The Price of Spring

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "Laura wrote: "



She is definitely bent on r..."

I think skipping that step may have been his worst mistake.

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Laura wrote: "Chapter 16
."

(view spoiler)[
I was never disagreeing with you that many would welcome it however the hate and greed still exist like the real world. Picture this being Iran and the US. You would have people trying to find a way to profit from it, people with so much hatred they'll do anything to block it and those who want warmth in their life. I think DA nailed this. I know you don't like the bad parts but the reality is the real world mirrors it.
(hide spoiler)]

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Laura wrote: "I think skipping that step may have been his worst mistake.."

Agreed.

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "Laura wrote: "Chapter 16
."

I do agree with you Scott and you are perfectly right. DA really nailed it. It's just that I am an idealist and would like a world where people are kind and understanding and where those who dream about a little bit of warmth get it in the end. If a mistake was made, I am the kind who wants forgiveness, a clean slate and understanding and a common effort to fix what had gone wrong. I know it is a fool's dream and I know that it can never be because of our human nature. Yet still, I cannot help but wish for it. And I cannot help thinking that if there were a few (ok - a hell lot) more people thinking like me, the world would be a better place.
And even though it makes me really sad I have to admit you are yet again right when saying the real world mirrors DA's story.

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Laura wrote: "Through Chapter 17

This book makes me so angry and sad and sick at the same time! ."

I agree with your spoilers.

(view spoiler)[
I think Maati feels he's a victim of circumstances and isn't willing to own up to his mistakes. He blames Otah and thinks he's lived the bless life. There so many people like that.
(hide spoiler)]

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Laura wrote: "I do agree with you Scott and you are perfectly right. DA really nailed it. It's just that I am an idealist and would like a world where people are kind a..."

(view spoiler)[
I guess for me I try to put myself in their shoes. If they butchered my family in front of me I have a hard time believing I'd be turning the other cheek. Now would I blind an entire country for the sins of the few? I'd like to think not but grief is very powerful. If somebody hurt one of my daughters there's very little I wouldn't be capable of in terms of revenge to the individual. Imagine being a victim of 911. (hide spoiler)]

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

I'm through chapter 19.

(view spoiler)[
This is setting up for an epic convergence at the end. There's so many balls in the air between Maati's group and potential betrayal there, Otah's group and last but not least Idaan.
(hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "Laura wrote: "Through Chapter 17

This book makes me so angry and sad and sick at the same time! ."

I agree with your spoilers.


I think Maati feels he's a victim of circumstances and isn't will..."

very true

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "Laura wrote: "I do agree with you Scott and you are perfectly right. DA really nailed it. It's just that I am an idealist and would like a world where people are kind a..."


I guess for me I try t..."

(view spoiler)[I wouldn't turn the other cheek either in that case. That's a given. Regardless of how idealistic I am. It's just that I have seen so much of suffering and injustice till now in my life that I'd like to believe I wouldn't be able to punish the children for the sins of their parents. For then I would be just the same as those who wronged me in the first place. Or maybe worse. But if I have to really think about it, I may have been able to do it too a few years back, before life thought me to be humble.
DA makes you think a lot about life in general, about human nature and about your own self with this quartet. And I think the debates on the issues at hand could be endless. I also love it that you're honest and true to your beliefs while openly acknowledging the darker side of human nature, your own included. Something that most people would right out ignore or even deny up to the moment of truth. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "I'm through chapter 19.


I agree. And I think this may be even better than his last book.

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Laura wrote: "."

(view spoiler)[
I think that's exactly it for me. Knowing what real grief and injustice are I now what that pain will cause a person to feel and thus do. I think in time people chose one of two paths from it. One of anger and hate and the other of compassion. As the song goes there's still time to change the road you're on but the further along the harder it is.
(hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "Laura wrote: "."


I think that's exactly it for me.

I don't think I could have said it any better! And I wholeheartedly agree.

