Struggles with promoting

[Michelle]

Authors, whether independently or traditionally published, what has been your biggest challenge when promoting? What's failed, hasn't done much for you, or has actually benefited?

[Justin]

I'd like to say that I've had success in promoting but if that means getting sales I'm lacking. I've tried my share of promotions and have had some positives.

Twitter in some ways has helped, my determination this year makes me hopeful. I take part in webinars, interviews, guest posts and really just anything that will help notability.

What hasn't worked is book tours, I've done two here on this group and they didn't go well. Also giveaways I don't do well and I have a hard time promoting events for books. Again despite all these lacking abilities my drive and determination is still positive.

[Michelle]

Justin wrote: "I'd like to say that I've had success in promoting but if that means getting sales I'm lacking. I've tried my share of promotions and have had some positives.

Twitter in some ways has helped, my ..."

Yeah, I completely understand that. I find that it's not promoting that's hard, it's finding resourceful promoting. There's a lot of hit and misses out there. I hear mailing lists are a very effective way to boost sales. I recently opened one myself. I'll also try Facebook ads and will post later on how they've worked for me. I was actually thinking about blog tours, even though they seem very time consuming to get started on. Oh, well. Keep up with what's working for you, Justin. :)

[Alicia]

I want to try the ads on Amazon, but I have two problems.

1) I never look at them myself, so readers like me may do the same.

2) every time I try to read the page on Amazon describing how to set them up, I panic and leave - I just cannot understand it! And I did all the formatting, etc., for my debut novel. My brain refuses the jump.

I'll get it one of these days, but meanwhile I've got an ad coming in TheFussyLibrarian, Jan. 20. We'll see if it does anything.

[T.R.]

For most authors Marketing and Promoting are not natural occupations. And as Alicia states, the advertising process can be confusing and off-putting. Of course, for many the lack of resources also has a very real impact.

The other factor is trying to find where the 'readers' are. So often the advertising sites we authors are pointed toward are dominated by fellow authors. Okay, we are all readers but the potential for sales is markedly reduced when only communicating with fellow authors.

[Hazuki]

As an aspiring author who'd one day like to be published, this is something I'm interested in. I know this isn't quite related but is there anything people could warn me about publishing/promoting? :)

[Rita]

I don't do Twitter but I joined AskDavid on the recommendation of some of the authors on Goodreads. It only cost $20 but I've been with them over three weeks for Dangerous Associations and haven't had one sale. I think giveaways on Goodreads are a good way of getting your books noticed, although it doesn't necessarily convert to sales.

[Michelle]

Alicia wrote: "I want to try the ads on Amazon, but I have two problems.

1) I never look at them myself, so readers like me may do the same.

2) every time I try to read the page on Amazon describing how to set ..."
Alicia, have you looked into Facebook ads? I've done a few and seem to get some notice that way. I'm going to look into TheFussyLibrarian. :)

[Michelle]

exfairy wrote: "As an aspiring author who'd one day like to be published, this is something I'm interested in. I know this isn't quite related but is there anything people could warn me about publishing/promoting? :)"
Exfairy, just be savvy when it comes to paying for marketing. There's a lot of scammers out there. One thing an author should never do, in my opinion, is PAY for reviews. Writers work too hard on their books to give money over for someone to "read" it. If you dig in, you'll find plenty of legit reviewers to submit to. Also, it's good to start a marketing platform now and work to build relationships and an audience before your book comes out, i.e a healthy email list. Hope this helps. :)

Alicia wrote: "I want to try the ads on Amazon, but I have two problems.

1) I never look at them myself, so readers like me may do the same.

2) every time I try to read the page on Amazon describing how to set ..."

[Lisa]

Facebook ad was a total miss for me. I found that promoting my brand on Twitter and Facebook helps. I also do guest interviews where I can and approach book bloggers. I had a flyer put up at main library. Book tours are a hit or miss. I started writing articles for sites and magazines so I can tag my info to them. But sales are still weak. Keep plugging along I guess.

[Alicia]

Michelle wrote: "Alicia, have you looked into Facebook ads? I've done a few and seem to get some notice that way. ..."

What do you write, Michelle?

I write literary fiction - a mainstream contemporary love story. I think my primary market would be women 40-70 (though I have wonderful male readers and reviewers, and young women, too).

I think FB ads appear on mobile users' screens, and the demographic I believe is most likely to buy my book doesn't necessarily use FB on their phones.

