Reader's Paradise discussion
Monthly Copy Cat Challenge
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Aparna and Arpit: Jan copy cat challenge... Edit: India After Gandhi discussion
Arpit wrote: "Oh, how I wish there were a "Pakistan After Jinnah"!!!"I wish too... only fallacy is Pakistan never existed before Jinnah :P
Arpit wrote: "Gorab wrote: "Bose sir is a whole lot bigger and mysterious than Shastri Ji. There are top secret docum..."Really? I didn't know about it.
I think Govt. did disclose some documents last year, aro..."
Its going to remain a mystery forever with so much conspiracy theories around it. Its like whoever promises to make the documents public, changes mind after reaching that state!
Whether there really are any such documents? Or its a big blow to national integrity? Or whatever reason??
Only speculations.... We'll never know the truth :(
Arpit wrote: "I, too, think forcing Hindi wasn't a good option. Will read the RKN book.We can discuss the issue now. Do you have any opinion on this one? "
A lot of....
1. Oldest language : Hindi for sure is not the most ancient language of India. At least Tamil is much older and almost equal to Sanskrit in age. Or better, the most ancient language used by a large group.
2. Invasions: South India was relatively less affected by all the invasions. Much less affected than North. So the culture is more pristine and not mingled with invaders culture.
3. National Integrity: Considering 1 and 2, why would you try to undermine the language? They say national integrity.... I'd like to repeat a point by RKN. THis is related to the times where on national TV, every evening there used to be a news telecast in Hindi.... even in the Southern India so that people could at least get exposed to Hindi... and hence the national integrity.
RKN's debate: How about broadcasting Tamil news (local news in Tamil langauge) as well in North India. Why that isn't considered national integrity?
Result: With the force feeding, people started hating Hindi because their native language wasn't respected elsewhere. It hurt the sentiments. As a result, the time came when Hindi was being striked off from all banners and visible places!
Talk about national integrity now!
4. Constitution: During the 50's, it was decided Hindi will be the official language after 1965. 15 yrs grace period was given for non-Hindi people to adapt to it. It *could* have worked only with mutual respect of other languages too. Also, there wasn't any strong leader of South whose opposition of these could make any impact in the constitution.
It came at such a point where it could be a separate country altogether! Language being the spearhead among other factors.
So why not a separate country? why try to integrate all these? You asked this earlier. Think about the consequences. I feel it would chalk out very bad for either sides. you think otherwise?
Current scenario: I personally feel South Indian languages liek Tamil are to be considered a national heritage in line with Sanskrit. They should be revered instead of being mocked up like what has been happening. I don't know the root of this mockery? That's the real evil.
And by this, I'm not undermining the importance of other languages. Just took Tamil example because I've known it to be the most ancient among the currently used languages. Please correct me if I'm wrong here.
The argument "Hindi is majority" is very well tackled by this - "Then common crow should be our national bird." :D
Arpit wrote: "I think Indira's successor was Indira herself. She lost the election after emergency and then some other govt. came (remember JP ki adhuri kranti?), but then she won again."No. Thats not succession when you regain power. I meant successor after Indira (irrespective of election results) as someone outside family and not one among her bloodlines.
Have resumed from today.... on chapter 19 part 6.The left right funda is making more sense now. Thanks for your help :)
Heading on to Chapter 20. Think we can cross the 50% mark this month.
Another thought on the "why" of language part. In the North South debate over the official language to be used in constituency, while the North all rooted for Hindi, there was no common factor in South. If Tamil, it will pave way for protests by other language enthusiasts that why not their language?May be the reason how Hindi force feed came into picture. Had there been one common language used across extensively, a different situation would have emerged.
Waiting to hear your enlightenng thoughts on this one :)
Hey!
I'm somewhere in the middle of chap 20.
Don't you sometimes wonder about East Pakistan and West Pakistan situation? How did they even travel between these parts? There was no direct route!! How did they send the army there?!
Gotta read about it.
I'm somewhere in the middle of chap 20.
Don't you sometimes wonder about East Pakistan and West Pakistan situation? How did they even travel between these parts? There was no direct route!! How did they send the army there?!
Gotta read about it.
