The Diary of a Young Girl
discussion
Anyone else hate this Diary
To hate to this book,there must be a reason. unfortunately i cant see any particulate reason for that. Ann's diary is the most outstanding,great,and heart touching book. after all its not a fiction.its talk about the real truth, that she and her whole family had faced.I rally poor to understand y u hate this book?Tc..
Tytti wrote: "Again, this isn't a novel, it's not made up, it happened for real. Even a child should understand that. How would a "teen attitude" change that?"Maybe you could appreciate it more? 20 years ago I did not care about war or terrorism. Only when I experienced life a little more, I was able to start appreciating things, I did not give a shit about earlier.
I've read over your last couple of posts a few times and I am afraid I just don't understand whatt you are getting at. As you grow, your points of view change with you. I (29) am a completely different person than I was was with 20. As a kid I was yet different.
And every one of my "selves" would have different ideas about this diary.
Daniel wrote: "Maybe you could appreciate it more? 20 years ago I did not care about war or terrorism. "Maybe, but even a child should understand that it's not a novel and therefore not something you can hate like one could hate a fictional novel. That doesn't change over time. (Well maybe if we are talking about some 8- or 9-year-olds but not when we are talking about teenagers.)
Dusty Bibliophile, no problem. I like helping clarify when I can :)It seems to me that this thread has led Anamika to become more willing to hear multiple viewpoints and be open minded. That is only my interpretation based on what she has said.
Also, totally agree with what Daniel said.
Also agree with Tytti that it's important for people to understand reading a diary is not like reading a novel. I still feel like one can dislike, hate, or simply not enjoy a diary much, but it's good to know the point of one is not to entertain, but to tell the history of a person and their life.
Am I understanding you correctly by summarizing you like this: "A person can only hate works of fiction"? Because I would have to disagree. There are many works, historic or social, that are not fictional, but I still do not like them. In one case I even hate it: The author is named Thilo Sarrazin and he is making some pretty racist statements.
Mein Kampf would be another example of a book that is not fiction but everyone has a right to hate.
Daniel wrote: "Mein Kampf would be another example of a book that is not fiction but everyone has a right to hate."So everything there is in Mein Kampf is true? And in those other books, too? As far as I know, there are many things that are not true in it.
The Diary is a historical document, mainly consists of Anne's thoughts and she, IIRC, didn't attack against anyone. There is no reason to hate it, even if you are a child.
That is not the definition of "Fiction" as a genre. The authors assume that their information is correct, which makes their works Non-Fiction. Otherwise a scientist would in the moment he got disproved have written a work of fiction: Freud, Aristotle etc.
But still, there is no reason to hate it. Or at least you should explain yourself clearly. It's not a novel that you can hate because it's boring or you don't like the characters because they are real people and it's a diary written by a real person. They might have their faults but so does everyone.
Merriam Webster (one of the better known English dictionaries) defines nonfiction as : writing that is about facts or real events
: all writing that is not fiction
It defines fiction as
: written stories about people and events that are not real
: literature that tells stories which are imagined by the writer
Books on personal philosophies, such as Mein Kampf, and works by Freud, Aristotle, etc are classified as nonfiction based on the above definitions.
Tytti wrote: "But still, there is no reason to hate it. Or at least you should explain yourself clearly. It's not a novel that you can hate because it's boring or you don't like the characters because they are..."
Daniel's point is that those other books that he mentioned were also written by real people and they were not written for entertainment, like a novel.
Laura wrote: "Daniel's point is that those other books that he mentioned were also written by real people and they were not written for entertainment, like a novel."So you don't see any differences between Mein Kampf and The Diary?
Well, if you think that Mein Kampf tells the truth, I guess one could argue that you can't hate that, either.
Belle wrote: "Gil wrote: "Belle wrote: "Gil wrote: "Aha - I wondered when you would pop out of the woodwork!"wow. At least im not so obsessive that all i do is come on here and restate my opinion over and over..."
Actually I am profoundly deaf after being caught in a bomb blast several years ago. It does not affect my level of understanding.
