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The Three-Body Problem
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TTBP: January 2017 Book Pick: The Three-Body Problem by Liu Cixin
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Bruce wrote: "Joseph wrote: "...the most alien parts were the opening scenes set during the Cultural Revolution."Those were the parts I liked the best."
Likewise. It was interesting to read a story that was coming from such a different baseline than what we're used to.
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Tassie Dave, S&L Historian
(last edited Jan 03, 2017 04:12PM)
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It wouldn't take them that long to adapt each version.
Having to go away from the page you are on, to another page and back, is just an old fashioned way of doing things in a digital edition.
The Kindle version could have used the note feature. I can attach a note anywhere in the book that will open a note on the same page.
iBooks does it really well. I have a really nice annotated version of Frankenstein that has pop-up notes on almost every page.
and It's free (Beneath the Ink Edition)
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/fran...
Footnotes are all over the Discworld books. Navigating them was infuriating. It was next to impossible to get back in many instances. Tap the link, go to the previous page instead of back to the book. Scroll back, tap again, same thing. Over and over again.I got to the point where I would note my location in the book, then click the footnote, then manually go back to where I had been. Since the footnotes are in the back of the book, going there makes "furthest page read" that page, so that feature is useless for getting back.
John (Taloni) wrote: "Footnotes are all over the Discworld books. Navigating them was infuriating. It was next to impossible to get back in many instances. Tap the link, go to the previous page instead of back to the bo..."what device? Works perfectly on my first edition Nook. Also on Google ebook reader - whatever it's called - on the cell phone.
^ Both Kindle and Kindle app on my iPad mini.
On my Kindle the footnotes loaded on the page just fine. No problems there.
Clearly, there is a conspiracy....or perhaps the library I checked them out of had older formats.
Free association moment: How cool is it that my library had the ENTIRE Discworld collection? After reading Wyrd Sisters here I was off and running. All the Dresden Files books too!
Brendan wrote: "On my Kindle the footnotes loaded on the page just fine. No problems there."Yes, they just pop up on the bottom half of the screen on my Kindle (Paperwhite) too, so I was a bit puzzled by some of the discussion here. Recent(ish) updates to the iOS app make returning to the right page a lot more reliable these days too - although the furthest-read page thing could still be a problem I guess.
John (Taloni) wrote: "Clearly, there is a conspiracy....or perhaps the library I checked them out of had older formats.
Free association moment: How cool is it that my library had the ENTIRE Discworld collection? Aft..."
That's pretty awesome. I bought them all over two years because B&N has (had?) a Buy 2 get 1 free sale around December.
Footnotes work fine on my Kindle Paperwhite too. Granted, the "popup" fills the whole screen, but there's an X in the corner to close it and no back-and-forth navigation or "latest page read" mess-ups.
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Tassie Dave, S&L Historian
(last edited Jan 04, 2017 10:58AM)
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I have the Kindle app on an iPad.
Which apart from the very minor inconvenience with handling footnotes, is a fantastic reading experience.
I have had the same problems John mentions on other random Kindle titles as well. They may even have been Discworld books as well. Sometimes the link back goes to the wrong page, or worse, goes nowhere and is a dead link.
Still a minor gripe. Even with paper books, losing your page while flipping to the notes and appendices happened often. ;-)
First World problems :-)
In the past I have noticed the Kindle being hit or miss with handling footnotes, but not so much anymore. I get a popup that fills the screen with an X in the corner like Tobias. Even if it took me to the footnote instead of a popup, when you swipe up from the bottom on a Paperwhite, it will have a Loc # and an arrow. If you touch that, it should take you back to your previous location.
After reading a bit further in the book I noticed that the footnotes don't fill the entire screen unless they're slightly long, more than a paragraph or so; short footnotes just pop up at the bottom of the screen.Yeah, I'm sure some books implement footnotes as links that point to a footnote section at the end of the book. Presumably that was the only way to do it before, but Amazon has since implemented the method used in TTBP, and most new (or fixed) books probably do it like this now. That's my guess anyway.
