread and its posts are quite clear and you knew ahead of time you were breaking those guidelines which are posted before you join.
It is too bad - the first part of your post was very intriguing and thought provoking. I was very interested in hearing more from you when I read the first part. Also, I have no idea what corrupt capitalistic country you are living in now. But I trust you are not talking about this one. Good luck with your endeavors. Be mindful of what I have stated above.
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There are various settings in this novel (five major ones) - I will not go into much detail regarding these five major settings aside from pointing them out:
1. Vietnam - the novel begins and ends in Vietnam. I will not explain further but as you read you will discover that the narrator's belief system also morphs and changes and how he sees things differently after time passes - this is revealed in new ways.
2. America - The narrator is in America for a time and we will see him return to Vietnam. His mixed heritage makes him feel uneasy in America even though he liked living there just like he feels uneasy in Vietnam. His sense of inferiority over something that should not be an issue torments him in both places. He likes what America has to offer.
3. Department of Oriental Studies
The narrator is not impressed with this department at all. To the narrator the name of the department is a misnomer.
4. Philippine Movie Location
The narrator travels to the Philippines at the General's request to work on the set of a movie about the Vietnam war.
5. Reeducation Camp
When the narrator returns to Vietnam, he is captured and placed in a reeducation camp. I will not go into the details.
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At the wedding, there is an attendee - called simply “the Congressman”. He makes a speech and invites the General and Madame to his house the following week.
Discussion Questions:
1. What is your take on the Congressman? Why do you think the author included this segment? How are the Congressman’s political views described? What are his feelings about the Vietnam War and the Fall of Saigon? What does he relate in his speech at the wedding?
Regarding the Fulbright Hearings:
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulbrig...
Vietnam War Hearing - John Kerry - 1971
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucY7J...
Vietnam War: A Conversation with Henry Kissinger:
Conversation with Henry Kissinger Henry Kissinger talked about U.S. policy during the Vietnam War, his role, and the lessons learned from the conflict. He also responded to questions from the audience. Topics included America’s promises of support for the South Vietnamese and the Nixon administration’s pursuit of “peace with honor.” Former Secretary Kissinger called the evacuation of Saigon one of the saddest moments of his life, but insisted he had no regrets. The audience included many Vietnam War era figures including policymakers, veterans, and war protesters. Introductory remarks included President Johnson’s two daughters, Lynda Johnson Robb and Luci Baines Johnson, and a video clip of Secretary Kissinger at the signing of the peace treaty. Former Secretary Kissinger spoke with Mark Updegrove at “An Evening with the Honorable Henry Kissinger,” part of a three-day “Vietnam War Summit” held at the LBJ Presidential Library in Austin, Texas
Link: https://www.c-span.org/video/?408549-...
NOVEMBER 17, 1967
President Johnson - Vietnam War Press Conference
President Johnson briefed reporters and responded to questions on the Vietnam War. He responded to questions on force levels and increased tensions in Vietnam, and reflected on his four years in office. Courtesy of the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library.
Link: https://www.c-span.org/video/?409913-...
Moments in U.S. Diplomatic History
A Peace That Couldn’t Last – Negotiating the Paris Accords on Vietnam
Link: http://adst.org/2016/01/a-peace-that-...
Source: C-Span, The Sympathizer, Bookrags, Wikipedia, ADST
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ROBERT Duvall, as Colonel Bill Kilgore in “Apocalypse Now,” which was shot in the Philippines, delivered one of cinema’s most memorable lines: “I love the smell of napalm in the morning.”
Chapter 8 begins with the narrator summarizing the movie script which he is reviewing for a successful director referred to as the Auteur. The narrator attends a meeting with the Auteur and his assistant Violet which ends with a heated conflict and the narrator’s feeling completely dismissed.
Discussion Questions:
1. How is this chapter focused on the themes of East versus West, the lack of Asian representation in Hollywood, and racial bias. Did anyone else research the movie Apocalypse Now or have you viewed it? How many of you have viewed some other films on the Vietnam War, including films such as Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, etc. Do you have any criticisms of the films, or the representation of Vietnamese in the movies, or the ideologies and themes presented.
2. It would be interesting to hear from members who might have actually viewed any of these films in relationship to Chapter Eight in The Sympathizer. Did your viewpoint change after reading chapter eight?
3. Is there a difference between the Vietnam War films produced in America versus Europe?
4. How does Violet treat the narrator and why does her treatment cause him resentment? How are the themes of East versus West and racial bias explored in this chapter?
