Initial impressions, Suttree, by Cormac McCarthy, August 2019

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

Welcome to the third reading of Suttree by this group. It was originally selected in 2012 and again in 2017. This conversation was set up for the 2017 reading. Comments for the 2019 reading of this book can be found starting at comment #70.
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Whether you're a fan of Cormac McCarthy or not, anyone who has read him will know that Suttree wil be quite an experience. Suttree promises to be an intriguing character; a young man who abandons his life of privilege to live a hermetic existence of a fisherman living on shantyboat on the Tennessee River. The NYT review claims that it "gives us a sense of river life that reads like a doomed Huckleberry Finn."

I started this book last night and look forward to reading and discussing it with my fellow Trail members.

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

I struggled a bit through the first chapter but things have picked up in the second and third chapter.

I do have one question. Not being a southerner and realizing that things are done a little differently there than elsewhere, I need a little reassurance after reading chapter two. Will somebody please reassure me that what can delicately be described as having unnatural congress with a watermelon is not really a thing? I know that Cormac McCarthy has a vivid imagination but this is really out there.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

It's not something I've ever heard of, but maybe I don't run in those circles. Sheep yes, watermelons no. I think this may be where I stopped last time I tried to read it. I just finished "Outer Dark" by McCarthy, and don't think I can handle another one by him this month.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

In the other hand, I guess if sheep or pigs aren't available......

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

Are you saying that if pigs or sheep aren't available, you may join me in reading it? Please say yes.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

I may try it again, especially since I loved "Outer Dark" so much, but it will have to be later this month.

[Dustincecil]

I'm like you guys. Read a couple of pages of this a few months ago, but decided to revisit it another time. So, thank you "trail" for bumping this up my list.

After the above mentioned watermelon incident, I'm finding it very difficult to predict where this novel will go next. I'm expecting all sorts of dark surprises.

[Laura, "The Tall Woman"]

Oh my, now that's coming back. I haven't read this one but I do remember my hubby talking about that scene. Oh Lawd....I may get to this by the end of the month but not sure yet. I am with Diane...I don't run in those circles, that I know of. Diane, what about the Dickey poem and the sheep child? Gotta love southern authors and their story telling.

[Belinda]

I'm from the South and have never heard of watermelon-f-ing, but somehow I can't imagine the people who do things like that reading Cormac McCarthy either. So, they just sure could be out out there! I'm savoring Lincoln in the Bardo, but I'd love to get to this one this month.

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

Belinda wrote: "I'm from the South and have never heard of watermelon-f-ing, but somehow I can't imagine the people who do things like that reading Cormac McCarthy either. So, they just sure could be out out there..."

In the South's defense, I can't help remembering a certain scene from the movie "American Pie" which I don't believe takes place down south.

[[deleted user]]

This book was on my to read self for a while, this gives me a reason to read it.
JUst wondering is Cormac McCarthy is still around? is still writing books?

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

He is still around, and I think he has a new book coming out sometime in the next few months.

[Josh]

He just published an essay of sorts, but in terms of his fiction, there's rumor he has two unpublished works the may make it to print in the somewhat soon future. The most anticipated one titled "The Passenger" which is presumably done, and in the churn of publisher "when to release it" issues.......some had indicated the winter, but word now has it that June 2018 is more likely. If you want to really dig deep, take a look at this thread. Moreover, this site is the hang out of many a Cormac geek and while I've not been, they host an annual symposium that delves off into fine detail of his muse each year (obviously no author appearances or participation......he's probably not impressed). http://www.cormacmccarthy.com/topic/t...

[Dustincecil]

lol at "show us the rabbithole.."

[Josh]

Also, for those reading, I think you will find this link particularly helpful. Of some debate is whether "The Oarsman" statue is tied to McCarthy or the book. I like to think it is. http://web.utk.edu/~wmorgan/Suttree/s...

[Franky]

I'm in for this one, but I'm going to be wayyyyy behind everyone else, as I just started and am having to really take the opening very slowly to try to decipher things. (And I'm reading another book at the same time).