I am not on here to pick a fight at all - but I've seen several inconsistencies which I find puzzling. I am a curious person, and like to know what makes people tick, but I cannot figure out Anamika - trying to understand her contradictions is what keeps me coming here. On 19th July she said she would provide information, the next day, about the "research" she's doing, which apparently no-one else knows about. Here we are two days later, and nothing.
I don't believe she has ever read Anne Frank's diary, although she says she has, and has even written a review - that proves nothing; it's quite easy to fabricate a review especially given the information about this particular piece of writing. Nothing she says makes any sense at all. A few of us can see it. Most of you can't.
I agree with you that "hate" is a strong word. But I used to use the word hate a lot. I used to say that I hated types of vegetables. I certainly did not mean that in the same way that I use "hate" today.And not really finding the things described interesting; not being interested in the politics going on in the background; not being interested in the people in the house ... I can understand that.
I mainly found the mood swings fascinating. That is what I was wondering going into the book: How hard is it really; to have no private space for two years? Do you just go at each other's throats? But maybe this sort of thing is not Anamika's cup of tea.
Daniel wrote: "And not really finding the things described interesting; not being interested in the politics going on in the background; not being interested in the people in the house ... I can understand that. "Those are reasons to not like it or to not find it interesting. And she said that she used the word "hate" deliberately. And you can hate vegetables, it's a matter of taste.
I tried reading it and hated it. I don't hate Anne Frank at all. I hated it before I tried to read it. I think I hate it because I don't understand why Anne Frank is so famous for dying during the Holocaust when so many other people died nameless. That frustrates me. Why does she get to be the face of the Holocaust? I just found the diary boring. I don't hate it because of that. I just wasn't interested, as in many other books. Her house didn't particularly catch my interest either. There is nothing, absolutely NOTHING in her house. It is empty. I don't say that because I hate it, it was just a surprise. I am going to read the book soon and this time I will force myself to get through it. Then we will see after that. I think it is just the fame that you hate. You don't hate Anne Frank or her diary, just that she is famous because she died.
...Wow.
...
There is a famous story: Anne Frank put some posters up on a wall in her room. One of them was a poster of Ginger Rodgers in one of her movies. The director of the movie once visited the house after the war, when it was remade as a museum. He saw the picture and was so touched that he started crying.What I want to say with the story is this: There is a lot to see in that house, if you know the story behind it and can relate.
Okay...total honest alert here....this will offend a few but I am being honest....Marit and Anamika seem to hate the diary for similar reasons. Those reasons are: they are immature young people who have not experienced enough of life and the world to understand true suffering. I cringe when I read Marit's post because I think if she reads it in 10 years she will be embarrassed. Yes, many died in the Holocaust, millions in fact. And millions died without someone to tell their tale. So here is a chance to read one of the few accounts we have. Anne Frank died in a prison camp, not as an 85 yr old grandmother of 3 living in Boca Raton, Fl. She died. Young. She paid a price higher than you or I have ever had to pay. That is not boring. That is sad, and real, but not boring.
However, Marit expresses what a lot of young teens feel about things they don't understand.....This is not meant as a criticism of these girls, and I am sure over time and with life experience they will grow to see the world less as "fun" vs "boring". I wish for them a empathy when reading historical pieces to really try to imagine what life must have been like for those they read about. I also hope for a curiosity that allows them to see books not as something their teacher assigned and they therefore "hate" but as a way to see the world through others eyes. I highly recommend you watch a documentary called "The Paper Clip Project", it really shows how a group of teens learned empathy, compassion and understanding for the Holocaust.
I was assuming Marit's post was satirical in nature but now I'm not sure. They rated the diary with one star and have only rated five books as one star.I can't tell if this is Swiftian logic or something else entirely.
Haha! Dusty, I hope too that it was satire. However, instead of Jonathan Swift, I think Marit and Anamika may be more influenced by Taylor Swift.
This thread could qualify for Harper's Index: Number of messages exchanged on a "I haven't read Anne Frank's diary but hate it nonetheless" Goodreads thread: 1380 (so far)
You're missing the point... It's quality, not quantity. The "Existential Chaos" rating of this thread is through the roof!
