Tournament of Books discussion
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2017 TOB - The Tournament
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Play-In & 1st Rounds TOB 2017
message 51:
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Amy
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Mar 13, 2017 09:44AM
and now I must go read Version Control (though Amberbug's endorsement had clinched that)
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Amy wrote: "poingu wrote: "hmm. seems we are speechless."heehee. I know your opinion on Lucy. I'm still such a fan I just bought a copy at Powell's family & friends sale last month."
I'm not a fan of either book, but I finished Lucy, and abandoned Version Control, and I can understand (after much persuasion from friends) why people liked Lucy. So I'm surprised by today.
I put it 2nd in my zombie guesses list (after Underground Railroad) so I'm assuming it'll get another shot. But yes, the last two round have been surprising (though I picked All the Birds in my bracket it was more wishful thinking than actual betting).
I voted for Lucy Barton as my zombie choice. I'm not a fan of the zombie round in general, but I do hope it gets another shot. That said, I only listened to about an hour of Version Control and moved on. Maybe someday I'll take another look.
Lucy was my least favorite 2016 read, I think. Didn't read Version Control, but I like this. I do expect it to come back as a Zombie though.
Think I will have Rooster for dinner! I'll show him!
I'm picking up Version Control again (only made it to page 28 before being distracted!) based on the love from the community. It's already better just getting to some of the mean-but-funny social dating stuff.
My bracket is still intact. I really liked both of these books, but I felt Version Control had the better chance since it was more innovative and unique. Version Control has stuck with me so strongly that I find myself thinking about it or referring to it almost daily. It's not the characters or the story line that keep coming back to me, but rather the state of the world that's depicted. I started to post more, but I'm guessing I better move over to the Version Control thread.
I still don't understand how the matches are made. LB and VC are SUCH different books, how can they really compete against each other? Ditto some the other matchups. (Homegoing vs Sweet Lamb?! Really?!) Is it totally random? I've looked for information on how the brackets are determined but have come up short. I know that the NCAA tournament is definitely not random in the match-ups. I know this ain't that but still, I'm looking for SOME reason here ;) (and realize there probably isn't any but thought I'd ask anyway :))
Lorraine wrote: "I still don't understand how the matches are made. LB and VC are SUCH different books, how can they really compete against each other? Ditto some the other matchups. (Homegoing vs Sweet Lamb?! Real..."From Nozlee's interview last year in this GR group:
"And now on to seeding the brackets! It's definitely not random, since we pay attention to "seeds." This is a more fun part of the process -- you just want to make sure that no one book is set up to potentially steamroll a bunch of others, and that the matchups seem interesting and neither too similar (two set of short stories, two family novels, two narratives about WOC) nor too different (giant bestseller versus very small press). You've all seen this year's bracket, for example -- you just stay lose and try to keep a bracket that will yield interesting results no matter what happens. "
I'll probably stay pretty quiet in the ToB commentariat tomorrow because it is likely to get heated, and I don't want to get burned. So here, in a safe zone, I want to declare that I am so pulling for High Dive to win the match! It was my wonderful surprise from the shortlist, and I want it to get more exposure and praise.
Rachel wrote: "Lorraine wrote: "I still don't understand how the matches are made. LB and VC are SUCH different books, how can they really compete against each other? Ditto some the other matchups. (Homegoing vs ..."Thank you, Rachel! I should have spent more time digging here on GR than reading about the TOB history. I still don't see the reasoning of some of the choices but at least I know there was thought behind the process!
I'm also pulling for High Dive! It was one of my favorites from the shortlist. I abooked it, and it was fantastic.I'm kinda shying away from the commentariat. I got some rough comments the other day, and that kinda spoils the fun for me. I just want to read and celebrate reading with my fellows, not rip and be ripped to shreds. I think I like it more over here. :)
I keep thinking of a line that @poingu posted the other day about approaching things (I apologize; I now forget the context!) 'with an expansive heart.' I want all my interactions (everywhere, always) to be in that spirit.
Ehrrin wrote: "I'm also pulling for High Dive! It was one of my favorites from the shortlist. I abooked it, and it was fantastic.
I'm kinda shying away from the commentariat. I got some rough comments the other ..."
I think you are referring to the Underground RR v. Black Wave round. I know people have strong opinions about both books, which is great because it creates a good conversation IF people are respectful and really engage with each other's ideas and perspectives. I think most participants did that, but a few people got antagonistic, and seemed to need to monopolize the conversation and have the last word, which took the fun out of it for me. I'm sorry that you got roughed up in the fray.
I expect that tomorrow's commentariat will be much the same, given the heated exchanges in our group's thread for The Mothers. I'll check in and comment early, hoping to celebrate High Dive's victory, then I'll probably lurk for the rest of the day.
I'm kinda shying away from the commentariat. I got some rough comments the other ..."