I do love McCarthy's prose, sophisticated, unorthodox and complex as it is, although sometimes I am having to reread to try to get meaning. The first few pages was like walking into a fog, but I'm starting to pick things up a tad. Quite a bit of literary elements used to begin, and what's with the dead body speaking to Suttree....or did that really happen?

[Dustincecil]

I'm about 100 pages in, and still finding my legs. I can tell that this book is going to be one that I'll need to read again sometimes, for clarity. I like reading McCarthy, because he helps me to remember what a dictionary is for...

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

I just finished "Outer Dark" and found myself wishing that I was reading it on a device instead of a real book to make it easier to look up words. I'll be reading this one on my Kindle for that very reason.

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

I learned that Kindle is a best way to read McCarthy when I was reading Blood Meridian. As you said, it is easier to look up words and terms. It's also easier to highlight or copy passages from the the text. That seems to be important with McCarthy. I found Nabokov was the same.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

First chapter was slow going, I think I stopped in the middle of that last time I tried to read this, just not enough patience to work at it. But I soldiered through, and am happy I did, because chapters 2 and 3 were so worth it. It was a flashback to Suttree's time in the workhouse, and I laughed most of the way through. Here are some quotes that stood out for me:

The farmer who discovers the violation of his watermelons: "He's damn near screwed the whole patch. I don't know why he couldnt of stuck to just one. Or a few".

Describing Harrowgate, "Sly, rat-faced, a convicted pervert of a botanical bent. Who would do worse when in the world again."

When Suttree's mother visits him in the workhouse: " Here is the anguish of mortality. Hopes wrecked, love sundered. "

I am so happy I decided to give this another try. It promises to be an adventure.

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

I'm glad you are enjoying it. I finished it last night and need to spend more time polishing my review. Harrowgate was a never-ending source of amusement for me. I will likely recall for a long time to come that his lawyer defended him against the charge of bestiality with the argument that watermelons aren't beasts.

[Dustincecil]

This has slowed my reading. It's so much. It's hard to describe how it feels to read this book, or exactly what I love about it. (hoping forward to a little bit lighter territory with eudora welty next month...?)

I will def. buy a copy of this, because I will read it again, probably missed a lot of what's happened already.

[Dustincecil]

...also, I literally thought "well, there haven't been any (view spoiler)[dead babies (hide spoiler)]." then, there was one! just floating down that river...

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

I was trying to read this quickly, but find that if I read for too long a time, I lose interest because of the rambling nature of the book. I'm at 30%, and will slow it down to read just a chapter or two at a time. I really like it though, Suttree is a difficult character to get a handle on.

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

Diane wrote: "Suttree is a difficult character to get a handle on. "

I agree. There were moments when I thought I liked him but then I thought about what he did, or didn't do, with his life and realized there wasn't much to like him for. His character is somewhat of a participating observer.

[Franky]

Agree Diane about the way the book is constructed. It really isn't plot driven, but more a series of episodes.

I'm enjoying it, and like other have said, I like the intervals of comic relief here and there. I recall that one scene where Suttree is in jail after the paddy wagon picks him up after he's hungover, and he's asking the guard to call someone to bail him out...only to find the guys who he's trying to call are sleeping in the same cell...lol.

I like scenes along the river too, they are definitely Huck Finn(ish).

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

This book reminds me of Cannery Row and Tortilla Flats by Steinbeck. We are seeing the underbelly of Knoxville in the 1950's, and piecing together Suttree's past life. The people in this novel are the throwaways of society, and for whatever reason, Suttree has chosen them over his family. Harrogate is pure comic relief, his stupidity is unbelievable.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

I'm at 60% now, and it's gotten much better since I slowed down my reading. This is a tale that develops slowly, and is not plot-centric, but a developement of Suttree and his environment. I really like Suttree, but have to admit he makes some pretty poor decisions.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Finished! I loved this book and am so glad I decided to read it. I'll post a review when I get it written.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Here we go! Here is a review by Diane: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Franky]

I'm about to page 300 and I feel like the rambling nature of the book is really taking away from the experience. Sometimes I'm having to question: What's the point?