Kallie wrote: "This thread could qualify for Harper's Index: Number of messages exchanged on a "I haven't read Anne Frank's diary but hate it nonetheless" Goodreads thread: 1380 (so far)"Funny you should say this:
"Percentage who have never heard of the Holocaust : 36"
http://harpers.org/archive/2014/08/ha...
Duane wrote: "You're missing the point... It's quality, not quantity. The "Existenti.al Chaos" rating of this thread is through the roof!"Oh wow. Thanks for setting me straight there. But you are being a little presumptuous, Duane. I can be aware of the thread's absurdity and how well it would fit in Harper's Index, all at the same time.
Dusty Bibliophile wrote: "Kallie wrote: "This thread could qualify for Harper's Index: Number of messages exchanged on a "I haven't read Anne Frank's diary but hate it nonetheless" Goodreads thread: 1380 (so far)"Funny ..."
Thanks for the link; I hadn't read this one yet. It's a lot to take in, isn't it.
I think that both Anamika and Marit yes, "hate" the book for the same reasons, and I kind of understand why. Don't get me wrong- I honestly liked the book- but Anamika and Marit just think that Anne Frank was one of so many have been there at this terrible time in history. Really, the truth is that yes- Anne WAS one of many- but nevertheless, she recorded it during this time. By celebrating her, it does not make the sufferings of any others less, but her diary was one of the few that focused on these events so much, and her situation was a tough thing for a young girl to go through. My point is that maybe Anne just did write a diary, but any diary written in detail of that period in time, and published, would probably be just as famous.
Mary wrote: "Okay...total honest alert here....this will offend a few but I am being honest....Marit and Anamika seem to hate the diary for similar reasons. Those reasons are: they are immature young people who..."Well said again. They hate Anne because she is famous, and all she ever did was die like everybody else. The have missed the whole point.
This book is more than a historical document, is more than a mere work of nonfiction it is as I have said many times a testimonial of a 13 year old victim of the holocaust--therein lies its significance. I hate it because it was written, I hate it because this horrible thing happened. But, to hate this diary or its author, is either a sign of immaturity or prejudice.
And to compare Mein Kampf to the Diary, because they are both nonfiction is like comparing horses to cars because the both move on fours. Mein Kampf was written on purpose and with a clear purpose. The result was hate, destruction and genocide. The Diary, was the journal of a real little girl… with no other intention but to do something while in hiding for their lives.
Julane wrote: "My point is that maybe Anne just did write a diary, but any diary written in detail of that period in time, and published, would probably be just as famous."Not really. There are diaries from that time but they are not that famous, like The Diary of Mary Berg: Growing up in the Warsaw Ghetto.
Tytti wrote: "Julane wrote: "My point is that maybe Anne just did write a diary, but any diary written in detail of that period in time, and published, would probably be just as famous."Not really. There are d..."
Thanks for the recommendation. I've added it to the TBR pile.
The mother of Gene Simmons was in a concentration camp. He was overcome with sorrow when he went to the Anne Frank house. I don't think I am strong enough to go there. I lost relatives in the camps. I don't care at all about Anamika's opinion, but I am glad to see reasonable people responding to her hatred of the diary.
Sharon L. wrote: "Texting or Twitter might be better for you than Goodreads comments, Anamika--you can practically take polls to figure out if people agree with you or not. On Facebook you can get liked or not for ..."I agree with you completely, Sharon. A site like goodreads encourages conversation and evaluation of books. I understand how someone could not like Anne Frank's book, because it can be occasionally boring. I mean, not a lot happens when you're stuck in a freakin attic for two years. But, at one point Anamika says she hates it, although doesn't think it's lame. Hate is a very strong emotion, and if you don't find the book lame, what in the world do you hate about it?
Joanne wrote: "The mother of Gene Simmons was in a concentration camp. He was overcome with sorrow when he went to the Anne Frank house. I don't think I am strong enough to go there. I lost relatives in the camps..."I'm glad you don't care and see no reason why you should. But I find annoying all the indulgence and excuses posted towards this child's spoiled, mean-spirited attitude, which youthfulness does not excuse -- especially when she posts no real responses to people who demonstrate an understandably emotional connection with Anne Frank's book.