It all seems very funny now, to read about all those prophecies of India's breakdown. The idea of an united India is so deep rooted within us that we take all the diversity for granted. The diversity that could be a dividing factor, unites us.
Now I can understand the reason for all the trouble in the starting.
And my appreciation for India has increased. To manage it, not an easy task.
Now I can understand the reason for all the trouble in the starting.
And my appreciation for India has increased. To manage it, not an easy task.
Gorab wrote: "Heading on to Chapter 20. Think we can cross the 50% mark this month."
And if we are able to manage this speed, then we can finish it by the end of April :)
And if we are able to manage this speed, then we can finish it by the end of April :)
Not an easy direct route between EP and WP. I think all the armed forces moved through the ocean route. And public was allowed to move across Indian mainland except during war.No idea whether goods trains were allowed or not by India?
Geographically Pak was at a disadvantage in this case!
Arpit wrote: "Gorab wrote: "Heading on to Chapter 20. Think we can cross the 50% mark this month."And if we are able to manage this speed, then we can finish it by the end of April :)"
Amen to that!
Gorab wrote: "Not an easy direct route between EP and WP. I think all the armed forces moved through the ocean route. And public was allowed to move across Indian mainland except during war.
No idea whether good..."
Oh okay!!
This whole Bangladesh freedom war was in our History textbooks, right? I remember reading about it, but in a different way. Now here it's a total different case.
Have you heard about Pak history books? I guess every country teaches its own version of history, never fully unbiased. India is no exception :(
No idea whether good..."
Oh okay!!
This whole Bangladesh freedom war was in our History textbooks, right? I remember reading about it, but in a different way. Now here it's a total different case.
Have you heard about Pak history books? I guess every country teaches its own version of history, never fully unbiased. India is no exception :(
Gorab wrote: "https://www.quora.com/Why-is-it-that-..."
You know what I noticed first- As long as they don't force us to learn Hindi (like what Pt. Nehru attempted to do), I don't see why we should not learn Hindi.
I got panicked. But then this comment relaxed me-
It was not under Pandit Nehru but Lal Bahadur Shastri when Hindi was tried to be imposed all over the nation.
The newspaper South India, THE HINDU itself says:"The then Prime Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, was sensitive to the sentiments of the South; sentiments shared by the North and East as well."
"You can speak Tamil or English and yet be a good Indian, argued Anna. No, answered New Delhi, the only good patriots are those who speak (and write) Hindi. Shastri and his Government stood by the decision to make Hindi official on 26 January. And, in consequence, all hell broke loose."
You know what I noticed first- As long as they don't force us to learn Hindi (like what Pt. Nehru attempted to do), I don't see why we should not learn Hindi.
I got panicked. But then this comment relaxed me-
It was not under Pandit Nehru but Lal Bahadur Shastri when Hindi was tried to be imposed all over the nation.
The newspaper South India, THE HINDU itself says:"The then Prime Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, was sensitive to the sentiments of the South; sentiments shared by the North and East as well."
"You can speak Tamil or English and yet be a good Indian, argued Anna. No, answered New Delhi, the only good patriots are those who speak (and write) Hindi. Shastri and his Government stood by the decision to make Hindi official on 26 January. And, in consequence, all hell broke loose."
But wasn't it Nehru govt who deciced that 15yrs testing period?
Gorab wrote: "The argument "Hindi is majority" is very well tackled by this - "Then common crow should be our national bird." :D"
Umm....it does sound very interesting, but in democracy, "majority" matters!!
Besides, one just can't compare national language with national bird! Language is something that the WHOLE (mind you, full majority) nation needs, so it does need to be approved by larger number of people. The sad thing is that even though Hindi is in majority, only 42% people (mother language+ second language+ variants) speak it. Therefore "non-Hindi alliance" has the majority :P
Umm....it does sound very interesting, but in democracy, "majority" matters!!
Besides, one just can't compare national language with national bird! Language is something that the WHOLE (mind you, full majority) nation needs, so it does need to be approved by larger number of people. The sad thing is that even though Hindi is in majority, only 42% people (mother language+ second language+ variants) speak it. Therefore "non-Hindi alliance" has the majority :P
I started searching for this Hindi and Tamil thing, and now I'm reading about proto-languages, Indo-European languages, lexical similarity and what not!! #Completely_Irrelevant_to_the_current_topic :P
Meanwhile, main subject lay forgotten xD xD
Meanwhile, main subject lay forgotten xD xD
Not to underestimate the fact that Hindi (or Hindustani whatever) connects us with our dear neighbour Pak bhaijaan ;)
Gorab wrote: "Another thought on the "why" of language part. In the North South debate over the official language to be used in constituency, while the North all rooted for Hindi, there was no common factor in S..."
