Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
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Mod
rivka wrote: "Changed to series element 4.5. It's a novella, not a novel. Please see https://www.goodreads.com/help/show/4..."But this book is the next primary element in this series. It just happens to somewhat shorter than previous books, and so for publishing purposes is called a novella, not a novel. The explanation you have linked to seems to be about distinguishing between primary and secondary works, and Dragon's Christmas Captive is a primary work.
Mod
rivka wrote: "Not under Goodreads policy."How is that true? If Goodreads policy is that "if a series contains five primary books (#1, #2, #3, #4, #5) and a novella was published in between Book 1 and Book 2, it should be listed as 1.5," then why would a work that exists as a primary book in a series be considered not to be because of the length? That's incredibly misleading to readers. I'm generally willing to defer to the authority of the Goodreads librarians, but what do you believe the definition of a primary work is?
Mod
Later it also states: Note: These novellas should not be listed as primary, regardless of numbering used on other sites.
rivka wrote: "The first line of the Manual section in question states: Novellas and short stories should be listed using decimals. Later it also states: Note: These novellas should not be listed as primary, re..."
So if the blurb had referred to it as a 25k book or a 25k romance would you have acknowledged it as a primary installment in the series, or would you have decided that it had to be book 4.5 on the basis that it's shorter than other works in the series?
For that matter, I have a series of 6 books in which the first 5 books were novellas and the 6th book was a novel. Does that retroactively render those five novellas secondary to the rest of the series?
On Amazon and on author's web is written, that Dragon's Christmas Captive is the fifth book of the series. If you don't believe look here https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01... or here http://lynntylerbooks.com/tag/dragon-.... I think it doesn't matter how many pages the book (primary work of some series) have, when you look at Anita Blake series https://www.goodreads.com/series/4908..., some primary works (like Micah or Flirt) have just about 150-250 pages and some (like Danse Macabre or Incubus Dreams) have 517 and 722 pages. It's really funny to see the line of books from this series in bookshelf :-)
Mod
Isadora wrote: "For that matter, I have a series of 6 books in which the first 5 books were novellas and the 6th book was a novel. Does that retroactively render those five novellas secondary to the rest of the series?"
That is such an interesting one! Since we number novella-only series with whole numbers, and there's only the one novel-length, that series can stick with with whole numbers. (If more than one element of the series was novel-length, it would be different.)
Sam wrote: "On Amazon and on author's web is written, that Dragon's Christmas Captive is the fifth book of the series."
Goodreads policy clearly states that how they are listed on other sites does not matter for this policy.
What is the cut-off length for novellas vs novels then? I've heard 'under 100 pages', I've heard 'under 40k' - that is the exact definition that Goodreads uses?But let's be frank, it's fairly clear from both the phrasing of the Manual (which tellingly does not anywhere include a definition of either short story or novella), and the example given of the Expanse series, that the aim of the policy is to maintain accurate series numbering for the main series while still accounting for secondary and supplementary works in that series numbering. 'Short story' and 'novella' are useful signal terms when determining these distinctions, but they are hardly definitive, and you are doing readers a major disservice by behaving as though they are. You are misinterpreting the policy in a way that makes Goodreads less helpful for readers.
You seem to be suggesting that if a series began with novellas, but later includes multiple novel-length works, that those first elements in the series would be considered secondary. But many series get longer as they go along. You would certainly not try to claim that the first few Harry Potter books were not part of the main series on account of being much shorter than the later books (and yes, I realize that none of the Harry Potter books would be considered a novella). What will you do when I bring out book 7 in my series and it is both a novel and a continuation of the main series which began with a 117 page book?
Isadora wrote: "You are misinterpreting the policy"Rivka is staff, I'm fairly sure she had a hand in creating the policy.
lethe wrote: "Isadora wrote: "You are misinterpreting the policy"Rivka is staff, I'm fairly sure she had a hand in creating the policy."
Perhaps I was overstating, but the fact remains that what she is saying does not match what the policy appears to be saying, and is actively detrimental to the usability of the site.
I can't see that it would be detrimental to have a novella listed as say #0.5. As long as it is listed as part of the series, people will read them. I'm a Mod of a series based group and most of our over 3000 members read everything about their favourite series, regardless of whether they are novels or novellas, or even just 10 page shorts.
Sandra wrote: "I can't see that it would be detrimental to have a novella listed as say #0.5. As long as it is listed as part of the series, people will read them. I'm a Mod of a series based group and most of ..."
That's good to know. But my concern is that it is misleading to have a book marked like it's a side story when it isn't. It contradicts the core cataloguing principles of assisting in choice of book by making it easy for readers to identify and select a book based off of the bibliographic record.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...Please add this book to a new series:
Tom Brandt, #1
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
and mark this one as:
Tom Brandt, # 2
Thank you!
Thank you.