Snape's Worst memory?

[David W.]

I can think of more examples, even though you might be right that James was punished more (though not more effectively, imho):

Year 1 he snitched on Harry and Hermione for transferring Norbert(a) the dragon, and McG gave him detention for staying beyond curfew; Year 3 he and Crabbe and Goyale impersonated a Dementor during Quidditch Gryffindor vs Ravenclaw (the time when Harry totally succeeded in conjuring a Full Stag Patronus, only no one — including the narrative voice — saw it too clearly), McG caught them in a disgraceful heap on the ground and, if I recall correctly, gave the three of 'em detention plus docking off 50 points from Slytherin; Year 6 he was serving at least one traunt-related detention under McG and thus providing him with a perfect alibi when the incident with Katie Bell happened (even though they were in a world when remote mind control exists).

The first two examples happened during the height of the Malfoy family's political influence, and the first happening when Lucius was still on the Board of Governors, yet certain teachers punished Draco when they saw fit, and Lucius never complained the school for sending his son into the Forest.

[booklover123]

True

[Nikki]

I dont think Snape dying was him "getting what he deserves"

Snape was the ultimate hero in the books in my eyes.

[David W.]

@booklover123 I don't particularly like Draco more than James, but at least from what I gathered, whenever Draco is being thrashed by teachers or his would-be bully victims, it would give him a shock and he'd be subdued for some extent until he rears his ugly head again. (We don,t seem to see anything faze James Potter) He has traditionalist, racist leanings and beliefs that, simplistically speaking, many people in the Wizarding World would relate with the Death Eaters and Voldemort. That's not exactly popular politics and his status could only help him get away with so far; in Year 5 even though the Ministry is already being compromised by some of Voldemort's spies and a long-standing "right-wing" tradition of despising Muggles and whatnot held by people like Umbridge, once Lucius was outed as a DE, Draco was screwed.

Compare this with James, he's also from an old, (somewhat) prestigious Pureblood family, and he acts like certain religious people in RL: the scriptures preach love and forgiveness, yet they'd do harmful and discriminating things while still saying it's Gods will. James wants to do Gryffindor proud and oppose the Dark Arts, yet we never see him pick on any other Evil Slytherin than Snape. We might interpret Teen Snape as a budding DE, but I can still swear hand on heart that there are more deserving targets than him. Avery did something to Mary, which Snape dismisses as just having a bit of fun (hard to compare because the Murauders also consider their deeds including Taking Werewolfie For A Walk as fun), but did James do anything to make Avery suffer? We don't get that from Lily and Snape's conversation, and that's pretty damning, because Lily might've expressed her admiration for James, and Snape would've protested that Avery didn't deserve it or something. No, it gats increasingly likely that James and Sirius disliked Snape from the getgo (that much is iron-canon), and continues to pick on Snape (but rarely other Slytherins) because Snape's blood status and friendlessness make him an easy target. That and James wanted Lily away from the bad influence and date himself.

In short, I'd agree with you, @Nikki.

[booklover123]

James Potter was an ass I was just pointing out you can not say he did not suffer some type of consequence for his actions even if it just was detention.

[David W.]

You're right. I still believe he turned out worse because he was supposed to be on the good side, yet he acted so pettily and got away with much more than folks like Malfoy would.

[Emily]

Iris wrote: "Snape needed to vent, all those years keeping it in. Harry was the perfect scapegoat because he looked like James! And he was only a little verbally abusive to him-- and Harry deserved it. Always m..."

Okay, sorry, but I don't think it's ever okay to scapegoat anyone.

I think Snape, ultiately, is a bigger jerk than Sirius and James, like, by a long shot. Forget about Harry - let's talk about the way that Snape treats Neville. Snape torments and bullies Neville constantly, because Neville struggles with the class. That's really horrible, and it always bothered me a lot. I think justifying Snape's treatment of Harry because he looked like James is pretty questionable, but there's absolutely no excuse for how he treated Neville. He bullied Hermione too - in fact, he bullied nearly all of his students besides the Slytherins. Snape was an absolutely horrid teacher.

I don't think what James and Sirius did was alright, but I think it's infinitely more reprehensible for a grown adult to bully a bunch of kids. Snape's friends bullied muggleborn students - in fact, they used dark magic on them. We judge James and Sirius from this one glimpse from Snape's memory, but what might we think of Snape if we had a snippet from Mary McDonald's memory when Snape's friends did whatever disgusting, horrible thing Lily said they did to her, that Snape brushed off as being "just a joke"? And his dismissal of his friends' treatment of Mary is so hypocritical. When James and Sirius use magic against him, he's this wounded victim who's justified in clinging to his outrage well into adulthood, but when his friends use dark magic on a muggleborn girl, well, that's fine, it was just a joke? Like, if that's not a case of the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.

[Hannah]

It was James' fault. He was the ringleader and he kept it going. He had no reason to pick on Snape but he did anyway. He was a bully.

