Torture Scene - is it too disturbing?

[Graeme]

Hi all,

looking for comments on a torture scene I have written. The first reader found it a "bit disturbing" in a potentially negative way.

Looking for some constructive feedback.

Of course - some graphic violence ahead.

https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...

[Bernard]

Having written a novel where physicians give a detailed description of the mutilations Jack the Ripper went through on his victims bodies, I can't say yours are too graphic. LOL

I think that the context in the story where the torture scene appears as well as the purpose or importance of the expected result of the torture (what's at stake) are two elements that may offer a justifcation to the average targeted reader.

[Graeme]

Thanks Bernard,

Much appreciated.

I agree - the context is pivotal to the meaning of the scene.

[Nik]

Not extreme, in my opinion, especially for those appreciating graphic violence...

[Graeme]

Thanks Nik,

[J.J.]

It didn't seem too bad to me. When you talk about graphic, I always hold up movies like Hostel as the standard for over-the-top graphic.

[Michael]

The X shaped frame is actually called a St. Andrew's cross if you werent aware. I actually have a torture scene in my novel with a St. Andrew's cross... lol

Reminiscent of the "Wrath of Khan" scene where they put the worms into the ears of Kirk's crew.

Well written and no I dont think it was too graphic. Just enough to give the right imagery and make the chapter interesting. Well done!

[Joanna]

If your novel is made into a movie, I will keep my eyes firmly closed during this scene. I thought it was quite graphic, but extremely well written with a lot of information about the worm which does not slow down the narrative. Also not really having a context for the one scene, for all intents and purposes , the one being tortured is called an "assassin" so he's presumably a bad guy and therefore probably deserving of his fate.t

[Quantum]

for the degree of graphic gore, it's firmly on the middle path of urban fantasy. to take it to a higher level, you would focus on the sounds that the worm makes when partaking of its meal. for comparison, i'd say that it's at the same level of your opening scene in your previous novel in the series. consequently, the reader cringe reactions are probably based more on the subject matter, the worm, rather than the degree of gore.

[Graeme]

J.J. wrote: "It didn't seem too bad to me. When you talk about graphic, I always hold up movies like Hostel as the standard for over-the-top graphic."

Thanks J.J. That's a good point. As it turns out, I haven't seen Hostel, or movies like Saw - just too graphic for me. But I can imagine, and I very much get your point.

[Graeme]

Michael wrote: "The X shaped frame is actually called a St. Andrew's cross if you werent aware. I actually have a torture scene in my novel with a St. Andrew's cross... lol

Reminiscent of the "Wrath of Khan" sce..."

Hi Michael. Well, I just learned something truly new. I didn't know it had a name and I just looked it up on wiki and got the BDSM angle.

I have a copy of your novel, I'll keep my eye open for the St. Andrew's cross when I read it.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Graeme]

Joanna wrote: "If your novel is made into a movie, I will keep my eyes firmly closed during this scene. I thought it was quite graphic, but extremely well written with a lot of information about the worm which do..."

Hi Joanna. I find your reaction very interesting. Sounds like you would look away, but then come back to see what happened next. Which would put you on my audience boundary.

I have a sister who tried to read my first book and stopped at the inciting incident which is a torture scene and didn't go on.

As to who is the hero and who is the villain of the piece, you will have to read the book to find out. :-).

[Graeme]

Alex G wrote: "for the degree of graphic gore, it's firmly on the middle path of urban fantasy. to take it to a higher level, you would focus on the sounds that the worm makes when partaking of its meal. for comp..."

Hi Alex,

Thanks for the feedback. That's very encouraging. Spot on about the torture scene in Ch 1, Book 1.

I think you're right about how the scene could be "enhanced", through the use of sound.

[Daniel J.]

Graeme, while this is certainly bloody and will cause some readers to squirm, I can’t imagine anyone would stop reading because of this scene. This scene also seems to have an explicit purpose within in the context of the story, so no one can accuse of being gratuitously violent. Also, this section is relatively short, so even readers who really don’t like this kind of thing won’t have to suffer for very long. Overall, I wouldn’t worry about this scene being too gory.

Since you’ve opened yourself up to comments, I do want to ask: Is Al Far dead at the end of this scene? He is referred to as a corpse at the very end, but General Haras says that it takes a long time for a victim to die when the death worm enters through the abdomen. I realize that I’m likely just missing something, since I’m only being exposed to one scene, but I thought I would ask.

I apologize for getting off topic.

[Quantum]

Daniel J. wrote: "Since you’ve opened yourself up to comments, I do want to ask: Is Al Far dead at the end of this scene?"

don't answer, Graeme! no spoilers! ^_-

[Joanna]

Graeme you must not answer the above question. I just went to your author page to see when this novel is likely to be published, and I will be purchasing it when it is. So, keep me hooked till then, please. Want to read more about the Mongolian worm. Looked that up, too on wikipedia. That's enough to disrupt my sweet dreams for a couple of nights. Very, very clever, creative way to suck people in Graeme haha !!!! I like it.

