World, Writing, Wealth discussion

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message 1: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13422 comments Not everywhere, but in many places you are expected to tip waiters, pool-boys, porters and other presumably low-paid employees for their service. Heard of employers who abuse the system and don't pay salaries offering staff to get paid of tips or taking part of the tips to themselves.
I mean it's nice to express gratitude and all and it's not a heavy burden, but don't we just encourage employers to pay the minimum and below? And are tips mandatory or discretionary in your perception?


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Almost always mandatory for me. If I don't tip waitstaff will still make low wages, so I tip.


message 3: by Michel (new)

Michel Poulin Most employers who have employees that could receive tips purposely keep their salaries low, using tip-making as a justification. Restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels nearly all do that, so I tip because otherwise those poor employees would end up with little to live with.


message 4: by Michael (last edited Feb 01, 2017 08:18AM) (new)

Michael Fattorosi | 477 comments In the US tipping a form of reward not salary. Many think that TIPS stands for "To Insure Proper Service."

Its akin to sales commissions. If you are an excellent waiter, bartender, valet ect. you will make much more with a tip based system then with a regular wage.

As a college student and law student I worked as a bartender, I would make on average of $75 for a lunch (3 hours) and I could make $200 to $500 on a weekend night as a bartender (8 hours)

I would have never made close to that working for a hourly wage with no tips.

My former brother-in-law worked as a valet in Vegas. He would make $200 to $500 a night parking cars. He had one guy that would tip $100 to him whenever he was there to park his expensive car right in front of the club.


message 5: by J.J. (new)

J.J. Mainor | 2144 comments Tipping is sort of a way for people to put their money where their mouth is when it comes to the minimum wage issue. There's the whole argument that when you raise the minimum wage, businesses have to pass the costs onto the consumer and then people will cut back their spending in response. The tip on a meal is the true test to what that meal is worth and the real value of that service to you. After all, why wait for the government and then the business to tell you how much the waitress is worth? If you think she's underpaid, then leave her a bigger tip instead of calculating out the 15% to the penny.

That's not to drag the larger issue of minimum wage into the argument because a lot of jobs out there don't receive tips from the public to augment their wages, but restaurants are one of the few opportunities for the public to weigh in on the issue with their wallets.


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments Before tipping always ask if tips are pooled or not. I preer not to reward lazy servers i my server happens to be excellent. In such cases you can speak to the manager about the proper way to give your server his or her own tip.


Tara Woods Turner | 2063 comments IN COLLEGE I WAITRESSED AT A COUNTRY CLUB AND NO ONE TIPS MORE POORLY THAN OLD MONEY HA HA. PEOPLE WITH NEW MONEY TRULY DO THROW IT AROUND.


message 8: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13422 comments There are countries, where leaving a tip is uncustomary and may be even considered insulting:
http://www.businessinsider.com/hate-t...

Maybe a sometimes bad service we get from civil servants, police officers, doctors, lawyers, other service providers, because they don't get any tips? -:)


message 9: by Don (last edited Feb 03, 2017 01:51AM) (new)

Don H.M (theayatollahofrock) | 11 comments If you're in college and evn the waiters make more than you, it's idiotic to think you have to Tip. You express gratitude by paying for your meal and saying thank you. Restaurant owners who pay very little and say you get paid Jack shit + tips are just being cheap assholes. They are the ones to blame if I don't tip.

People look at you with disdain when you don't give away free money and those people are part of the reason why these establishment get away with paying workers less than what they are fairly due. I'm not tipping the sales assistant at best buy or MacDonalds, why do I have to tip at a restaurant. The policy is unfair to everyone but the employer.

I applied for a job at a phone store and they told me I get paid depending on the amount of phones I sell+tips. I told them to shove it and walked out and a year later most of their stores in Toronto had closed down. Ford paid his workers a good wage and gave them a few days off... Look at where they are now. It's a bad long run economic strategy that slows growth, because specialization is taken completely out and new employees need to constantly be hired. It benefits no one.


message 10: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13422 comments Don wrote: "The policy is unfair to everyone but the employer...."

That's also a way to look at things -:)


message 11: by Michael (new)

Michael Fattorosi | 477 comments Nik wrote: "Maybe a sometimes bad service we get from civil servants, police officers, doctors, lawyers, other service providers, because they don't get any tips? -:)
"


It's interesting that you say that. My first job out of law school had less to do with my Law Review experience or what legal job I worked as a law student and more to do with the fact that I had been in the restaurant business for almost 10 years at that point.

They wanted to know how I took care of my customers because they saw I would bring the same mentality to how I took care of my clients. And thats exactly how it has been.

