The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
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The Last Chronicle of Barset
Trollope Project
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Last Chronicle of Barset: Chapters 1-6
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Lynnm wrote: And unfortunately - and so people don't get annoyed with me, I'll only say this once - Lily is back. I almost screamed when she wrote about her "wisdom." "I snorted quite loudly at that as well. Mind you, it might have been meant ironically.
Maybe...
I liked the start. Mr Crawley hasn't been as bad as I feared, in fact I feel rather sorry for him at this stage. I can both sympathise and empathise with his plight as I am just such a person to get so muddled with my personal affairs and forget where money came from. Nice to know that such vaguaries would have condemmed me as either a crook or insane back in those times!I really liked the section on Mrs Grantly and her realisation that her daughter isn't the person she wished she was. It's not a pleasant thought but Mrs Grantly wished for the honour and the glory and now she has realised that it's Dead Sea Fruit. Not so the Archdeacon who slips even lower in my estimation with his abject groveling before his daughters title and wealth. A wonderful example of Christian virtue from that pillar of the church!
As for Major Grantly, so far he seems alright. Pretty weak willed as seems to be the norm with Trollopes 'heroes' but decent enough.
Lynnm wrote: "..Does it look promising for Mr. Crawley?"No it really doesn't. It looks as though it was just a mistake but money being what it was back then, having to account for £20 would be like us picking up £500 from our living rooms which a visitor left and then trying to explain that you didn't know it was yours. Pretty difficult to do.
Nicola wrote: "Lynnm wrote: And unfortunately - and so people don't get annoyed with me, I'll only say this once - Lily is back. I almost screamed when she wrote about her "wisdom." "I snorted quite loudly at t..."
Ha! It could have been written ironically by Trollope. :-) But certainly Lily, as she wrote it, would have meant it.
Mod
Who is Emily Dunstable? I had thought Miss Dunstable/Mrs. Thorne was alone in the world. So all of a sudden she has a brother and nieces? Well, Trollope did change her age between books, so I suppose he could have given her relatives.
Lori wrote: "Who is Emily Dunstable? I had thought Miss Dunstable/Mrs. Thorne was alone in the world. So all of a sudden she has a brother and nieces? Well, Trollope did change her age between books, so I suppose he could have given her relatives. "Yes consistancy between books never seems to worry him. Personally I think he might very well forget (or not care to remember at least) - he seems rather a slap dash writer. He subtracts as well as adds though - The Crawleys had 4 children when last we saw them and now they only have three with no mention of a death. I think he did the same with the Grantleys as well - I seem to recall that they had 2 daughters at one point? Maybe not though.
Edit: Just checked - they had 5 children - 3 boys and 2 girls. Then they dropped down to 3 without a single mention of a funeral...
Their personalities too seem completely different to those that he endowed them with in later books. It's possible that they changed as they got older but I think it far more likely that Trollope completely ignored what he'd already said about them and put down what he wanted. It's surprising he even bothered to keep the names.
Mod
And that's an enormous pet peeve of mine!
In one book (Framley Parsonage, i believe), he did mention that the Grantlys had lost a daughter, but he's never accounted for the 3rd son.
Lori wrote: "In one book (Framley Parsonage, i believe), he did mention that the Grantlys had lost a daughter, ..."Oh, I didn't think it had been mentioned. Do you remember what was said about it? How she died?
Mod
Lori wrote: "I'm glad to have updates on all the previous novels' characters. The archdeacon is always entertaining whether he is the villain or kind-of-hero.Who is Emily Dunstable? I had thought Miss Dunstab..."
I was surprised by that as well. I thought Miss Dunstable was alone in the world. If she had a brother, wouldn't they share the business together?
Mod
Does anyone remember in which novel we were first introduced to the Grantly children? I want to go back and read about them when they were small, as I thought that was supposed to give us some idea of their characters.
Finally, while I'm not as annoyed with Lily as so many of you clearly are, I do hope she doesn't give advice to Grace! I'm also glad to hear that John Eames continues to thrive in the city.
Mod
Robin wrote: "For those of us who know Mr. Crawley, it's absolutely unthinkable that he could steal. He wouldn't even take a jar of jelly given to his children as a gift except when it was smuggled in. I was sur..."I think that bill might be yet another of Trollope's plot inconsistencies. I can't imagine a large butchers bill either.
Lynnm wrote: "Lori wrote: "I'm glad to have updates on all the previous novels' characters. The archdeacon is always entertaining whether he is the villain or kind-of-hero.Who is Emily Dunstable? I had thought..."
No she almost certainly wouldn't have been this great heiress - not if she had had a brother to inherit in her stead. I have been scratching my head over it. If Trollope has suddenly endowed 'Miss Dunstable' with at least one brother and a niece then that's pretty poor. I was thinking that I must have been misunderstanding the text somehow.
