February 2017 - Whats Eating Gilbert Grape

[Margo]

Kristie wrote: "I'm planning to start this one soon. I'm reading it for the toppler. :)"

It's an interesting one - I'm struggling to understand the motivations!

[Joan]

Margo wrote: "Chapter 19: Haven't progressed very much in the last few days as I've been busy but [spoilers removed]"

I found that frustrating too. Chap 19 (view spoiler)[ and I felt the author didn't give us any insight about why each of the family members acted as they did. I hope the author did that intentionally, that he was making an artistic statement about what we can KNOW about others, but I'm not convinced that it was intentional. (hide spoiler)]

[Margo]

chapter 30 (view spoiler)[ I can't decide if Gilbert is trying to save money by not eating at home or if there is some deeper significance (hide spoiler)]

[Joan]

Margo wrote: "chapter 30 [spoilers removed]"

Chap 30 that had not occurred to me (view spoiler)[ what other explanations do you have in mind? (hide spoiler)]

[Margo]

chapter 30 \(view spoiler)[ after he brought home the massive grocerie shop Amy called him for dinner and he said he wasn't hungry. The next day he went on the picnic with Mrs Betty Carver and ate lodes. Still refussed food at home then eat a lot with Graces granma and later with Grace. I think he finds the idea of the amound of food deing consumed by momma repulsive and hence all the food in his house has become unedible - but i have been wrong before LOL (hide spoiler)]

[Joan]

Margo wrote: "chapter 30 \[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ After reading the description of the kichen at the beginning of the book, I cannot imagine eating anything prepared in it. Ugh! (hide spoiler)]

[Margo]

lol that could be what it is ;-)

[Margo]

how old is Gilbert? I thought he was mid twenties from earlier reading but I can not find the reference \(view spoiler)[ it is a bit gross to think of him and his friend chasing a 15 year old. Maybe i got his age wrong?\ (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Margo wrote: "how old is Gilbert? I thought he was mid twenties from earlier reading but I can not find the reference \[spoilers removed]"

He is 24

[Margo]

Thanks Cherie, that's about what I thought.I'm talking about events that happen by chapter 30 (view spoiler)[ that makes it somewhat pervy that he and his pal are sniffing around after a 15 year old. Does anyone else have an issue w8th this? I'm going to read through this thread up to where I'm at (hide spoiler)]

[Margo]

Cpt 33 (view spoiler)[ Gilbert seems to really resent "the ones that got away". Janice I can understand why - she is hard to take. We don't yet know the story with Lance or Larry. Maybe there's good reason for the resentments. I think cht 33 provides more evidence that Gilbert is not eating at home due to his fears that there won't enough food to keep momma going. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Margo wrote: "Cpt 33 [spoilers removed]"

re Ch 30 and Gilbert's age (view spoiler)[ I think we all have had issues regarding Gilbert and his friends sniffing around the much younger girls, Margo. Pervy is a good word. (hide spoiler)]

re Ch 33 (view spoiler)[ I never got the impression that Gilbert was not eating at home because he was afraid that there was not enough food. I thought it made him sick to his stomach to think about how much she was eating and to see her continue to get bigger and bigger. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Margo wrote: "Chapter 19: Haven't progressed very much in the last few days as I've been busy but [spoilers removed]"

I thought your observations were great, Margo. I wondered it, but never said anything. I am talking about the enabling. (view spoiler)[ I have seen stories on TV and You Tube regarding people who are huge and how much they eat everyday. They cannot get out of their room to buy food, nor fix it, but they get it. It made me wonder why parents or care givers would continue to do this for these people and how they can afford to do it. (hide spoiler)]

[Joan]

Cherie wrote: "Margo wrote: "Chapter 19: Haven't progressed very much in the last few days as I've been busy but [spoilers removed]"

I thought your observations were great, Margo. I wondered it, but never said a..."

Cap 33 (view spoiler)[ I think we all were creeped out by the pursuit of Becky by the 24 yr old men but I wonder if the author, who was a young male (30) when he wrote this, saw the age gap as no big deal. Becky is portrayed as quite emotionally mature. We are all women and are seeing a line between girlhood and womanhood - but maybe the author did not. It is not incommon for men to date women 10 years younger.
As for the morbidly obese, I gotta point out that people who get that big in real life have metabolic and gastrointestinal disorders. You cannot get that big just by eating too much. First are differences in the micobiome - google fecal transplants for more on that. And then metabolic efficiency google research on people who lost weight through America's Biggest Loser - basically their bodies pack on fat even as they starve. (hide spoiler)]

[Sandra, Moderator]

I started it yesterday, and I am around page 40 now. I will come back to comment and read some spoilers. So far I am impressed and how sad and funny it can be at the same time.

