Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
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Snape's Worst memory?
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Blue
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Jun 10, 2014 11:55AM
Do you think its Sirius or James fault for starting the commotion? This is no hate against the characters and i love the series a lot.
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It was Sirius's and James's fault. They tormented him in school. I'm sure eventually Snape went out of his way to irritate them but they decided to dislike him from the moment that they met him, and never let up on him. I wasn't a fan of James and Sirius and am fiercely sympathetic to Snape's character.
Iris wrote: "It was Sirius's and James's fault. They tormented him in school. I'm sure eventually Snape went out of his way to irritate them but they decided to dislike him from the moment that they met him, an..."Well i agree, the two just caused a bunch of trouble and Snape calls Harry a lot like his father in the book.
Babafaba(Hypnos)((Awesome Bob))(((Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore)))((((Scuttle)))) wrote: "I believe James and Sirius should bear the blame but Snape wasn't totally innocent either. He should have handled different his problems and definitely not be so strict with Harry. But yeah, James..."I totally agree, Snape shouldn't take his anger into Harry
Snape needed to vent, all those years keeping it in. Harry was the perfect scapegoat because he looked like James! And he was only a little verbally abusive to him-- and Harry deserved it. Always mouthing off and whatnot. He was like James in that way and it must've been so frustration for Severus, who had to deal with 'James' all over again.
Well i havent thought of it that way. Anyways Harry is like his dad but with lily's eyes. If harry looked more like lily maybe snape could have liked him.
Agreed. If he looked like Lilly then Snape would have been more of a defender and protector than of an antagonist. But anyway it doesn't matter that Snape hated Harry, he watched over him anyway and thats all that matters.
Iris wrote: "Snape needed to vent, all those years keeping it in. Harry was the perfect scapegoat because he looked like James! And he was only a little verbally abusive to him-- and Harry deserved it. Always m..."Harry did not "deserve it" Snape treated him and all the Gryffindor's like crap and Harry was very frustrated with it. I'll admit that Harry wasn't the best student but Snape is an abysmal teacher. Take the incident with Buckbeak, Snape knows that Draco is faking his injury, but he forces Ron (or Harry I can't remember) to do all his work in potions class. That's just one of the many examples of Snape treating students terribly, there are so many more instances, such as Snape wanting to poison Neville's toad.
Roger wrote: "Iris wrote: "Snape needed to vent, all those years keeping it in. Harry was the perfect scapegoat because he looked like James! And he was only a little verbally abusive to him-- and Harry deserved..."Well Snape isn't the perfect teacher like that umbridge, Snape is just putting his anger into the gryfindors cause James and Sirius were in it.
Well maybe you're right about his hating all Gryffindors, and the poison toad thing was cruel but I don't detest Snape. I know he can be a jerk sometimes but I firmly believe he was made that way by the Gryffindors he went to school with. And I will admit to absolutely hating Harry's character. I don't think that he was a good person. He was hateful, more inclined to believe the worst about a person than good. I guess I'm a Slytherin when it comes to my dislike of Harry.
It just really bothers me that people defend Snape's actions, you have a grown man picking on an 11 year old because of something his father did to him 20 years before. If this was a teacher in real life there would be an outcry to get this guy fired. It seems like he gets a pass because he was treated like crap as a kid, well big freaking deal, many people were picked on by others as a teenager and they don't bully children.
Harry isn't 11 in the book Roger, he is i think 15 in this book. And have you read deathly hollows? Snape gets what he deserves but i don't really hate Snape but his attitude against the potters is just cliche.
I have read the books many times, it's not like he just starts treating him like crap at 15. He treats him like crap throughout the entire series.
Well Snape Dies in one of the books though. Snape does have a reason since Harry acts like his father most than he acts like lily.
BlueElephants wrote: "Well Snape Dies in one of the books though. Snape does have a reason since Harry acts like his father most than he acts like lily."I might agree with that if he gave him a chance, but the animosity starts from the beginning.
There is a lot of things J.K wanted to change in the book but nobody really knows why snape was such a jerk if they are new to harry potter.
Roger wrote: "BlueElephants wrote: "Well Snape Dies in one of the books though. Snape does have a reason since Harry acts like his father most than he acts like lily."I might agree with that if he gave him a c..."
Harry disliked him from the beginning too. He takes one look at him and decides he's a 'bad guy.' They didn't get to know each other.
Even when Harry learns, countless times, how Snape helped him, when Snape saved him, he still refuses to believe that he is good. The order tries to tell him to be less bias but he won't listen. Because Snape and his father didn't get along harry assumes that Snape is unworthy of his affection/admiration/respect.