No point in advertising where the users don't read your kind of book.

[Alicia]

Lisa wrote: "Facebook ad was a total miss for me. I found that promoting my brand on Twitter and Facebook helps. I also do guest interviews where I can and approach book bloggers. I had a flyer put up at main l..."

What do you write, Lisa?

Marketing on Twitter isn't me - I have a few tweets out there accidentally, but never go there myself. They tell me (people who use twitter) than most promotion there is just blatant 'buy my book' and they don't get much there.

I have to stand out from the crowd - which also means marketing differently - because I will write few books, and they're going to be big fat contemporary novels.

I'm getting my first writing gig with a possibility of having readers notice my book and click on the cover of the first novel coming up this month - the women (and men) who use this website are definitely in my target audience; I just don't know if they will buy books because they like what I say. I will find out soon.

It's a book that needs to go viral, from an extremely introverted author who can't go out and market - no radio, no conventions, no physical tours. Can't - not won't.

So it has to be about the story and the writing. And for that I need to get a bigger audience than the one I've attracted so far.

It's every author's problem after publishing the first novel nowadays.

There are techniques that work for writers who can put out 3-4 books a year in a series... Pride's Children: PURGATORY took FIFTEEN years to write and publish.

I know what I'm up against, but not how to scale the wall: I have to learn where the handholds are.

[James]

you could always start with short stories. in todays uber busy world, anyone that can crank out a page or two of interesting stuff is more likely to be noticed than long drawn out stories. it pays to think in flash cards

[Hazuki]

Michelle wrote: "exfairy wrote: "As an aspiring author who'd one day like to be published, this is something I'm interested in. I know this isn't quite related but is there anything people could warn me about publi..."

Thanks Michelle! I need to actually finish at least one of my books before I think about this (one of my goals for this year actually) but it's good to know in advance :)

[Michelle]

Alicia wrote: "Michelle wrote: "Alicia, have you looked into Facebook ads? I've done a few and seem to get some notice that way. ..."

What do you write, Michelle?

I write literary fiction - a mainstream contemp..."
I write fiction, sci-fi, steampunk/fantasy. Yeah, marketing is tough, especially for us writers who just wanna write. ;) Keep at it!

[Michelle]

Jim wrote: "you could always start with short stories. in todays uber busy world, anyone that can crank out a page or two of interesting stuff is more likely to be noticed than long drawn out stories. it pays ..."
Short stories are a good way to get notice, especially if you can get them into magazines. Writing articles on the subject(s) you're writing in can also be beneficial. So I hear. I need to actually give that one a try. :)

[Michelle]

exfairy wrote: "Michelle wrote: "exfairy wrote: "As an aspiring author who'd one day like to be published, this is something I'm interested in. I know this isn't quite related but is there anything people could wa..."

Sure thing!

[Doemar]

It's just now occurred to me that any short story I've read in a magazine did not prompt me to look for that author as far as novels go. I'm usually reading those on the fly in some waiting room and other than a few thoughts now and then about the story, they are forgotten.

[Michelle]

Doemar wrote: "It's just now occurred to me that any short story I've read in a magazine did not prompt me to look for that author as far as novels go. I'm usually reading those on the fly in some waiting room an..."
It gives authors bragging rights. Getting short stories published acts sort of like adding a new skill to your resume. Like actors in TV commercials, it's all a part of trying to get noticed. :)

[Nicki]

I've always found the promoting side hard in terms of knowing the best cost-effective ways to get your message to the right people. This year I plan to release more free reads via my new Tablo page. At the end of each I'll include links to some of my 'for sale' titles. Maybe if someone really enjoys one of the free read short stories, they'll check out my novellas too. I can only try! I'm also looking to increase my interactions on social media and include more varied content on my blog.

[Tana]

Hi Everyone, I love this thread and all the comments.

If anyone can think of a way this group can help with more promoting please let me know and I will try to figure out if its possible.

[Doemar]

Michelle wrote: "It gives authors bragging rights. Getting short stories published acts sort of like adding a new skill to your resume. Like actors in TV commercials, it's all a part of trying to get noticed. :)"

I know, but I was thinking about it in terms of promotion value and from my reader perspective, it isn't of much value. It may be to others.

[Michelle]

Tana wrote: "Hi Everyone, I love this thread and all the comments.

