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Range of Ghosts
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Range of Ghosts by Elizabeth Bear
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This is the first book of a trilogy which tells a single story; definitely not self-contained. This first entry is mostly about the Worldbuilding and two major characters.
Bear makes an interesting decision with the opening: it begins in the aftermath of the battle, where the protagonist, Temur, wakes up to discover he's still alive. I think many authors would have started just a bit earlier, jumping right into the battle, to get the story off with a kick of adrenaline, flights of arrows and slashing of swords. Instead, that's in the past, and Temur's problems seem minor in comparison: shooing off overeager vultures, keeping his wound from opening again, and staggering someplace safe.
Bear makes an interesting decision with the opening: it begins in the aftermath of the battle, where the protagonist, Temur, wakes up to discover he's still alive. I think many authors would have started just a bit earlier, jumping right into the battle, to get the story off with a kick of adrenaline, flights of arrows and slashing of swords. Instead, that's in the past, and Temur's problems seem minor in comparison: shooing off overeager vultures, keeping his wound from opening again, and staggering someplace safe.
I still have about 70 pages still to go. So far I'm not really all that impressed. The world building was kind of nice, what with the different skies depending on who happened to be in control of the land beneath it at any one time. Also the different gods and types of magics.
However I'm finding it hard to really care too much about the characters. Some are interesting enough, but I'm just not all that attached to them. Nor am I really seeing where things are going (basically people are just wandering around mostly aimlessly), but I guess that's explained by G33z3r in that this is just a setup novel (not that that is an excuse really).
I guess I was expecting something more Mongol specific too. I'd read the Amgalant series by Bryn Hammond which though hard to get into, and harder yet to keep the names straight, I ended up enjoying immensely (it's not fantasy, it's pure historical fiction) and I think I was hoping for something more along those lines. In the current tale, the cultures might as well have been invented rather than representing Mongol/Chinese/Muslim/(view spoiler)...
As I might have been biased with expectations as to what the book would be about, I'm interested to see what others think.
I've only read the first chapter. Did I misread it, or did the big baddie sacrifice twin children just for the purpose of reading the future? Yuck.
I really liked this one. It was the second one which I just suddenly lost interest in and stopped halfway through.
Andrea wrote: "The world building was kind of nice, what with the different skies depending on who happened to be in control of the land beneath it at any one time. .."
I didn't have any particular expectations when I started the book, beyond an epic fantasy of some sort.
In many ways, it's a very traditional heroic fantasy with a group of good guys coming together to take on a powerful bad guy. It isn't based in a European-derived setting. The horsemen archers of the plain may be Mongolian-influenced, but it seems to borrow from other mythologies as well (Djinn, and some true-name magic, at least as far as people.)
The sky is arguably the most unusual fantasy element. Clearly it isn't a manifestation of physical, celestial phenomena, but is something else altogether.
The first sign that the sky might be a little weird was when Temur is described as traveling by day, resting from sunset until the moon rose, traveling by moonlight, and then resting again from moonset to sunrise. At first the astronomy geek in me was thinking, "that's not the way the moon works," and I was mentally dinging Bear for bad astronomy, until it became obvious the entire sky was nothing like the sky were used to.
There's an interesting passage when Samarkar is walking out of Qeshqer, describing the sky going from sunset to twilight to daytime again, the moons changing as she passes between kingdoms or spheres of influence or whatever it is.
Not sure which personages are sufficiently notable to deserve their own moon in the sky. Temur and many members of his family, but apparently not Samarkar. (She was once heir to the throne of Rasa, then went off to Tsarepheth instead. Did she have a moon, and then lose it?)
I didn't have any particular expectations when I started the book, beyond an epic fantasy of some sort.
In many ways, it's a very traditional heroic fantasy with a group of good guys coming together to take on a powerful bad guy. It isn't based in a European-derived setting. The horsemen archers of the plain may be Mongolian-influenced, but it seems to borrow from other mythologies as well (Djinn, and some true-name magic, at least as far as people.)
The sky is arguably the most unusual fantasy element. Clearly it isn't a manifestation of physical, celestial phenomena, but is something else altogether.
The first sign that the sky might be a little weird was when Temur is described as traveling by day, resting from sunset until the moon rose, traveling by moonlight, and then resting again from moonset to sunrise. At first the astronomy geek in me was thinking, "that's not the way the moon works," and I was mentally dinging Bear for bad astronomy, until it became obvious the entire sky was nothing like the sky were used to.