I didn't think it possible to fill a book with so many degenerate characters...

Maybe there will be a moment when things come together at the end, but right now, I'd say I liked The Road and All the Pretty Horses much better than Suttree.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Franky, I think the book as a whole is more important than the individual chapters. I really got a sense at the end of the loneliness and tragedy of all the degenerates we meet along the way. They at least tried to help each other, with money and food and what support they could give.

[Dustincecil]

So glad to have read this. A lot of moments from this book are going to stick me for a while. I think Suttree and The Road are interesting to look at side by side, and that they were written so far apart- definitely cut from the same cloth.

Shouldn't there be a Suttree movie?

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

I kept picturing Paul Newman for Suttree. I"m surprised there hasn't been a movie, given the popularity of McCarthy.

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

I was thinking more of Henry Fonda, probably from Grapes of Wrath.

[Howard]

Tom wrote: "I was thinking more of Henry Fonda, probably from Grapes of Wrath."

I don't think it will be either of those two.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Funny, Howard. The last few times I have discussed movie casting of books with friends, I always come up with dead actors for the part. Either I am old or there is a dearth of "real" actors these days who don't depend on special effects to do their job. Maybe I could see Matthew McCaughnahy (sp?) as Suttree.

[Franky]

Diane wrote: "Funny, Howard. The last few times I have discussed movie casting of books with friends, I always come up with dead actors for the part. Either I am old or there is a dearth of "real" actors these d..."

Matthew McConaughey as Suttree, I can totally see that. Seems like a character he'd take a role for.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Thanks for the spelling. Did you know or did you have to look it up?

[Howard]

Diane wrote: "Funny, Howard. The last few times I have discussed movie casting of books with friends, I always come up with dead actors for the part. Either I am old or there is a dearth of "real" actors these d..."

As I said, I read the book years ago, and I'm out of tune when it comes to current actors, but could Billy Bob Thornton play the part?

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

I can't see Billy Bob as Suttree, but maybe as one of his drinking buddies, Callahan for instance, one of his hard drinking, fighting, thieving cronies.

[Howard]

Diane wrote: "I can't see Billy Bob as Suttree, but maybe as one of his drinking buddies, Callahan for instance, one of his hard drinking, fighting, thieving cronies."

That would be Billy Bob.

[Dustincecil]

Diane, I'm with you 100% about Paul Newman.
How about Joaquin Phoenix for now...?
Woody Harrelson as a drinking buddy too.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Both good choices, Dustin.

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

Who would be a good Harrogate? My vote goes to DJ Qualls.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0702809/?r...

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

He is perfect, Tom. Now all we need is a producer, director, and screenwriter.

[Dustincecil]

Probably because it was so fresh in my mind, but this book also made me think a little bit of "Lincoln in the Bardo". I liked thinking of these characters stuck in place/wandering around waiting for their chance to cross the river of woe.

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[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

I can see that, Dustin, but wouldn't have thought of it myself.

[Franky]

Finished last night (finally) and the last parts of the book, to me, were the most essential, important, and really swayed my thoughts on the book in whole.

Agree with Diane about the comment, the book as a whole is more important than the individual parts. Sum is bigger than its parts so to speak.

And that crazy explosion of sensory imagery and symbolism in Suttree's visions and hallucinations, etc. That was crazy, and powerful. So much symbolism in the book's final pages, too.

In the end, a pretty good book. I don't think I've ever read a book that I have felt so many different emotions and feelings, good or bad.

Other thoughts:
I would never want to play Mr. McCarthy one on one in a game of Scrabble.

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

Franky wrote: "I would never want to play Mr. McCarthy one on one in a game of Scrabble. "

Better McCarthy than Nabokov. If the word he needed didn't exist he would make it up.