If anyone can think of a way this group can help with more promoting please let me know and I will try to figure out if its possible."

I know reviews can be a big help. For fiction writers, this site may help find some that are accepting submissions. https://bookreviewdirectory.com/ficti...
I haven't tried this just yet, 'cause I'm waiting for my publisher to release my book digitally, but there's Slideshare where people can advertise their products. http://www.slideshare.net/

[Justin]

I have marketing info in e-mails(A ton in G-Mail), videos and webinars to watch, Twitter, Pinterest, a notebook full of notes I took from videos and webinars...so yeah I have lots of marketing and promotion info now I just got to plan it out and have time to utilize it.

[Jim]

Various promotional tools have been in place to promote my novel since its release. How they have, individually or combined, directly influenced overall sales, if at all, I could not say.

Website: 5 pages: Book blurb - Author's bio. - Excerpts - Events - Communication.

Personal Appearances: Formal presentations and/or book signings at book stores, public libraries and private book clubs.

Customized Business Cards, Posters, Book Marks: Posted in book stores and public libraries or distributed during personal appearances.

Blog: Writing, Publishing, Reading, and Life in General. Posted on literary websites and updated frequently.

Literary Websites: Interaction with fellow readers and writers; limiting promotion to only those discussion threads specifically designated by the moderator for that purpose.

Giveaways: Two - 18 months apart. Both on the Goodreads literary website.

[T.R.]

I read earlier (forgotten where among all the e-mails etc. I am ploughing through) that Kindle published over 1,000,000 books last year. The article also stated, as a consequence of the high volume of new publications, even 'established' authors are getting less attention time. It is obviously going to be increasingly difficult for indie authors to get public attention, let alone sale their books. But we must go on and there is always the chance one of our books will somehow gain recognition.

[Nicki]

Yeah, that's the only problem. Digital/indie publishing has opened the door for anyone from any background and with any story to publish their work, and that's great. However, it also means that there are now huge numbers of books out there, so it's harder for readers to find yours amongst the pile.

[Groovy]

I agree with T.R., promoting just doesn't come natural for some authors. And a lot of times you don't have the money to hire a PR agent. Then there's trying to find your target readers and not just other authors where we talk about the perils of being an author:) (I mean that in a good way:) It gets discouraging at times, like I am now.

Giveaways are great, I like them, but I'd would like to make sales, too. And giveaways don't necessarily result in sales or reviews. I have a magnetic car sign with my website on it. It causes curiosity, but not sales.

Even getting bloggers to interview you and showcase your work is hard. That doesn't result in a lot of sales, either.

[Michelle]

Groovy wrote: "I agree with T.R., promoting just doesn't come natural for some authors. And a lot of times you don't have the money to hire a PR agent. Then there's trying to find your target readers and not just..."
Yeah, it's completely frustrating. The toughest part is to find an audience, which is the key thing. Writers are nothing without readers. Good luck, Groovy. By the by, I dig that name. :)

[Grant]

I tried the ads on Amazon and they said minimum $100! can that be right? I tried it but not sure how often I will do that..

[Marie Silk]

Yeah you have to set the budget at $100 but you can cancel the ad before it reaches the limit. They charged my bank account at random increments during the campaign which was really confusing. It was only small amounts like 2 or 4 bucks at a time.

[T.R.]

Marie wrote: "Yeah you have to set the budget at $100 but you can cancel the ad before it reaches the limit. They charged my bank account at random increments during the campaign which was really confusing. It w..."

$100 is a lot for some of us. Did you get any noticeable sells Marie?

[Marie Silk]

I posted this to another thread https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... (lots of pages to read but worth it imo if you are serious about marketing):

Here are the results from my first AMS campaign from a couple weeks ago. I chose interest based, but in hindsight think product based is probably better. I cancelled the ad early because I could see it was not making much headway and also I did not like the way my bank account was randomly debited. I assumed I would pay at the end of the campaign but they charged my bank in sporadic increments that I still don't understand.

# of Impressions: 6974
# of clicks: 54
# of unit sales from clicks: 2
Total Cost: $7.68

It's possible that I made profit if the customers went on to buy the rest of my series (since this ad linked to the first book in my series). Also, they could have read the books over Kindle Unlimited which does not show in the AMS results. I'm holding off on AMS for now. I don't know if these results are average or above or below but hopefully it helps someone :).