There's an interesting passage when Samarkar is walking out of Qeshqer, describing the sky going from sunset to twilight to daytime again, the moons changing as she passes between kingdoms or spheres of influence or whatever it is.
Not sure which personages are sufficiently notable to deserve their own moon in the sky. Temur and many members of his family, but apparently not Samarkar. (She was once heir to the throne of Rasa, then went off to Tsarepheth instead. Did she have a moon, and then lose it?)
G33z3r wrote: "Not sure which personages are sufficiently notable to deserve their own moon in the sky. Temur and many members of his family, but apparently not Samarkar. (She was once air to the throne of Rasa, then went off to Tsarepheth instead. Did she have a moon, and then lose it?) "I think the moons only apply to the Eternal Sky, and as such Temur's people only. He was able to recognize every moon as some member of his family. I liked how each one was unique and would disappear when that person died. Guess that makes it hard for Temur to disappear and play dead. Wonder if his moon would vanish when he left the sphere of influence of his own lands?
The weirdest is the sky w/the sun that rises in the west ...Andrea felt that the story wasn't very Mongol specific (or true to other historical parallels), but I felt it was pretty close to historical parallels. I wasn't sure if some of the differences were due to Bear deliberately mixing things up or my spotty historical & geographical memory. But I was thinking if Temur's grandad was the Great Khan, a Ghenghis parallel, then that would make Temur potentially a Kublsi parallel. (Or, I think Kublai actually had a grandson Temur.) Tibet seems like a strong influence on Rasa (the polyandry being the biggest clue for me), the Nameless seemed based on the assasins. Not sure of some of the other parallels (Woman King as Scythian??) There's definitely a fantasy twist on things.
For me, Temur & Samarkar come through as interesting & likable characters, but I'd agree the rest of the cast doesn't seem very fleshed out. I never really felt like I had a sense of Edene's character, even less do once she got her own storyline (view spoiler)
I'm about halfway through this book and it's really just okay for me, I find it entertaining enough to finish but doubtful that I will continue with the series. There just doesn't seem to be a whole lot going on.
Hillary wrote: "The weirdest is the sky w/the sun that rises in the west ....."
East & west are usually arbitrary designations orthogonal to north-south. In a universe with normal celestial mechanics, north & south at least correspond to the axis of rotation of the planet, but in this world of infinitely variable skies, I'm not sure even that holds. Navigating must be really hard —The polestar, if there even is such a thing, and constellations keep changing. For all I know, the world is flat, or some other, odder shape.
East & west are usually arbitrary designations orthogonal to north-south. In a universe with normal celestial mechanics, north & south at least correspond to the axis of rotation of the planet, but in this world of infinitely variable skies, I'm not sure even that holds. Navigating must be really hard —The polestar, if there even is such a thing, and constellations keep changing. For all I know, the world is flat, or some other, odder shape.
I wonder if the series will give us a semi-sciencey explanation for the skies ... I'm about 200 pages into the Shattered Pillars & there's at least on other very strange sky.Does the difficulty of navigation increase the importance of the overland Celadon Road trade route?
Hillary wrote: "I wonder if the series will give us a semi-sciencey explanation for the skies ... I'm about 200 pages into the Shattered Pillars & there's at least on other very strange sky.Does the difficulty o..."
G33z3r wrote: " East & west are usually arbitrary designations orthogonal to north-south. In a universe with normal celestial mecha..."
I quite fancy the idea of a flat earth or something else equally odd. I'm not sure how navigating would really work, most of the characters didn't seem to find it too difficult at all, even when jumping between different skies. I can't imagine we'll get an even semi-science-y answer because I'm not sure physics could ever explain a universe in which what the sky looks like is affected by who currently owns land.
It is definitely one of the most unique and intriguing elements to this book.
Overall though, I have to say, I wasn't particularly gripped by this book. I quite liked some parts, and I didn't dislike anything specifically. But for most of it, I was feeling mostly tolerant apathy with glimmers of mild interest.
I can definitely see how some people adore the world-building, and the author has some very interesting ways of phrasing things. At times it was lyrical. But... but... just not my cup of tea...