For those of you interested in films made about Viet Nam - here is a listing:
Link: Vietnam War in film - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam...
Source: The Sympathizer, Bookrags, Inquirer Entertainment, Wikipedia
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Guam Refugee Camp - Refugees in Guam. Anne Pham’s family and others were processed here before going to Fort Chaffee. Most of the 1975 refugees went to Guam first before going on to refugee camps in the United States
In Chapter 9, the Auteur reaches out again to the narrator and he finally agrees to work as a consultant on the film The Hamlet, which will shoot in the Philippines. The narrator reports to Man about his acceptance of the movie position and that the General has set up a nonprofit organization to raise money for a movement against the communists in Vietnam.
Discussion Topics:
1. We are introduced to Harry and the Vietnamese refugees. What does the narrator learn about conditions in Vietnam from the refugees?
2. What are the narrator’s main duties on the set? What does the narrator recall about his mother and her death? Why does this memory lead him to the cemetery at the film set? How does the narrator feel about his job with the refugees?
3. What does the narrator read from his tour book regarding the region as he flies in? How realistic is this depiction?
4. Where in relation to Manila is the film set? Who are the extras for the film?
Interesting article;
Vietnamese village in Philippines lives on
By Ronron Calunsod, Kyodo News
Posted at Jun 06 2014 07:36 PM
Link: http://news.abs-cbn.com/nation/region...
Another interesting article from 1996:
Philippines to let Vietnam refugees stay
STEPHEN VINES Hong Kong Wednesday 17 July 1996 23:02 BST
Link: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wor...
Another article:
Refugee remembers kindness of the Philippines
By Lisa FalkenbergNovember 26, 2013 Updated: November 26, 2013 11:36pm
Link: http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/...
Sources: ABS-CBN.com, The Sympathizer, Bookrags, Independent.co.uk. Houston Chronicle
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Thành (third from left in blue shirt) served in the South Vietnamese army; Thanh (middle, in hat, partially obscured), whose father was accidentally killed by the US army; Minh (second from right, back, partially obscured) moved to a refugee camp; Son (in helmet) tried to leave Vietnam illegally. Photograph: Bob Shirley
Chapter 10 focuses on the shooting of the Auteur’s film The Hamlet. The narrator works as a translator and liaison for the Vietnamese refugees who serve as extras and feels as though he’s been pulled into exploiting them. This chapter explores the themes of exploitation, art, and propaganda.
Discussion Questions:
1. Who or what in this chapter is being exploited? How?
2. Examine the characters of Thespian and the Idol in the novel. If you were to imagine these characters played by actors today, whom would you envision them as?
3. What are ways that propaganda has been used historically for political reasons? How has art been a part of propaganda to influence the masses? In the case of The Hamlet, what do you think the propaganda that the narrator fears is saying to the film’s audiences? How have films in your life influenced your political beliefs, cultural beliefs, or biases?
4. Why does Violet claim they could not find Vietnamese actors to play these speaking roles? Of what ethnicities are these actors? How does the narrator feel about his people being represented by different races?
Interesting article:
'Did they survive?': children of the Vietnam war, 50 years on
Just after this picture was taken, these boys were evacuated from their village. Nearly half a century later, would American veterans be able to find them?
Link: https://www.theguardian.com/global/20...
Another article:
Finding Vietnam's war children – in pictures
Link: https://www.theguardian.com/world/gal...
Sources: The Guardian, The Sympathizer, Bookrags,
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John McCain lies in a hospital bed in Hanoi, North Vietnam, after being taken prisoner of war. (FRANCIS CHALAIS)
In Chapter 11, the narrator receives a letter from Man assuring him that the reports of the conditions of the Vietnamese people are exaggerated and that he is not a collaborator and his mission with the movie is important. As the filming continues, the narrator has a major falling out with the Auteur and then is badly injured in a blast on the set.
Discussion Questions:
1. What are the internal conflicts that the narrator faces? How do these internal conflicts eventually manifest into the conflict between the Auteur and the narrator?
2. Why was the narrator interrogating the Watchman? What crime had the Watchman committed? What do you think is foreshadowed in the story about the Watchman? How did the narrator eventually “break” the Watchman? Why was this an effective method?
3. What is ironic about the Auteur’s vision of his film and the reality of it? How does the narrator employ verbal irony with the Auteur? How does irony apply in the narrator’s letters to Man? How does it apply to the narrator’s injury on the set?
