Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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Fair Play
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All's Fair re-read challenge: Fair Play
That's an interesting observation about the Tucker/Adam relationship.In Fair Game, Elliot muses on "This wordless, instinctive sexual compatibility that enabled each to give the other exactly what he wanted, what he needed." Doesn't that say it all?
Mymymble wrote: "This is really quite an extraordinary series. It's third person but it's entirely from Elliot's unreliable, almost autistic spectrum mindset. ..."I have to take issue with the idea of Elliot being anywhere near the autism spectrum. (I’m no expert on autism, so take this as you will.) To be reserved, emotionally distant, and out of touch with one’s own emotions -- that smacks of normality to me.
Elliot is bad at communing with his own inner depths, but he’s good with people. For a law enforcement guy, at least. And he’s certainly better with people than Tucker is.
For example, in Fair Game, when the two of them meet with Tom Baker, Elliot is unruffled by Baker’s hostility and verbal aggression. It’s Tucker who loses it and returns the aggression, needling Baker into blowing up, then wrestling him to the ground with the intention of handcuffing him. Not Mr. Tactful with the bereaved parent, that’s for sure.
And in Fair Play, Elliot copes so easily during that uber-awkward dinner with Tova and Ed. They’re baffled as to why he’s even there, but Elliot helps keep things running smoothly. Again, Tucker is the one who loses his cool, giving Tova that verbal smack-down after she pressures him about meeting his non-existant girlfriend. (Go Tucker! I just love that bit.) Elliot is there as a quiet, supportive, and calming presence. I definitely rate him higher than Tucker on the everyday people-skills scale.
Actually I identify a lot with Elliot (although I like to think I’m not quite as clueless about myself). I enjoy spending time with a character who’s self-contained, analytical, and independent. He reminds me of me. :)
If these characters weren't so interesting, and so engaging, we wouldn't be speculating about them like this. It's all part of the fun. :)
Oh, I'm sorry, Mymymble. I had a mentally ill parent, plus a handful of family members who suffer from depression, so I know it can be rough. I can't say my relatives are lovely, though -- they're all too ornery for that. ;)And I was wondering if diagnostic criteria were playing a role in our different takes on Elliot. Now that I see that you're in the UK (I'm in the US), that seems quite possible.
Nah, I'm fine. When I first learned about Asperger's syndrome, I wondered about myself... But it's pretty obvious I'm not on the spectrum. I do feel an affinity for some of the high-functioning, nerdy-type folks who are, though.I just read Special Forces, so to see that you identify with Vadim was a little disconcerting, until I saw your parenthetical disclaimer. LOL ;)
Did I like Special Forces? It was magnificent. A magnificent mess, sure, so flawed, and such an editing disaster that it was sometimes a terrible challenge to read. But still -- magnificent. (And I really, really would like to get my hands on the cleaned-up version that Voinov produced but which doesn't seem to be available anymore.)
About SF...Just a very quick recommendation there is a novella about Vadiam son Nikola, there is a lovely bit with Vadiam in it and the father son relationship it's call Gold Digger.It's a favourite reread of mine.
Thanks, Kim -- I've seen Gold Digger on the list of Voinov's books but didn't realize the tie-in.And I should have specified that I've only read the first book, Soldiers. I need to recover from that one and brace myself for more suffering (the characters' suffering, hopefully not mine!) before I'll be able to continue. :)
Oh dear...well I loved Solders..but the others are very tough at times.But Gold Digger is very low angst and it will make you smile, plus Nikola is adorable with Vadiam.
Teal wrote: "And I should have specified that I've only read the first book, Soldiers. I need to recover from that one and brace myself for more suffering (the characters' suffering, hopefully not mine!) before I'll be able to continue. :)"I loved the first book. It was a mess, but I loved it. And then I started the second and suffered throughout the first half, when I thought the worst was over, only to discover it was just the beginning.
I’m in the minority that thinks the series took a bad turn in the second book. I tried to push through, but I loved Vadim and Dan so much and I couldn’t stomach what the authors did with them.
I was so disappointed, every time I think about it I get sad and mad all over again. I hope you'll love it, though, so many others did.
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I have to take issue with the id..."
I agree with this. Elliot is simply reserved and quiet -- emotionally cautious. He's someone who opted for pursuing civil rights cases at the Bureau, so he is most definitely concerned about both the rights and even the feelings of other people.
He's socially adept*, though not a big party guy. Certainly he was more outgoing before the shooting.
It's also true that he remains disengaged about teaching. He's trying to make that work.
*Edited to add: for law enforcement. ;-)
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He lost a relationship that he had believed might be serious. Not just lost, believes he was let down very badly, even brutally by someone he was starting to care for.