My hands-down favourite character was Bansh, and given the last time one of my favourite characters was a horse, it was Bela in The Wheel of Time series... well I'm probably going to have to read the rest of the series to see how it ends. (view spoiler)
I haven't finished it but right now it feels like this book is kind of a long prologue if that makes sense?Still interested to see what else she does with the sky/moons ....
(Also hard to stomachs the sacrifice of young twin girls if only because I have you twin girls )
Cat wrote: "My hands-down favourite character was Bansh ..."
I dunno about naming a warhorse "Dumpling".
Cat wrote: "I quite fancy the idea of a flat earth or something else equally odd...."
I thought it was cute that in the finalé to The Magicians season 2, one of the Gods of Fillory was busily creating a new worlds based on a cube. (Rings or Dyson spheres would be more obvious.)
I dunno about naming a warhorse "Dumpling".
Cat wrote: "I quite fancy the idea of a flat earth or something else equally odd...."
I thought it was cute that in the finalé to The Magicians season 2, one of the Gods of Fillory was busily creating a new worlds based on a cube. (Rings or Dyson spheres would be more obvious.)
Rachel wrote: "I haven't finished it but right now it feels like this book is kind of a long prologue if that makes sense?..."
Yeah, this is the "getting the gang together" novel. Once Dorothy has collected the Tin Man, Scarecrow and Lion, they'll be off to kill the wizard.
Yeah, this is the "getting the gang together" novel. Once Dorothy has collected the Tin Man, Scarecrow and Lion, they'll be off to kill the wizard.
Hillary wrote: "Does the difficulty of navigation increase the importance of the overland Celadon Road trade route?..."
For those into the Mongol Empire interpretation of this trilogy, the Celadon Road is a bit like the Silk Road that Mongol Empire greatly expanded in the 1200's.
For those into the Mongol Empire interpretation of this trilogy, the Celadon Road is a bit like the Silk Road that Mongol Empire greatly expanded in the 1200's.
Cat wrote: "Hillary wrote: "I'm not sure how navigating would really work, most of the characters didn't seem to find it too difficult at all, even when jumping between different skies. ..."
Not sure how they navigate (beyond local landmarks), either. Several mountain ranges are described as dominant – it's possible they can be seen for hundreds of miles on open plains.
Not sure how they navigate (beyond local landmarks), either. Several mountain ranges are described as dominant – it's possible they can be seen for hundreds of miles on open plains.
Cat wrote: "Overall though, I have to say, I wasn't particularly gripped by this book. I quite liked some parts, and I didn't dislike anything specifically. But for most of it, I was feeling mostly tolerant apathy with glimmers of mild interest."I think that sums up my feeling too, and that didn't change right till the end of the book. I'm not even really sure what it was about this book that isn't grabbing me.
Though Bansh did something interesting towards the end that has me really excited to find out more about her. In fact it just occurred to me that the characters are predominantly female. If it weren't for the monk (of whom we learn little so far) Temur would be on his own.
I'll be continuing with the second book, I may not love this series but I don't hate it either.
I finally gave up on this book, it just didn't hold my attention enough to finish it and since I really have no intention on finishing the series I decided to spend my time reading something I liked more.
Roger wrote: "I finally gave up on this book, it just didn't hold my attention enough to finish it and since I really have no intention on finishing the series I decided to spend my time reading something I like..."That's a good summation of everything by her that I've tried to read, too.
Jim wrote: "That's a good summation of everything by her that I've tried to read, too..."
I really loved Bear's debut trilogy, which was scifi, Hammered etc.. But her subsequent fantasy works not so much.
I really loved Bear's debut trilogy, which was scifi, Hammered etc.. But her subsequent fantasy works not so much.
I'd also heard good things about Bear, so that's what drove my nomination (including it was free from Tor, hopefully most people who are not liking the book benefited from that).I find this discussion kind of interesting in some ways. It's not good enough that we're singing it's praises, nor deep enough to discuss the themes and topics being examined, nor bad enough to complain about other than just "it wasn't engaging enough". So it leaves us with little to say except discuss the logistics of one worldbuilding quirk :)
The feeling I got reading this book was the same feeling I get when I read a lot of free, indie books. The story and characters are solid, nothing wrong with the language skills of the author, there's an active enough plot, there's good worldbuilding. It's just missing some spark that really good books have but I can't put into words.