[Margo]

Cherie wrote: "Margo wrote: "Chapter 19: Haven't progressed very much in the last few days as I've been busy but [spoilers removed]"

I thought your observations were great, Margo. I wondered it, but never said a..."

Cherie (view spoiler)[ I know, I've them too! I know some men like fat women and call themselves the "feeder". Gross :-X But in this case it is their mother and they are basically only working to provide money for her food! (hide spoiler)]

[Margo]

Joan wrote: "Cherie wrote: "Margo wrote: "Chapter 19: Haven't progressed very much in the last few days as I've been busy but [spoilers removed]"

I thought your observations were great, Margo. I wondered it, b..."

Joan (view spoiler)[ Good point and I will certainly look though things up when I have time - thanks :-) In this case however I think it is an emotional response to her husbands suicide and the woman needs help, not food. If for no other reason than it is going to bankrupt her family and cause her own death. The amount of food she is eating!! (hide spoiler)]

[Sandra, Moderator]

Joan wrote: "In Part 1 we meet Arnie, Amy, Ellen and Gilbert -
If they had lived in your neighborhood when you were growing up, would you have been friends with any of them?"

I am sure my sister would have been friends with Ellen. *rolls eyes*
I probably would have been in love with Gilbert, since "looser" was my type back then...

[Sandra, Moderator]

Joan wrote: "Do you think Gilbert is a reliable narrator about how the people in town view the Grape family?"

Not sure. I think since he feels this from the inside, he probably isn't very objective. But at the same time all he says other people thinks about his family sounds possible.

[Sandra, Moderator]

I can't read more spoilers. I finished chapter 7. So far I am enjoying it. I like the set, and I like the characters even they are not likable. They are intriguing and interesting. As I said above, the story is so sad and funny at the same time. And it is crazy how many things are going on in a small town like Endora.

[Joan]

Margo wrote: "Joan wrote: "Cherie wrote: "Margo wrote: "Chapter 19: Haven't progressed very much in the last few days as I've been busy but [spoilers removed]"

I thought your observations were great, Margo. I w..."
Yes I just meant (view spoiler)[ her gross overeating due to emotion may be OK in fiction but in a way harms people in real life who are obese by misrepresenting their diseases... and that makes me feel sorry for them...like back in the 80s & 90s when films blamed "ice queen" mothers for autism. (hide spoiler)]

[Joan]

Sandra wrote: "Joan wrote: "In Part 1 we meet Arnie, Amy, Ellen and Gilbert -
If they had lived in your neighborhood when you were growing up, would you have been friends with any of them?"

I am sure my sister ..."

Lol
Well he clearly (view spoiler)[ has a way with the ladies (hide spoiler)]

[Joan]

Sandra wrote: "I can't read more spoilers. I finished chapter 7. So far I am enjoying it. I like the set, and I like the characters even they are not likable. They are intriguing and interesting. As I said above,..."

I'm glad you are enjoying it.

[Joan]

Could this family & their experiences happen in your community?

Did Endora have to be a small, isolated, rural town?

[Sandra, Moderator]

Joan wrote: "Could this family & their experiences happen in your community?

Did Endora have to be a small, isolated, rural town?"

I am not into the book enough to tell for sure. I still have to know too much more about Endora and the Grapes, but the lack of opportunities for the people, specially young people, seems to play an important roll. This is not exclusive of small, isolated and rural towns, but it is unfortunately common in places like Endora.

[Poongothai]

I have just started reading it. It is an easy read. I'll come back after I finish to go through the threads

[Sandra, Moderator]

Finished chapter 17 (view spoiler)[ I know I would feel sorry and empathetic with the Grapes' mother, but I am not right now. I know she has a problem, but she is abusive and abandoning. I can't believe how this kids had survived the last 17 years by themselves. Thinking Gilbert was only 7, and Amy 17 and in charge of the others, including a baby and an intellectually challenged kid. A person who can eat until weight that much has definitively a problem, but it makes me mad, very mad. I still don't know anything about Gilbert's father suicide. Everybody describes him as a happy person, so it doesn't make sense to me so far. I guess I will know more later. (hide spoiler)]

[Joan]

Sandra wrote: "Finished chapter 17 [spoilers removed]"

Are you saying your reaction towards that character would be very different if it was a person you met in real life?

[Joan]

Question for wherever you are in the book:

Do you feel that the author developed any or all of the characters sufficiently to meet the needs of the story?

[Sandra, Moderator]

Joan wrote: "Are you saying your reaction towards that character would be very different if it was a person you met in real life?"

No. I don't think my reaction would be too different if I knew that family in person. (view spoiler)[The only difference might be I could be active, try to help in some way. I can see my mother, for example, virtually adopting those kids. I can see her cooking for them. I can see her spending time with Arnie. This is something strange, now that I think about it. It is a small town, where everybody knows everybody, but nobody seems to give these kids a hand. Mr. Lamson seems to be very supportive of Gilbert, but other than he as his wife, nobody seems to care about them. (hide spoiler)]

[Joan]

Sandra wrote: "Joan wrote: "Are you saying your reaction towards that character would be very different if it was a person you met in real life?"