Iris wrote: "Roger wrote: "BlueElephants wrote: "Well Snape Dies in one of the books though. Snape does have a reason since Harry acts like his father most than he acts like lily."I might agree with that if h..."
That is very true, Harry can be a little shit at times but I will say that he is a teenager and teenagers are not always rational beings. There also has to be a lot of emotion regarding Snape for Harry, first Snape is always attacking Harry's dad, most people would not handle that well. But it goes even farther than normal because Harry's dad is dead so that comes along with a ton of extra emotion. I also think there is some jealousy too, even though Snape hates James he at least got to meet and get to know James, Harry has never had that chance. I don't I just cut Harry a lot more slack than I do Snape, Snape is the adult in the situation and Harry is an orphaned teenager that has idolized parents that he's never known.
As for Harry's initial dislike of Snape, I always took it to be that Harry didn't like Snape because he sensed that Snape did not like him. If I remember correctly (and I might not be) Harry first notices Snape while in the Great Hall and he can feel the hatred in the look that Snape is giving him.
Roger wrote: "Iris wrote: "Roger wrote: "BlueElephants wrote: "Well Snape Dies in one of the books though. Snape does have a reason since Harry acts like his father most than he acts like lily."I might agree w..."
Well Harry has no family left after the book and Snape could act nicer towards harry since he's gone so far but Snape and Harry wouldn't give each other a chance into getting to know about each other. Snape usually helps Harry in any privileged but ends that lesson with Harry disliking him or being a little rude. Like when he went into shape's pensive. That was fairly stupid of him to sneak into shape's worst memory.
Roger wrote: "Iris wrote: "Roger wrote: "BlueElephants wrote: "Well Snape Dies in one of the books though. Snape does have a reason since Harry acts like his father most than he acts like lily."I might agree w..."
I never understood why Harry loved his parents so much. He never knew them. To put them up on the pedestal that he did was just silly. He didn't know them, so couldn't it be true that one or both of them were mean to others? Couldn't it be true that they weren't this beacon of perfection?
Iris wrote: "Roger wrote: "Iris wrote: "Roger wrote: "BlueElephants wrote: "Well Snape Dies in one of the books though. Snape does have a reason since Harry acts like his father most than he acts like lily."I..."
I think that stems from how poorly the Dursleys treat him, he imagines his parents are perfect because it's a fantasy where he isn't stuck in a terrible home.
By far it was James and Sirius fault, and Snape wasn't totally innocent either :P. But Snape didn't need to treat Harry like that, that he did in almost all books. It was because Harry looked so much like James, and acting like him to. Harry was not an angel, he did bad stuff, not only bad stuff. And Snape had to deal with it again because Harry looked like and acted like James.
Iris wrote: "Roger wrote: "Iris wrote: "Roger wrote: "BlueElephants wrote: "Well Snape Dies in one of the books though. Snape does have a reason since Harry acts like his father most than he acts like lily."I..."
Well i agree with that, Harry only saw his mum get killed and thats it. He never knew what his parents even acted!
The Dursleys just hate wizarding families. But in the Book, Aunt Petunia knew something that we never knew about.
It was both James's and Sirius's fault. They decided to pick on Snape in his worst memory. Snape wasn't doing anything to them and they just bullied him because they were bored. There's no excuse for that.Remus and Peter just let it happen, so they're not innocent either.
Roger wrote: "It just really bothers me that people defend Snape's actions, you have a grown man picking on an 11 year old because of something his father did to him 20 years before. If this was a teacher in rea..."
Exactly! People are sensitive about Snape because he's a fan favorite, thanks to his sad backstory. But going through a lot of hardship doesn't justify disproportionate hate towards a 15-year-old boy just because he looks like his father.
Blue wrote: "Well Snape Dies in one of the books though. Snape does have a reason since Harry acts like his father most than he acts like lily."I think he acts a bit like both. He didn't prank people or hex them unless they really deserved it (*ahem* Draco) but James did it to Snape for fun. Also, he has a bit of Lily's kindness and sympathy.
Iris wrote: "Roger wrote: "BlueElephants wrote: "Well Snape Dies in one of the books though. Snape does have a reason since Harry acts like his father most than he acts like lily."I might agree with that if h..."
True... but first, Harry thought that Snape looked at him with dislike, and that is why he "disliked" Snape from the beginning. Second, Harry did not know how bad James really behaved until that moment, and always thought his father a really heroic and important person for standing up to Voldy.
To everyone questioning why Harry puts his parents on a pedestal, well duh! Everyone Dumbledore, Hagrid, Remus,Slughorn and everyone else who was not a death eater had nothing but excellent things to say about his parents about how honorable, brave, ad kind they were. How else would you expect him to think of his parents?