Just finished TTBP and I enjoyed it quite a lot. I can see how some people would feel as though the characters are flat and unrelatable, but I feel that their motivations were conveyed well even if I could not identify with them myself. I personally really enjoyed the historical elements like many have echoed. I'm wondering if the scientific concepts could be more appreciated by people with a lot of science background as I felt that a lot of it went over my head even though I really enjoyed the references.
I enjoyed it. The historical sections were well done, and depictions of scientists trying to do research in the face of political opposition is... relatable to the present day.I really enjoyed the way he set up the mystery, though with these kind of novels the payoff is never quite satisfying enough.
The gaming part seems totally weak. Where is the actual game? It seemed more like the player logs on and just listens to the characters, there didn't seem to be any player interaction.
AndrewP wrote: "The gaming part seems totally weak. Where is the actual game? It seemed more like the player logs on and just listens to the characters, there didn't seem to be any player interaction."Yeah, that was my feeling also. I enjoyed the historical parts and the sci-fi parts, but the gaming parts not so much.
I should probably add that I think the gaming parts did a good job of fleshing out the entire three-body problem. Maybe a creative way of doing an info dump.
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Tassie Dave, S&L Historian
(last edited Jan 09, 2017 07:49PM)
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Agreed. It is the author showing (view spoiler)
He could have had an astronomer or astrophysicist explain it, but this was a cooler and easier to digest way of doing it.
The Three Body Problem is complicated enough as it is, without having it presented as a lecture.
(view spoiler)
AndrewP wrote: "The gaming part seems totally weak. Where is the actual game? It seemed more like the player logs on and just listens to the characters, there didn't seem to be any player interaction."No player interaction? The player could command 30 million people at one point! ;)
The game isn't really trying to be a "game" game in the first place. It's not trying to entertain the users, it's trying to tell them a story. It's really more in the walking simulator game genre like Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, Firewatch, or Gone Home.
Just finished reading this one.My wife and I started it together on Audio book as we were traveling. She had difficulty following the story line and lost interest pretty quickly. I found the beginning a bit hard to follow, but was managing and wanted to get through the entire book since it was on the S&L January list.
I really started getting into the story a little over 3/4 of the way through. However, I do not believe I would have voted for it to win the Hugo.
While I agree with what other's have said concerning Luke Daniels, I still think he's a great narrator and it could have been much worse. However, I am concerned that he does not narrate the next two books in the series. Does anyone know if there are plans for Luke Daniels to narrate the next two at some point?
TTBP is one of my all time favorites. I do have a soft spot for SF stories with a connection to historical events and the setting during the Cultural Revolution was both fresh and fascinating. It's part of what made this book great in my opinion.I don't mind info dumps but I've never seen them implemented so well into the story as with the game in this book, as already mentioned by Bruce. And there are more examples. Other authors should take note!
I can agree with characters being a bit flat sometimes but I forgive that since the author manages to create a number of interesting characters spanning generations, and you feel their hardship, understand their personal choices and fits them into a hard SF story of epic proportions, all in one book.
TTBP reminds me of Cryptonomicon due to its alternate history spanning generations and nerdy info dumps. Although TTBP is decidedly more SF.
Another tip for those who want history woven into their SF experience is Connie Willis's Oxford Time Travel novels. I can't recommend them enough!
I don't usually read much hard sci-fi. Quite honestly I'm more of a Dr. Who kinda girl. I was intimidated at the thought of reading TTBP, but found myself lost in the narrative almost from the start. The premise of TTBP sounds simple enough. Contact has been made with an alien culture, but the details of said contact are left mostly hidden until the final pages. There were some surprises involved, and set up for the next installments. Some reviewers found the historical background included in the opening chapters was a bit too in-depth, but I appreciated the story being set outside of the west, and the honest critique of Chinese culture from a Chinese author. I don't have a science background, so many of the descriptions of quantum physics were beyond me. It seemed believable enough; however, if future books have this level of detail I might be skimming those passages. Another common complaint in other reviews is that the VR game isn't much of a game at all. Well yes, if your idea of a game is a first-person shooter, this game would fall short. I am not a gamer, but it seemed to me to be an otherworldly version of the Oregon Trail, but instead of dying of dysentery, you burned to death, or imploded. Fun stuff right? Plus it provides the background to truly understand the scope of the three body problem.