Nicola wrote: "Lori wrote: "Who is Emily Dunstable? I had thought Miss Dunstable/Mrs. Thorne was alone in the world. So all of a sudden she has a brother and nieces? Well, Trollope did change her age between book..."Re inconsistencies in Trollope, I tend to miss them myself but can admit they can be puzzling and a bit frustrating. I think AT was aware of it. Sadleir notes that in later years when Trollope was begged by a distinguished American (I wonder who?!) to write one more Barsetshire he said “I am nearly seventy years of age and cannot hope to do what you propose. Though I still go on writing, the new characters are much less troublesome than the old ones, and can be done without the infinite labour of reading back again and again my old works.” Hmmm in the case of Miss Dunstable I don’t think he did too much back reading.
Nicola wrote: "I really liked the section on Mrs Grantly and her realisation that her daughter isn't the person she wished she was."I got a tear in my eye when I read that Griselda doesn't want to see her grandad. I think that goes beyond coldness to cruelty.
Just think how eagerly this must have been received by Barsetshire fans of the day! This is my third time around and I’m still charmed to meet these old friends again And what a gripping start! No beating about the bush with bucolic descriptions, straight to the missing cheque! We – the faithful reader – know that it’s utterly impossible for Crawley to have pinched anything (as Robin points out he wouldn’t even take a jar of jelly for the kids when Mrs. Crawley was so very ill) and I think this is what makes this particular plot so exciting. Crawley is perhaps the most incorruptible character in the canon (and another reason I love Trollope so much, the pious can be so annoying at times and the corruptible so charming!)
SarahHannah wrote: "Nicola wrote: "I really liked the section on Mrs Grantly and her realisation that her daughter isn't the person she wished she was."I got a tear in my eye when I read that Griselda doesn't want to..."
Yes, that more than anything I would have thought, would have been a cross for her to bear. She had her faults but she has always been loving towards her father and to see him slighted in such a way...
Her father is such a 'good' man. And a decent one as well which is much rarer in this series. In fact, with the exception of Dr. Thorne, I think he is the only man who is both decent/virtuous and good/kind. If these books had been written by a woman I would have been sure that she was an inveterate man hater! There's such a shortage of non stupid/arrogant/weak willed/pompous/condescending/greedy or overly ambitious men.
SarahHannah wrote: "We – the faithful reader – know that it’s utterly impossible for Crawley to have pinched anything."I don't think he deliberately pinched it. I do think it very possible that he took it though; he was simply unaware that it wasn't his to take.
I have no idea how he would have done it but if that is what happened then the only thing I am sure of is that he didn't deliberately steal.
Nicola wrote: Her father is such a 'good' man. And a decent one as well which is much rarer in this series. In fact, with the exception of Dr. Thorne, I think he is the only man who is both decent/virtuous and good/kind. If these books had been written by a woman I would have been sure that she was an inveterate man hater! There's such a shortage of non stupid/arrogant/weak willed/pompous/condescending/greedy or overly ambitious men. .."That is such a good point! I hadn't thought about that before. I've been racking my brains and I can't think of any in terms of absolute goodness and decency (other than the examples you give) There's always something negative to counteract the positive attributes -- which I suppose does reflect life!
It appears that the Major Grantly/Grace Crawley love story will develop in the same manner as the Frank Gresham/ Mary Thorne love story in “Doctor Thorne” and the Lord Lufton/Lucy Robarts love story in “Framley Parsonage”. In both these books, the boy is of a higher social standing than the girl and his family is against the affair. It is the same in this book too and it will be interesting to see how the story develops.
Opposing aspects of Mr & Mrs Crawley’s characters are highlighted by Trollope: “Nothing in their poverty had been a shame to her. But to him every accident of their poverty was still and had ever been a living disgrace.”It also appears that Mr Crawley’s innocence or guilt will dominate the contents of the book.
The main characters of the five previous books are portrayed here, and as this book is “The Last Chronicle of Barset”, they will probably be finally dealt with and disposed of here.
Mod
The Cinderella story! I don't remember where I read this but there are something like 7 basic plots of romance. One is the Cinderella/Pretty Woman/Jane Eyre type where the man is rich and powerful and the woman isn't (though of course by the end Jane has come up in the world and Rochester is reduced.) Then there's the opposite, "the upstairs woman and the downstairs man" - Lady Chatterly's Lover or The African Queen, where the man is earthy or uncivilized and the woman is proper (to begin with) - this applies to many stories about cowboys or pirates. A couple others are Young Love and Tragic Love but I don't remember them all.
I suspect Mr. Soames! Although I'm not sure why because I don't remember him from the previous novels. Perhaps he's just a handy scape-goat, but, I think at the least, he misplaced the check and not at the C
Renee wrote: "I suspect Mr. Soames! Although I'm not sure why because I don't remember him from the previous novels. Perhaps he's just a handy scape-goat, but, I think at the least, he misplaced the check and no..."I had a small grudge against Mr Soames too but I realised it was just because I was thinking of The Forsyte Saga books :-)
I also felt that the start of this novel was more quick paced than some of the others in the series. Perhaps because we already have some background on the characters... But I'm already curious about how the threads laid out will unfold.