He's still in physical pain, lonely, and trying to adjust to a life he didn't want. He's trying to build a new life for himself, but it's not the life he wanted. So to some extent he is behaving by rote, he's going through the motions, but he is not his normal or at least his former self as the series begins.
By Fair Play he's on much more emotionally solid ground, but he still misses his job. And he's partnered with a guy who still HAS that job. So it's challenging.
I remember this from Fair Game:After his shooting, Elliot had deliberately distanced himself from his old friends and colleagues; it had been too painful to be around them.
What a lonely guy. I find him a very sympathetic character -- probably in part because he just tried to get on with his life with a minimum of fuss or drama. Well, until Tucker showed up again, and then it was Drama Central. But in a very satisfying way. ;)
I'm really, really hoping Elliot's going to be happy with his life at the end of Fair Chance. If not, I can guarantee there will be some pouting.
Elena wrote: "I’m in the minority that thinks the series took a bad turn in the second book. I tried to push through, but I loved Vadim and Dan so much and I couldn’t stomach what the authors did with them ..."I’m concerned about that, Elena. I am actually considering not reading the remaining books. When the first one ended the way it did, I could barely believe there were 3 more books -- 1300 more pages -- 15 more years -- before I'd get to an HEA! So much more suffering to endure -- I'm not sure I'm cut out for it.
So when I finished Soldiers, I decided to just pretend they’d died at the end. Crazy, isn't it, to love something so much and yet want it to be over? For now, that little piece of make-believe is working. Maybe in the future I'll be ready to imagine them back to life and pick up the next book. But I’m leery of having the story ruined, because I know you’re not the only one who was angry with the sequels.
I don't think it's crazy Teal. I have learned through hard lessons that sometimes I have to stop reading a series if I know that I'm going to
Anyway I think for me Elliot and Tucker have something magical. I totaly can imagine that I will re-read this series over and over and learn something new every time. :)If I have to choose then my 3 favourite couples by Josh are: Adrien/Jake, Elliot/Tucker and Kit/JX. But those 3 couples I suppose I can have somehow gotten under my skin. Just so good, even when it's so sad.
Are we going to talk favorite couples? I'm in! :) My 3 favorites are Elliot/Tucker, Will/Taylor, and -- although it's kind of early to say this, I really think it's going to be true -- Jason/Sam. The latter have only one book so far (The Mermaid Murders), but Josh is hard at work on the second one and I am so looking forward to it.
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If you're looking for copies of the books, join his GR group. Someone there can get them to you. I asked Aleks once and that was the answer I got.
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I admit to being surprised by Eliot's need for dominance in book two, because we don't really get that in book one, for all the reasons Josh said. I'm really excited to see where all this goes in three.
Teal wrote: "So when I finished Soldiers, I decided to just pretend they’d died at the end. Crazy, isn't it, to love something so much and yet want it to be over? For now, that little piece of make-believe is working. Maybe in the future I'll be ready to imagine them back to life and pick up the next book. But I’m leery of having the story ruined, because I know you’re not the only one who was angry with the sequels."Like K. said, not crazy at all. I did something similar when I gave up on the series in the middle of the second book. I decided that the story ended a little before that, when for me they were in a good enough place and what was written after that stopped existing in my mind.
If I’d known what was coming, I would have stopped at the first book. I read the revised version and that one ended just before (view spoiler).
So you don’t need to imagine them dead if you don’t want to, you can just leave them there. ;-)
I know authors can do what they want with their characters, but when I fall in love with a book the characters become a little bit mine too and reading is my happy place, I don’t want to feel bad for days after reading a book. I can watch the news for that.
K. wrote: "If I have to choose then my 3 favourite couples by Josh are: Adrien/Jake, Elliot/Tucker and Kit/JX."Same for me, at least for now.
Jordan wrote: "Oh Vadim. I don't know why I love him so much, but I really do."Me too. He’s always being my favorite of the two and, considering the opening scene of the series, it made me wonder if I should be worried about it. :D
Jordan wrote: "I admit to being surprised by Eliot's need for dominance in book two, because we don't really get that in book one, for all the reasons Josh said. I'm really excited to see where all this goes in three."I was surprised more by the extent of Elliot’s need for dominance. From book one I had the impression that the D/S dynamic between them was more subtle, probably because it was mentioned, but we didn’t see it in action.
Teal wrote: "Are we going to talk favorite couples? I'm in! :) My 3 favorites are Elliot/Tucker, Will/Taylor, and -- although it's kind of early to say this, I really think it's going to be true -- Jason/Sam...."
I'm with you about Sam/Jason, Teal! I love them.