I think the biggest complaint is the flatness of some of the characters. When Ye Wenji is introduced in the first chapters, she witnesses her father's death ala Arya Stark. I wondered if she would be as crazy awesome as Arya, but she comes across as half dead, and later just sad. Overall there seems to be a lack of love and human empathy in the story. Maybe this is just a feature of hard sci-fi, or maybe something got lost in translation. I suppose if I really want to read something touchy-feely, I'll need to switch genres.
Looking forward to the next two volumes in the series. I'd recommend this book to anyone looking for a more adult version of Ender's Game.
Ivy wrote: "I think the biggest complaint is the flatness of some of the characters. When Ye Wenji is introduced in the first chapters, she witnesses her father's death ala Arya Stark. I wondered if she would be as crazy awesome as Arya, but she comes across as half dead, and later just sad. Overall there seems to be a lack of love and human empathy in the story. Maybe this is just a feature of hard sci-fi, or maybe something got lost in translation. I suppose if I really want to read something touchy-feely, I'll need to switch genres."I think in this instance Liu is talking about how one person's ennui can adversely affect entire groups of people, which is actually quite a big problem in China this century. The suicide rate of women in China is astoundingly high. Between 26% and 28% of all annual suicides on the entire planet are committed by Chinese women. Just in this century so many have killed themselves that it would literally depopulate Chicago, which has 2.7 million people in it.
Ye being emotionally vacant informs her later decision that alters the entire world. I suspect Liu is actually talking about what's currently happening in China, which is what quite a lot of SF does.
The game sections were my favorite. No, it wasn't a "game" in the traditional sense, it was more of a propaganda tool. The alien nature of it and the "this doesn't really seem like a game" was the point, as the game was essentially designed by an alien mind. That "other"-ness really came through in these sections and contrasted well with the behavior of the humans: the trisolars are in a horrifying environment and unified in their purpose. The flag-based computer could never be emulated by humans. Humanity is in a paradise but continuously creates their own hellish situations.
The game is just fine. I would certainly try it. It's a physics sandbox where you can try your ideas and possibly solve the problem. Not that different from Kerbal Space Program or other crafting & survival games.
Ivy wrote: "I think the biggest complaint is the flatness of some of the characters. When Ye Wenji is introduced in the first chapters, she witnesses her father's death ala Arya Stark. I wondered if she would be as crazy awesome as Arya, but she comes across as half dead, and later just sad. Overall there seems to be a lack of love and human empathy in the story. Maybe this is just a feature of hard sci-fi, or maybe something got lost in translation. I suppose if I really want to read something touchy-feely, I'll need to switch genres."I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree about your assessment of Ye. I actually felt she was very well rounded, and I mean, she went through a lot of crap in her life. I don't blame her for being sad and lacking human empathy. Her father was killed, she was arrested for his crimes, she was essentially forced to spend her days at Red Coast (albeit it was her decision). I also found myself relating to her negative feeling towards humans, as you said, the lack of love and empathy. I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling like the earth would be better off without humans around to destroy it.
Also, if you're not into the touchy feely stuff, you might not like some parts of the sequel. :-P
Am I the only person who found the whole haptic suit/game part reminiscent of Ready Player One (Although considering the release dates, Ready Player one is reminiscent of this)?
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I said the same thing earlier in this same thread (Message 47) in answer to another comparison.
Tassie Dave wrote: "Bruce wrote: "The gaming part of it might compare with Ender's Game?"
I was thinking it was like "Ready Player One"
Except for Physics nerds instead of 80's Pop Culture Nerds."
I'm just over half way through. I'm pretty sure this is my first (somewhat) hard sci-fi and I'm totally surprised at how accessible and understanding the scientific parts are! I'm rather poor at science and maths so the fact I can read this book and follow along without a problem is an accomplishment itself for the book I think xD
I loved this series. It had fresh ideas and a great execution. As for "Did this ruin SF for you, what could compare?"
Gene Wolfe - The Book of the New Sun has yet to be dethroned in my hall of great books.
I'm not sure if someone else has mentioned this, but President Obama talked about reading the trilogy in a recent New York Times interview. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/16/bo...
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/16/bo......"
