On the Southern Literary Trail discussion
Group Reads archive
>
Initial impressions, Suttree, by Cormac McCarthy, August 2019
Mod
Great comments, Sandra! Well stated. If a reader goes into this book looking for plot, that reader will be sorely disappointed. This book is about stepping back and examining life.
Hi Sandra and all my dearest - sorry I have just been popping in and out ! But you know I had to comment on Cormac McCarthy ! Besides The Road which is extremely different from Suttree , my next favorite is Suttree when it comes to reading McCarthy ! That man may not be too easy to describe but I love his writing . He is pure genius ; right alongside William Faulkner in originality and the don't give a s--- how many rules I break to get "my" point across if you can read enough to recognize what " my" point is . I feel some writers can be studied and read all your life and because their writing is as layered and complex as their own personality and perspective on life in general you will always find something different when reading McCarthy . He is such a private person or again maybe he is just what you see . Some authors are so straight forward you can't believe they are not more complex than you are trying to understand. So Sandra, your summary was written very well . If you are ever one to return to books at anytime , you will revisit McCarthy rather it is Suttree or Child of God or The Road ,or maybe all of his works . I have plans to try to read his works in the order as they were published next. I may even try to find some research on how he might suggest his readers try to read his books .
I have tried several approaches to William Faulkner in that way. I have yet to finish what I try as the perfect approach yet. I find a character mentioned out of place or something that messes me up . I would love to have a expert on both authors suggest a journey through both author's works .
I hate to sound obsessive about reading books in order as the author may have intended . Especially, when you are describing writers with such unique writing skills and characteristics as Cormac McCarthy and William Faulkner . It is just that I really thought after reading McCarthy that he had to have been influenced by Faulkner at least in the way they both are known to write in straightforward honest and unusual styles . Each of these two writers seem to pull their readers beyond what the true meaning of each sentence means . Each sentence has the serious reader exploring the hidden context behind the words . A reader searches for the answers in setting and in hints between the thoughts and actions of his characters to learn more about the relationships and complex conflicts that are being expressed so subtly. Both authors also break the rules and use long run-on sentences. This technique is known by Faulkner to be called a stream of consciousness type of sentence to represent actually how people think . It is originally a Faulkner invented skill that Faulkner used to wrap his readers into the moment in time and space with the characters and the action . He tried to create a dreamlike state to make his scenes completely grasp his readers attention . You hear of readers saying they were lost inside a book so much they could not hear the real outside world. McCarthy used this skill and took it further by building his own language in creating words that actually fit the context as used and yet they were not real words. Yet, skilled readers, never stopped to notice the word was not real .
I have just been rambling on . I am sorry. I just love both McCarthy and Faulkner and I have written an essay on these two lovely writers in previous years. They still fascinate me as well as so many we read in this group. Just remember, I am just one little mind and my little opinions are not always right . The greatest thing about Goodreads is someone could come up with a perfectly great new theory and prove that to me and I will be throwing my theories out the window ! You are all brilliant and experts in your own right ! I just hope we get to talk about it ! I miss book chatter ! My Mom is blind and my Daddy is intelligent but doesn't read . He has lost the patience since the cancer .
I am still out here ,I just have not had time to fix my site ad reviews , but I will !
I am not Wonder Woman but I could be a Wandering woman !!! LOL !
Dawn
One of the things I love about Cormac McCarthy's writing is his use of the juxtaposition of the ugliness and the basest horror that mankind is capable of, matched up against the undeniably simple beauty and wonder of nature nonetheless. The earth just keeps turning, the sun keeps shining (well not in The Road!) animals keep going about their animal pursuits regardless of whatever shenanigans human beings are up to in the other universe of the human realm. This was used to great effect in both Blood Meridian and Child of God. You'd be cringing one minute about babies hanging in trees or some such atrocities and the next he would go on for pages describing the desert and the sky during a sunset. He can take some of the ugliest subject matters, excavated from the hell realm of his imagination and some of the worst types of individuals and their horrible depraved pursuits and describe them so beautifully, use just THE RIGHT words, archaic or made up portmanteaus, that you are in awe and delight in his powerful poetic prose. Then he'll sometimes throw in something preposterously humorous, some spot on dialogue or kooky character and you'll find yourself chucking in spite of it all. Nabokov did this as well, to equally great success in Lolita.