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Through 22

(view spoiler)[
Some really poignant chapters. The humanizing of Idaan with the baby sheep was amazing. I find when an author can make us empathize for a character as flawed as she is that it's a gift.

Vanjit likewise is such a broken character yet I feel for how broken she is and how she got that way. I also agree that putting her down is a mercy. Her cruelty towards the blind Galts, guilty as they may have been for selling brides, was chilling. I think in hot anger it's one thing but in cold calculation it's another. Compassion has been burnt from her soul at this point.

Much like Otah if it came down to my daughter or the world the world would have to take it's chances. The scene of telling Ana stories about Otah's wife and Danat's mother especially since it was precipitated by Idaan was touching.
(hide spoiler)]

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Also through 22

(view spoiler)[
There's so much going on you forget it all when posting until you reflect.......Maati FINALLY coming to the realizations or at least finally admitting them to himself that he has royally screwed the pooch. That the preventative measures were in place for a reason. He's given a monster the power of the Andat which is so appropriate for today's society and some of the world leaders.
(hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "Also through 22


That's exactly what I was thinking when I got to that point!

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Laura wrote: "Scott wrote: "Also through 22


That's exactly what I was thinking when I got to that point!"

Great minds, that. :)

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "Through 22


(view spoiler)[Idaan has changed a lot and I think she regretted killing her father and brothers every day since she did it. DA made a beautiful character.
As for Vanjit, I think her spirit has been profoundly damaged by the horrors she went through and the influence of the Andat was enough to push her over the brink. My bet would be she is fully mad by now, not just by half measures. And I am sure she'll have to die as I don't really see her regretting or recognising her mistakes. It was very cruel to blind even the women who had been her friends, one of them simply because she left the group so I am convinced she won't shy away from blinding the whole world given the chance.
I had a little bit of doubt there with Otah at one point, thinking that he truly intended to kill Eiah. So relieved he took a stand now and is on the right path again. Family is family no matter what - one should never give up on family.
The relationships developing between the main characters are wonderful and even I enjoy the touching scenes of memories shared, small touches or gestures to show care, love and understanding. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "Laura wrote: "Scott wrote: "Also through 22


That's exactly what I was thinking when I got to that point!"

Great minds, that. :)"

:)

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Some amazing stuff in 23

(view spoiler)[
The dialogue between Idaan, Otah and Danat on forgiveness ending in

“So you won’t end them and you won’t forgive them,” Idaan said. “You want the world saved, but you don’t know what that means any longer. There isn’t much time to clear your mind, brother. And you can’t put your thoughts in line when you’re half-sunk in rage.”


Phenomenal scene.

Both funny and poignant.

“I didn’t say that,” Idaan said. “I said it was what I would do. My judgment on those matters is…occasionally suspect.”

But then this was sad and telling


“I think that’s the nearest you’ve ever come to apologizing,” he said.

“To you, perhaps,” Idaan said. “I spent years talking to the dead about it. They didn’t have much to say back.”

“Do you miss them?”

“Yes,” Idaan said without hesitation. “I do.”

This for me was the saddest of all


And in truth, death wasn’t the curse he’d set out to break. All his work and sacrifice had been only so that they could balance the constant withering of age with some measure of renewal. He thought of his own children: Eiah, Danat, and even long-dead Nayiit. They had each of them been wagers he’d placed against a cruel world. A child comes into the world, and its father holds it close and thinks, If all goes as it should, I will die first. This one, I can love and never mourn for. That was all he wanted to leave for Danat and Eiah. The chance of knowing a love that they would never be called to bury. It was the world as it was intended to be.


