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The Blithedale Romance
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Blithedale Romance > Blithedale Romance - Preface through Ch. 7

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Thomas | 5019 comments Hawthorne begins with a disclaimer in the Preface: this novel does not pretend to illustrate a theory or elicit a conclusion with respect to socialism, and the Brook Farm experiment is incidental to his concern. It is merely a setting. Can we take him at his word?

He says his concern with the Socialist Community is merely to establish a theater, "where the creatures of his brain may play their phantasmagorical antics." He describes his experience at Brook Farm as "essentially a daydream -- and yet a fact -- and thus offering an available foothold between fiction and reality."

There is a lot of mystery in the first few chapters. It begins with Coverdale returning from an exhibition of the Veiled Lady, whoever that might be, and when Coverdale arrives at Blithedale we meet Zenobia, whom he calls at one point "a sister of the Veiled Lady," and then Priscilla, who arrives without a surname and has secrets.

Is this typical of "Romance," or is Hawthorne just setting the scene?


Hollyinnnv | 60 comments I also noticed a lot of things that were hidden or covered in the first three chapters (as far as I've read). I copied some of the instances.

"Veil-It was white, with somewhat of a subdued silver sheen, like the sunny side of a cloud; and, falling over the wearer from head to foot, was supposed to insulate her from the material world, from time and space, and to endow her with many of the privileges of a disembodied spirit"

"knew the pale, elderly face, with the red-tipt nose, and the patch over one eye;”

“only revealing enough of himself to make me recognize him as an acquaintance.”

"Zenobia, by the bye, as I suppose you know, is merely her public relations name; a sort of mask in which she comes before the world”

“plunged into the heart of the pitiless snowstorm, in quest of a better life.” (Here I felt like the snow covered everything and that this was significant.)

Mr. Coverdale

In addition to the covering/veiled/hidden element, there is also mention of spirits. I guess this makes sense as spirits are covered by mortal bodies.

But it's still early in the story for me to make any comments on socialism, I think. I'll be on the lookout for that theme.
Holly


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Everyman | 7718 comments In addition to the mysteries that Thomas and Hollyinnv have mentioned, there's the mystery of what "very great favor" Mr. Moodie wanted Coverdale to undertake.

And, what was the "response [by the Veiled Lady to his question on the success of the Blithedale enterprise] of the true Sibylline stamp,—nonsensical in its first aspect, yet on closer study unfolding a variety of interpretations"?

My main feeling as I read these first seven chapters was of walking on very slippery ice, never being quite secure in my footing, slip-sliding about and not seeming to have much control over what I was reading.


message 4: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 7718 comments But contrasted with the mysteries noted already, there is also the contrasting comfort/solidity/security of that first evening at the farm.

"The pleasant firelight! I must still keep harping on it. ...it was fortunate for us, on that wintry eve of our untried life, to enjoy the warm and radiant luxury of a somewhat too abundant fire. If it served no other purpose, it made the men look so full of youth, warm blood, and hope, and the women—such of them, at least, as were anywise convertible by its magic—so very beautiful, ...we people of superior cultivation and refinement (for as such, I presume, we unhesitatingly reckoned ourselves) felt as if something were already accomplished towards the millennium of love. "


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Everyman | 7718 comments And yet another unmentioned so far mystery: who is Priscilla no-last-name-given, who is the "old man who brought her to" Hollingsworth's lodgings (Mr. Moodie possibly??), and why has she come to Blithedale when apparently nobody there has any idea who she is (and she remained "always an object of peculiar interest, a riddle, and a theme of frequent discussion,"


Hollyinnnv | 60 comments Hmm-I was also thinking the farm was solid until I heard that it would require so much work from the "newbie farmers" who seemed to have very little idea of the work that was required. Maybe its solidity is just a mask at first, luring these utopian dreamers.


message 7: by David (last edited Mar 30, 2017 06:16AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

David | 3280 comments Blithedale Romance
One dictionary's definition of blithe is a casual and cheeful indifference considered to be callous or improper. The singlular appearance of the word blithe seems to be in line with this notion:
Sometimes, encountering a traveller, we shouted a friendly greeting; and he, unmuffling his ears to the bluster and the snow-spray, and listening eagerly, appeared to think our courtesy worth less than the trouble which it cost him. The churl! He understood the shrill whistle of the blast, but had no intelligence for our blithe tones of brotherhood. This lack of faith in our cordial sympathy, on the traveller's part, was one among the innumerable tokens how difficult a task we had in hand for the reformation of the world.
I get the sense that the blithe attitude as it is both held and delivered with a romantic insincerity that is grudgingly underappreciated. With all the talk of masks above, the blithe attitude seems to be yet another one of casual cheerfulness possibly veiling some underlying callous impropriety.


