The Parlor PI's discussion
Singing in the Shrouds by Ngaio Marsh Chapters 1-3
Some observations without giving spoilers for those who haven't gotten to far yet:I really like how there's a "cast of characters" at the beginning. I have already referred to it several times while reading the first 2 chapters. I did have to look up what a draper was.
I love the titles of the chapters, the first being "Prologue with Corpse". That gave me a chuckle.
I can't wait to get to know Roderick Alleyn!
I like how Ngaio Marsh sets the scene in the first chapter, and she doesn't waste any time either! Marsh doesn't just say that 'here was the body of a dead woman found with a bouquet of fresh flowers found on her.' Like a director, Marsh motions the lens of her camera just as Police Constable Moir's flashlight motions up to the dead girl -- first to her high-heels, her nylon stockings, then to strings of pearl necklaces and a fresh bouquet of flowers on her bosom. Great effect! Definitely going to read on . . . .
I agree, LM. The only reason I stopped reading at the end of chapter 2 was because it was past my bedtime! I'm going to read more tonight.
Nicole wrote: "I really like how there's a "cast of characters" at the beginning. I have already referred to it several times while reading the first 2 chapters. I did have to look up what a draper was." I also had to look up what a draper was as well. Just to be sure I'm on point as to what a draper is, it's a retailer who sells cloth and other kinds of fabrics, right?
That's what I thought a draper was also. Sounds classier than retailer I think. I reviewed the cast of characters - thought it interesting that some people were just mentioned as "friend" or "dearest male friend." This let me mark them off my list as the potential murderer right away.
Police Constable Moir seems like he's a super smart guy...he makes the cabbie wait and then discovers the body. He could have easily just kept walking his beat without bothering to look for a lost flower delivery girl.
I couldn't figure out Mrs.Dillington-Black though...is she married or widowed? She seems really man hungry and I wondered if she was just looking for a shipboard romance or something else.
Only into the second chapter so far and I love that we are given the crimes and the scene is set from the start. Nothing worse than having to wait to half way through for anything to happen. We don't get the cast of characters with the audible version but this doesn't seem to be a problem so far.
Anastasia wrote: "Only into the second chapter so far and I love that we are given the crimes and the scene is set from the start. Nothing worse than having to wait to half way through for anything to happen. We don..."If a crime is committed halfway through the book, the writer HAS to keep the characters interesting and include some kind of mystery or subplot that will hold the reader's attention until the actual murder.
In our November book discussion we discussed the Murder, She Wrote book "A Fatal Feast" in which the murder occurred during the 13th chapter. So until the murder we got a lot of insight into the characters and much development but a mystery writer has to be careful to introduce clues and red herrings within the actions and attitudes of the characters so by the time we get to the solution everything falls neatly into place and the reader doesn't scratch his head wishing he received more from the character to possibly come to the same solution the writer did.
Good points LM. I notice that you and Tina have had some conversations about writing, are you a writer as well?
Allison wrote: "Good points LM. I notice that you and Tina have had some conversations about writing, are you a writer as well?"I write but unfortunately haven't got anything published yet. I'm working on a draft of a mystery short story right now after months of planning and outlining so I'm hoping it's good.
LovesMysteries wrote: "Allison wrote: "Good points LM. I notice that you and Tina have had some conversations about writing, are you a writer as well?"I write but unfortunately haven't got anything published yet. I'm w..."
Awesome! I admire that you and Tina have the ability to write. Good Luck to you!
I find that I much prefer the mysteries where the crime occurs at the start. After all that is the reason that we usually read mysteries, to see if we can solve the crime before the detective and this way we know what we are looking out for. I love how we are introduced to all the suspects straight away. We are told that the murderer is on board. There seems to be something suspicious about everyone. Nothing worse than the murderer turns out to be someone that only comes in at the end.
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You're not late at all Pghfan -- right on time!
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Pghfan wrote: "I also noted (though this may be in a future section) that Alleyn and Troy are now married. The only other Alleyn's I've read, and the TV shows, have them in a very slow relationship, but not married."Do you know if Alleyn and Troy ever get married on the TV show?
I didn't know there was a tv show! Maybe I can find an episode on Youtube?
Nicole wrote: "I didn't know there was a tv show! Maybe I can find an episode on Youtube?"Unfortunately there isn't an episode of Singing In The Shrouds but there are quite a few that has been made, including the first book "A Man Lays Dead" which I might re-read at some point.
Ok, I'll look. If I really like this book I will probably go and read the first book.
Nicole wrote: "Ok, I'll look. If I really like this book I will probably go and read the first book."If you like this one you're in for a treat; there are 32 books in this series!
LovesMysteries wrote: "Nicole wrote: "Ok, I'll look. If I really like this book I will probably go and read the first book."If you like this one you're in for a treat; there are 32 books in this series!"
I really liked this and will probably go back, like Nicole, and start from the beginning. I did not realize there are 32 in this series.
I think episodes of this are available at AcornTV.com. It costs $4.99 a month but I think the 1st month may be free..
Allison wrote: "I really liked this and will probably go back, like Nicole, and start from the beginning. I did not realize there are 32 in this series."I forgot to mention that there's a short story collection entitled "Death On The Air and Other Stories" of which there are three Inspector Alleyn cases included:
*Death on the Air
*I Can Find My Way Out
*Chapter and Verse: The Little Copplestone Mystery
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long ago was it, LM?