I think you are referring to the Underground RR v. Black Wave round. I know people have strong opinions about both books, which is great because it creates a good conversation IF people are respectful and really engage with each other's ideas and perspectives. I think most participants did that, but a few people got antagonistic, and seemed to need to monopolize the conversation and have the last word, which took the fun out of it for me. I'm sorry that you got roughed up in the fray.
I expect that tomorrow's commentariat will be much the same, given the heated exchanges in our group's thread for The Mothers. I'll check in and comment early, hoping to celebrate High Dive's victory, then I'll probably lurk for the rest of the day.
I am pulling for High Dive today as well, although I do think people are being a little too hard on The Mothers. I wish I'd gotten a chance to reread The Mothers before the tournament; I don't remember it that well, but I interpreted it very differently than some of the commenters in its thread did.
There is one particular portion of Nozlee's explanation of how they determine brackets is very interesting to me. "You just want to make sure that no one book is set up to potentially steamroll a bunch of others, and that the matchups seem interesting and neither too similar (two set of short stories, two family novels, two narratives about WOC) nor too different (giant bestseller versus very small press).
I think I could make a compelling argument that a giant bestseller (Underground Railroad) went up a very small press book (Black Wave). Perhaps you could make a similar argument for Moonglow versus Grief. That just really stood out to me.
Mother of the Revolution wrote: "There is one particular portion of Nozlee's explanation of how they determine brackets is very interesting to me. "You just want to make sure that no one book is set up to potentially steamroll a..."
Excellent observation...and quite possibly why this year's matchups just seem so random to me, without much in the way or rhyme or reason (at least to this reader's mind).
Sidenote: I'm disappointed in today's decision.
Tomorrow's match is between the two books I didn't get a chance to read. Lo and behold, my Moonglow hold came in over the weekend and Grief came in this afternoon. I picked it up 5 minutes before the library closed. I'm going to see how far I can get before tomorrow morning. I'm far enough in to Moonglow to know that it's not my thing.
poingu wrote: "hmm. seems we are speechless."Sigh... I wasn't a huge fan of Lucy compared to her other works but was hoping it would win so I could return VC to the library. I can't pinpoint what my problem is but I'm really STUCK in the reading process. I feel like I'll enjoy bits, but then the rest is a slog. Is it because one more literary writer is experimenting with science fiction, and everyone applauds, but not me because I've read enough science fiction to where it isn't new to me? Is that it? Is this another Dark Matter? Or is it something else? (These are rhetorical questions I am pondering.)
Amy wrote: "Moonglow vs. Grief is the Thing with Feathers: http://www.themorningnews.org/tob/201..."Wow that reviewer certainly was more personable about his feelings on the book.
Will Chancellor -- I knew he would put his whole heart into this. I adore him. I'm hoping his next book is still coming out this summer. I felt 99% sure he'd pick the way he did.
Sherri wrote: "Will Chancellor -- I knew he would put his whole heart into this. I adore him. I'm hoping his next book is still coming out this summer. I felt 99% sure he'd pick the way he did."Mostly I want to read his bio and make sure he isn't living in the country with his wife and two children. :)
That judgement did make me want to read something by Will Chancellor. Guess it's time to finally crack open A Brave Man Seven Storeys Tall.
I just read through the decision on Moonglow vs. Grief. Strongly agree. Grief was one of my favorite reading experiences of 2016. For me it was one of those books where I'd read a passage and pause, hugging the book to my chest, like I was trying to force it into my heart because, well....damn.
I'm off to read the comments on TMN, but had to share my excitement on a friendly forum. Hope you all are having an amazing day, bookish friends!
Mother of the Revolution wrote: "I just read through the decision on Moonglow vs. Grief. Strongly agree...."Yep. I liked Moonglow, but Grief was something extraordinary. It was the book this tournament that I'd read as a library copy and then gone out and purchased a copy to keep directly after finishing.
Jenny, I had to check his jacket flap for A Brave Man Seven Storeys Tall. It just says "Will Chancellor grew up in Hawaii and Texas, and lives in New York City. This us his first novel."Now I want to know who he lives with
Sherri wrote: "Jenny, I had to check his jacket flap for A Brave Man Seven Storeys Tall. It just says "Will Chancellor grew up in Hawaii and Texas, and lives in New York City. This us his first novel."Now I wan..."
Ha! I went and found it on his publisher website too.
Alison wrote: "That judgement did make me want to read something by Will Chancellor. Guess it's time to finally crack open A Brave Man Seven Storeys Tall."I honestly haven't even looked towards 'Brave Man' because of Kevin or John's snobby (and super mansplaining) comments when The Paying Guests beat it a few years ago. I kind of rolled Chancellor into the same bucket at that moment. Now, seeing his beautiful judgment, I will absolutely check him out! Good reminder to myself to stop making and holding grudges over very little. :)
Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "poingu wrote: "hmm. seems we are speechless."Sigh... I wasn't a huge fan of Lucy compared to her other works but was hoping it would win so I could return VC to the library. I can't pinpoint what..."