David | 3280 comments Blithedale Romance:
Dale is defined as an open valley, especially a broad one in an area of low hills. It seems to me it could represent a low spot, or a low point in ones' life, or even a depression. Coverdale does not seem shy about foreshadowing the melancholy outlook of events both at the time, and in recollection.


David | 3280 comments Blithedale Romance:
Romance: to invent or indulge in fanciful or extravagant stories or daydreams. As blithe and low as events may bet, he does seem to indulge himself in a romantic outlook of the events both at the time and in his recollection. He even paints himself as a hero:
The greatest obstacle to being heroic is the doubt whether one may not be going to prove one's self a fool; the truest heroism is to resist the doubt; and the profoundest wisdom to know when it ought to be resisted, and when to be obeyed.
He defends his participation in events even further:
Yet, after all, let us acknowledge it wiser, if not more sagacious, to follow out one's daydream to its natural consummation, although, if the vision have been worth the having, it is certain never to be consummated otherwise than by a failure. And what of that? Its airiest fragments, impalpable as they may be, will possess a value that lurks not in the most ponderous realities of any practicable scheme. They are not the rubbish of the mind. Whatever else I may repent of, therefore, let it be reckoned neither among my sins nor follies that I once had faith and force enough to form generous hopes of the world's destiny—yes!—and to do what in me lay for their accomplishment
Romanticizing the events, which are clearly becoming an ordeal, seems yet another mask along with the cheerful yet callous and improper indifference to cover and somehow salvage a mistake; a low point in Coverdale's, and perhaps the author's life.


Hollyinnnv | 60 comments Interested in the historical character of Zenobia? This seems to be a good website.
http://www.ancient.eu/zenobia/


message 11: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 7718 comments Hollyinnnv wrote: "Interested in the historical character of Zenobia? This seems to be a good website.
http://www.ancient.eu/zenobia/"


One wonders, then, why she took on this name, and if that's the historical character she was basing her choice on.


message 12: by Lily (last edited Mar 29, 2017 08:42PM) (new) - added it

Lily (joy1) | 5241 comments I deeply enjoyed the language -- the sentences and the phrases and the words in the first chapters. How the narrator moves between memory and present, especially with the images of fire, embers, heat, decay, .... The time shifts accomplished with these figures of speech absolutely fascinated me -- was I reading a recollection, with all the insights recollection provides, or was I transported into the present tense of the story itself? I loved the movement between the two, including the (dark) foreshadowing made possible. This is not a story being told solely with a linear time sequence.


message 13: by Aleph (new)

Aleph | 50 comments Romance as genre leans toward pastoral and exotic setting. Begin with exit from cityfied living. Introduce characters, beginning with first-person narrator Miles Coverdale. Everything will come through his eyes – unless some tricky rupture of viewpoint follows. "Twelve or fifteen years ago" sets the span of looking backward. There are elegiac touches. In same chapter I, first glimpse pseudonymous Zenobia. "We made a summer of it" (II) contrasts with "frosty bachelor" and indicates season and duration of events to be recounted. Passing mention is made of absent Hollingsworth. Chapter III is owned by the femininity of Zenobia and the rusticity of farmer Silas Foster. Chapters IV-V present overbearing (pun) philanthropist Hollingsworth and waifish Priscilla. Toss in some gothic chiaroscuro. Coverdale's illness and convalescence in VI-VII occasions elaboration of personalities and relationships. Thus the narrative is launched with focus on two men and two women. What expectations follow from that? "Frosty bachelor" precludes certain developments. The convolute and self-conscious nature of the narrator's recounting reinforce the distancing specified by announced passage of time. So the exoticism is not only a matter of place.


Tamara Agha-Jaffar | 2311 comments A motley crew of characters. The four of them come together at Blithedale and yet not one of them shows a genuine interest in the social experiment.