Just to compare the above with a boosted Facebook post to a targeted audience (not the default audience):

# of impressions (people reached): 1978
# of clicks (tracked by booklinker): 300
unknown unit sales from clicks
Total Cost: $16.79
# of engagements: 49 (this means post likes, page follows, comments on the post, tagging friends, shares)

[Grant]

I am new at this (just published my first book). So maybe I am still wearing the rose-colored glasses. Well I am eternally optimistic as a person..

But what I have done is create a game and book that hopefully will compliment each other. I spent a year + just getting that foundation stronger before the book even got finished. I am also heavily focusing on conventions, social media and book reviews and doing the KDP only route. Definitely agree that getting noticed in a sea full of other fish is a challenge and demands doing more and having a good strategy. Also all the resources from Createspace were very helpful and I compiled all of those good ideas into one marketing plan (still a work in progress).

I also keep a standing weekly agenda item scheduled where I keep posting good ideas (got a few from here now) which get posted to eventually be worked into my overall marketing plan..

Anyways I am rambling.. Hope this is helpful..

[T.R.]

Marie wrote: "I posted this to another thread https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... (lots of pages to read but worth it imo if you are serious about marketing):

Here are the re..."

Thank you for sharing the results Marie. These reflect what I have gleaned from other posts and comments seen here in GR and elsewhere. All a bit of a challenge but have seen advise encouraging authors to keep trying different options and tactics because there is usually one they will find works for them in particular. Wish you all the best with your marketing and would be interested if you find something that fits your requirements more adequately. As for me - I will keep researching and see.

[Marie Silk]

Hi T.R., these ad results were pretty minimal compared to the results I usually get with ebook marketing sites. I would say that ebook marketing sites bring in far more traffic than all of my other marketing efforts combined. It's trial and error to see which ones will work with each genre and book the best. I like using these sites to advertise my sales because they have lots of subscribers and some of them do social media blasts as well. To advertise on most of these sites, your book needs to be on sale for free or 99 cents.

[Ellie]

I don't find that marketing on social media really helps much at all. Author interview and giveaways help and so does writing posts and articles and sharing them, because people learn more about you as an Author. Sell yourself and your talents, not your book.

[Groovy]

Daccari, I hear you.

But as an introvert, I struggle with selling myself, writing posts, and other articles. I have a GR blog and a FB page, and they would disgust you. I try to be more out there, but I suck! I know it doesn't seem as if I'm a quiet person, but GR is about the only interacting I can do:)

[Ally]

I'm certainly no expert... But, prior to my writing when I was solely a reader, I found all my books via Goodreads via listopia and Amazon from other readers also bought section.

There was one blog I followed that had a calendar of upcoming book releases for that month that I also followed.

I have to admit that I've also purchased books from the fb adds too.

So, despite that I can't answer this question as an author, hopefully as a reader I can provide some insight??

[T.R.]

Marie wrote: "Hi T.R., these ad results were pretty minimal compared to the results I usually get with ebook marketing sites. I would say that ebook marketing sites bring in far more traffic than all of my other..."

Thank you for the helpful information Marie.

[T.R.]

Groovy wrote: "Daccari, I hear you.

But as an introvert, I struggle with selling myself, writing posts, and other articles. I have a GR blog and a FB page, and they would disgust you. I try to be more out there..."

You are not alone Groovy. Most authors are introverts and, like you, find it hard to put themselves 'out there' and shout about themselves. But, if we want our books to get seen, we have little choice. Start slowly and build as you progress e.g. when I started I posted in my blog once a week and shared in places like Goodreads, Facebook, Twitter weekly. Have now built some confidence to post and interact more frequently. Surprising what we learn as we move forward.

[Groovy]

That's just it, T.R. Once a week? OMG! And what do you post about? I like to think I'm a good enough writer, but posting and interacting on Social Media? I'm trembling as I write this.

I'm really trying. And the advice I read here really helps. I've become more active on my FB page, so I'm slowly progressing...

[Tana]

Alex wrote: "Can anyone recommend a professional marketing company? I'm spending far too long online instead of writing in the spare time I have."

Two authors I know well use a group call Social Butterfly PR, they are very happy with the group.

http://www.socialbutterflypr.net/about

[T.R.]

Groovy wrote: "That's just it, T.R. Once a week? OMG! And what do you post about? I like to think I'm a good enough writer, but posting and interacting on Social Media? I'm trembling as I write this.