So my three favourites... I only can have three?? Adrien/Jake, Kit/J.X and Jason/Sam :)
Rosa wrote: "Teal wrote: "Are we going to talk favorite couples? I'm in! :) My 3 favorites are Elliot/Tucker, Will/Taylor, and -- although it's kind of early to say this, I really think it's going to be true ..."
Elliot/Tucker, Will/Taylor, and Swift/Max
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My 3 favorites are Elliot/Tucker, Will/Taylor, and -- although it's kind of early to say this, I really think it's going to be true ..."
You COULD have more than three. Of course. But if you did, where would the list end? So, many top three would be a better title?
Swift and Max are definitely on my top list along with Adrien and Jake. Not sure who else makes up my top three though... that's tough.
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Me too. He’s always being my favorite of the two and, considering the opening scene of the series, it made me wonder..."
He's my favorite between the two as well. Which is so odd, because I love Scotland, I have a very good friend named Dan... Kilts... drool... but yeah, Vadim all the way. :-D
well, at least we can worry together. ;-)
K. wrote: "If I have to choose then my 3 favourite couples by Josh are:..."Def Elliot and Tucker, Adrien and Jake, and Kit and J.X. - no question!
The three series with my favorite couples are ALL getting a new book this year: All's Fair, The Art of Murder, and Dangerous Ground. I feel extremely fortunate! It's so nice to have things to look forward in the midst of a bleak 2017. Thank you, Josh!
Elena wrote: "...when I fall in love with a book the characters become a little bit mine too and reading is my happy place, I don’t want to feel bad for days after reading a book. I can watch the news for that."Exactly! Why would I pay money for books that will make me miserable when I can be miserable for free??? I’ve had my heart broken by so many books that nowadays when I read a blurb or a review that claims a book will break my heart, I'm outta there. No way am I reading it.
I don’t want characters to suffer the tortures of the damned*, but I can’t stand sappy-happy either. That leaves a lot of middle ground, and Josh’s books hit the sweet spot for me. Sometimes she delivers the emotional equivalent of a kick from a horse -- but at least I never feel like I'm being dragged through the very bowels of hell.
*I knew going in that Soldiers would be outside my comfort zone, but I’m trying to familiarize myself with the big, well-known m/m series. With “trying” being the operative word there -- is Cut & Run really as poorly written as the amazon sample of the first book seems to be? If so, I’ll never make it through. Sorry if I opened up a can of worms with that question. Okay, maybe not really sorry. ;)
what what what!?! You think Cut & Run is poorly written? That is one of the best MM series of all time - you've got to stick it out though because the characters and their relationship builds over time - this is not an insta thing at all. It is sooo worth it, don't give up!trigger alert though - serious angst!
Trio, I really WANT it to be good, but all I have to go by so far is the sample, which made me leery. Since I can't afford to buy every book I want to try (LOL -- who can?), I've been dragging my feet on this one. But I'm practically salivating at the prospect of such a long series...
Please don't hit me, but when I was talking about stopping reading a series. Then one of the series I was thinking about was Cut&Run. I don't think the first book is very well written..but regardless of that this series can get a hold of you and keep you interested. I wish I stopped reading after Stars & Stripes. This is one of those series that went for me so bad, that I can't even manage to re-read the good books in there. I highly doubt that I'll ever read another book by this author.
Yes I just think about the Cut and Run books finishing at Stars and Strips as well.
K. wrote: "Please don't hit me, but when I was talking about stopping reading a series. Then one of the series I was thinking about was Cut&Run. I don't think the first book is very well written..but regardle..."I just had a look, and: wow, there are so many more installments after I stopped reading the series. I never got past #4. #5 was a definite dnf for me. And I never went back. But: the first volumes were very enjoyable! I read them very early in my mm-reading-carreer and they swept me away. Still, for me it ended after four books in.
K. wrote: "I don't think the first book is very well written..but regardless of that this series can get a hold of you and keep you interested."Exactly. The writing isn't very good, but, if you connect with the story, I think this series has the potential to easily become a favorite for a lot of people, like it did.
I stopped reading after the book before Stars & Stripes, I just wasn't interested enough to continue for other five books. I'm glad I did, if you say it went bad later.
K. wrote: "This is one of those series that went for me so bad, that I can't even manage to re-read the good books in there. I highly doubt that I'll ever read another book by this author."
I hate when this happens, it's so frustrating.
As for favourite couples in Josh Lanyon series... there are Adrien/Jake and Kit/J.X., obviously. As for the third one... hm, I wouldn't be able to tell. They all are intriguing. Elliot/Tucker or Jason/Sam. And I still have some hope for Flynn/Kirk from Haunted Heart.