Hollingsworth, according to our narrator, “was never really interested in our socialist scheme,” his mind preoccupied with his plan for reforming criminals. The waif-like Priscilla has apparently come for the sole purpose of groveling at Zenobia’s feet. Zenobia is clothed in mystery, “a sister to the veiled lady.” And our narrator who “delights” in hearing his own verses, seems more preoccupied with ogling at and unraveling the enigma that is Zenobia than with participating in the promise of Blithedale.

In some ways, the truth is veiled with all four characters. They don’t come across as sincere or forthright. It’s as if each is playing a role, acting a part, hiding behind a mask, harboring a secret. Our narrator makes it his business to “unmask” the three. The irony is that he, too, is unmasked. He reveals more of his unsavory character than he is aware. My dislike/distrust of him increased exponentially when they all sat together for their first meal. Seeing Silas, his wife, and the two maids seated at the table with him, our narrator refers to himself as having "superior cultivation and refinement."

I like Silas. Solid, sturdy Silas Foster. He serves as a foil for the foursome. There is nothing mysterious or hidden about him. What you see is what you get. He comes in from laboring in the field and speaks to them “as if he were speaking to his oxen.” (I just love that.) They wax eloquent with their visionary schemes. He plunks them back to earth with his focus on the practical:

Which man among you," quoth he, "is the best judge of swine? Some of us must go to the next Brighton fair, and buy half a dozen pigs.

He gulps his tea, helps himself to slices of ham and bread with a zest that has little concern for proper table etiquette—much to the chagrin of our narrator who describes him as

...perpetrating terrible enormities with the butter-plate; and in all other respects behaving less like a civilized Christian than the worst kind of an ogre.

But Silas is unfazed by proper table manners just as he is unfazed by Priscilla’s theatrical, drama-queen entrance. He offers practical advice:

Give the girl a hot cup of tea and a thick slice of this first-rate bacon," said Silas, like a sensible man as he was. "That's what she wants. Let her stay with us as long as she likes, and help in the kitchen, and take the cow-breath at milking time; and, in a week or two, she'll begin to look like a creature of this world.

In the midst of the secrecy and fakery that enshroud our foursome, we have Silas. Solid, straightforward, practical, feet-on-the-ground Silas. He reminds me of Gerasim in The Death of Ivan Ilych. Honest. Hard-working. Laborer. Dirt under his fingernails, mud on his boots.

What’s not to like?


Roger Burk | 1969 comments I felt I knew where the story was going when the party departed on their journey to Blithedale, and observed the fresh and pure coating of snow, which quickly got imprinted with the rough worn soles of workboots. Thus idealism gets imprinted by reality. Sure, the disintegration of an absurd utopian community is just a setting for Hawthorne's character-based story, but it says something that he chose such a setting.


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Everyman | 7718 comments Tamara wrote: "I like Silas. Solid, sturdy Silas Foster. He serves as a foil for the foursome. There is nothing mysterious or hidden about him."

Nice comment. Yes, Silas is a great contrast to the utopians who have this concept of the ideal community (or at least one or two of them do, and presumably there are others, whether or not we will meet them in future) but no pragmatic knowledge of experience of how to pull it off.

It reminds me of the passage from T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men:

Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow

And surely there is a shadow hovering around that dinner table the first night. How it will reveal itself will, perhaps, emerge in future chapters.


Tamara Agha-Jaffar | 2311 comments Everyman wrote: "It reminds me of the passage from T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men:

Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow..."


I love the connection you made. This is one of my favorite poems. Thank you.


Hollyinnnv | 60 comments "So the exoticism is not only a matter of place. "

Aleph-I'd be interested in more of your thoughts on this and how you see it in the work. Usually exoticism relates to faraway countries, but you are taking the definition in a different manner, and I'd love to hear more.
Holly


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Emma (keeperofthearchives) | 0 comments I have to ask if anyone else is finding this funny? I wondered if our narrator's commentary was tongue in cheek? Or simply a reflection of his overdamatisation? In any case, his musings are making me laugh. Probably the dichotomy between his idea of himself and the actuality.

My favourite example:

Coverdale: 'These ruddy window panes cannot fail to cheer the hearts of of all that look at them. Are they not warm with the beacon-fire which we have kindled for humanity?'

