World, Writing, Wealth discussion
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Delphian
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May 2017 Group Read: Delphian #BOM-may-2017
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Would anyone like to volunteer as the discussion leader?
I can do it.I'm over 40% of the way through. Had a long train ride and a flight over the last couple of days.
My initial impressions:
- I'm not sure I've ever read a book written in 3rd person present tense. It threw me at first.
- I'm still not sure I fully understand Vincent. Critical information gets dropped randomly and makes you go, "Wait, when did that happen?"
- The plot so far is intriguing. It's plausible in that you wouldn't necessarily be surprised twenty years from now to hear that something like that was happening.
- Great descriptions of modern tradecraft. I'm not expert, but it's clear that extensive research was done and the author even shows some savvy clairvoyance regarding technological advancement.
- There's a lot of repetition. The same thoughts, facial expressions, and ideas are re-iterated frequently. I found that the pacing suffered as a result.
- There are a quite a few characters, but they are well-described and easy to distinguish. The Welsh characters are especially well done. The accents, manner, and vernacular are all there.
One question I have is about the use of "?". There are a good number of statements made by characters that end in "?". Is that intentional?
Kent wrote: "I can do it.I'm over 40% of the way through. Had a long train ride and a flight over the last couple of days.
My initial impressions:
- I'm not sure I've ever read a book written in 3rd person ..."
Thanks,Kent!
I meant, thanks Kent for being our discussion leader.
I've just begun reading, so hopefully by tomorrow I'll have something useful to contribute.
Tim wrote: "Hi Kent,I appreciate your comments. Reference the question marks - I do use them a lot, I suppose. I think we all make statements where we question what we're saying, either to our selves or invi..."
Hi Tim,
Thanks for the explanation. I'm curious to see if other people noticed it (before reading this comment, of course). :)
I do remember re-reading a few such statements and asking myself, "Is that a typo?" But then as I kept seeing them, I started to think something else was at play.
Now that you've explained the process, I'll read a bit more and see how the statement-questions go. If there's one that particularly sticks out, I'll let you know (if that something you'd like, of course).
I have to confess to struggling with this so far. Initial impressions:
The premise of the story, and the blurb, are intriguing.
Third person present tense: Present tense is hard to write, and I think it's even harder in third person. Present tense isn't my preferred tense, so I'm finding it a less involving read than I normally would.
Tim, how did you decide to write in third person present? It's quite an unusual choice.
I shall continue to read.
Leonie wrote: "I have to confess to struggling with this so far..."Agreed about the difficult writing in third person present.
Question for Tim:
What are your expectations regarding this discussion? Are you looking for constructive feedback on your writing?
Thanks!
I think my reaction to third person present was more about unfamiliarity than dislike. Once I got used to it, the story reads more smoothly. I definitely wouldn't recommend changing it. :)What I've appreciated most so far is the level of detail. You haven't taken a single shortcut, it seems. And Millie's character is well developed. Probably the best developed of all of the characters so far.
You mention Vincent being thoughtful as a change of pace. Interestingly, I find his thoughtfulness is when the pace picks up. It usually requires a decision and he processes risk so quickly that you can't help but get caught up in it. It's when he's actually doing things that the pace slows down.
That said, Vincent's "softer" side is getting a bit repetitive, especially with respect to the Thai girl at the beginning. A lot of references are made to that in the first half of the book and it never fails to bring a tear to Vincent's eye. This reaction just doesn't seem to fit with Vincent's character.
Full respect for being experimental. Now that I'm over halfway, things are starting to shape up nicely for the home stretch.
Who else besides Leonie and I are reading?
Now Leonie says she's having difficulty with it and I wonder if Kent has influenced Leonie with his comments?No, that's just me. It's been something that I've always struggled with as a reader. Just not my favourite tense, really. (You'll see that reflected in my review of Divergent and Allegiant, as just two examples.)
I suppose I asked why you used third/present because it's not a common choice for thrillers, but given that you've mentioned TV/Film, then it makes more sense, as scripts are usually written in third/present.
Kent wrote: "Who else besides Leonie and I are reading?"Sorry guys but my interest in thrillers for the BOM has waned somewhat, so I'm going to bow out this month.
However, I am following your incisive discussion on POV with great interest!
Just wanted to let everyone know that we can discuss any of the content up to and including chapter 15 without having to use spoiler tags.
I will FINALLY be starting this one tonight, as I have had to read a couple of unexpected books lately for reading challenges. I am looking forward to coming back to this thread! -Jen from Quebec :0)
Kent wrote: "Who else besides Leonie and I are reading?"I joined the party late last night. Had to finish up another book first but now I'm full steam ahead on this one.
Thanks for clarifying the third person present tense...I wasn't sure what the tense was. I write mostly present tense myself so that's not an issue for me; the third person will take some adjustment. But I'm with Tim...experiment with things! Why not?
And Tim, thanks for the clarification on the question marks. I had noticed them in the few pages I've read and wondered about why so many??? lol
Eldon wrote: "why so many???..."If most of them are then answered in the end, should be fine -:)
Alex G wrote: "Our fifth group read of 2017 is a thriller.Please join us in reading Tim Rees's
I would like to tell you a secret, but can you handle the truth? Th..."
Just came across this post. How do books get suggested?
I will pick up a copy of this soon!
Jennifer wrote: " ."Just came across this post. How do books get suggested?See:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
I should be posting a nomination thread around the 15th for the June group read.
Question for you Tim. Why Delphian as the title? Is there some significance to the word?
Alex G wrote: "Jennifer wrote: " ."Just came across this post. How do books get suggested?See:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/......"