Favourite for me are Taylor and Will, Kit and JX and Elliot and Tucker.Though it took me a couple of rereads and the audio book to get over thinking Kit was annoying and whinny and to start loving his character.
Elena wrote: "K. wrote: "I stopped reading after the book before Stars & Stripes, I just wasn't interested enough to continue for other five books. I'm glad I did, if you say it went bad later."What is bad for me, can be totaly awesome for someone else. There are lots of people who think that this series never went bad.
Kim wrote: "Favourite for me are Taylor and Will, Kit and JX and Elliot and Tucker.Though it took me a couple of rereads and the audio book to get over thinking Kit was annoying and whinny and to start loving..."
I think Kit won me over right away.I thought he was really funny. with re-reads his character has just gotten more depth.
K. wrote: "What is bad for me, can be totaly awesome for someone else. There are lots of people who think that this series never went bad."True. I wasn't enthusiastic even before that though, so the possibility of it getting worse doesn't really make me want to give it a try.
What was that ruined it for you? If you can explain it without losing too much time, I'm just curious.
(under spoiler so we don't ruin the series for the ones who haven't read it and so that we don't hijack this topic even more)
Getting back to Elliot, I was thinking about his teaching, the fact that he misses his old job and that it’s been already two books that he keeps telling himself and people around him that he likes teaching, while feeling restless. There’s this undercurrent, like he’s not really committed to his teaching job. He’s doing it to the best of his abilities and maybe he really likes it, but he doesn’t love it. Do you think in the end he’ll come to terms once and for all with his mixed feelings and he’ll be happy in his teaching career without feeling like something is missing or he’ll find something else that he loves doing as much as he did being an FBI agent?
I think it could go either way, like whatever happens in the third book could be the catalyst for a big career change or for him to finally accept that that part of his life is over and really settle in his teaching career, but I can’t shake the feeling that he’ll take another path.
Elena wrote: "K. wrote: "What is bad for me, can be totaly awesome for someone else. There are lots of people who think that this series never went bad."True. I wasn't enthusiastic even before that though, so ..."
The main reason why it went bad for me was the choice the author made. (view spoiler)
K. wrote: "Elena wrote: "K. wrote: "What is bad for me, can be totaly awesome for someone else. There are lots of people who think that this series never went bad."True. I wasn't enthusiastic even before th..."
Wow. That's certainly a way to ruin a series.
I hope that Elliot will find peace with the way his life is now or change it enough to be happy with his job. Maybe a job change? About teaching job. I have a lot of respect for teachers. My mom was a teacher and she was totaly into it...maybe even too much. She wanted to teach, cared about her students. I'm not saying that Elliot is a bad teacher, but I'm not getting that sense of commitment. On second thought maybe it's a good thing that Elliot doesn't care so much.
I hope that the third book will give Elliot closure. So that he could move on.
I really really really want Elliot back at the FBI. However much he thinks he doesn't want a desk job there, he's been solving their cases for them! Finding a serial killer, finding an agent who disappeared decades ago... It seems like the job he was born to do. :(
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well Fish & Chips and Stars & Stripes were the best, I agree... but K. don't stop reading Abi Roux - give According To Hoyle a try, I think you'd like it :)okay back to Elliot. One of the things I've loved in these books is Elliot's cooking. I love how Elliot takes care of Tucker that way. Anyhow, you know how at the end of some of his books Alexis Hall puts in the recipe? I wish I could get Elliot's recipe for the cheesy mashed potatoes and I think there was a salmon recipe too - I'm going to scan through the books and make a note and see if we can coax Josh into giving them to us.
Q&A with Josh Lanyon
Books mentioned in this topic
Fair Chance (other topics)All I Want for Christmas: Holiday Codas Vols. 1 & 2 (other topics)
According To Hoyle (other topics)
Stars & Stripes (other topics)
Fish & Chips (other topics)
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I freaked out because Elliot freaked out. And then, the word that reassured him was Dominance. Gah! For me, that word upped the threat level. It’s fight or flight time! So while Elliot happily gave himself up to the moment, I was left stranded on red alert, with no resolution, wondering what the hell had just happened.
Since then I’ve read a couple hundred more m/m stories, and have repeatedly encountered BDSM themes -- they’re so common they’re hard to avoid. I could say I understand better about their sexual dynamic -- but I should put “understand” in quotes, because it’s a purely conceptual understanding. I’ve accepted that I’ll never get it -- but sometimes, with a good author, I can almost get it.
When I read this book the second time... What I saw then was that verbal communication had completely broken down between them, so Tucker resorted to non-verbal communication. And on that common ground they were able to find their way back to each other and openly address some of their most painful issues. And I can almost get it... but really the best I can do is to just be happy that they’re happy. :)