Dawn wrote: "This technique is known by Faulkner to be called a stream of consciousness type of sentence to represent actually how people think . It is originally a Faulkner invented skill that Faulkner used to wrap his readers into the moment in time and space with the characters and the action . "Don't forget my darling Virginia Woolff
Sandra - YES ! And then YES of Course I am probably the only one of us that has not read Virginia Wolfe but , YES , she writes in streaming thoughts , doesn't she ? Sandra - it is so wonderfully summarized in your writing ! It is life ! The daily view of the world as we see it : beauty vs beast or good vs evil ! And lately we seem to see it more and more each day . Just think how shocking his writing was to readers when they would read his works as they were first published . I can barely read him now without nightmares much less think about having read him in my younger years !
Stephen King lost me after Pet Cemetery! HA! I believe Cujo was the last Stephen King movie I went to see ; with my Daddy , I might add ! My Daddy said no more movies like that with you ! It is something about the pain of damage to animals that I cannot tolerate ! I still have not gone back to Tom Franklin's Hell At the Breech after the first chapter ! Then Harry Crews - nope!
I may try Tom again . Since I have to see him and Beth in October!
That movie that was really old with Micheal Douglas -- oh! Fatal Attraction, when the rabbit was killed or cat ? That made me so upset ! Almost sick ! I have not even seen The Revenant yet !!
Enough of that stuff !
Good Reading !
Dawn
Mod
Diane - you have not read " The Virginia Wolfe " either ? We better do something about this ! HA!
Whenever I set out to open her books , someone steers me away and says she is boring ! No one ever tells me anything nice about her . There had to be something because her biographical materials are everywhere. I loved Michael Cunningham's The Hours and the movie . But I really did not know her story ! HA!
Why are we supposed to like her ? Anyone know ?
I usually try to stick with books I know I want to read because I have so many I WANT TO READ ! HA! If I can't find a really good reason , I am not wasting time ! There are too many books in the sea for this girl ! Unless someone brings me chocolates and Flowers and even champagne sometimes !!! HA! Hard argument to convince me to read some books .
But , I am not a lost cause . I am always up for a new point of view !
Dawn
Mod
We better do something about this ! HA!
Whenever I set out to open her books , someone steers me away and says she is boring ! No one e..."
Hi Dawn, I'd love to hear your comments over at the Santini discussion.
Tom - Shhh! Y'all Don't tell Tom that I skipped that one again too ! HA! Dawn
Diane wrote: "Would you believe I have never read Virginia Woolf? !"No, I would not believe that!
Zorro wrote: "Dawn wrote: "This technique is known by Faulkner to be called a stream of consciousness type of sentence to represent actually how people think . It is originally a Faulkner invented skill that Fau..."Wikipedia on Stream of Consciousness: "The term was coined by William James in 1890 in his The Principles of Psychology, and in 1918 the novelist May Sinclair (1863–1946) first applied the term stream of consciousness, in a literary context, when discussing Dorothy Richardson's (1873–1957) novels. Pointed Roofs (1915), the first work in Richardson's series of 13 semi-autobiographical novels titled Pilgrimage,[2] is the first complete stream of consciousness novel published in English. However, in 1934, Richardson comments that "Proust, James Joyce, Virginia Woolf & D.R. ... were all using 'the new method', though very differently, simultaneously"."
Just saying, although he did indeed employ it, Faulkner definitely didn't invent "stream of conciousness" writing.
Mod
Doug - Thank you for all the info . I actually did like James when we studied him in class but I can't quite place the name of the story . I will look it up . Now I had a friend say for Woolf I should start with The Lighthouse or something like that and of course most people do like Mrs. Dalloway . You know Virginia Woolf was quite popular during the golden years and much more so than Faulkner . As I was looking at a chart on Goodreads of most popular literature from 1900-1945. But by far this period of years for writers was very great because the Wars brought out literature from all over the country and also many more genres were read too! It was such an exciting time ! I still love F. Scott Fitzgerald better than Hemingway the other major expatriate! Hemingway really left the American World when he went overseas . He never really came back to the USA. I suppose that is only my opinion from limited reading .
