WE ARE OPEN - WEEK SIX - SPQR - A HISTORY OF ANCIENT ROME - WEEK SIX - May 22nd – May 28th - Chapter Six: New Politics - (pages 209 - 252) ~ No Spoilers, Please

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Hello Everyone,

For the week of May 22nd – May 28th, we are reading chapter 6 of SPQR: A History of Ancient Rome by Mary Beard.

The sixth week's reading assignment is:

WEEK SIX - May 22nd – May 28th -> 6. New Politics (209-252)

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off April 17th.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Vicki Cline will be moderating this selection.

Welcome,

~Vicki

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by Mary Beard

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

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Also, the citation thread:

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Introduction Thread:

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Table of Contents and Syllabus

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Glossary

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Bibliography

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Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - Spoiler Thread

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Link:

by Mary Beard

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Everyone, for the week of May 22nd – May 28th, we are reading Chapter 6.

The sixth week's reading assignment is:

WEEK SIX - May 22nd – May 28th -> 6. New Politics (209-252)

Chapter Overview and Summary:

6. New Politics


Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus

This chapter covers the turbulent period from the mid-100s BCE to around 70 BCE, dealing with the exploits of the Gracchi brothers, Sulla and Spartacus.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Tiberius Gracchus

Discussion Topics:

1. Was Tiberius Gracchus the first Roman demagogue, getting the People’s Assembly to pass a law dividing up the “public lands” into plots for small farmers without instructions from the Senate?

2. Did Rome’s foreign wars and the subsequent bringing to Rome of defeated peoples as slaves lead to the displacement of small farms?

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Coin of the Marsic Confederation

Discussion Topics:

1. Early on, Rome seems to have left the Italian allies alone except when she needed soldiers to fight in her wars. As these wars became farther from Italy, was this too much of a burden for the allies?

2. Did winning foreign wars make the Romans so self-important that they felt they could do what they wanted to the Italians?

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

The Death of Spartacus by Hermann Vogel

Discussion Topics:

1. Why do you think Spartacus didn’t travel north and leave Roman territory?

2. Why did it take so long for the Roman legions to defeat Spartacus?

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

I'm sorry none of the discussion topics deal with Sulla, but I have a hard time talking about him without bringing in Marius, who's dealt with in the next chapter. I hadn't heard much about either of them until I read Colleen McCullough's novel The First Man in Rome. What fascinating characters! She does a really good job of bringing life in Rome "to life", as it were.

by Colleen McCullough

[Michele]

As I make my way though this chapter, I keep thinking "Wow, the wheels really fell off." So much violence and murder. Seems like once it got started with the Social War, there was no stopping it.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

The Social War did seem pretty stupid, particularly since at the end of it the Italians got what they originally wanted, but lots of people died in the meantime. I think I put most of the blame on the stiff-necked Romans.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

I was surprised that Beard says the problem Tiberius Gracchus was trying to solve with his laws - too many small farmers losing their lands because of having to serve for many months in faraway wars - didn't really happen. I had always thought it was true.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Even though T. Gracchus' plan to run for a second term as tribune was the precipitating event in his murder (i.e. "He wants to be king!"), I think his using the fortune from King Attalus to fund the redistribution of land was what really galled the Senate. They were used to having total control of the treasury.

[Michele]

Spartacus, yeah him, I don't know why I was surprised that a lot of ex-soldiers were involved in his rebellion. I wonder if the ex-soldiers who were from Italy might be the reason that he never went north to escape.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

There's so much mythology around Spartacus. I read Fast's Spartacus some years ago and wasn't impressed. His portrayals of Cicero and Crassus were really off.

by Howard Fast

[Michele]

There is a lot of myth around Spartacus. We don't even know his real name (Spartacus was a "show name."). There is some indication that he came from Thrace in N. Greece, but how far would he and his army have to go to escape Rome's rule? And could they really "go home" and not be arrested? Could be more reasons why they never left Italy.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Next week we will be discussing Chapter 7, From Empire to Emperors (pp. 253-296).

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

I think the idea that Spartacus was Thracian comes from his gladiatorial persona, fighting in the Thracian style. I'm guessing we know about him from Plutarch's Crassus. It's amazing how many novels have been written about him, plus there's the recent TV series. I watched the first season - lots of abs.

by Plutarch

[Marianne]

Tiberius Gracchus had warriors' land broken up and given to slaves. He ignored the senate and the tribunals, who were mostly wealthy landowners.

Tiberius asked if soldiers who fought for Rome were to be rewarded for their bravery by having their land taken away? He later put it to the Roman people, many of the men who fought Rome’s wars ‘are called masters of the world but have not a patch of earth to call their own’. To him, that was not fair. (p222)

The last time this sense of fairness between different classes of people became an issue was during the “Conflict of the Orders” in the 4th century, 400 years earlier. The conflict between the patricians and the plebeians represented the first working class movement between the workers and the “elite patrician citizens.” (p1465-147). This conflict is the template for the working class movements of the 19th and 20th centuries.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Marianne, I'm pretty sure you're wrong that land was given to slaves. It was meant for former legionaries whose land had been taken away because they weren't able to keep it up, as they were away fighting in Rome's wars. He did indeed usurp the authority of the Senate.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

The week 7 thread is open. Chapter 7 covers the Gaius Marius and the first triumvirate - Crassus, Pompey and Caesar.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...--