That was the first thought born in my mind when I read your arguments favouring Tamil.
I questioned to myself that why Tamil, why not Telugu, or Bangla, or Malyalam, especially when India has more Telugu and Bangla speakers than the Tamilians? What do you know about them Arpit, I told myself. Maybe the whole South India was rooting for Tamil?
But now you mentioned it, it's clear that all these Dravidian sisters were not working together :|
That was the first thought born in my mind when I read your arguments favouring Tamil.
I questioned to myself that why Tamil, why not Telugu, or Bangla, or Malyalam, especially when India has more Telugu and Bangla speakers than the Tamilians? What do you know about them Arpit, I told myself. Maybe the whole South India was rooting for Tamil?
But now you mentioned it, it's clear that all these Dravidian sisters were not working together :|
I think the book's title is kinda misleading. It's should be "political and diplomatic history of world' biggest democracy" instead of "history of world's biggest democracy".
Because there's no cultural, economic or social history in this book. Ugh.... Gotta stop this nitpicking :/
Because there's no cultural, economic or social history in this book. Ugh.... Gotta stop this nitpicking :/
Arpit wrote: "Have you heard about Pak history books?"Quite a few recent history books on Pak are there. And obviously there cannot be a history book based solely on Pak before partition.
All I remember from my History lessons are Mohanjodaro, Harappa, Indus valley and such things..... I was really *very* poor in history and missed even the chapter titles on invasions of India and the east India company etc. It was a struggle to barely cross the passing marks.
Arpit wrote: "But wasn't it Nehru govt who deciced that 15yrs testing period?"Yes. What could have been a better solution at that point? Even reservations were for an initial period. Learning from History, all the difficult things have to be imposed diplomatically by padding it with a "trial" period!
Arpit wrote: "Gorab wrote: "The argument "Hindi is majority" is very well tackled by this - "Then common crow should be our national bird." :D"Umm....it does sound very interesting, but in democracy, "majority..."
True that! And going by that majority trend, do you know what the majority of people speak currently in England? Dubai? Singapore? :D
All Indian languages. Talk about invasion without invading ;)
Arpit wrote: "I started searching for this Hindi and Tamil thing, and now I'm reading about proto-languages, Indo-European languages, lexical similarity and what not!! #Completely_Irrelevant_to_the_current_topic..."Keep sharing the gems from your learning and explorations. I'll take a crash course from you.
Bhai I think title is apt. Going by your reasoning, there cannot be any other "small" title, unless you include all the Intro in the title subtext :PWriting style : It pretends unbiased as every thing written is backed up by some legit reference. Now it depends which side of the coin he picks diplomatically to back it up with an example ;)
Arpit wrote: "On 21 chap, I guess."No progress over the weekend. Will catch up.
Gorab wrote: "Arpit wrote: "Have you heard about Pak history books?"
Quite a few recent history books on Pak are there. And obviously there cannot be a history book based solely on Pak before partition."
*Face-palm*
No, I meant history text-books of Pak. The ones they use at schools. It is said that they are full of misleading information about Indo-Pak thing!
Quite a few recent history books on Pak are there. And obviously there cannot be a history book based solely on Pak before partition."
*Face-palm*
No, I meant history text-books of Pak. The ones they use at schools. It is said that they are full of misleading information about Indo-Pak thing!
Gorab wrote: "Bhai I think title is apt. Going by your reasoning, there cannot be any other "small" title, unless you include all the Intro in the title subtext :P.."
Lol...Yeah, but he should have covered few cultural moments of that time too!
If nothing then at least the top Bollywood gossip of each year xD
Lol...Yeah, but he should have covered few cultural moments of that time too!