[Quantum]

Joanna wrote: "Graeme you must not answer the above question. I just went to your author page to see when this novel is likely to be published, and I will be purchasing it when it is. So, keep me hooked till then..."

great minds think alike.

[Graeme]

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for the great feedback. What can I say, except that the full meaning of this scene is revealed in the book.

(Alex, Joanna - good advice).

[Mike]

I agree- a little reminiscent of The Wrath of Khan. A scene that made me close my eyes when I was a kid. But you're certainly not crossing any kind of line. If it was considered suitable for Trekkies in 1982, I'm sure it's fine for 2016.

[Graeme]

Thanks Mike.

[Al]

Graeme Rodaughan wrote: "Hi all,

looking for comments on a torture scene I have written. The first reader found it a "bit disturbing" in a potentially negative way.

Looking for some constructive feedback.

Of course - so..."

You might want to try this: I'm coming up on a torture scene in my current book (sequel to "Last Train from Earth"). Instead of a blow-by-blow, I'm going to just cut in during a respite of the overall torture -- in other words, just alluding to the torture without making my readers wade through the mess.

Reminds me of an episode from NCIS. Ziva is all beat up AFTER being tortured and the scene is mostly about how she's rescued.

[Graeme]

Al wrote: "You might want to try this: I'm coming up on a torture scene in my current book (sequel to "Last Train from Earth"). Instead of a blow-by-blow, I'm going to just cut in during a respite of the overall torture -- in other words, just alluding to the torture without making my readers wade through the mess. ..."

That's a great technique too.

[M.L.]

It's a good scene, I didn't think it was too disturbing. On the other hand, for my personal tastes less is more. I actually had more tension in the build up before he pulled the worm out. The way it ate in reminded me of the movie Alien.

The one thing that I didn't think fit as far as suspending disbelief, was that he put a heavy glove on his hand and reached inside and searched around then pulls out this thrashing thing. The MW has sharp fangs and is extremely deadly. Would he really tempt fate and stick a gloved hand and search blindly for that kind of creature? Maybe, but in my mind I'm thinking he wouldn't do that. Dump it on the floor, pick it up with a hook. I tend to be practical though!

[Quantum]

M.L. Roberts wrote: "The one thing that I didn't think fit as far as suspending disbelief, was that he put a heavy glove on his hand and reached inside and searched around then pulls out this thrashing thing."

excellent point! (i was thinking the same thing when reading it but then promptly forgot.) ?_?

[Daniel J.]

Graeme Rodaughan wrote: "Hi Daniel,

Thanks for the great feedback. What can I say, except that the full meaning of this scene is revealed in the book."

I figured as much. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't an unintentional continuity error. I went into beta reader mode and couldn't stop myself.

[Graeme]

M.L. and Alex,

Cool observation.

I was thinking that given that Haras is a vampire and an ex Red Empire Assassin. That he is using a combo of Vampire speed, and Red Empire knowledge to pluck the larva out of the sand.

He can't allow skin on skin contact as the death worms are bad news for humans or vampires.

Perhaps I could just put a few words in to clarify that.

[Graeme]

Daniel,

All good.

The surrounding scenes provide the essential context. Of course they would also constitute a major spoiler if revealed here.

[Michael]

https://youtu.be/3i42Smtbmeg

"Wrath of Khan" scene... for anyone with the stomach to watch... lol

[Mike]

poor Chekhov.

[[deleted user]]

Graeme, I would say that your torture scene was okay with me: not gratuitous and in context, plus you didn't go overboard in the gory details. Those who would object to it should simply not read about war, historical times or fantasy adventures.

I myself had to describe torture scenes in five of my novels, but they were there because of the historical context (Gestapo questioning a prisoner in 1941; a spy tortured by enemies in 1651 France; a reporter tortured by the Pakistani Intelligence services in 2015; a woman accused of witchcraft tortured by the Church in 861; and a man tortured for information by the security ministry of a future empire). In all cases, the scenes simply accorded to the realities of those eras/situations and were not written just to provide cheap thrills for readers. What would be objectionable in my opinion would be entire chapters or even major portions of a story concentrated solely on long, graphic descriptions of torture techniques and their effects on the victims. Then, that would become a BDSM novel, or horror 'thriller', no more.

[Graeme]

Hi Michel,

Your comment makes perfect sense to me.

[Graeme]

Mike wrote: "poor Chekhov."

I was going "poor Chekov" too when I saw that scene.

[M.L.]

Alex G wrote: "M.L. Roberts wrote: "The one thing that I didn't think fit as far as suspending disbelief, was that he put a heavy glove on his hand and reached inside and searched around then pulls out this thras..."

It's actually good that you forgot!

[M.L.]

Graeme Rodaughan wrote: "M.L. and Alex,

Cool observation.

I was thinking that given that Haras is a vampire and an ex Red Empire Assassin. That he is using a combo of Vampire speed, and Red Empire knowledge to pluck the..."

I think it's fine as is and the majority of readers didn't notice. I kind of thought he was a vampire when he said he'd already 'fed'; sort of a vampire term. Good luck, sound like a winner!