Great, thank you so much!
Another question Tim. I'm roughly 10% in now and it's obvious that the tradecraft is well researched; it seems spot on to me but I honestly wouldn't really know if it wasn't.My question is how did you research this aspect of the novel?
One thing I've noticed throughout the book is an emphasis on breathing and lips in the dialogue tags. Is that a result of writing for TV/cinema?
Just wanted to take a moment to let everyone know that we can now discuss the entire book without using spoiler tags.It's been a very vibrant discussion.
Ok, now that we can discuss the entire book, a few questions for those reading:1) Did the author's portrayal of the pros and cons of vivisection shift your opinion on the subject?
2) Did anything in the story catch you off guard?
3) Could you relate to Vincent's and his group's motivation for taking on the British government?
4) Which character did you most enjoy?
A fascinating read overall. Good job Tim :)Here's my review on Goodreads:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I'm afraid I struggled with the book and almost gave up at ch.11. I too found the third person, present tense strange. It had the effect on me of likening it to listening to a commentary of a George Segal movie. This style, by default, in my opinion, makes characterisation difficult with no historical attachment or acecdotal behaviour. I found the presentation annoyingly poor; over use of apostrophes, baffling query marks, grammatical errors and many typos gave the impression it had never been proof-read and made for laboured reading. Some of the dialogue, especially the foul-mouthed Millie, was repetitive and seemed often to be contrived. I said I nearly gave up, but at the end of ch.11 the storyline improved with a clear objective and the writing improved with it to hold my attention. But I'm afraid I still haven't got past ch. 21. It's a pity because Tim is capable of writing a good novel, but I don't think this is it.
Tim, I'm sorry you have taken my honest review so badly and I'm sorry you have bought my book as a threat; there are twelve paperback versions available free, you could have had one and written comments all over it. In mitigation I have to tell you that I declined a request to put a review of Delphian on Amazon.
Just a comment, if I may, on reviews. My view of typos is you should not bother mentioning them, unless they are so prevalent as to be annoying. Nobody deliberately puts them there, but I feel every script should at least go through a spell-checker. This means there may be the occasional "funny" word - spelled correctly, but changed to something quite inappropriate. I would also hope that we do not get into reviewing somebody else's book for revenge for a perceived bad review.
Tim, my policy on reviewing is that if I really don't like the book, unless there is a stand-out reason to do otherwise, and I give clear reasons, I don't publish a review. I agree that if you don't like it because that is the sort of book you don't like, then you should not review it.As for grammar, my opinion is that I criticise it when the writing leads to ambiguities, and I outline what they are. I might also write that there is bad language there, because some people really don't like that, and the review should fairly warn such people. Similarly, you hold give a clue as to the presence of explicit sex, because the review should tell people who might dislike that that it is there.
We did touch on reviews somewhere and I suggested some sort of guide for BR to adopt as to how we analyse a book. 'Liking or Disliking' is not relevant and the star system often only reflects a subjective feeling without any reasoning. In this case I tried to use the guides I have suggested as a way of being usefully critical. If I had written a review I would have detailed my reasons for liking or disliking it but here, in house, I thought that a general overview was all that was required.I have no inclination to argue with the author about his book and I would suggest that this is counter-productive for an author to want this. But, regarding what I call 'presentation', as I have said before, I think this is a relevant comment because I read books that have not been duly processed prior to pushing that 'publish' button.
In the case of my own book; I had written it, rewritten many chapters or sentences and even rearranged them many times. I am a touch-typist and can usually rely on my typing ability. My wife read the book, twice, and she is very good at that sort of thing and yet, when I received my proof-copy from Createspace, I counted 147 typos and errors. I then published it twice more after proofing it electronically. Even now, there are probably one or two I have missed. But I did make the effort to present it as well as it should be presented.
I will leave other readers to assess whether or not my comments on Delphian were constructive.
When participants in a BoM group read engage in personal disputes, it absolutely discourages others from participating.With all due respect, I request that this line of discussion stop.
Instead of posts as to the personal motives of others (real or perceived) and the invocation of other actions outside of this thread, let us return to a discussion of the book itself.
Thank you.
Hey, guys, no need for a literary war here. Everybody's entitled to his/her opinion and it may require a special art how to be a little considerate towards each other.We are cursed and blessed at the same time of having fellow authors reading BoMs and some comments amount to a literary critique. We may agree or disagree with the critique, but it is what it is. I'm under impression that all the BoMs so far resulted in a great deal of critique and praise at once.
I can't possibly think why anyone should have another, personal motivation apart from expressing his/her opinion? Let's keep it cool and there is also an option for private messaging here on GR, you know -:)
I just wanted to take a moment to thank
Tim Rees
for allowing us the privilege of hosting his novel as our book of the month read.
Also, thank you, Kent, for being the discussion leader.
For those of you who read Tim's book, I encourage you to leave a review.
World, Writing, Wealth
Books mentioned in this topic
Delphian: A British Intelligence Story (other topics)Divergent (other topics)
Allegiant (other topics)
Delphian: A British Intelligence Story (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Tim Rees (other topics)Tim Rees (other topics)
Tim Rees (other topics)
Please join us in reading Tim Rees's
Starting on 7 May we can discuss the specified chapters without having to use spoiler tags. Conversely, you must use spoiler tags for any discussion about future chapters.
1 May = First impressions; please hide any spoilers.
7 May = Beginning - Chapter 15
14 May = The entire book
Note: I've reserved the last two weeks of the month to a complete discussion of the book. I believe that doing so promotes more discussion. However, we should be flexible with the dates as best fits the participants.