The Sword and Laser discussion
Your Fictional Kill List
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John
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Jun 05, 2014 04:41PM
Yeah, there's no way this thread ends well.
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Interesting idea though. I usually think doing fictional lists like this are fun.
If he chooses male characters that annoy him (eragon/Luke) then why should females be immune?I can't think of many I'd want to kill except Jar Jar Binks. Oh and pretty much the entire Iron Islands/Greyjoys storyline which I find a massive waste of paper so far and I pretty much hate all those characters.
Now if you asked who I'd like to slap upside the head a few times....
That's... outrageously harsh. Damn, dude.
I feel like anyone who I really really didn't like in a book eventually got what was coming to them- the best being in The Pillars of the Earth. If a main character bugs me that much, I think I'd just stop reading. And in Wheel of Time, as much as I love it, you have to admit that there were several instances that if the Aes Sedai would have shared a little information amongst themselves it probably could have shaved atleast a book or two off the series.
Michele wrote: "If he chooses male characters that annoy him (eragon/Luke) then why should females be immune?"*Heavenly trumpets ring out across the land.*
Alex wrote: "I take offence with you wanting to kill women (even fictional ones) because they're "bitchy.""Thank you, Alex. I do as well.
Killian wrote: "They are all shallow, bitchy and extremely annoying."All? I'll admit there were a few grating characters but saying 'all' in regards to a series with such a large character pool suggests you weren't really paying attention.
Chrissie wrote: "Killian wrote: "They are all shallow, bitchy and extremely annoying."All? I'll admit there were a few grating characters but saying 'all' in regards to a series with such a large character pool s..."
Well said
Skyler white? Yeah, she did some stuff to hold back Walter, bit I think she was completely justified in everything she did. She was trying to protect yet children, that's it! Why is she on your list?
Alex wrote: "Skyler white? Yeah, she did some stuff to hold back Walter, bit I think she was completely justified in everything she did. She was trying to protect yet children, that's it! Why is she on your list?"Yeah, I never understand the Skyler hate I find in any discussion of Breaking Bad. I always felt sorry for her in the position Walt put her in. Though I see that as a general trend in discussions about T.V. characters, the women always get hated on more than the men. Laurie in Walking Dead, Betty in Mad Men, Carmela Soprano, Skyler White, etc. Even if they do something bad/frustrating, they get dumped on far more than the men in these shows, who hands down do much, much worse things than any of the women do. Just something I've noticed. Anyone else see this, too?
I think the woman hate stems from gender roles. Stereotypically, woman have to be nice and sweet, so when they aren't it seems even worse than a man who does something bad.
I still don't understand the Laurie hate for the Walking Dead.If you want to start killing off Wheel of Time characters for being annoying, I'd suggest you start with Rand Al Thor. He's the most annoying of the whole series. I really came to loathe how he was being written in the last...oh....seven or nine books. It was the women of the story that kept me coming back. Nynaeve and Moiraine and Min were three of my all time favorite characters.
Oh and Birgitte, Aviendha, several of the Wise Women, Cadsuane, Eqwene, Elayne and Siuan Sanche. There were even some of the evil sisters that I really enjoyed their part in the story, Liandrin comes to mind. I didn't' find her annoying at all, just deliriously wicked.
Alex wrote: "Skyler white? Yeah, she did some stuff to hold back Walter, bit I think she was completely justified in everything she did. She was trying to protect yet children, that's it! Why is she on your list?"I agree. Her inclusion took this post from Bad Idea, Dude to List Fail.
Skyler White is awesome. One of if not the best characters of the show.I do get the hate though, on some level. Throughout a large part of the show she was the one inhibiting Walt from being proactive in his "I want to become an awesome evil badass" stuff, and a lot of people were watching the show for the very surface narrative if "ISNT THIS DUDE A BADASS?!" And in general, characters who inhibit protagonists, even if they're villain protagonists, are disliked.
My own kill list:
The involvement if FOX executives in genre television
The involvement of Stephen Moffat in anything
The timeline where HBO rejected American Gods
The sixth season of Community
Bayaz from the First Law series. Not sure I could explain without spoilers.Thomas Covenant from the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever. Just doesn't stop complaining the entire first book which was the only one I read.
Mallick Rel from the Malazan universe. Too sneaky for my tastes.
Kallor from the Malazan universe. Killed one of my favorite characters.
Sansa Stark from Song of Ice and Fire. For her naivete.
Bishop Saldur from Riyria Revelations.
Bill wrote: "Bayaz from the First Law series. Not sure I could explain without spoilers.AGREED - totally.
As for the wheel of time women, I enjoyed some found others grating and annoying, so yes kill Cadsuane! And about 80% of the generic aes sadai. I often found Nynaeve to be annoying, but she redeemed her self is several places. Other than that I liked the main female roles. Rand was annoying alot, thick too, the not killing or allowing women to come to harm was wrung out way too long as one example. I found the middle of the series seemed to stagnate as if losing direction, and they seemed to build up the dark ones magical power (the black blips in the eyes) then take it no where. However the last book was awesome, so well choreographed, and beautifully, inventively writen it redeemed all the long winded boring narative bits where nothing happened in the earlier books.
To my Kill list!!