Such as when reading the Powder Mage trilogy I was instantly attached to Tamas and Taniel, I was very concerned about their plight and was desperate to know more. Not sure how McClellan achieved it while Bear failed.
It's interesting - the first of her books I read was Undertow - which I liked a lot - but other have never quite measured up - maybe because it was sci-fi and the others more fantasy!
Andrea wrote: "I'd also heard good things about Bear, so that's what drove my nomination (including it was free from Tor, hopefully most people who are not liking the book benefited from that).
I find this discu..."
It's been a little while since I've read this, but I felt much the same. I was a bit generous with 4 stars tbh--it's probably more of a 3 or 3.5 by my system, but I just liked that Bear was trying to write in a new sort of fantasy setting.
Let me see if I can organize what I thought: in the beginning, I never felt that Temur's relationship with the female character (I've forgotten her name) was sufficiently developed. It was just glossed over with exposition, and therefore it was hard to feel his motivation. The "Rescue the damsel" plot was also unimpressive to me and the villain rather boring and straightforward. Samarkar was probably the best character for me, but by the time the tiger-woman showed up I was losing interest in the plot. If I remember right, there was something about the tiger-woman's dialogue that was stilted and awkward and I wasn't interested in her as a character.
I do agree that there was a spark lacking, and I think I might call that "passion." Like the author was simply following an outline about a "rescue the damsel" plot that involves a lot of mundane travel, and because of that the characters never really took on a life of their own. It's a functional story but never evolves beyond that.
Someone who is newer to fantasy might be more impressed, but for me it just has a lot of elements I've seen countless times before without being properly engaging with it.
I find this discu..."
It's been a little while since I've read this, but I felt much the same. I was a bit generous with 4 stars tbh--it's probably more of a 3 or 3.5 by my system, but I just liked that Bear was trying to write in a new sort of fantasy setting.
Let me see if I can organize what I thought: in the beginning, I never felt that Temur's relationship with the female character (I've forgotten her name) was sufficiently developed. It was just glossed over with exposition, and therefore it was hard to feel his motivation. The "Rescue the damsel" plot was also unimpressive to me and the villain rather boring and straightforward. Samarkar was probably the best character for me, but by the time the tiger-woman showed up I was losing interest in the plot. If I remember right, there was something about the tiger-woman's dialogue that was stilted and awkward and I wasn't interested in her as a character.
I do agree that there was a spark lacking, and I think I might call that "passion." Like the author was simply following an outline about a "rescue the damsel" plot that involves a lot of mundane travel, and because of that the characters never really took on a life of their own. It's a functional story but never evolves beyond that.
Someone who is newer to fantasy might be more impressed, but for me it just has a lot of elements I've seen countless times before without being properly engaging with it.
Andrea wrote: "I'd also heard good things about Bear, so that's what drove my nomination (including it was free from Tor, hopefully most people who are not liking the book benefited from that)...."I wish I could be more specific about why her writing doesn't grab me, but it doesn't. IIRC, I started Hammered but thought both the world & character were depressing. I didn't like her enough to see how she dealt with it. I put it down to my moodiness at the time & didn't bother to even show I'd tried to read it, but I've read a couple of other things by her since then. I think a couple of free short stories.
I contributed to the KickStarter campaign of The Long List Anthology: More Stories from the Hugo Awards Nomination List & nominated it for a group read. I was that sure I'd love it. I didn't. From my review, "Covenant" by Bear was the last short story I read before deciding the editor & I didn't like the same things in short stories. I wrote, "...never grabbed me either. None of them did. The points were obvious & just not presented to my taste."
Bear is on my don't bother even trying to read list now. Too many books, too little time. She & I just don't mesh.
Andrea wrote: "I'd also heard good things about Bear, so that's what drove my nomination (including it was free from Tor, hopefully most people who are not liking the book benefited from that).I find this discu..."
I got mine from the library so no harm no foul, I joined this group and another to drive me to read new authors and this did that. Like you I had seen her name around often, not a lot of praise and not a lot of detrimental stuff (similar to this book), so I am glad i got to give her books a try.
Jim wrote: "I contributed to the KickStarter campaign of The Long List Anthology: More Stories From the Hugo Award Nomination List & nominated it for a group read. I was that sure I'd love it. I didn't. From my review, "Covenant" by Bear was the last short story I read before deciding the editor & I didn't like the same things in short stories. ..."