I'm really ..."

The secret Groovy is to decide upon an emphasis (besides selling your books) for your blog. In my own case I concentrate upon information to help fellow authors as well as readers.

For authors I post about writing, marketing and publishing.

For readers: I post reviews, author interviews and anything else I think may be of interest to them

Of course, there is some overlap as authors are also readers (or should be).

In previous blogs I used to also post about abuse and domestic violence, having suffered more than my fair share of both. With my new website and integrated blog I now omit such posts as there are many other quality sites that deal with these topics.

Some will blog about their travel experiences, others about matters that interest them personally e.g Royal history; recipes; fitness etc. Readers like to know about the author as a person as well as about their stories, tales and books. So the choice is as varied as are the individuals. It is just finding something that works for you and your readers. The added advantage is if you have an interest in the topics it will not be too difficult to write interesting posts.

Hope this helps.

[Michelle]

There's been some really good advice posted here. I've gotten some ideas myself and hope others have too. :)Thanks, everyone!

[Groovy]

T.R. wrote: "Groovy wrote: "That's just it, T.R. Once a week? OMG! And what do you post about? I like to think I'm a good enough writer, but posting and interacting on Social Media? I'm trembling as I write thi..."

This is a big help, T.R., thanks:)

[Susan]

I market on Facebook, Twitter, blogs, and I am branching out to Goodreads. I have found that the best way to promote is to help others promote. I share announcements by other authors and try my best to promote them. We are a helpful group and most authors l will reciprocate. When you post on face book, you don't get what you think you will. Only 3% of your friends see your posts. If you take out a face book ad, (and you pay enough) they will boost it to 30%. If you help others and they help you, you will boost your coverage significantly. I speak everywhere I can and try to get on as many blogs as possible. Does this help? I'm not quite sure.

[Tom]

Every little helps. I published my first book in 2011 and have 13 to my name and another four, hopefully five out this year.
You are right that helping others actually aids your own cause.
But Facebook and Twitter are notoriously poor for promoting books. Of the 1,000 visitors to my main blog in Jan 2017, 12% (126) were from social media and of those 3% Pinterest, 15% Facebook, no Twitter (and that's with 10,000 followers) and 82% Stumbleupon.
The targeting is better with Stumbleupon.

You need to target your audience. I tend to use Freebie book promotions on Amazon in order to sell another book. Here's an extract from my next publication, which is all about being an indie author: -

Bear in mind this is a game of numbers.
1) When I do a FREEBIE book promotion, I can expect to sell to between 4% and 8% of my TARGET book to the those who download my FREEBIE books.
2) For people visiting my blog, that percentage drops to 2% or less.
3) If I were to do a buckshot email campaign, that’s sending emails to any email addresses I can find I can expect a return of 0.01% or even less.

You have to understand that.
Number 1 is targeted. Let’s say your book is in the genre of Science Fiction and it’s a time travel adventure. When you use a book promotion website they want a genre from you. They then send out emails to their list of people who are registered as interested in your specific genre.
Number 2 is a blogsite, WordPress is the best example, that allows you to put keywords in your blog posts. Keywords like, for example, Science Fiction. Time travel. Adventure. Those visiting your blog may, or may not be interested in your book if your blog isn’t specific to a genre. I have a general blog and two other specific blogs, Science Fiction and Paranormal. The latter two are getting more views per post than the general blog. More about blogs later.
Number 3 is not targeted at all. You’ve simply grabbed a load of emails of the web probably and wham-bam-thank-you-mam!

The extract above is from my own experience and it's tried and tested,
You can see one of my FREEBIE books below.

Good luck

Tom
Living in Cyprus: 2014

[Michelle]

Susan wrote: "I market on Facebook, Twitter, blogs, and I am branching out to Goodreads. I have found that the best way to promote is to help others promote. I share announcements by other authors and try my bes..."<

Great advice, Susan. Helping others is a good way to make connections, help fellow authors in the same boat as you, as well as build up Karma points. ;)

[Michelle]

Tom wrote: "Every little helps. I published my first book in 2011 and have 13 to my name and another four, hopefully five out this year.
You are right that helping others actually aids your own cause.
But Face..."

Thanks for this info, Tom. :) I've been contemplating whether or not to start a steampunk fantasy blog. The only thing really stopping is me finding interesting things to say. I think I'll check out StumbleUpon too.