Jar Jar Binks (twice just to make sure he's dead)
Coronation streets entire cast so I'm no longer forced to watch it with my fiance (add neighbours and eastenders to that list too)
Simon Cole - I hate reality TV & X-Factor etc
The producers of Big Brothers - its dead, it was never that good to begin with, but its now a decomposing turd that needs to be buried
Book wise though (except bayaz) the characters I read that I find annoying all either get whats coming too them or they serve a valid point within the storyline, even if its just to prove someone else is a saint for putting up with them, so all need to stay.
Killian wrote: "Oh, one last thing to the guy who said I didn't pay enough attention when reading the WoT: I haven't read it in a good few months and by this stage I can barely remember most of the characters names. Also, many of the characters (male and female) are completely interchangeable so that doesn't exactly aid my memory. "Firstly, if you can barely even remember their names how can you feel strongly enough to want to kill these characters. Also if you feel that a full 50% of characters are "ruining the book" for you then perhaps you should give up and read something you do enjoy.
Secondly, if you think all the characters are 'interchangable' then yes, you aren't paying attention.
Lastly, I'm not a guy...
Misogyny in video games/books can be a real thing. Considering the killing of video game/book characters to be murder is not.Finding a fictional character - man or woman or alien or kitten - so annoying you wish they would just die already and shut up is just normal. Now if anyone wanted them dead ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE WOMEN, and for no other reason, that would be a problem.
I hate Scrappy Doo and Nermal but that doesn't mean I have issues and need political correctness lessons.
I hated Faile and Perrin, Cadsuane and Egwane, Galahad, Avienda, and Matt's Daughter of the Nine Moons bald chick. Matt was mostly very annoying and Rand often made me want to crawl into the pages and beat him with a baseball bat. In fact I pretty much wish books 6 thru 10 didn't exist. The women were annoying bitches who refused to ever share info, wouldn't listen or compromise, and tried to boss everyone around in incredibly condescending tones. The men were ridiculously stoic and overprotective and boneheaded. The characters were all annoying. I'm not a big fan of WoT obviously, though I did read through to the bitter bloated end. I'd kill off about 1/3 of the characters altogether.
***Anyway, men are allowed to find female characters annoying, hateful, bitchy, evil, stupid, useless. This is a legitimate and normal human response. Just as women are allowed to hate male characters that are jerks.
It's only when the sex itself is what causes the hate that there is a real problem.
I think if you lead with "these are really sexist portrayals of women" people wouldn't have jumped on your back. I mean, let's replace "female characters who exhibit traits misogynists identify with women" another group."I want to kill all the gay people in this series because they're so flamboyant and effeminate!"
It doesn't sound great to the casual reader
I think most people recognize that Arya Stark is just a kid, and despite assassin training, is still very far from being able to rub off the people on her list. I think most people also recognize the similarities to games kids play and vendettas they hold on the playground. These are almost always forgotten, buried in time as children become adults and come to face society realistically. They come to understand that violence will not solve most of their problems, and if you want to benefit from society you have to participate.This topic theme pops up often on YA themed groups on GR. Who would you kill, who would you kiss, etc. These are just childish fantasies that young people (and some odd adults) enjoy playing out.
I think you're taking this the wrong way. Misogyny isn't just saying "I don't like this person because they're a woman!" Woman have been fighting against the stereotype of "an angry woman is always bitchy and annoying!" for years, and when you claim that you want to kill them (kill is a very strong word) for just that, it naturally is really upsetting. Think of breaking bad as an example. Walt and Skyler made a lot of similar choices, (spoilers ahead) Walt was dealing drugs, Skyler was hAving an affair, etc. However, Walt is seen as a badass while skyler is seen as bitchy. Saying you want to kill sky lee because she's bitchy can be considered misogyny, though maybe not intentionally.
Killian wrote: "So I'm a misogynist now? "Of course not!
You've likely been one all along.
All kidding aside, words means things. Choose them carefully.
Michele wrote: "I hated Faile and Perrin, Cadsuane and Egwane, Galahad, Avienda, and Matt's Daughter of the Nine Moons bald chick. Matt was mostly very annoying and Rand often made me want to crawl into the pages and beat him with a baseball bat. In fact I pretty much wish books 6 thru 10 didn't exist. The women were annoying bitches who refused to ever share info, wouldn't listen or compromise, and tried to boss everyone around in incredibly condescending tones. The men were ridiculously stoic and overprotective and boneheaded. The characters were all annoying. I'm not a big fan of WoT obviously, though I did read through to the bitter bloated end. I'd kill off about 1/3 of the characters altogether.***Anyway, men are allowed to find female characters annoying, hateful, bitchy, evil, stupid, useless. This is a legitimate and normal human response. Just as women are allowed to hate male characters that are jerks.
Well said ... and DEATH to Nermal !!!!!
However although I agree book 6 onwards sucked, I found the last book to be inspiring, and wonderfully convoluted.
"The women were annoying bitches who refused to ever share info, wouldn't listen or compromise, and tried to boss everyone around in incredibly condescending tones. The men were ridiculously stoic and overprotective and boneheaded. The characters were all annoying."
That is exactly what I thought
Now can we get back to the Kill wish list? I'm interested in who (besides nermal and bayaz) we would like to kill off in literature, TV series/productions and films?