I will try VW soon . I never say never to a book ! That would be like saying you would never want to meet a new and unique person . Think how much you would miss if you shut your mind off to other points of view . Part of reading is seeing other sides of stories we can't always see . Even when you see both sides who are we to judge as mere people about what others hold in their hearts and minds unless of course harm and violence comes into play. Then again , I feel reading helps you become more knowledgeable in order to make more just fair and balanced decisions. Well, I do hope it does because our system of justice is based on knowing the true difference between right and wrong and good and evil.
Even so , books like McCarthy's Suttree will really get into your mind and stick with you . Remember, knowledge is power and there are different strengths of knowledge in the world . You can choose to use your knowledge for evil as in selfishness or to serve others as in goodness. Some evil is so twisted you cannot see the logic in its motivation at all but those very basic human needs from barbaric ages do still manage to linger in man like a wild animal.
Scary , but it is often the subject chosen to ponder in many an author's books in many different ways . All human beings are completely different and each person owns a story of their very own be it imagined or true !
Goodreading ,
Dawn
So sorry above -- I meant James Joyce and I loved The Dubliners ! There was another story in that book about a Carnival that was very good ! Then Ulysses ! How could I forget , Joyce ! I took an Irish Lit. Class . Then I also took a Modern Irish Lit. Class ! You think McCarthy is strange , you should try the wild ramblings of Patrick McCabe's The Butcher Boy ! There are more ! I have read three of his . Then Tana French Mysteries are good for deserts. She is spot on but it is interesting seeing how vocal and open the Irish are than the PC police . Then there are some great poets and Coilm Tolbin . Ramblings again !
Dawn
Diane wrote: "what is my best bet for starting? "Mrs. Dalloway
Just started reread - forgotten how many times of The Years by Woolf and this is my second favorite of all times after Gone with the Wind which takes place one The Years is a masterpiece for its plot construction but captures a certain period of English social history better than any other
Mod
Mod
I missed the earlier reading of this, so I was planning to join this time. Unfortunately, my library seems to have misplaced their copy, so unless it is found, I will either be late in starting or miss again. It is a very small library, so I am mystified as to how they lose so many books...this is three times this has happened to me in the last two years. If I don't make it for this read, I intend to eventually get to this one!
Mod
You hate to think that, especially in this kind of small town where the library fights for every dime just to stay alive. I hope it is just a poor shelver. ((sigh))
Wow! I am very fond of Cormac McCarthy's work. Suttree tops the list! It will be on my all time favorite book list. I am moving slower than usual as McCarthy uses words that I am not familiar with. Words such as "ort", "trunnions", "crepuscular" just to mention a few. The most confusing reference was to "drinking canned heat" in desperation. I only knew of the band Canned Heat. I keep a dictionary at hand when reading. I am quite smitten by Suttree thus far . . . .I have a way to go to get a clear vision. I found the watermelon bit darkly amusing. Reading this gem will take some time, but I am beyond dazzled. My family lived in Columbia Tennessee during the era of Suttree. Suttree might motivate me to visit.
Mod
Mod
I’ve read through all the comments from 2017 and have found some that are definitely going to be helpful. I ordered my book from abebooks and the small print leaves a lot to be desired for these ‘older’ eyes. I’m going to see about getting it on my kindle because I have rapidly, page 1, run into the vocabulary issue. The first 3 pages italicized in my print copy that begins, Dear Friend, may as well have read blah, blah, blah, for all I got out of it. The dialog is wonderful, because I feel like I’m in a story when I read it. I have made it to the inglorious watermelon patch, thinking, no he isn’t but yes he is. I think I’ll read this one as you did Diane, a few chapters at a time. I’m encouraged by the positive comments, hopeful for a better understanding. I think those first three pages are probably important. Are they supposed to be the author’s stream of consciousness? His last line in this opening, “Ruder forms survive,” a caustic little brain munching meal.
Mod
Diane wrote: "Libby, the first time I attempted this book I quit somewhere around the watermelon patch. None of what I read made any sense. The second time I was determined to give it another try, and it did sta..."Diane, I'm doing better. I purchased the ebook for my Kindle and that's been pretty transformative. Stream of consciousness writing and over the top vocabulary does not go with an old print book with yellowed pages. Now, that my eyes aren't working so hard, my brain seems to be working a bit better.