I agree. Every good wizard and witch thought kindly and thought that Harry's parents were amazing. I think Harry needs to think and honor his parents so it's right for him to put his parents on a pedestal.
Well Harry felt hurt when he found out the truth about his father. He just got angry they did that. He even got disappointed at Sirius too.
booklover123 wrote: "To everyone questioning why Harry puts his parents on a pedestal, well duh! Everyone Dumbledore, Hagrid, Remus,Slughorn and everyone else who was not a death eater had nothing but excellent things ..."I understand that people praise them, but Harry must've realized that no one really speaks ill of the dead. He should've taken everything people said about them with a grain of salt.
But even after all that praise, he should have realized that he never knew them! His love for these fictitious parents/people always boggled me. I know that I would not give a rats tail about two dead people that I've never met no matter their relation to me. His ardent love and admiration of them was just silly.
I think that the tension between Snape and James and Sirius was caused by James and Sirius. I felt bad for Snape while reading the pensieve scene, because James and Sirius bullied him, which was wrong. But, they were young and eventually grew up and turned into mature adults who made good decisions. However, Snape remained bitter and held his childhood grudges towards James against Harry, which was wrong of Snape. Although Harry was similar to his dad, he was also a lot different, and he would not torment people for fun. Snape did not take the time to even get to know Harry as an individual, which was unfair. People change as they grow up and some people choose to let go of the past and some people continue to bitterly hold on.
The feels! Oh wow. I didn't know they could be this powerful! It was James' fault all the way. He's the one who said stuff and actually did the spells. Sirius was along for the ride.
But I love Severus. He's the best character in any book I've ever read or will read. I know it already. I love Severus. He just needs a hug.
I think the worst part of that memory for Snape isn't James and Sirius's actions, but his calling Lily a mudblood. This ruined any chance he had with her romantically and I think he hated how much he upset his best friend. James and Sirius can't compare to that.
Isabel wrote: "I think the worst part of that memory for Snape isn't James and Sirius's actions, but his calling Lily a mudblood. This ruined any chance he had with her romantically and I think he hated how much ..."Snape didn't want to say it at all! He was just making himself a reputation.
Isabel wrote: "I think the worst part of that memory for Snape isn't James and Sirius's actions, but his calling Lily a mudblood. This ruined any chance he had with her romantically and I think he hated how much ..."I understood it to be that too, but I think the forum here is debating who was the bad guy in the confrontations with Snape and James and Sirius.
Well Stick to the topic if you please, but its mostly about those three men.
I thought about that too. At one point i totally agree with snape's hatred for james and sirius because they bullied him and stuff.However Harry's parents' heroic sacrifice for him doesn't step down either. So at the other end of the spectrum I think Harry is right to be proud of his parents!
Blue wrote: "Roger wrote: "Iris wrote: "Snape needed to vent, all those years keeping it in. Harry was the perfect scapegoat because he looked like James! And he was only a little verbally abusive to him-- and ..."no no no no stop right there, you can never ever compare snape to umbridge ;)
Lucy wrote: "Blue wrote: "Roger wrote: "Iris wrote: "Snape needed to vent, all those years keeping it in. Harry was the perfect scapegoat because he looked like James! And he was only a little verbally abusive ..."Actually you could, Umbridge is the sort of equal to Snape in a odd way but stick to the topic, =)
Zoey wrote: "I thought about that too. At one point i totally agree with snape's hatred for james and sirius because they bullied him and stuff.However Harry's parents' heroic sacrifice for him doesn't step do..."
i agree, if my parents died before i really knew them and i lived with people like the dursleys, i would definitely want to think that they were good and stuff, especially after everyone tells him how wonderful they are.
Blue wrote: "Lucy wrote: "Blue wrote: "Roger wrote: "Iris wrote: "Snape needed to vent, all those years keeping it in. Harry was the perfect scapegoat because he looked like James! And he was only a little verb..."Blue wrote: "Lucy wrote: "Blue wrote: "Roger wrote: "Iris wrote: "Snape needed to vent, all those years keeping it in. Harry was the perfect scapegoat because he looked like James! And he was only a little verb..."
Blue wrote: "Lucy wrote: "Blue wrote: "Roger wrote: "Iris wrote: "Snape needed to vent, all those years keeping it in. Harry was the perfect scapegoat because he looked like James! And he was only a little verb..."
I know haha hence the face, i said that as 99% of harry potter fand detest umbridge.