Here is an interesting article about John McCain and what was happening to our soldiers who had been taken prisoners of war:
Link: https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...
Sources: US News and World Report, The Sympathizer, Bookrags
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Chapter 12 brings the narrator back to America. Bon meets him at the airport and he learns that Madame and the General have opened a restaurant to help fund the movement. The General says that almost everything is in place for the revolution and that a group of veterans is training every weekend and they'll pick the best from that group for the next step.
Discussion Questions:
1. Discuss the theme of sympathy as seen through the narrator’s relationship with the General and his wife in Chapter 12. What are symbols of sympathy (for the Republic and the Vietnamese people) that are seen in the General’s restaurant? How does the narrator sympathize with the dissatisfactions felt by the General and his wife?
2. How would you depict the setting of the General’s restaurant? What is notable about torture rooms being described by the narrator as always white?
3. Discuss the development of the theme of duality in this section of the text. How have the narrator’s descriptions of himself and his dual nature evolved? What are examples that he gives in this chapter of his own duality? How did the narrator’s mother attempt to build him up despite being frequently called a bastard or hybrid by other children?
4. Where has the General secured training grounds for troops in the U.S. and in Vietnam? What is the objective of training these troops?
Here is an interesting article on Why US Veterans are Returning to Vietnam:
Link: https://nissarhee.com/portfolio/opera...
Sources: The Sympathizer, Book Rags, Christian Science Monitor
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Bentley wrote: "I have no idea what corrupt capitalistic country you are living in now. But I trust you are not talking about this one."I'm not going to pretend to know how the American society looks like from afar so I was only referring to Romania and the vacuum that occurred after the fall of Communism where members of the two pillars, the Party and the Secret Service, became outstanding capitalists successfully mimicking a business oriented class while lacking any scruples and occupying the political spectrum for their own interests up to this day including. Such "nouveaux riches" types stand at the base of the disdain the lower classes from the former communist countries have for the western values, because they identify the "western values" with their "nouveaux riches". That disdain is than preyed upon by those in power through the classical pretenses of "foreign intervention", "our traditional values" and "national pride" to keep their power intact. I could go on on this subject but this would derail the discussion too much about nowadays.
But, unlike me, the author pretends he does and he paints a very unflattering picture of a country where people spend their life in a hamster wheel, bland and lacking perspective, while politicians and business men alike advance their own interests with disregard to both the lives of their fellow countrymen and much less the author's countrymen.
The Auteur is painted as such a business man, his monetary interests thinly veiled by his pretense for making Everlasting Art therefor the perceived irony in his title because of the dichotomy between his ambitions and the inhuman way he portraits his fellow North Vietnamese. I think the negotiation scene between him and the Auteur's lawyer delivers very well that idea.
As for the Watchman, I'd say that it paints one of the negative strengths the Americans had over the Communists: the ability to torture, to defeat the spirit of their enemies through a deeper understanding of human mind and motivations. I don't remember the character and the scene he was in in detail but I think this one refers the most to the introducing quote from Nietzsche. In my opinion, torture and laughter meet in the depths of the Abyss, to reference to another famous quote from him, and the author has the audacity to stare deep in the Abyss (to speak about foreshadowing further events).
As for the other matter I think “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” so enough said. My interest in History is fluctuating, sometimes it flares other times it's tiresome because the domain I favor, the history of communism, is an exhausting endeavor.
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Nietzsche is used by the author to foreshadow his thematic approach to the events and his characters. I agree.
As far as Romania - I cannot speak to what you have experienced or are experiencing - it does not sound pleasant. I personally have never even visited Romania - of course everyone who has ever read about Count Dracula (fictional) knows of Bran Castle and Transylvania. However, Romania appears to be a quite beautiful spot despite its politics. At least your country is part of NATO. It also looks like you have some strange political parties who even are trying to sack their own government. Of course our politics here are strange right now too.
Link: http://romaniatourism.com/press-trans...
Link: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/06...
Back to The Sympathizer:
The author does appear to be concerned about the fate of the Vietnamese people and the country he left behind.
You have posted some very interesting and thoughtful views about the fictional characters. I think your experience in reading this book is a fascinating one because you have lived through and experienced a communist government and its fall and from what you are saying - you seem to have the same players wearing different suits and pretending otherwise.