Technically, the The Long List Anthology (discussed here) was just a collection of those stories that had been nominated for the Hugo but not by enough people to make the 5 finalists, so no editor to blame but the expanded mind of fandom. :)
(Bear's "Covenant" (Discussed Here) was also discussed as part of The Best SF&F of the Year, vol 9 (2014) group anthology discussion. That you can blame of editor Jonatan Strahan, or Dozoir, who also included it in his Best of 2014 collection. :)
Technically, the The Long List Anthology (discussed here) was just a collection of those stories that had been nominated for the Hugo but not by enough people to make the 5 finalists, so no editor to blame but the expanded mind of fandom. :)
(Bear's "Covenant" (Discussed Here) was also discussed as part of The Best SF&F of the Year, vol 9 (2014) group anthology discussion. That you can blame of editor Jonatan Strahan, or Dozoir, who also included it in his Best of 2014 collection. :)
Andrea wrote: "It's not good enough that we're singing it's praises, nor deep enough to discuss the themes and topics being examined, nor bad enough to complain about other than just 'it wasn't engaging enough'. ... It's just missing some spark that really good books have but I can't put into words. ..."
Sami wrote: "I do agree that there was a spark lacking, ..."
Jim wrote: "I wish I could be more specific about why her writing doesn't grab me, but it doesn't..."
We seem to have a consensus. If only I paid more attention in 11th grade English class, maybe I'd know how to analyze Literature and could explain why these characters never really take wing.
I mentioned earlier the interesting choice of opening scene, after the battle. That means Temur has lost his old life, but it's one we the readers did not share. He's alone, so he has no one to speak to and illuminate his personality. His sole companion, the only thing he relates to in his survival story, is a horse; which may explain why Bansh is several of our members' favorite character in the book. :)
He's not described as a classic hero – not particularly large or strong or a great fighter, sort of an everyman who just happened to have once been a Prince. His 'struggle for survival' is mostly "don't pass out".
Perhaps because of that, he comes off rather bland.
There are plenty of lone individual survival stories that generate more attachment to the main character. The recent The Martian comes to mind, as does the older Enemy Mine. Maybe those are more engaging of their protagonist because they're written in first person, so where more inside the protagonist's mind. Or maybe it's because their survival situations are just more interesting. ☑ meet the hero.
We meet the big bad guy, Mukhtar al-Idoj, al-Sepehr. He must be the bad guy because he uses human sacrifices (of children, no less) to power his magic. Beyond that cruelty, his evil seems otherwise unmotivated. It feels like a lazy checkbox: ☑ villain introduced.
He meets a small tribe, and again it feels perfunctory. Edene smiles, and they're in love or lust or whatever, and she's carried off by the Flying Dead. ☑ woman fridged.
Then we meet Samarkar. She also has a very different past life, and as with Temur, it's all premise, and not actually living.
Neither of them have much depth to their respective backgrounds. No childhood memories or good friends left behind. They're both adults starting a new life tabula rasa, and neither does much looking back beyond the point where they enter the story.
Now maybe Bear is trying to write real, complex characters whose personalities can be summed up in a single word like vengeful, kind, ambitious, cynical, or snarky; and maybe I'm just too shallow to appreciate that.
Also what do you call that socially awkward moment when you realize you're having an affair with the guy you're helping to find his wife?
Sami wrote: "I do agree that there was a spark lacking, ..."
Jim wrote: "I wish I could be more specific about why her writing doesn't grab me, but it doesn't..."
We seem to have a consensus. If only I paid more attention in 11th grade English class, maybe I'd know how to analyze Literature and could explain why these characters never really take wing.
I mentioned earlier the interesting choice of opening scene, after the battle. That means Temur has lost his old life, but it's one we the readers did not share. He's alone, so he has no one to speak to and illuminate his personality. His sole companion, the only thing he relates to in his survival story, is a horse; which may explain why Bansh is several of our members' favorite character in the book. :)
He's not described as a classic hero – not particularly large or strong or a great fighter, sort of an everyman who just happened to have once been a Prince. His 'struggle for survival' is mostly "don't pass out".
Perhaps because of that, he comes off rather bland.