I'm glad he finally recognized Nayiit and that pain along with the unfairness of the world to put things out of sequence. I don't think anybody realizes when they have children the things that only happen to others.
(hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "Some amazing stuff in 23


The dialogue between Idaan, Otah and Danat on forgiveness ending in

(view spoiler)[This chapter was impressive. Idaan hit the nail straight on the head. And I felt so sorry for her, for her regret and sorrow, as well as for Otah and his dilemma. Humans in general I think have a tendency of not acknowledging shitty stuff unless it happens to them. There was so much pain all around here. For almost everybody in their little group, and DA describes it in such a way that you cannot help but feel with them. It's brilliant!
The conversation between Otah and the guard when they reached the shelter also moved me - it was funny and touching at the same time to see the mere guard care so much for his emperor and Otah trying to pacify him. It's these small details also that turn the story into a masterpiece. (hide spoiler)]

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Laura wrote: "Humans in general I think have a tendency of not acknowledging shitty stuff unless it happens to them."

Too true but I will say, and I'm not sure if this is as true in other countries, but there's also the cult of personality. A person will hear somebody in their town passed and it's a cursory sadness but yet when somebody of fame or stature pass people will act like it's was somebody close to them, as if they knew the intimately. A child who died in the Tsunami no less important than Lady Di.

[Laura]

You get that a lot here in India. Thousands die because of floods or other natural disasters but people gather together to mourne and cry for a prime minister who may not even mean anything to them personally. The death of a family member and that of a political figure may be quite the same here. I thought it was less in other countries.

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

I thought the same regarding other countries not being hung up on this in the same way.

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Chapter 24

(view spoiler)[
Brilliant touch having Vanjiit figure out the poison with her enhanced eyesight. At this point I really would be fearing she's just going to blind the world. Maati should have let Eiah bind the Andat secretly before this spiraled out of control. Interesting that now he's finally willing to swallow his pride and ask Otah for help.
(hide spoiler)]

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

I'm done.

(view spoiler)[
It pretty much ended as well as it could. Vajiit blinding everything in the world was terrifying. Otah's letters to his wife were very sad especially in the context of his son reading them. A book of redemption for Idaan. So many emotions.
(hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "Chapter 24


Brilliant touch having Vanjiit
I agree but (view spoiler)[I think Vanjit already suspected about the treachery as she came out of the tent with Eiah's satchel of notes on the binding that were scribbled to read them while blind. That scene was intense. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "I'm done.


Also done. Pretty much couldn't put it down yesterday evening.

(view spoiler)[I liked the end too and don't really think it could have been better. I was expecting Vanjit to blind if not the whole world, then at least the Khaiem. But I was not expecting her to hit Maati and go so mad. I liked it that Eiah released Wounded after all the wrongs of the other Andat were made right and that Danat and Ana got to marry finally in a world where both the empires wouldn't have wanted the union anymore once the sterility and blindness were removed. Traditional love uniting 2 nations when the power of Gods were not able to was a nice touch. And Idaan was wonderful, just as Ana. Lots of emotions! And I loved it. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

It was a wonderful buddy read Scott. Thank you.

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Laura wrote: "It was a wonderful buddy read Scott. Thank you."

Agreed. Our conversations were very thought provoking and without pretense.

(view spoiler)[
I knew she was going to start blinding people but when she started in on animals that was a bit shocking a good modern warfare metaphor.

I saw Eiah releasing the Andat ahead of time but agree that was the way to end it. How many people could actually do that? I did like using the threat of the Andat to rebuild and again the real world tie-ins.
(hide spoiler)]

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

BTW

(view spoiler)[
The one thing I wanted at the end was for Balisar to say something about Otah much like Idaan said well done brother. I thought coming from where they started and the fact that Otah kept faith with their original agree, if with a little help from Eiah, that it would have given it some symmetry. Such a small quibble in a great series but I did think it.
(hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "BTW


Sorry for the delay. I didn't check the thread. I agree with you.
(view spoiler)[The last scene between Balisar and Otah was touching and it would have been nice to have a little thank you.
But then again, given the whole tone of the book, I think DA didn't mean for Otah to receive any thank you. After all, he did kill the poet in the first book to protect Galt and instead of gratitude he got only shit from everybody.
Do bad and you will face the consequences; try to do good and it may turn out bad and again face the consequences and then fix what you broke but get no thanks, just peace of mind (because the fixing was expected from you anyway). At least this is the main idea i got from all of it. (hide spoiler)]