I just finished reading a book about democracies and the various struggles in a country becoming democratic after such a history (like Romania) - in some ways America was far easier - it was the first such experiment and there really was nothing in its place - most were fleeing the British for religious freedom and that is why they sailed in rickety small ships across an ocean they never had sailed on to an unknown existence in a country that had no infrastructure. Talk about a courageous spirit and how bad was their persecution that they would even attempt such a journey. But the pilgrims and the first settlers did for the most part. British rule extended to our country at first - but the settlers got rid of that after not being able to work things out with the English monarch. And the rest is history. But having said that - it was easier for our country to form its democracy than it would be for other long established countries who have suffered under communism or worse to do the same and become successful. I imagine that some countries are happy with what they have - that is what they know.
by
Condoleezza RiceNote: The book is very informative and very well written but a bit dry in segments. Still you might find it interesting since it has a global focus.
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I am borrowing the book from the library and it just came in today. I had to wait as there were others ahead of me requesting it. I will be reading the first six chapters tonight and getting caught up on those discussions over the next few days.Before reading the book I was wondering about his name, he seems to have included part of the country in his name. I have not researched this war much, but if the war ended in the 70s, then I was a young child. (I was born in the late '60s) I am hoping to learn more about this war, not only from reading this book but doing some outside research and checking out the provided discussions and videos.
Mod
Vietnam War - The Rolling Stones "Sympathy for the Devil"
Link: https://youtu.be/QdR7yieQdoo
1. Discuss the relevance of the title, The Sympathizer. Who do you think the author wants the reader to sympathize with? What are the different ways throughout the book that the author demonstrates sympathetic characters and situations? Sympathy is a major theme.
2. The novel opens with a quote from Friedrich Nietzsche: "Let us not become gloomy as soon as we hear the word 'torture': in this particular case there is plenty to offset and mitigate that word—even something to laugh at." How is this sentiment explored in The Sympathizer? Discuss this statement as it applies to the characters in the novel and Vietnam.
3. How has the refugee experience in America changed since the Vietnam War? Has it changed much or not at all? Or both? What adjustments has the United States made in how it deals with countries during and after war? What are the lessons learned from the Vietnam War and how have those lessons been applied to current wars?
4. What is the author saying about the effects of war on politics?
5. How are dreams used to discuss duality? What deeper meaning do the dreams represent for the Captain's already fractured psyche?
6. Why do you think the author included a supernatural element in The Sympathizer? How does the presence of ghosts change the protagonist? What do they represent to the narrator? Are the readers meant to take the presence of the ghosts literally?
7. Guilt is a theme throughout the novel. What is the role of guilt in the lives of the characters? Does it compel them to try and right past wrongs, or make them more culpable? Or both?
8. What is the function of sexuality in the novel? How are sexuality and the war intertwined, according to Nguyen? I know that some of you felt that some of the chapters were a bit over the top in this regard. But maybe the author was describing the sordid reality of "what was" at that time.
Gimme Shelter - Rolling Stones Vietnam
Link: https://youtu.be/sM8ix0siRVQ
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympath...
Interesting slide show on Prezi:
https://prezi.com/yp1ir8vlhmyr/sympat...
Vietnam Propaganda:
Link: https://www.tes.com/lessons/PKPV0Qndo...
Sources: The Sympathizer, Publisher, Youtube, Prezi, Tes Teach
Mod
What are we fighting for?
Pretty tough language and lyrics!!
Link: https://youtu.be/-7Y0ekr-3So
Come on all of you big strong men
Uncle Sam needs your help again
he's got himself in a terrible jam
way down yonder in Viet Nam so
put down your books and pick up a gun we're
gonna have a whole lotta fun
(CHORUS)
And it's one, two, three, what are we fighting for
don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam
And it's five, six, seven, open up the pearly gates
ain't no time to wonder why, whoopee we're all gonna die
Come on wall street don't be slow
why man this war is a go-go
there's plenty good money to be made by
supplying the army with the tools of its trade
let's hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
they drop it on the Viet Cong
Come on generals, let's move fast
your big chance has come at last
now you can go out and get those reds
cos the only good commie is the one that's dead and
you know that peace can only be won when we've
blown 'em all to kingdom come
Come on mothers throughout the land
pack your boys off to Viet Nam
come on fathers don't hesitate
send your sons off before it's too late
and you can be the first ones on your block
to have your boy come home in a box
Source: Youtube
Powerful propaganda: Vietnam journalists' role in war
Link: https://youtu.be/fBmDsYVxSOc
Chasing the Dragon: Return to Vietnam
Link: https://youtu.be/sYzICMWRo5g
Edwin Starr - War (Original Video - 1969)
Link: https://youtu.be/dQHUAJTZqF0 and Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01-2p...