Except you do not get rewarded with tips, you get rewarded with loyalty. Ive had the same clients now for almost 6-12 years and really do not have to market to try to keep new clients coming in. They find their way to me usually by referral.


message 12: by Nik (last edited Jan 15, 2018 09:01AM) (new)

Nik Krasno | 13422 comments Is tipping customary or not in your location? And if so, in what amount?


message 13: by Rita (new)

Rita Chapman | 152 comments Tipping isn't customary in Australia - and I've heard that some taxi drivers will leave an Aussie standing on the pavement because they know they won't get a tip! Having said that, I think most of us tip when it is expected overseas. Tipping in restaurants is becoming quite common now though.


message 14: by Leonie (new)

Leonie (leonierogers) | 1579 comments I'm also Australian - and when overseas where tipping is customary, I do tip, however I find it really awkward, as apart from the odd cafe having a jar with 'tips' written on it (generally where people put spare change), we don't have a culture of tipping.

Having said that, when eating in the US, we found the table service overly solicitous. By that, I mean that several times our family wanted the wait staff to just stand back and let us eat in peace, without hovering or constantly filling our glasses.

I understand why they hovered, but the reasons for it leave me very uncomfortable. My opinion is that anyone in customer service should have good customer service skills - it's part of the job description, just as treating my patients with respect is part of mine.

Consequently, they should be paid appropriately, just like anyone else - I can't imagine that nurses, doctors and public servants get tips as part of their wages.


message 15: by Scout (new)

Scout (goodreadscomscout) | 5332 comments I'm wondering about the quality of service in Aussie restaurants. If the waiter is a salaried employee, I'm thinking it's not that great. Where's the incentive to provide excellent service, if there are no tips?


message 16: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13422 comments Wonder if someone feels there might be something between tips and dignity. Shall people be especially servient in order for someone to condescend and give some extra? Residue of contemporary shoeshiners?


message 17: by Leonie (new)

Leonie (leonierogers) | 1579 comments Scout wrote: "I'm wondering about the quality of service in Aussie restaurants. If the waiter is a salaried employee, I'm thinking it's not that great. Where's the incentive to provide excellent service, if ther..."

Generally it's just fine. I assume that being wait staff is like any other job. You work to a standard because that's what's expected as part of your job.

I'm a salaried employee (physio) and there are codes of conduct, conditions of employment and professionalism. I'm not tipped in order to 'make me' work up to a professional standard.

I think the way I feel about it relates to what Nik has said about tips and dignity. Most Australians I've spoken to who've been to the US say things like "Why don't they just pay people properly?" I suppose that part of the issue for me is that being paid poorly implies a different status conferred on the person - that is, they're starting at a 'lower level' simply because someone believes that they eon't do a good job because they're in a hospitality job.


message 18: by Michel (new)

Michel Poulin Well, you could look at what happened in a couple of Tim Horton doughnut shop franchises in Ontario, Canada, when the provincial government raised the minimum hourly wage to $15.00. A few franchise owners immediately cut the few benefits their employees enjoyed and also cut their work hours. As a result, those employees ended up with less at the end of the month, despite the raised minimum wage. Mind you, the affair raised a nationwide public stink at once, with those franchise managers being pilloried in the medias and decried by the Ontario Prime Minister herself. Thus, just raising wages may not work as well as we think in the case of minimum wage employees.

Here in Québec Province, tipping in restaurants is widespread and is often automatically included in the bill (15% is the common rate). If you refuse to tip and come back repeatedly to a restaurant where you don't give tips, then don't expect much in terms of service, as everyone will consider you a cheapskate.

One funny story I learned about tipping in history: at the start of the 20th Century, in 1910 France, waiters in restaurants and cafés did not get a salary. They had to survive solely on the tips they received. Maybe that influenced how tips were considered later on.


message 19: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9460 comments In New Zealand, the idea of tipping is quite alien. The feeling is, if it is worth the employer hiring someone to do the job, it is worth paying him well. It is true that a number of such waiters will be students earning on the side, but so what? The service is usually as good here as I have seen anywhere else in the world, and as often as not, better. Not tipping is not being a cheapskate - it is simply not the thing we do.


message 20: by Leonie (new)

Leonie (leonierogers) | 1579 comments Ian wrote: "In New Zealand, the idea of tipping is quite alien. The feeling is, if it is worth the employer hiring someone to do the job, it is worth paying him well. It is true that a number of such waiters w..."

^^^Very much this.


message 21: by Michel (new)

Michel Poulin Don't take it badly, please: I only said what was the common view in Canada. No insult intended to anybody else.


message 22: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9460 comments Hey Michel, I was not (a) hurt) or (b) running down Canada. I was just saying what it is like here.


message 23: by Michel (new)

Michel Poulin Okay! All is good then.


message 24: by Ian (new)

Ian Bott (iansbott) | 211 comments Scout wrote: "I'm wondering about the quality of service in Aussie restaurants. If the waiter is a salaried employee, I'm thinking it's not that great. Where's the incentive to provide excellent service, if there are no tips?"