'The blaze of the brushwood will only last a minute or two longer,' observed Silas Foster; but whether he meant to insinuate that our moral illumination would have as brief a term, I cannot say.

It's simply perfect as a representation of reality vs idealism, both in the characters and the language. Foster is exactly the kind of practical man who could potentially live in this socialist, naturalist world, while the lofty, airy idealism of Coverdale fails rather rapidly when faced with any hardship.


Tamara Agha-Jaffar | 2311 comments Emma wrote: "I have to ask if anyone else is finding this funny? I wondered if our narrator's commentary was tongue in cheek? Or simply a reflection of his overdamatisation? In any case, his musings are making ..."

Emma,
I can see the humor now that you have drawn attention to it. When I first read it, though, I found Coverdale's propensity for clothing the prosaic in lofty, idealistic language very tiresome.
Give me the down-to-earth language of Silas any time.


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Everyman | 7718 comments Emma wrote: "I wondered if our narrator's commentary was tongue in cheek? ...
Coverdale: 'These ruddy window panes cannot fail to cheer the hearts of of all that look at them. Are they not warm with the beacon-fire which we have kindled for humanity?"


I thought he meant it quite sincerely. It's a combination of the idealism of the project (beacon fire kindled for humanity) and the observation of the moment (ruddy window panes). I thought he really meant it seriously.

Don't forget, he's a poet, so he would think in terms of taking a specific reality (the window panes) and developing it into a wider meaning. Is that what poets of the time did much of the time?


Tamara Agha-Jaffar | 2311 comments Everyman wrote: "I thought he meant it quite sincerely. It's a combination of the idealism of the project (beacon fire kindled for humanity) and the observation of the moment (ruddy window panes). I thought he really meant it seriously..."

Yes, but doesn't he sound pretentious?

Hawthorne follows Coverdale's lofty sentiment with Silas' practical reminder that the blaze of brushwood "will only last a minute or two longer."

Doesn't that suggest that Hawthorne is knocking Coverdale down a peg or two? Perhaps even ridiculing him?


Roger Burk | 1969 comments Someone who really talked like Coverdale would be insufferably tiresome.


Roger Burk | 1969 comments Notice how soon after he meets Zenobia he starts to imagine her naked, then a little while later takes the opportunity to tell her that they will be required to commit some great sin? I think I know what he has in mind, even if he doesn't.


message 25: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 7718 comments Tamara wrote: "Doesn't that suggest that Hawthorne is knocking Coverdale down a peg or two? Perhaps even ridiculing him? "

I'm not sure it's ridiculing. Unless it's self-ridicule; after all, Hawthorne was one of the first residents of Brook Farm, so it would seem that he might -- might -- be modeling Coverdale on himself.

I think what he's doing is emphasizing the effete/intellectual/poetic approach to Blithedale against the pragmatic/working man approach of Silas. I think he belabors the point more than he needs to, but he might know his audience (American readers in 1852, who might not have been the most sophisticated readers) so feels he needs to hammer the point home.

Just speculation, of course. But if he meant it humorously, he fooled Henry James, who called it "the lightest, the brightest, the liveliest" of Hawthorne's "unhumorous fictions."


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Everyman | 7718 comments Roger wrote: "Notice how soon after he meets Zenobia he starts to imagine her naked, then a little while later takes the opportunity to tell her that they will be required to commit some great sin? I think I kno..."

Do you really think he doesn't?


message 27: by Sue (last edited Mar 30, 2017 08:28PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sue Pit (cybee) | 329 comments I do wonder about whom Mr. Moodie is (fully in accord with the theme of "covered/hidden" as discussed earlier : "the old fellow's way of standing under the arch of a gate, only revealing enough of himself....he was a very shy personage...") and I do think he has something to do with Priscilla and knowing Priscilla's real or perceived connection to Zenobia, Mr. Moodie was preparing to ask Coverdale to transport Priscilla to Blithedale. But of course, Coverdale appeared quite pressed for time and thus the idea was aborted and instead it was the mentioned Mr. Hollingsworth who leaving later, took Priscilla to Blithdale. Is Priscilla a relation to Zenobia but then why the cold reaction of Zenobia or at least nonrecognition by Zenobia as to her. But the fact that Mr. Moodie being of singular hidden nature does accord with Priscilla's appearance of "habitual seclusion", further suggesting their mutual connection.