No! I think of Version Control as being the less "science" science fiction book... especially when compared to "Black Matter" (which I did not like). I think the beauty of the book is within all the crazy digressions and lectures... being able to go with the flow... if you go in expecting a straight plot-based science fiction read (like so many out there) you'll be disappointed - and that's what I LOVED about it.
ok, this is funny:Reading these novels was like eating two courses of squid in its ink: You just don’t expect to experience a pleasure quite so specific twice, especially not back to back.
The descriptions used throughout the judgment were delightful! (even when unnecessary)
Last of the Opening Rounds! Sudden Death vs. Mister Monkey: http://www.themorningnews.org/tob/201...
i have a different opinion of the way this one should have gone. Also, the write-up today has musician-level snark that I just don't care for at all. And generally, I don't like the use of the "maybe I'm stupid but" frame of false humility when it's then followed by a very un-humbly offered opinion.
yeah - in our other discussion group we managed to rant quite a lot about books that others loved and rave and we 'just don't see it' without pulling the 'smart-enough' line. But I'm going to grant her some leeway that she really just meant "what am I missing?" because that's definitely how I felt about Sudden Death. Despite all my googling, and my slow (and I thought, careful) reading, I'm just not getting any 'aha' moments. And, insidiously, I feel it's just around the corner as soon as someone points me to the perfect metaphor I missed along the way.
Amy wrote: "Despite all my googling, and my slow (and I thought, careful) reading, I'm just not getting any 'aha' moments. And, insidiously, I feel it's just around the corner as soon as someone points me to the perfect metaphor I missed along the way. ."I have no idea what's going on for most of this novel but for some reason it didn't bother me. I just decided it was all made up and so I didn't need to worry about what history I didn't know. (That's also how I finally got through Ulysses--just reading it through like I would read The Walking Dead Compendium)
I wish I could have found the playfulness of the book that so many others did. It just didn't work for me but then again... I did put it down after awhile and never got around to finishing it.
I literally read the book for the last 9 months (ever since considering it for altTOB) and I kept waiting for two things 1) a hook & 2) a pay off. My favorite parts of the story were the early depiction of Boleyn's beheading/the crafting of the tennis balls & the creation of the feather mitre (and other relics)... they piqued my interest but didn't fit into the flow of the narrative except as a sort of exploitative sacrifice for the sake of the central tennis match/conquests by powerful men. And while that fits with Drew's "bad men win a lot" summarization of Enrique's aim, it saddened me enough to not care about the rest of the play.
Okay, that makes me feel a bit better. Those two scenes you mentioned were also the only things that piqued my interest.
poingu wrote: "I have no idea what's going on for most of this novel but for some reason it didn't bother me. I just decided it was all made up and so I didn't need to worry about what history I didn't know..."Exactly - I enjoyed the ride on the passenger side, and didn't worry about where we were going. The judge mentioned chunks of untranslated Spanish, Italian and French, which I don't even remember, and I can't read the first two and am barely literate in the third. I'm not a fan of post-modern experimental writing, but I wouldn't put this book in that category. I loved the characters and the stories and didn't try to parse out a bigger picture. The length was perfect too - this kind of writing can only be sustained for so long.
I just read The Story of My Teeth hoping for the same experience, but alas.
Nadine wrote: "poingu wrote: "I have no idea what's going on for most of this novel but for some reason it didn't bother me. I just decided it was all made up and so I didn't need to worry about what history I di..."If you haven't read it already, I recommend HHhH by Laurent Binet Nadine if you want to try something with a similar vibe to Sudden Death. Although it is also different...not as playful and varied and longer I think.
I haven't - thanks for the tip - I'm on it!
Yeah I just put HHhH on my TBR today... sounds interesting as well as helpful to determine if my issue is format or content.
poingu wrote: "i have a different opinion of the way this one should have gone. Also, the write-up today has musician-level snark that I just don't care for at all. And generally, I don't like the use of the "may..."
I agree with you, Poingu. I don't agree with the decision, and I didn't care for the tone of the judgment.
I agree with you, Poingu. I don't agree with the decision, and I didn't care for the tone of the judgment.
Amy wrote: "Yeah I just put HHhH on my TBR today... sounds interesting as well as helpful to determine if my issue is format or content."I enjoyed HHhH much more than Sudden Death although perhaps "enjoyed" isn't the right word in either case. Maybe I should say the former left me with more positive feelings than the latter.
The most shocking thing about today's judgment was All the Birds knocking Lucy Barton out of zombie contention.
Sherri wrote: "The most shocking thing about today's judgment was All the Birds knocking Lucy Barton out of zombie contention."Agreed - that was a surprise.
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Tournament of Books
Books mentioned in this topic
Lab Girl (other topics)All the Birds in the Sky (other topics)
Grief Is the Thing with Feathers (other topics)
The Story of My Teeth (other topics)
Sudden Death (other topics)
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