If nothing then at least the top Bollywood gossip of each year xD
Gorab wrote: "do you know what the majority of people speak currently in England? Dubai? Singapore? :D
All Indian languages. Talk about invasion without invading ;) "
*_*
Is it some joke, 'cause my sarcasm-detector is not working properly here ;)
All Indian languages. Talk about invasion without invading ;) "
*_*
Is it some joke, 'cause my sarcasm-detector is not working properly here ;)
Gorab wrote: "All I remember from my History lessons are Mohanjodaro, Harappa, Indus valley and such things..... I was really *very* poor in history and missed even the chapter titles on invasions of India and t..."
Okay, and that completes one zillion! One zillion times you've expressed how poor you were in History :D
I remember a lil of starting (those civilizations) and then a lil bit from Mughal emperor to freedom moment, but have no idea about the kings that ruled between these time-periods!! Oh how I wish I were more attentive in my history classes back then!
Okay, and that completes one zillion! One zillion times you've expressed how poor you were in History :D
I remember a lil of starting (those civilizations) and then a lil bit from Mughal emperor to freedom moment, but have no idea about the kings that ruled between these time-periods!! Oh how I wish I were more attentive in my history classes back then!
Arpit wrote: "*Face-palm*No, I meant history text-books of Pak. The ones they use at schools. It is said that they are full of misleading information about Indo-Pak thing!"
Where did you get this info? I hope not Indian media.
Arpit wrote: "Lol...Yeah, but he should have covered few cultural moments of that time too!If nothing then at least the top Bollywood gossip of each year xD "
Yeah and win Filmfare award alongwith Sahitya Akademi :\
Arpit wrote: "Is it some joke, 'cause my sarcasm-detector is not working properly here ;)"I couldn't find any supportable evidence for this. Some of the friends were discussing this.
Majority (or 2nd majority) of people speak :
Singapore, Malaysia - Tamil
London - Hindi, Punjabi
Mauritius - Bhojpuri! (Can you believe that!), Haryanvi.
Dubai, Doha, Qatar - Malayalam (after Arabic though)
Searched on the internet where I could find evidence for or against this.... Mostly goes against.
Arpit wrote: "Okay, and that completes one zillion! One zillion times you've expressed how poor you were in History :D"Pardon me. I can't recall how many times I would have mentioned this.... bcoz my History is.... *__*
I know about Mauritius. The Indians there are mostly of labour class. I've read few stories about them in my school curriculum.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauri...
London and Canada have a large sikh population, so it could be true. UK also has a very large British-Pakistani population. Accn to Wiki, Indian, Pakistani, and Bangladeshi are 5-6% of total population.
Not sure about other countries!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauri...
London and Canada have a large sikh population, so it could be true. UK also has a very large British-Pakistani population. Accn to Wiki, Indian, Pakistani, and Bangladeshi are 5-6% of total population.
Not sure about other countries!
Have few things to say about Indira Gandhi. Will post them tomorrow after midsems.
I've stopped at the part where Indira Gandhi won people's heart by her extremely well strategic tactics against the trio of China-Pak-USA during the war.
I'll resume from Chapter 21 today. Guess you're already ahead of me .
I guess I'm on chap 22. I'll resume from tomorroe.
Proper response soon :)
Proper response soon :)
Arpit wrote: "Have few things to say about Indira Gandhi. Will post them tomorrow after midsems."
Forgot what I was talking about @_@
Forgot what I was talking about @_@
Gorab wrote: "I've stopped at the part where Indira Gandhi won people's heart by her extremely well strategic tactics against the trio of China-Pak-USA during the war."
And I've just completed the part where she's being compared to a dictator. A rare female dictator :P
And I've just completed the part where she's being compared to a dictator. A rare female dictator :P
Did you notice that the author was mostly quoting The Indian Express. Sometimes TOI, but mostly IE. Any thoughts?
When The Hindu was older, launched in late 19th century.
Reader's Paradise
Books mentioned in this topic
The World Is Flat: A Brief History of the Twenty-first Century (other topics)Salt and Sawdust (other topics)
Cracking India (other topics)
Cracking India (other topics)
India After Gandhi: The History of the World's Largest Democracy (other topics)
Regarding successor of Nehru ji. I ..."
I think Indira's successor was Indira herself. She lost the election after emergency and then some other govt. came (remember JP ki adhuri kranti?), but then she won again.