I really think that Snape is one of the more well-rounded characters out there due to the fact we can argue about whether we love or hate him. We love him because his love for Lily caused him to turn his life around. Yes, there are arguments that it's obsessive love and that's because it was definitely shown as that. Still, I would be inclined to forgive him because of his self-sacrifice for this love.I hate Snape because of the way he acted towards his students that weren't favorites. Harry didn't come in hating Snape. Sure, this might have been different if his parents were alive, but they weren't sadly enough. Snape knew he wasn't under the influence of James or Sirius. He came in with a clean slate and Snape created the hatred by being an absolute prick to Harry. He does the same to the other students (not Slytherin) as well.
I'm unsure as to whether I forgive Snape for his behavior because I don't think love for Lily and hate for James (that James did deserve; I cannot disagree with that) erases the pain that he put the students through. Still Snape is an amazingly written character though if somebody ever told me then loved me like Snape loved Lily, I would be running for the nearest door.
I think this also brings up a similar question as to why fans love Draco but hate James. I am one of these fans myslef. The reason why is both are characters who are the only child of their parents, both are popular in the select group of friends, and both bully other people. But the FUNDAMENTAL difference between them is that James was raised in a loving home and Draco was not. James therefore has no defense for his bad behaviour. So yes James was a complete jerk. Snape did nothing to provoke his abuse and was the unfortunate victim.
Lucy wrote: "Blue wrote: "Roger wrote: "Iris wrote: "Snape needed to vent, all those years keeping it in. Harry was the perfect scapegoat because he looked like James! And he was only a little verbally abusive ..."Agreed. Snape and Umbridge are nothing alike!
@HannahAlso, when Draco picks on other students or calls Hermione a Mudblood or whatnot, most of the times the victims get to fight/insult back or maybe their friends help them. At the end of GoF Malfoy insults the memory of Cedirc Doggory by callously referring him as "the first to go" (as the Dark Lord rises to power again) and he was hexed six ways to Saturday; at the end of OotP he and the two goons tried to ambush Harry and the DA members who saw that hexed him into a human slug. A bit overkill, to be frank, but a lot of the times Draco doesn't get away with bullying unscathed, even though Crabbe and Goyale are at his side. That's also what sets him apart from James. What James had done, if the roles/Houses were reversed, would be comparable to Draco picking on Harry from Day One, ganging up on Harry to the point of eventual sexual abuse (British "pants" = underwear) and seducing his friends away because Harry was supposedly evil, never mind that a bully has lost his credibility in judging others before his acts are straightened.
So James really is worse. So he hated the Dark Arts... in real life even excessive tickling can be convicted as bullying/child abuse, why should he get away with soap water in the mouth?
Hannah wrote: "I think this also brings up a similar question as to why fans love Draco but hate James. I am one of these fans myslef. The reason why is both are characters who are the only child of their parents..."Maybe Draco's home was not as loving as James's, but Draco was definitely loved. His mother would walk through hell for him.
I think the difference is that Draco is loved by parents who wouldn't mind seeing him grow up to be a DE and serve Voldemort, while the Potters had no Dark leanings that we know of and ought to have taught their son to be an upstanding citizen and don't pick on those less privileged than him. We see Draco at age 11-17 grow from a "Mudblood"-throwing bully (who gets his fair share of well-deserved thrashing from his victims and some of the teachers, UNLIKE SAINT JAMES) to a Death Eater who realizes that serving Voldemort isn't glamorous at all and at least passively fought against it (like not identifying Harry at the manor, and not suggesting to the Carrows that the DA might be seeking refuge in the Room of Requirement — do not forget that he knows that the DA used it before back in Year 5 and that he himself spent a good deal of Year 6 mending the Cabinet in the Room). By the time he married and had kids he'd be an OK person at least to the Wizarding World's standards. The same can not be said for JP.
Agreed. Wholeheartedly.
David wrote: "I think the difference is that Draco is loved by parents who wouldn't mind seeing him grow up to be a DE and serve Voldemort, while the Potters had no Dark leanings that we know of and ought to hav..."I can't decide if you're a troll or a fool. We know Snape is an asshole. We know Snape hated James. That an asshole hated James and every worthwhile character we ever meet loves James is sufficient evidence to me that James is the better man.
Also, where in the world do you get your ideas about who James was? From the scant testimony of the person who hated him most in the world? A person who hated James all the more for saving his life? Stop making things up and look at what's actually there.
It is unfair to say James was never reprimanded for his actions. When Snape had Harry in detention in book 6 he had to rewrite school files by hand and his father served a lot of detentions because of the hexes and pranks he performed on people.Whereas with the exception of the impostor Moody who turned Malfoy into a ferret, I can not recall Malfoy getting in trouble at all by the staff.
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