[Pallavi]

Snape was not a ideal teacher . its a fact and he treated Harry badly but i think the reason of it not only that he looks like James ( coz he protected him from book 1 to book 7 ), because if he acts too friendly with Harry no death eaters and Voldemart would have trusted him( Dumbledore's plan for snape to reentry of Snape in Death eaters) and he knows From the book 1 that voldemart will come back.

[Emily]

Pallavi wrote: "Snape was not a ideal teacher . its a fact and he treated Harry badly but i think the reason of it not only that he looks like James ( coz he protected him from book 1 to book 7 ), because if he ac..."

He treated most of his students badly though, and there's no excuse for that in terms of Voldemort and the Death Eaters.

[Lucy]

Emily wrote: "Iris wrote: "Snape needed to vent, all those years keeping it in. Harry was the perfect scapegoat because he looked like James! And he was only a little verbally abusive to him-- and Harry deserved..."

Omg yes yes yes yes I completely 100% agree with this it is SO accurate

[Tana Lovegood of Dumbledore's Army✞~]

Emily wrote: "Iris wrote: "Snape needed to vent, all those years keeping it in. Harry was the perfect scapegoat because he looked like James! And he was only a little verbally abusive to him-- and Harry deserved..."


I agree with u! Yes i feel sorry for Snape and all that but this happend when he was 11 years old! Snape called people "mudblood" and practiced DARK MAGIC! Yes James was a bully but he risked his life for Harry and Lily. Snape was also a bully, he bullied Neville and so many other students. For someone who hated James he was starting to act a little bit like him in a way with bullying students. He's a grown man now he should just see Harry isn't like his father just because of something that happened when he was younger.

[David W.]

Not just 11 years old. 11 to 17/18 years old, the period when people develop their world view and psyche for the rest of their lives, and Snape was being bullied all the way through, with no known teacher intervention or consultation whatsoever. James "changed his ways" but still didn't acknowledge that he'd been a bully, never mind apologize to his victims. You think Snape turned out bad enough and went on to poison (as in, bullying and insulting) the kids under his care? I'll give you that. But his tormentors got off scott-free and that constitutes as an important external component to his future bitterness, even if you considered that he ought to be the "bigger man" and let it go.

James risked his life for Lily and Harry: something any halfway responsible husband and father would do, that doesn't make him exceptional. While Snape risked his life to protect a boy he genuinely hated, along with the rest of the students.

[Tana Lovegood of Dumbledore's Army✞~]

David wrote: "Not just 11 years old. 11 to 17/18 years old, the period when people develop their world view and psyche for the rest of their lives, and Snape was being bullied all the way through, with no known ..."

Yeah, you do have a point! I feel sorry for him but he still isn't one of my favorites but yes protecting Harry was an exceptional thing to do! But he did teach me that Heroes could be found in the most unlikely places and that his intentions were more important then his reputation

SPOILER*


No wonder Harry named 1 of his sons Albus "Severus" Potter

[Emily]

David wrote: "Not just 11 years old. 11 to 17/18 years old, the period when people develop their world view and psyche for the rest of their lives, and Snape was being bullied all the way through, with no known ..."

Yes, but, again, Snape was bullying people as an 11-18 year old as well. He and his friends used dark magic on other students, including one of Lily's friends, and like his own "tormentors", Snape got off scott-free for this. So I just have a hard time feeling sympathy for someone who was, yeah, bullied, but Snape was also dishing it out himself. It just seems very hypocritical to me that Snape plays the victim card with James & co. when he and his friends were harassing other students as well. The real difference between the two is that James grew out of it, whereas Snape became an adult who continued to bully children.

[David W.]

Snape's bullying: could've happened, but the words of Sirius doesn't count as testimony. I see no other canon to support that.

[Emily]

David wrote: "Snape's bullying: could've happened, but the words of Sirius doesn't count as testimony. I see no other canon to support that."

It's in the seventh book in the Prince's Tale. Lily confronts him about it.

[Tana Lovegood of Dumbledore's Army✞~]

Emily is right there is prove in the Deathly Hallows The Prince's Tale chapter Lily does confront about him about it. She also reminded him that he called every muggle born "mudblood" which is bullying and hung out with death eater friends

[David W.]

Snape's guilty of verbal racist abuse, not physical/magical bullying. I know I sound evasive this way, but it's there.

“No — listen, I didn’t mean —”
“— to call me Mudblood? But you call everyone of my birth Mudblood, Severus. Why should I be any different?”

Lily's blind if she can't see that Severus refrained from calling her M~ because she's special to him in more ways than one. That kind of blindness in his own part reflects his immaturity (either Muggleborns are human beings or they aren't, you can't have special "pets" in something this big) but herein also lay a glimmer of a chance for him. Had Lily realized that, she could've at least called out on it ("You have feelings for me, Severus? Well that's pathetic, seeing that I'm just a *Mudblood* to you!") and this dashed Snape's (Rowling-validated) reason for joining the DEs in a horribly misguided belief that it would impress Lily.