Lynnm wrote: "And unfortunately - and so people don't get annoyed with me, I'll only say this once - Lily is back.."Yep! Lily, the Grantleys, Griselda (being of the aristocracy she gets a separate mention from the rest of her family!), the Arabins, the Crawleys, the Proudies, the Walkers, Dr. and Mrs. Thorne, Lord Lufton, Emily Dunstable, even dear old Mr. Harding gets a mention.
Here we go!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAPWo...
Terrence wrote: "It appears that the Major Grantly/Grace Crawley love story will develop in the same manner as the Frank Gresham/ Mary Thorne love story in “Doctor Thorne” and the Lord Lufton/Lucy Robarts love stor..."But not as the Crosbie/Lily love story developed?
my comment has vanished! briefly, I agree with you, Lori, about Trollope's forgetting previous characters. if only he would sort it out! but he won't so I'll get on board with him or it will constantly niggle!!
Mod
I am hoping Mrs. Proudie finally gets her come-uppance in this one. The fact that she judges Mr. Crawley by his attire really says it all-no Christian charity in that one.
I like the comment Major Grantly made about his sister's intelligence--her lack of it. She married by cunning, and chose the perfect husband-Lord Dumbello. I can imagine their conversation-two nods as they pass each other.
Renee wrote: "I also felt that the start of this novel was more quick paced than some of the others in the series. Perhaps because we already have some background on the characters... But I'm already curious abo..."I've noticed that as well. For once he jumped straight into the story without a whole lot of scene setting.
I am a little behind everyone having only just started reading but agree with the comments about consistency in the characters. However, I am still enjoying reading Trollope as with or without inconsistencies the books are great fun.
As others noted, Trollope is so prolific that he can't remember all the details he has previously written. It is somewhat irritating, but his writing is so enjoyable that I forgive him. Sometimes I wonder what ever attracted Mrs. Crawley to marriage or the Dean to friendship with the human crab known as Mr. Crawley. He's hard to be with.
Brian wrote: "Sometimes I wonder what ever attracted Mrs. Crawley to marriage or the Dean to friendship with the human crab known as Mr. Crawley. He's hard to be with. "The point is that his troubles have changed him. If you read back in the previous book (Framley Parsonage I think) where he is first introduced it talks about him being full of hope and ready for hard work but that years of unrelenting poverty have ground him down.
Nicola, you are right, and I realize he was not as bad in his youth, and the years of poverty ground him down, but his basic stern nature is not attractive. My recollection was that Arabin was attracted by his hard working intelligence and strident integrity which overcame his lack of personal charms. however, even his integrity would be off-putting to most people, closer to self-righteousness. I pictured Arabin befriending him but being his only friend. I fail in trying to picture his wooing of Ms. Crawley.I think the change you describe is in degree, tipping toward the unpleasant, especially since one of his only arguably attractive features, his integrity, is being attacked. Depression is natural, and that is new.
Despite his deficiencies Mr. Crowley is held in high esteem by parishioners especially the bricklayers. Somehow I think Crawley is protecting somebody, at his expense.
Nicola wrote: "Lynnm wrote: "Lori wrote: "I'm glad to have updates on all the previous novels' characters. The archdeacon is always entertaining whether he is the villain or kind-of-hero.Who is Emily Dunstable?..."
I wondered that too. Google led me to the Trollope Society website, which says our original Miss Dunstable, now Miss Thorne, Is Martha. The new Miss Dunstable is her younger cousin Emily, who has some fortune as well.
Nicola wrote: "Robin wrote: "For those of us who know Mr. Crawley, it's absolutely unthinkable that he could steal. He wouldn't even take a jar of jelly given to his children as a gift except when it was smuggled..."I think that bill might be yet another of Trollope's plot inconsistencies. I can't imagine a large butchers bill either.
The butcher bill has been bugging me, I am glad you guys figured it out. Doesn't sound like the same guy at all.
We meet a lot of old friends: The Crawleys, the Grantlys, Lady Dumbello, the two Lady Luftons, the Proudies, etc. And hear about the Robarts.
We're getting to know Major Grantly a bit - he's aged quite a bit since we first met him.
And unfortunately - and so people don't get annoyed with me, I'll only say this once - Lily is back. I almost screamed when she wrote about her "wisdom."
One, what is Mr. Crawley accused of? What is Mrs. Crawley's defense of her husband? Does it look promising for Mr. Crawley?
Two, Major Henry Grantly likes Grace Crawley. Has he proposed marriage yet? What are the Grantly's issues with his choice? How does Lady Dumbello feel about the Henry's choice? How does Henry feel about the fact that his future father-in-law may be a convict, and will that affect whether or not he asks Grace to marry him?
Three, where is Grace Crawley living during these chapters? Describe the two Miss Prettymans. Why does Grace write to Lily? What is Lily's advice?