The incentive is the same as in any other industry - pride in a job well done. Of course, not every workplace or employee feels that kind of incentive. IMO it's far more down to corporate culture than anything. Where I currently work (in the Public Service) my division provides government services to the public and there is intense pride in providing excellent service. It's just the way we roll, no tips in sight.


message 25: by Scout (new)

Scout (goodreadscomscout) | 5332 comments The difference between food service and other service occupations is the immediacy of it. You normally have only a certain amount of time in which to eat a meal. Tips reward attentive, fast service.


message 26: by Ian (new)

Ian Bott (iansbott) | 211 comments Scout wrote: "The difference between food service and other service occupations is the immediacy of it. You normally have only a certain amount of time in which to eat a meal. Tips reward attentive, fast service."

I can't speak for government services in the US, but I suspect many people don't truly understand the range of needs serviced by government offices where I live. Not until they have need of them.

I suspect that for a single parent picking up a welfare check before they can afford to buy groceries there is a great deal of immediacy. Someone still grieving and navigating the paperwork following a bereavement would appreciate compassionate and attentive service. Someone on vacation wanting to buy a fishing license, or trying to renew their driver's license in their lunch hour would appreciate attentive and fast service.

Even in the electronic age, many people deal with government over the counter and everyone's time is valuable. When it comes down to it, I really don't see anything unique about food service, other than by tradition.


message 27: by Leonie (new)

Leonie (leonierogers) | 1579 comments Scout wrote: "The difference between food service and other service occupations is the immediacy of it. You normally have only a certain amount of time in which to eat a meal. Tips reward attentive, fast service."

I deal with people in pain every day of my working life. I'm absolutely certain they feel that there is significant immediacy to their issues.

Like Ian, when comparing jobs, I really see no difference at all when it comes to hospitality staff.


message 28: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13422 comments I think it's nothing bad to thank people for an especially good service/job and it's not unusual to bring something as a gratitude to hospital personnel, a doctor or a bottle of fine spirit to a lawyer)
When the staff is underpaid or not paid at all to solicit tipping seems more problematic.


message 29: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9460 comments Come come, Nik. Soliciting bottles of fine spirit???? Where I come from, lawyers get paid excessively as it is 😄


message 30: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13422 comments Caught red-handed and spirit thirsty -:)


message 31: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13422 comments Are tips compatible with dignity and are they customary in your location?


message 32: by J. (last edited Jun 11, 2021 01:22PM) (new)

J. Gowin | 2862 comments Generally, I only dine out on dates. I don't want her to think that I'm cheap so I tip. Of course if she gets too happy with my money, I'll tell the waiter/waitress that it's my date's birthday.


message 33: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 9460 comments In NZ locals do not tip. We expect the price of the meal to include a reasonable return so the staff get acceptable wages. Mind you, since I live alone I don't dine out very much.


message 34: by Scout (new)

Scout (goodreadscomscout) | 5332 comments Customary. I tip 20%. I appreciate being waited on and not doing dishes, and share the wealth :-)


message 35: by Nik (new)

Nik Krasno | 13422 comments Scout wrote: "Customary. I tip 20%. I appreciate being waited on and not doing dishes, and share the wealth :-)"

Very generous and well shared :) Here it's customary btw 10-15%


message 36: by Lizzie (new)

Lizzie | 1622 comments Customary to tip when being served at a bar or restaurant. 20% seems to be the norm.

Now the norm also seems to be to tip when picking up take out. We have a lot of mom and pop places where the owners are the cooks and regsiter people.

Tipping a certain percentage seems to be expected rather than something that used to be done based on service.


message 37: by Papaphilly (new)

Papaphilly | 2701 comments There is an old saying here, once a waiter always a tipper. I tip well.


message 38: by Lizzie (new)

Lizzie | 1622 comments Papaphilly wrote: "There is an old saying here, once a waiter always a tipper. I tip well."

When I was 21, I tried being a waitress. Didn't make it through lunch. I appreciated what my sister did a whole lot more and tipped a whole lot better after that experience.

I did "bartend" in an icehouse in Houston for over a year. Apparently, I can handle beer and setups much better than food orders. Or maybe it was because they were all guys from the local car sales and service lots.


message 39: by Scout (new)

Scout (goodreadscomscout) | 5332 comments When I decide on a tip, I think about how lucky I am to be financially independent and secure, although not wealthy. So when I tip well, I feel I'm sharing my good fortune.


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