QP: Part Four: Ch 6: Chateaubriant: Satin and Scarlet

[Renee]

QP: Part Four: Ch 6: Chateaubriant: Satin and Scarlet

[Renee]

Gah! I got caught up in the story and now it's done. So much that I forgot! Which worked out to mean that it was like reading a whole new book. :D

[SamuraiKitty]

Hi Renee -
I always forget how many poignant moments there are in this book. This time around the one that stood out to me was the conversation Lymond has with the two guards while he was in jail where they talk about why a man leaves his mistress, and why a mistress leaves her lover. I've read these books so many times, and yet this time around that conversation struck me like it never had before. Or Margaret Erskine, waiting by the fire and keeping one promise but knowing she would never keep the other. And Liam O'Roe and the conversation he has with Lymond towards the end of the book about leadership. And again what Margaret said to O'Roe that was advice to both him and Lymond about words and consequences. Every interaction that Lymond has with young Queen Mary - so good and such a window into his character.
And the scene with Hughie and Liam O'Roe. And Archie and Betsy! "Betsy, ma doo! Betsy, my cabbage!" "Mother and daughter" I laugh every time.
These books are such treasures to me.

[Mary]

Agree totally with all those! And another favorite bit of mine: after the explosion, when Lymond is hauling the almost-drowned O'Liamroe back to shore, he was "crooning under his breath into O’LiamRoe’s blocked red ears." And after they get into the rowboat, he sings a song about dedicating a myrtle tree to OLR's glory. LOL! It's as if the extreme opposites of the wild and crazy Thady and the ice-cold reserved Vervassal Herald have merged back into the brilliant, inventive, joyful personality of Francis.

[Renee]

I really like that image, Mary. Nicely put.

[SamuraiKitty]

Hi Mary -
What a great observation about Lymond! And what a great scene too! I love that whole episode in the menagerie. (And the lead up to it.)

[Mary]

Thanks ladies. Some people don't like QP that much, because they say they don't like the characters of either Thady or the Herald. But I see it as a learning and growing process for Francis to decide what kind of man he wants to be, and to accept the role of leader that he seems destined to become. The real Francis combines the best features of both.

[SamuraiKitty]

Hi Mary -
I read on a "blog" once that the character of Lymond in this book reminded the blogger of Henry IV in the Shakespeare play as the character prince Hal, and that comparison caught my attention, because in both it really is about the person taking on the mantle of leadership; and "growing up". (My opinion only). And I always think I don't like QP as much as the other books until I re-read it; get caught up in the story, and am smacked in the face by how many scenes are just so wonderful, and how many conversations just take my breath away.

[Mary]

Never thought about the comparison with Prince Hal! Yes, very apt! I especially love Tom Hiddleston's portrayal of him. The scenes in the tavern with Falstaff always make me think of Lymond having fun at the Ostrich Inn! LOL!

[Renee]

I agree with you about the Henry plays. You literally seem to be watching Hal grow up and "put away childish things." I hadn't thought of a connection to Lymond but I definitely think it's a nice analogy. The Francis of GoK is brilliant and desperate, for all of his confidence and bravado. The Francis of QP is brilliant and brash, and fresh from thinking he had no future. I always find the last scene with Robin Stewart to be enormously moving.

[Judith]

Do you think he learned anything from Robin Stewart's suicide--and its setting? I think he suffered some pangs if conscience--maybe for not bringing out the best in Robin (and I think he knew he could have done)--
I always felt bad for Robin--(I have a brother with that name, so maybe that's it)--all that envy building up.

Oh well, he reached a high (pun intended) in the rooftop race--lived up to his gifts.

Judith

[Ah]

There's also that moment when Richard points out he has his whole life in front of him, and Lymond just says "For what?". Then Robin's suicide...
(view spoiler)[
and then he comes back in Disorderly Knights with a sense of purpose and leadership role
(hide spoiler)]

[SamuraiKitty]

I think Lymond learns a lot from Robin's suicide (About the power he has over people and also about not being so cavalier with people) - among other things. And I also believe that he feels the suicide very deeply, and responsibility/partial responsibility for it happening. (Hence putting his wrists through the glass window at the hut).
(view spoiler)[ And he is acting to my mind through most of this book just as some early twenties people do. It's about having fun (amidst the job), and not thinking about consequences. And I don't mean that to be insulting to anyone in their early twenties - that's just how I see Lymond at this point. He's in France to protect queen Mary, but he's also there to party and have fun too. And then he gets a "wake up call/reality check" because one has to decide at one point - does one stay a child or grow up (hide spoiler)]

[Renee]

Robin Stewart is such a brilliantly conceived character for this. We basically see O'Liam and Thady Boy through his eyes at the beginning. Then the race across the rooftops, wherever fall for him in his abandon, even as he falls for Thady/Lymmond. So that when it is revealed that he has been behind the attempts on the life of young Mary, we are ready to invest with Lymmond in giving him the chance to redeem himself. His suicide, then, becomes a tragedy for us as well as for Lymmond because we've invested so much and feel how desperately he wanted to be taken on by someone like Francis Crawford.

I've often wondered whether my opinion of Robin is colored initially by remembrance of Will Scott. I think they're very different in the end, but initially I may have been caegorizing them together unconsciously.

[Giki]

Finished at last! I don't know why it took me so long but glad I am done in time for DK. I enjoyed this so much more on the second read. I never felt sorry for Robin though, he repeatedly tried to murder a child, and was not especially sorry, he came good in the end only through his love of Lymond and his desire to emulate him in some way and lead a better life, I don't think he had the backbone to keep it up for very long. Nothing like Will in that respect.

[Renee]

No, not their personalities. The way they fall for Lymmond/Thady. I think I was tricked by DD into thinking Robin was Will-like initially. I suspect that DD played on that. On the expectation of Lymmond finding another rough-cut diamond to polish. Which made the reveal more surprising. It's brilliant manipulation of the reader.

But I see what you mean about backbone. Will rose to become something wonderful in his own right. Robin's skewed sense of self-worth would probably have excluded him from attaining that.

[Giki]

I think Will without Lymond would have found his own way eventually.

[[deleted user]]

I was so angry with Robin when it was revealed! I didn't think at all he could have tried something like that.

[Renee]

I agree. As long as his dad didn't kill him first. :)

[Giki]

Robin suffered from the all to common problem of thinking that the world owed him more than he was getting

[Renee]

Yes, but also with not knowing how to go about getting it. He can't be faulted for not trying hard enough.

[Judith]

Giki wrote: "Finished at last! I don't know why it took me so long but glad I am done in time for DK. I enjoyed this so much more on the second read. I never felt sorry for Robin though, he repeatedly tried to ..."

I, too, liked it better the second time...yes, Robin was not a trustworthy person, except in the roof race..I think he liked it, being trusted and being trustworthy, maybe for the first time.

[Judith]

Renee wrote: "No, not their personalities. The way they fall for Lymmond/Thady. I think I was tricked by DD into thinking Robin was Will-like initially. I suspect that DD played on that. On the expectation of Ly..."


Will had a much better start in life--good family, love--than Robin. Will was going to be OK even without Francis, I think, not so Robin.

[Judith]

Giki wrote: "I think Will without Lymond would have found his own way eventually."


Yes, me, too.

Judith