There is a thread about it here:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Trike wrote: "Ivy wrote: "I think the biggest complaint is the flatness of some of the characters. When Ye Wenji is introduced in the first chapters, she witnesses her father's death ala Arya Stark. I wondered i..."Thank you for providing this insight. I now feel like my comment was insensitive, and that wasn't my intent, but it was certainly ill-informed. I didn't read enough into her character, and what you said really helps me appreciate how masterfully the history and sci-fi are woven together.
Trike - thanks for the comment on Chinese women and the suicide rate. I think this is one of the things that's hardest to get in fiction from other places, esp places that we don't know a lot about - we miss commentary on social and other issues that, if we knew the setting, we'd get almost automatically. Like Ivy, the flatness of Ye was a con for TTBP to me, but I understand it a bit better now.
I read this book awhile ago, and finished up the trilogy when the last book was released. I loved all three, mainly because of the creativity and amount of ideas! Although I didn't think there was extensive character development, the story really gripped me anyway.I thought the way political figures and people in power acted was well described, and made me think about the world we live in. Humans are not perfect, and in situations of crisis, we are not going to act in an optimal way. However, we are resilient and even after all the missteps, we keep going forward.
About halfway through with this. I got a late start, since there was a waitlist for it at the library.Thoughts so far: interesting ideas in the premise, but the writing here is pretty wooden and uninspired. Maybe doesn't translate well? But I can tell there is still so much more story development to come!
As we wrap this book up I was wondering if anyone else here had played any of the tellings of "A tale in the Desert" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Tale_...While different from the game in the book, it did remind me a lot of it. Mainly it was a massive online cooperative game that could and often did fail to have the players win a telling. I believe I played the first real telling (not the beta) and had a blast learning skills and in the end building pyramids, something I could do on even my 26k modem at the time. Some aspects are a bit like minecraft, but others are completely different.
Anyway, was just curious if it rang a bell with anyone else.
I've never heard of that game, but it sounds kind of amazing!
Someone mentioned in one of these threads that the game mostly resembled "walking simulators" that are all the rage these days, where you basically just explore the world. It's all sandbox with no traditional game elements. Maybe Liu was prescient in that regard, unless these kinds of games were popular in China over a decade ago.
I think, within the context of the story, the game served two primary functions: First and foremost, to determine and filter out potential intellectuals and scientists sympathetic to the plight of the "fictional" people within the game.
And secondly, but just as important, to record data of human attempts to solve the three body planet dilemma without solving the three body problem itself.
I've just finished it and annoyed it ends on a cliffhanger! Now I must start the second one immediately!I have to admit, some of the science (for me cos I know nothing about science really) felt very realistic that sometimes I couldn't continue the book because I was actually scared about the universe and it did give an existential crisis now and again. But I enjoyed it. I still think the opening was actually the strongest and best part but I've enjoyed the whole book.
I am a fan of both historical novels and sci fi so this book worked well for me. I found the interview of the 3 red guard women and what happened to them after the cultural revolution very interesting since the novels I have read about China at that time did not follow up on the aggressors, instead the focus was on the victims and how they did (or did not) survive. I am not sure what the 3 women could have said to make Ye Wenjie more optimistic about the future of mankind - maybe that they regretted what they had done and were trying to make amends by helping the victims of their actions? Instead they seemed to be full of self pity. This conversation appeared to be the turning point for Ye Wenjie's future decisions.
I found this one really hard to get into at first (it might be because I listened to the audiobook while I was doing housework and stuff so my brain wasn't fully engaged) but I'm persistent and hate lemming books no matter how much I'm not into them. It wasn't until the last third or quarter of the book that it really grabbed me and now I really want to read the second one but I have 100,000 other books I need to read first! I really should learn not to start a series if I don't have the time to read the whole series lol.
The Sword and Laser
Books mentioned in this topic
Cryptonomicon (other topics)The Diamond Age: Or, a Young Lady's Illustrated Primer (other topics)
The Three-Body Problem (other topics)
The Dark Forest (other topics)
The Three-Body Problem (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Connie Willis (other topics)Luke Daniels (other topics)
Ken Liu (other topics)
Ken Liu (other topics)
Liu Cixin (other topics)
Those were the parts I liked the best.