Lyrics to War:
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, why'all
War, huh, good god
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing, listen to me
Oh, war, I despise
'Cause it means destruction of innocent lives
War means tears to thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
And lose their lives
I said, war, huh good god, why'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing say it again
War, whoa, lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing, listen to me
it ain't nothing but a heart-breaker
(War) friend only to the undertaker
Oh, war it's an enemy to all mankind
The point of war blows my mind
War has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants…
Sources: Youtube
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Week Three - June 19th - through June 25th - Chapters 13 - 19 - pages 212 - 323
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Chapter Overviews and Summaries
Mekong River
Chapter 13
As Chapter 13 begins Sonny asks the narrator what is in the bag he is carrying. Sonny tells the story of Ms. Mori's brother Abe who was put in prison for refusing to fight in the war. The narrator then tells Ms. Mori that Sonny used to support the revolution and asks Sonny why he didn't fight or at least return to help the people. The narrator tries to convince Bon not to return to Vietnam. Bon responds by saying he can't remain in America because it's a prison and he's disillusioned with what the Americans had promised the Vietnamese.
Chapter 14
In Chapter 14 - the narrator sees a copy of an article that Sonny
has written titled "Move On, War Over" lying on the General's desk.
The General asks if Sonny held such sympathies in college and the narrator implicates Sonny. The narrator and Bon go to a nightclub to hear Lana sing.
Chapter 15
In Chapter 15, the narrator courts Lana; Bon is curious how the general will take the relationship but the narrator states that they both know they will never marry. The narrator accompanies the General to the country club and Richard Hedd is in attendance; they were invited by the Congressman.
Chapter 16
At the beginning of Chapter 16 - the General tells the narrator he can go with the soldiers to the homeland if he can do what needs to be done, but he is vague about what his intentions are. In the meantime - Man has written and tells him to stay in America. Bon offers to carry out a deed for the narrator who knows he cannot allow his friend to do this on his behalf. The narrator confesses to Sonny and confronts him.
Chapter 17
Chapter 17 begins the next morning and Bon is helping soothe the narrator with liquor. They are leaving for Thailand to avoid consequences. Claude greets them at the plane. Instead of going to a club - they go to see The Hamlet. The admiral on the next day greets them as "uncle".
Chapter 18
As Chapter 18 begins, the narrator has been in Thailand for two weeks. The narrator and Bon form a reconnaissance team. The lieutenant gets himself in a terminal situation. At the Mekong River, the Commandant should be waiting - however they are attacked instead.
Chapter 19
At the beginning of Chapter 19 the narrator is face-to-face with the Commandant who questions the nature of the narrator's confession. They go to meet the Commissar who turns out to be Man.
Source(s): The Sympathizer, Bookrags
The History Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
1984 (other topics)The Raj Quartet (other topics)
Democracy: Stories from the Long Road to Freedom (other topics)
The Zimmermann Telegram (other topics)
The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956 (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
George Orwell (other topics)Paul Scott (other topics)
Condoleezza Rice (other topics)
Barbara W. Tuchman (other topics)
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (other topics)
More...
a) The Narrator - protagonist and the entire point of view of the story as seen and narrated by this character
b) Bon - loyal patriot of Republic of Viet Nam
c) Man/ The Commissar
d) The General - exceedingly loyal to the Republic of Viet Nam
e) Claude - American and CIA
f) Sofia Mori - Japanese American - narrator's love interest
g) Crapulent Major
h) Madame - the General's wife
i) Lana - the General's daughter - narrator likes her too
j) The Commandant - the person to whom the narrator is writing his confession
k) The Auteur - writer and director of the movie the narrator works on in the Philippines
l) Violet - Auteur's assistant
m) Link - Bon's wife
n) Duc - Bon's son
o) Richard Hedd - fictional character - author of Asian Communism and the Oriental Mode of Destruction, which the narrator and Man use as a cipher in the encoded messages they send one another.
p) Professor Hammer - The narrator's sponsor when he comes to America as a refugee and helps him to get a job in the Department of Oriental Studies.
q) The Marine Lieutenants - The narrator and Bon encounter three marine lieutenants in Vietnam at the beginning of the novel. They argue with the marines and the narrator pulls a gun on one when he calls the narrator a bastard.