Thomas | 5019 comments Coverdale is writing about himself and his Blithedale experience from a vantage point in the future, so I wonder at times if he isn't mocking himself and his youthful pursuits, his "minor poet" past. The younger Coverdale is serious but the older one, the one who is writing the story, sees his younger self in the light of experience. I think that explains the tone of superiority, and perhaps the note of humor in his voice. The older man knows the younger man very well.


message 29: by Aleph (last edited Mar 30, 2017 09:09PM) (new)

Aleph | 50 comments Holly – A primary feature of exoticism is remoteness. Most common is to think of the exotic as a function of place. As Melville starts out with Typee and Omoo and Mardi. But the remoteness can also be a function of time. (My own half-century-ago-plus youth now seems remarkably exotic.) In Blithedale the two reverberate together. See first two paragraphs of Chapter II for concentrated temporal exoticism culminating in Eden.


message 30: by Aleph (new)

Aleph | 50 comments Humor and disparity. The nuclei that energize satire. At a deep thematic level, Blithedale feels like the hum and moan of a disillusioned idealism that expected a great deal from communal life, and the selves that committed to working that out as a project. If this matter were not for the most part subordinated to the needs of fiction – though occasionally popping forth as bald statement – the book would amount to one long tedious sermon.


message 31: by David (last edited Mar 30, 2017 09:36PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

David | 3280 comments Aleph wrote: "But the remoteness can also be a function of time. (My own half-century-ago-plus youth now seems remarkably exotic.) In Blithedale the two reverberate together. See first two paragraphs of Chapter II for concentrated temporal exoticism culminating in Eden."

Hawthorn also demonstrates temporal exoticism in the opening paragraphs when he describes clairvoyants of some 12 to 15 years earlier, as exemplified by the Veiled Lady, as being so much more of a special and intriguing attraction than the present times:
she was a phenomenon in the mesmeric line; one of the earliest that had indicated the birth of a new science, or the revival of an old humbug. Since those times her sisterhood have grown too numerous to attract much individual notice; nor, in fact, has any one of them come before the public under such skilfully contrived circumstances of stage effect as those which at once mystified and illuminated the remarkable performances of the lady in question.
In this case he gives some argument as to why this is so. Is this perhaps to make us think he does not view everything from the past with a simple romantic eye?


Chris | 478 comments Everyman wrote: "In addition to the mysteries that Thomas and Hollyinnv have mentioned, there's the mystery of what "very great favor" Mr. Moodie wanted Coverdale to undertake.

And, what was the "response [by the..."


When Priscilla arrived with Mr. Hollingsworth, I surmised that was the very great favor that Mr. Moodie wanted of Coverdale....to bring her. Am I jumping to connclusions?


Chris | 478 comments David wrote: "Blithedale Romance
One dictionary's definition of blithe is a casual and cheeful indifference considered to be callous or improper. The singlular appearance of the word blithe seems to be in line w..."


I also looked up some meanings and I got the impression that the use of Blithe as a casual indifference was a relatively contemporary definition, but in Hawthorne's day it meant cheerful, gay etc. Certainly that would go along with the idea of a utopian or Eden setting. Everyone getting along, equal & happy. Naïve thinking to say the least!


Chris | 478 comments David wrote: "Blithedale Romance:
Romance: to invent or indulge in fanciful or extravagant stories or daydreams. As blithe and low as events may bet, he does seem to indulge himself in a romantic outlook of the ..."


Boy, that wouldn't be my definition of romance, but certainly fits here. Another word I had to look up was "phantasmagorical", because for some reason I associated it with horrific apparitions. The definition that came up was a rapid sequence of images, or a dream.


Chris | 478 comments Lily wrote: "I deeply enjoyed the language -- the sentences and the phrases and the words in the first chapters. How the narrator moves between memory and present, especially with the images of fire, embers, he..."

Me too. Enjoying this writing a lot more than when I read The House of the Seven Gables !


message 36: by Emma (last edited Mar 31, 2017 07:49AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Emma (keeperofthearchives) | 0 comments Everyman wrote: "Emma wrote: "I wondered if our narrator's commentary was tongue in cheek? ...
Coverdale: 'These ruddy window panes cannot fail to cheer the hearts of of all that look at them. Are they not warm wit..."