Years ago I read all of McCarthy's books. Don't think I read all the plays or screenplays. It is time for me to try Suttree again. I'll be back
Seems like CM might be channeling a little Faulkner. The watermelon thingy with Wall Street Snopes and his predilection for heifers.
As I get further into the book I am getting the impression that even though Suttree engages with a rough, rowdy group of folks that he remains distanced on some level. Not emotionally invested. On a personal level I liked the exchange that Suttree has with an old railroad employee. The old railroad dude mentions his days spent as a hobo. My grandpa from Tennessee quite some time as a hobo around the turn of the last century. He would describe those days to me when we would sit on his front stoop before Sunday dinner. Fond memories. I am lovin' this book!
Mod
Diane wrote: "Suttree was distant because he was much smarter than his companions. He was there because that's how he wanted to live, not because there was no other choice."This read is an ambitious undertaking for me. (Besides having to have my dictionary at hand.) I look forward to learn how Suttree is fleshed out as the book progresses. Not a fast read.
"hortatory", "radiolarians", "lapstrake", "alembics" This is a challenge, much like climbing the Mount Everest of vocabulary. A challenge, but I am engaged and determined. Lovin' it!
Mod
I'm on the fence about reading this one. I've loved the movie adaptations of McCarthy's books (No Country For Old Men, The Road) but I've only read one of his books: "Blood Meridian". It was a book I really wanted to love but ultimately I felt it was just OK. His writing style didn't engage me as much as other writers that I enjoy. I've heard this is one of his less accessible works, but many people seem to think it's his best.
Mod
Never read Blood Meridian, although it is on my list. I thought The Road was genius at work and I remember feeling drained but excited by All the Pretty Horses. I think he is an acquired taste, and I have, I suppose, acquired a taste for him.The darned library is not going to find its copy of this, so it will no doubt remain a book for the future for me.
And, just like that, the library unearthed their copy. I picked it up today and will begin as soon as my Saturday chores are done. I'm bracing myself for the watermelon scene. I love watermelon and I would hate McCarthy to take me off it forever. :o)
It will be hard for you to view watermelon quite the same way in future.
Mod
{{{CHORTLE}}}
I would give this book 5-stars just for the opening section, kind of prequel to the story. It felt like reading Walt Whitman...there is more of poetry in his prose than there is in most people's poetry. Through warrens of sumac and pokeweed and withered honeysuckle giving onto the scored clay banks of the railway. Gray vines coiled leftward in this northern hemisphere, what winds them shapes the dogwhelk's shell.
If that is not powerful description, I don't know what would be. I have an immediate feel for this place that we are entering and also a sense that only the strong could survive here.
Dang I'm glad my library found this book!
Mod
Sara wrote: "I would give this book 5-stars just for the opening section, kind of prequel to the story. It felt like reading Walt Whitman...there is more of poetry in his prose than there is in most people's po..."Amen. Me too!
Made it through the watermelon incident. This boy is seriously strange. lol. I love the relationships being forged in the jail. (view spoiler)
This writing is so raw it makes me wince and yet so real that you feel you are there. What strikes me the most is how many smells he conjures...the stench of the river, the vomit, the fart that clears the room, the fish guts. Not pleasant, but adds to the sense of the place and the condition of the people.
On the Southern Literary Trail
Books mentioned in this topic
The Road (other topics)No Country for Old Men (other topics)
Suttree (other topics)
Suttree (other topics)
Suttree (other topics)
More...
This exactly. I will have to read this again, no question. I generally read for entertainment so a lot of the time it's just "blah blah blah" reading for the plot or the "story itself" and this just ain't one of those kinds of books. There isn't much plot, per se, though there is somewhat of a story, but also you kind of have to fill in the blanks yourself as far as back story and I feel I might have missed some important clues.
But, this is one haunting story. This is one crazy, hilarious, heartbreaking story. This is life itself. The flow of the river is akin to the passage of time in the human life and the flotsam and jetsam of human experience.
I kind of hate to admit it because it says a lot about my basic personality, but I "get" Cormac McCarthy. He is one of my favorite writers, one of the greatest writers of all time, undoubtedly. His descriptions of nature, of the hidden interiors of the human heart are quite simply sublime. And I am not given, easily to hyperbole! Haha. I'm having a hard time reviewing this book because I am not a good enough writer to do justice to the book itself.