No. I don't think my reaction would be too different if I knew th..."

Hmmm, I see what you mean; that does seem surprising.

[Margo]

Sandra wrote: "Joan wrote: "Are you saying your reaction towards that character would be very different if it was a person you met in real life?"

No. I don't think my reaction would be too different if I knew th..."

Sandra I agree completely (view spoiler)[ I think mommas behaviour is very selfish but I also think it's consistent with depression and comfort eating gotten way out of control. It's very unfair on all her children. I hope that today someone would be monitoring Arnies progress and would intervene. (hide spoiler)]

[Margo]

Finished the book on Friday (view spoiler)[ I really didn't see that ending coming! I imagined various endings - Arns dying and Gilbert leaving town, r maybe Gilbert committing suicide like his father. The use of the house as a funeral pyre for momma never entered my head. Kudos for originally. In many ways very satisfying but what is going to become of them? They apear to have burnt their only asset - apart from the land. What's going to happen to poor Arnie? (hide spoiler)]

[Margo]

Joan wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Joan wrote: "Are you saying your reaction towards that character would be very different if it was a person you met in real life?"

No. I don't think my reaction would be too differe..."

To me the novel felt like watching a movie. I could see what the characters were doing but not why they were doing it. I would have liked a bit more introspection.

[Sandra, Moderator]

Margo wrote: "Sandra I agree completely (view spoiler)"

Yes, I think you are right. I'm still pretty mad at her. I finished chapter 21 yesterday (view spoiler)[and it is still upsetting the financial troubles these kids have, how the siblings who are gone have to help sending checks, and how half of the groceries list goes to feed Mom. I know she is depressed, but she yelling "popcorn!" from her armchair while Amy runs to serve her... It stills makes me very mad (hide spoiler)]

I didn't finish the book yet, so I'm not reading your final spoiler yet.

[Sandra, Moderator]

Joan wrote: "Question for wherever you are in the book:

Do you feel that the author developed any or all of the characters sufficiently to meet the needs of the story?"

So far (only in chapter 21) I can see clearly the Grapes who live in the house in Endora (view spoiler)[not yet the ones who are gone. They have just been introduced (hide spoiler)]. I guess I would like to understand Tucker better, he is still kind of diffuse to me. And I don't get Becky at all yet.

[Margo]

Sandra wrote: "Joan wrote: "Question for wherever you are in the book:

Do you feel that the author developed any or all of the characters sufficiently to meet the needs of the story?"

So far (only in chapter 21..."

I didn't actually like any of the characters, except maybe Gilberts boss who was a little too good to be true - at least seen through Gilberts eyes!

[Joan]

Margo wrote: "Joan wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Joan wrote: "Are you saying your reaction towards that character would be very different if it was a person you met in real life?"

No. I don't think my reaction would b..."

I thought so too

[Joan]

Sandra wrote: "Joan wrote: "Question for wherever you are in the book:

Do you feel that the author developed any or all of the characters sufficiently to meet the needs of the story?"

So far (only in chapter 21..."

I'm not sure how to explain this but I wonder if our images of Endora vary by where we live. If we all drew a picture of Endora, would the images by people from Australia, Russia & North America be very different?

[Margo]

Joan wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Joan wrote: "Question for wherever you are in the book:

Do you feel that the author developed any or all of the characters sufficiently to meet the needs of the story?"

So far (onl..."

Good point Joan. I live in Ireland so my ideas on what US towns look like are all based on TV shows. I picture it as being like the town in Breaking Bad but smaller.

[Joan]

My images of Endora come from trips to Illinois and Missouri, brown, very few trees, and incredibly flat. I've never been to Iowa.
And I imagine isolated towns in Ireland nestled in green, gently rolling hills.

[Margo]

Joan wrote: "My images of Endora come from trips to Illinois and Missouri, brown, very few trees, and incredibly flat. I've never been to Iowa.
And I imagine isolated towns in Ireland nestled in green, gently r..."

Well you're right about Ireland, can,t comment about Iowa lol

[Joan]

Margo wrote: "Joan wrote: "My images of Endora come from trips to Illinois and Missouri, brown, very few trees, and incredibly flat. I've never been to Iowa.
And I imagine isolated towns in Ireland nestled in gr..."

I hope to see Ireland some day, Iowa not so much.

[Kristie, Moderator]

I'm at chapter 24 (40%) and I'm hoping after my next meeting today that I can just sit and read this straight through or close to.