That could well be the case, I can certainly see him being genuinely idealistic and overdramatic. Perhaps the immediate deflating of lots of his statements by himself or another character must be Hawthorne making a point? His lofty imaginings rarely get to go on too long before being neutralised. It's amused me throughout.

Interesting that James called it 'unhumorous'. I'm wondering whether it's my modern and very unromantic sensibilities that are upping the humour aspect? I imagine myself meeting someone who speaks and thinks like Coverdale now and it makes me smile, I would definitely play the bring-them-down-to-earth role Foster does.


message 37: by Emma (new) - rated it 3 stars

Emma (keeperofthearchives) | 0 comments Tamara wrote: "Emma wrote: "I have to ask if anyone else is finding this funny? I wondered if our narrator's commentary was tongue in cheek? Or simply a reflection of his overdamatisation? In any case, his musing..."

They are brilliant together, I doubt either would be as effective alone.


message 38: by Emma (new) - rated it 3 stars

Emma (keeperofthearchives) | 0 comments Tamara wrote: "Everyman wrote: "I thought he meant it quite sincerely. It's a combination of the idealism of the project (beacon fire kindled for humanity) and the observation of the moment (ruddy window panes). ..."

I think you're right, that's what has been making me laugh. Coverdale even does it to himself in parts.


message 39: by Emma (new) - rated it 3 stars

Emma (keeperofthearchives) | 0 comments Thomas wrote: "Coverdale is writing about himself and his Blithedale experience from a vantage point in the future, so I wonder at times if he isn't mocking himself and his youthful pursuits, his "minor poet" pas..."

That fits with the way i've read it, great point.


message 40: by Lily (last edited Mar 31, 2017 08:43AM) (new) - added it

Lily (joy1) | 5241 comments Chris wrote: "Me too. Enjoying this writing a lot more than when I read The House of the Seven Gables ! ..."

I haven't tried THotSG again, but almost twenty years ago now my f2f book club read The Scarlet Letter together. Somehow, that experience opened me up to Hawthorne as other than just the sermonizing legate of puritan New England that my teenage mind had caricatured him.


Clarissa (clariann) | 215 comments What has struck me most in this opening section is how little of the ideology and what brought these people together is put forward. Outside the preface, there is little sense of any political or ideological purpose, they seem to me like random individuals that could be gathering anywhere for any reason. Silas' practical suggestions seem to offend the narrator, and the only sense we have of how things are progressing while he is ill, is that Zenobia is not very good at making gruel!
The narrator's interest is focused on the women, their backgrounds, their sexualities, their relationship with each other, their relationship with him, their roles, far more than this great social experiment he is on the brink of.
So at the start of this novel, I'm curious whether Blithedale is just a convenient backdrop for a novel of male/female interactions, or is Hawthorne deliberately using an unreliable narrator to represent the sharp contrast between idealism and the real driving goals of being a human?


message 42: by Lily (last edited Mar 31, 2017 04:13PM) (new) - added it

Lily (joy1) | 5241 comments Roger wrote: "Notice how soon after he meets Zenobia he starts to imagine her naked, then a little while later takes the opportunity to tell her that they will be required to commit some great sin? I think I kno..."

I smiled at the note in my Penguin classics edition: "...Probably due to Sophia Hawthorne's prudishness, this sentence ['I almost fancied myself actually beholding it.'] was deleted from the original manuscript."

This is such fun to read across American (U.S.) history when the (alt?) news yesterday erupted with the stories about our VP's (and his wife's?) self restrictions on conduct! I also have been concurrently reading Jonathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion wherein he holds forth that conservatives stand on a six legged platform of morality that includes sanctity and purity as well as care and concern ( and loyalty, respect, liberty, and fairness -- to paraphrase very roughly), whereas liberals tend to focus more on care and concern. I'll not comment here on whether I agree or disagree with that assessment, just that I noticed the continuity of the concerns across the years.

Incidentally, before we finish, we will be called to compare with John Bunyan's "popular allegory of the soul's progress toward salvation."