Okay, I think I recall it now. His gal pal was a painter, artist? Is that the one? Good series if that's the one I'm thinking of.
Tina wrote: "Don't want to spoil as I wait for my book but I caught the newer posts re: a series. N. marsh had a series out? Howlong ago was it, LM?
Okay, I think I recall it now. His gal pal was a painter,..."
Ngaio Marsh wrote the Inspector Roderick Alleyn series, with 32 books and 3 short stories. His wife is painter Agatha Troy whom I think he first meets in Artists In Crime.
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I bought the DVDs back in 2005 but found it to be too different to the books and the characters too different to how I had pictured them that I only watched one episode as I thought it was boring. They are still sitting in the cupboard somewhere. I much prefer the books.
They aren't available for Streaming on Netflix so I'll probably skip it. I just thought it would be interesting to see one episode but I won't go crazy looking for it.
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What do you like better: the books or the movie adaptations?
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Nicole, our public library had all the US available Alleyn episodes. Got to see them all.
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I recently read a good book then picked up the movie from the library. Within the first 7 minutes I found at least 5 discrepancies (and they altered the story in a major way). I spent the rest of the movie shaking my head!
I hope the discussion for Chapters 1-3 will linger on a bit longer. I'm almost finished and I have a lot of things to bring to the table for discussion ;)
I was thinking I'd start the next set of chapters Sunday or Monday. I'm almost done with chapter 3.
By the time we get to chapter 3, we know a little bit about some of the characters' personalities. Do you think we've met the killer yet or is he/she keeping a low profile right now? Too soon to tell, perhaps!
Pretty sure we have met the killer but it could be anyone at this stage
Well I'm assuming the killer is on board and that we've now met him/her pretty much based on the fact so many new people have been introduced in these chapters. We could also go by the cast of characters too I suppose. My thinking is that if they aren't listed they're not important...now watch me be totally wrong, lol.
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The author did say that the ship sailed with a murderer on board
Alleyn said that the murderer was not among the crew. It must be a passenger. Also, since a witness claims to have heard a male singing after the other murders, the murderer must be among the male passengers. I'm already trying to figure out which one it is! Do you think Alleyn will be able to blend in or will someone figure out he's a detective? Time will tell!
But the singing voice was high pitched and one of the female characters has a deep voice and male like qualities. I don't think we can rule out any of the passengers yet
Allison wrote: "I couldn't figure out Mrs.Dillington-Black though...is she married or widowed? She seems really man hungry and I wondered if she was just looking for a shipboard romance or something else."I'm under the impression that she's a middle-aged woman but I didn't get anything from the story whether she's married or widowed. She might have been a widow for many years and maybe her friend is encouraging her to step out and meet another man, telling her it's time to start back up again. Anyways I do love the conversation between Mrs. Cuddy and her husband in Chapter 2:
She may talk very la-de-dah, but her ideas aren't so refined." [Mrs. Cuddy]
"Reely?" [Mr. Cuddy]
"She's a man-eater." [Mrs. Cuddy]
Mr. & Mrs. Cuddy sure doesn't like Mrs. Dillington-Black! She is a very loud, talkative person unlike the Cuddy's who are quite and respectable.
I did love the "man eater" comment! I guess that expression has been around quite a while.
Well if the killer is on the boat, and if a "man" did it -- and a "passenger" at that -- these are the possible ones to look at:*Philip Merryman
*Father Charles Jourdain
*Aubyn Dale
*Mr. Cuddy
*Donald McAngus
How about we look at each one and see if there's anything odd or strange about them. Their behavior might be a clue.
I can't imagine Father Jourdain being the killer but then again it has happened.
With mysteries like this the killer -- specifically the Flower Murderer-- can be ANYONE! You can't throw out any possibility!
In Mr. & Mrs. Cuddy's conversation in Chapter 2, section 3 they speculate on Father Jourdain and his fellow cleric (who is nameless): [Mr. Cuddy:] "What did you make of the crowd, though? Funny lot, I thought."
"R.C. priests."
"Only the one. The other was seeing-off. Do you reckon R.C.?"
"Looked like it, didn't it?"
Mr. Cuddy smiled. He had a strange thin smile, very broad and knowing. "They look ridiculous to me," he said.
I don't know if I'm barking up the wrong tree in my speculations of Mr. & Mrs. Cuddy's conversation but do they believe that Father Jourdain and his cleric are lovers -- that they are gay?
The Cape Farewell steams out to sea, carrying a serial strangler who says it with flowers and a little song. Behind, on a fogbound London dock, lies his latest lovely victim; and on board, working undercover to identify him before he strikes again, is Inspector Roderick Alleyn. But-with a collection of neurotic, bombastic, shifty, and passionate passengers at one another's throats-how long can he keep the investigation on course?
I found these quotes in the copy of the book I got from the library:
"Reading Ngaio Marsh's stories, one becomes unconscious alike of printed page and the author's technique feels he is dealing with real people".
"In her ironic and witty hands the mystery novel can be civilized literature...with style and atmosphere, humor which is never forced, characters who are fascinating and completely credible".
Let's see if the PIs agree!!!