A couple of thoughts (view spoiler)[ I do not like Ellen. I understand that she would be attention-seeking and selfish due to her age and position in the family, as well as the family's dysfunction. However, some of the things she says and does are over the top. Asking her brothers if they want her sexually?! Ok, you may need validation, but that is crossing the line.

Also, Gilbert is quite the jerk. Again, I understand that he has had it rough and is frustrated with his situation, but he's not alone in that and he is so rude to everyone. Of course, he is also there for them when it counts. (hide spoiler)]

I'm not sure if this is the best time for me to be reading this story. I think the story feels even more depressing due to some real life stressors and it has been taking me a little extra time to get through it. I find the story good so far, just depressing. I haven't really loved any of the books I've read recently, so I was hoping for a good one. I am concerned that it is just going to be more of the same though, as I know some of you didn't care for it and said it was anti-climatic, etc. Hopefully, I'll get through it quickly.

[Kristie, Moderator]

My view of Endora is different from Ireland. I've been to Ireland and it's beautiful. I feel that it is more...quaint? than Endora.

I picture Endora being a small somewhat rundown town as I've driven through in some of the southern US states or seen in various movies.

[Margo]

Kristie wrote: "My view of Endora is different from Ireland. I've been to Ireland and it's beautiful. I feel that it is more...quaint? than Endora.

I picture Endora being a small somewhat rundown town as I've dr..."

That's pretty much how I picture it Kristie. Bassed on my extensive tv viewing experience lol

I agree with your opinion on both Ellen and Gilbert but I think growing up with almost zero parental input didn't do any of the younger siblings any favours.

[Kristie, Moderator]

Exactly, Margo. That's what I was thinking when I mentioned the family. For Ellen, (view spoiler)[ she is the youngest. Her father died before she was born. Her mother has no time or attention for her. Her older brother is mentally disabled and she is expected to be responsible for him at times. She has a lot going on to make her needy of attention.

And Gilbert seems to feel trapped and responsible for helping to care for his family. (hide spoiler)]

[Kristie, Moderator]

Just finished chapter 29. No wonder Gilbert doesn't like Mrs Brainer!! I hate when teachers make stupid rules, like (view spoiler)[ you miss recess if you go to the bathroom before break. I get that some kids struggle with staying in their seats, but a blanket rule like that is awful.

When my kids were little they ran into situations like this a couple of times. I told them that no one was allowed to tell them that they couldn't go to the bathroom if they truly needed to go and I would back them up if they ever had to disobey to use a toilet. It was only an issue once when my daughter's teacher wouldn't let her go and she walked out of the class without permission. She had to go to the principal's office and they called me. I told them it was unacceptable to deny her use of a bathroom. She didn't get punished and I was actually proud of her for standing up for her rights and needs. (hide spoiler)]

Not to mention the rest of the story (view spoiler)[ making him clean it up, miss recess, and stay after class. Plus, the link to his dad's death... I would have hated her too. I was wondering what was up with her when he peed on her grave. I knew he didn't like her from his previous conversation, but it had to be serious to pee on her grave! (hide spoiler)]

[Sandra, Moderator]

I finished it yesterday and rated it 3 stars, but it is probably 2.5 (view spoiler)[It was depressing, and I didn't get many of the characters. I don't understand really Becky's role. I saw the end coming, but I thought it would be Arnie who accidentally starts the fire, since the fascination the school fire provoked in him. I also imagined Momma would die because of the fire. I would have appreciate some kind of epilogue to know what comes next. After such a twist in the events, I would like to know what happens. Do they leave Endora? does life gets better after Momma's death or worse?
The only positive thing I can say is that after disliking Gilbert most of the book, at the end I finally connected with him. I was able to see all this anger he had inside. He wasn't a good person, it's true, but in some way he was abandoned by both of his parents, and made to take care, with Amy, of the family. And not a normal family, but one with a intellectually challenged brother, and a whale abusive mother. To make things worst living in a place that do not give anything else to compensate. Not a good job, not a loving girlfriend to share all of this. Not opportunities at all. To leave Endora meant to abandon the family too. Specially Arnie, who needs him so much, and also Amy who already is a slave as it is. I would have been furious too. I would have felt I hated my parents. No that this is right, but I can feel his pain and unrest. (hide spoiler)]

All of that said, I'm glad I read it anyway. I probably watch the movie some days, since it seems to be consensus about it being better than the book.

[Joan]

A friend of mine has 2 children, her daughter is moderately disabled. She often says that her son has the worst of both worlds - he is not an only child but he doesn't have a sibling to share childhood with either. He cares so much about his sister that he can get a bit bossy if he feels his parents aren't taking proper care of her. It's cute but sobering.

As for Ellen (view spoiler)[ I thought she was more a product of the author's adolescent fantasy than a credible character.... what he dreamed 15 year-old girls were like. (hide spoiler)]