*Sigh* There we go again...
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Wholly cow.
Anamika wrote: "I have a question to all,do you know some robot named Amanita?I didn't even know there was a person like that.Since it's a totally different robot,you're going off topic.SO I suggest you to stick t..."I think if you look at message 1327 you will find that you did ask if you could "answer all questions tomorrow" - that being 20th July. Go ahead and deny it, but it's there. Poor girl, I can see you're getting yourself tied up in knots now....
Yes, yes, you're busybusybusy, but tell me - how is anyone supposed to know what you're referring to when your lack of explanation leaves one gasping in frustration.
Give Anamika some slack, guys. She needs a few days to think of a plausible story about the "research" she's supposedly been doing. It's not easy for a girl her age and intelligence to think of something that will sound convincing. I suspect that she's going to come up with "oh it's for school" or something similarly vague and childish.
Mark wrote: "What did you hate about it?"It was really boring it didnt make you at the edge of your seat very very boring.
Jaya wrote: "Mark wrote: "What did you hate about it?"It was really boring it didnt make you at the edge of your seat very very boring."
Jaya, it's not meant to BE anything other than the day to day thoughts of a young girl caught up in events beyond her control; it wasn't exciting to her, in fact it was probably boring most of the time. Maybe even terrifying. But it isn't a work of fiction designed to keep you on the "edge of your seat". It was published after her death to make the world aware of what had happened during the war.
Maybe it would be a good idea to read either some of the posts on this thread, or something about Anne Frank to help you understand it.
Please don't base your opinion of this book on what you think it should be, but on what it represents. And that goes for Anamika and Marit. Thank you.
Gil wrote: Please don't base your opinion of this book on what you think it should be, but on what it represents. I have to disagree on that point. "What it represents" means nothing else than "what others think it means". If Anne Frank represents Oppression, Persecution and so on, that is social agreement. But it does not mean that I have to agree with that. Everyone is allowed to -and as a reader should- form their own opinions.
I even think disliking The Diary of a Young Girl -and saying so to a crowd largely following cultural uniformity- is the stronger stand point.
I even think disliking The Diary of a Young Girl -and saying so to a crowd largely following cultural uniformity- is the stronger stand point. Sure, it takes more courage, or whatever you want to call it, to stand up against the majority. Proclaiming to be a Neo-Nazi also takes some serious courage. As much as I admire a contrarian point of view, it's not always worthy of praise.
EDIT: The comparison to Neo-Nazism is a general observation that a stance isn't worthy of praise simply because it differs from the majority. I am NOT equating disliking a book with being a Neo-Nazi.
The thing I object to about Nazis or Neo-Nazis is that some of them threaten violence, use violence and/or suppose that one heritage is better than another.I do not believe I have read anyone on this topic acting in one of these ways.
Comparing people to Nazis is bad rhetorical style. It's what someone does, when they are out of valid points.
Daniel wrote: "Comparing people to Nazis is bad rhetorical style."Oh, come on, Daniel. You know very well that is not what I did.
The point is that a contrarian stance isn't worth anything in itself. It has to be judged on its argumentative value.
Paul Martin wrote: "Oh, come on, Daniel. You know very well that is not what I did."I see how it's possible that your intention wasn't to compare the people who disliked or hated or whatever this journal to Nazis and Neo-Nazis. However, considering the central subject of the journal, you surely understand how it can come out like that. Especially because other people in this thread did use that issue as a tool to support their arguments. Perhaps it's because the theme of WWII is always in our heads when we discuss this journal; as there are many contrary stances that you could have used as example, and you went for that one. I could see that some people, just like you, didn't really mean to imply that they are N or Neo-N, but others actually did.
Laura wrote: "I could see that some people, just like you, didn't really mean to imply that they are N or Neo-N, but others actually did"They did? Sorry to hear that. Well, I guess I should have used a concept such as pedophilia or homophobia.
LOL! I would stick to non-criminal comparisons if I were you. After all, we're talking about not liking a book.
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Anywho, I was surprised. Thanks for the viewpoint.