(Sorry, Goodreads is being funky on handling titles this morning. I'll try to come back and correct later. I did want to indicate with a link. Haven't been able to correct this, despite many attempts and variations.)

It may let me put it here:
The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion


message 43: by Lily (last edited Mar 31, 2017 08:41AM) (new) - added it

Lily (joy1) | 5241 comments @14Tamara wrote: "What's not to like?..."

Agreed. Enjoyed the passages you called out for us, as well as ones pulled by others of us. It just seems to me this work begs for this kind of re-chewing the words (okay, savoring again, -- like tasting for that hidden but almost recognizable spice).


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Lily (joy1) | 5241 comments Aleph wrote: "Humor and disparity. The nuclei that energize satire. ...the book would amount to one long tedious sermon. "

Aren't the humor and satire part of what rescue this from being "one long tedious sermon"? Or maybe it is yet -- a long tedious sermon against any hope of accomplishing an idyllic or paradisaical living arrangement...? As Roger says @15, the boot prints on the pure white snow immediately provide a premonition of where the story is headed. Still, Hawthorne is sustaining suspense on the "how" from here to there. (Did Hawthorne plant a spoiler up front? )


David | 3280 comments Hollyinnnv wrote: "I have to ask if anyone else is finding this funny? I wondered if our narrator's commentary was tongue in cheek? Or simply a reflection of his overdamatisation? "

Emma wrote: "Interesting that James called it 'unhumorous'."

I have the impression that Coverdale is trying to mask his pain or depression (dale) over the matter with humor. Sometimes the poetic or romantic imagery (romance) he creates is so extreme it seems desperate; as if he is trying too hard to make the memories more cheerful (blithe) than the experience actually was. However, similar to what Emma mentioned, it is difficult for me is to know if this impression is correct, or if I am missing something that Hawthorne's contemporary readers would relate more accurately to.


message 46: by Hollyinnnv (last edited Mar 31, 2017 10:27AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Hollyinnnv | 60 comments Aleph wrote: "Holly – A primary feature of exoticism is remoteness. Most common is to think of the exotic as a function of place. As Melville starts out with Typee and Omoo and Mardi. But the remoteness can also..."
I like this Idea Aleph. I'm currently writing about the 18th c English picaro and how his/her desires change with age. I would suspect that someone like Moll Flanders would find her young self exotic. However, I wonder if there is another term that would be more specific to a changing self? Hmm


message 47: by Lily (last edited Mar 31, 2017 10:09AM) (new) - added it

Lily (joy1) | 5241 comments Emma wrote: "Interesting that James called it 'unhumorous'. ..."

I'm not so sure James is calling Blithedale "unhumorous" so much as that Hawthorne's novels in general are "unhumorous," with Blithedale a bit of an exception. It often seems to me that James fled to Europe to leave behind what he considered to be an uptight New England legacy, exemplified by Hawthorne. My sense is that it bred an antipathy, especially when one considers the pressure James's apparent sexual feelings may have put him under in looking upon his American colleagues and what they wrote. James knew the restrictions society placed on what he dared tackle and how.


message 48: by Rafael (last edited Mar 31, 2017 12:39PM) (new) - added it

Rafael da Silva (morfindel) | 387 comments Lily wrote: "(Sorry, Goodreads is being funky on handling titles this morning. I'll try to come back and correct later. I did want to indicate with a link.)"

The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion by Jonathan Haidt

Here, Lily.


message 49: by Aleph (new)

Aleph | 50 comments This has to be the number one intertextual resonance for the word blithe?

Hail to thee, blithe Spirit!

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/45146


message 50: by Lily (last edited Mar 31, 2017 04:16PM) (new) - added it

Lily (joy1) | 5241 comments Rafael wrote: "Lily wrote: "(Sorry, Goodreads is being funky on handling titles this morning. I'll try to come back and correct later. I did want to indicate with a link.)"

[book:The Righteous Mind: Why Good Peo..."


Thanks, Rafael. I still am stumped as to what editing quirk I ran into. I tried all sorts of things, and adding it at the end is a copy of what I have in the text! Asked the librarians, but they had no answer....

(I've debugged enough computer stuff in my life that this irked me. Gotta let it go, I guess. Okay, I found it. Had an unmatched pair of closing brackets in the previous paragraph. Long sigh....)


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