There are plenty of lone individual survival stories that generate more attachment to the main character. The recent The Martian comes to mind, as does the older Enemy Mine. Maybe those are more engaging of their protagonist because they're written in first person, so where more inside the protagonist's mind. Or maybe it's because their survival situations are just more interesting. ☑ meet the hero.
We meet the big bad guy, Mukhtar al-Idoj, al-Sepehr. He must be the bad guy because he uses human sacrifices (of children, no less) to power his magic. Beyond that cruelty, his evil seems otherwise unmotivated. It feels like a lazy checkbox: ☑ villain introduced.
He meets a small tribe, and again it feels perfunctory. Edene smiles, and they're in love or lust or whatever, and she's carried off by the Flying Dead. ☑ woman fridged.
Then we meet Samarkar. She also has a very different past life, and as with Temur, it's all premise, and not actually living.
Neither of them have much depth to their respective backgrounds. No childhood memories or good friends left behind. They're both adults starting a new life tabula rasa, and neither does much looking back beyond the point where they enter the story.
Now maybe Bear is trying to write real, complex characters whose personalities can be summed up in a single word like vengeful, kind, ambitious, cynical, or snarky; and maybe I'm just too shallow to appreciate that.
Also what do you call that socially awkward moment when you realize you're having an affair with the guy you're helping to find his wife?
Also, every female character is either pregnant (including the horse), indicated they had once been pregnant, thinking about becoming pregnant, or in the case of the wizards, removing the ability to become pregnant. While that was the reality of the times for women, I wanted to read an adventure story, not an attempt to repopulate the decimated Qeshqer people. I find authors have to be careful not to reuse something too much otherwise it's overwhelms everything else (basically if you start to *notice* something is repeating, it's too much). Only Hrahima seemed immune to the baby thing.I read one self-published book where a wizard discovered he could create meat out of thin air (handy since he had a dragon) but then as they travelled about, every time he ran into someone his first reaction was essentially to say "Hey, want some meat?" While I'm sure he had other powers by the end of the book, frankly the only thing I really remember about the story now is "Meat!"
Well, pregnancy is part of the human experience obviously so it'd be strange having no pregnant women/mothers, and it's a welcome thing to see them as major, nuanced characters in fantasy. If pregnancy is all the female character is about, though, it's definitely annoying, and in the case of this book I think we agreed that the characters weren't terribly well developed in general, so I can see the problem.
You bring up a good point, G33z3r, about Bear not giving us a glimpse into Temur's old life, so it's hard to feel for what he lost or what made him the man he is today. A blank slate indeed! Only a little better than the old amnesia trope. And good point about the character being alone in the beginning and having no true survival obstacles to keep the reader engaged or give more insight into him as a person.
So Edene's her name; Temur meeting her in the tribe just reeks of plot contrivance. "We're just going to gloss over this bit and not bother to develop these characters because I need to hurry up and give my hero the motivation that will make my plot to work!"
You bring up a good point, G33z3r, about Bear not giving us a glimpse into Temur's old life, so it's hard to feel for what he lost or what made him the man he is today. A blank slate indeed! Only a little better than the old amnesia trope. And good point about the character being alone in the beginning and having no true survival obstacles to keep the reader engaged or give more insight into him as a person.
So Edene's her name; Temur meeting her in the tribe just reeks of plot contrivance. "We're just going to gloss over this bit and not bother to develop these characters because I need to hurry up and give my hero the motivation that will make my plot to work!"
I only just started it but if it is basically just a loose retelling of Mongol history with some fantasy elements I'm going to be disappointed.
Well, better than the impression left by the initial 50 or so pages but the obvious parallels to real history proceed frustrating enough that I can't see myself hunting out any further books. Because I've read a bit about that area's history recently I found myself mentally translating between cultures and concepts in Bear's world and ours, which severely distracted from the actual story. I would've dealt with it better if either it was deliberately set in our world (I don't think the story would have lost anything) or shifted away completely.
If anyone hasn't read it yet, I see that Tor is going to open up a giveaway for it at the beginning of Augusthttps://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/sh...
Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy
Books mentioned in this topic
The Martian (other topics)Enemy Mine (other topics)
The Long List Anthology: More Stories From the Hugo Award Nomination List (other topics)
The Best Science Fiction & Fantasy of the Year, Volume Nine (other topics)
Hammered (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Bryn Hammond (other topics)Elizabeth Bear (other topics)
(2012)